[mythtv-users] Aspect ratio (16:9 anamorphic)
I'm not sure whether this belongs here or if I should take it to the developers' list. I have been setting up a VIA EPIA MII with MythTv, using a Hauppauge DVB-T tuner card (receiving UK Freeview DTT), and the EPIA's Svideo output (720x576 PAL) connected to a 16:9 PAL TV. My DisplaySize in xorg.conf is set to 400 225. The channels coming from the DVB-T card are in 16:9 anamorphic format, as I would expect, and display correctly on the TV in Wide mode. The UI, however, seems to assume that pixels are always square, so all text is squashed, and plugins like mythweather (haven't given mythgallery any images to test yet) make no attempt to scale images to display correctly. Changing the DisplaySize option does seem to have an effect on text size, but not on proportions. I can fix some of the text issues by changing to font to a naturally condensed font (like Arial Narrow) but that won't fix graphics. Is there a magic option I have not found yet, or does the UI always assume that pixels are square? If so, then that assumption is never right as long as you are driving a TV at normal PAL or NTSC resolutions - even in 4:3, pixels are not quite square. Richard p.s. I've just subscribed to the list, and I notice that messages from quite a few senders arrive in my inbox without any body text (e.g. any messages from Axel Thimm or Micah Galizia.) I think the common property is that they contain multipart/signed content. Obviously other people are getting the body because they are following up to these messages. Any suggestions? ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Aspect ratio (16:9 anamorphic)
On 05 May 2005 14:08:57 +0100, Richard Garnish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a magic option I have not found yet, or does the UI always assume that pixels are square? If so, then that assumption is never right as long as you are driving a TV at normal PAL or NTSC resolutions - even in 4:3, pixels are not quite square. Unless you are using a widescreen theme (of which there's currently only one) myth bases the UI sizing around an 800x600 screen and then scales from there. If you're using a wide screen theme it bases things on 1280x720 (HDTV 720p) and scales from there. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Aspect ratio (16:9 anamorphic)
On Thu, 2005-05-05 at 15:37, Donavan Stanley wrote: On 05 May 2005 14:08:57 +0100, Richard Garnish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a magic option I have not found yet, or does the UI always assume that pixels are square? If so, then that assumption is never right as long as you are driving a TV at normal PAL or NTSC resolutions - even in 4:3, pixels are not quite square. Unless you are using a widescreen theme (of which there's currently only one) myth bases the UI sizing around an 800x600 screen and then scales from there. If you're using a wide screen theme it bases things on 1280x720 (HDTV 720p) and scales from there. I've just been doing a bit of digging through the source and it seems like the name of the theme (ending in -wide) should affect this, but I do seem to remember that even using the Minimalist-wide theme the text was still all wrongly proportioned when scaled to 720x576. I'm not at home right now to verify this, though. Richard ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Aspect ratio (16:9 anamorphic)
There are two concepts at work here: 1. normal Myth themes are based on 4:3 aspect ratio. As you've seen the -wide themes are based on 16:9 aspect ratio 2. MythTV GUI (Qt toolkit, really) assumes square pixels. You could pre-stretch a theme's images in the opposite direction, but the text will never look right. You can specify separate video modes for GUI vs. video playback; if this works with your video output hardware you could choose a square-pixeled mode for your GUI. -Doug signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Aspect ratio (16:9 anamorphic)
On 5/5/05, Doug Larrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are two concepts at work here: 1. normal Myth themes are based on 4:3 aspect ratio. As you've seen the -wide themes are based on 16:9 aspect ratio 2. MythTV GUI (Qt toolkit, really) assumes square pixels. You could pre-stretch a theme's images in the opposite direction, but the text will never look right. Hmmm, my text looks fine and I'm outputting over s-video to a 16:9 tv with a corresponding 16:9 DisplaySize in the X config. For what it's worth I'm using the MythCenter theme, which afaik is not a designated wide theme. James. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Aspect ratio (16:9 anamorphic)
James Stembridge wrote: On 5/5/05, Doug Larrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are two concepts at work here: 1. normal Myth themes are based on 4:3 aspect ratio. As you've seen the -wide themes are based on 16:9 aspect ratio 2. MythTV GUI (Qt toolkit, really) assumes square pixels. You could pre-stretch a theme's images in the opposite direction, but the text will never look right. Hmmm, my text looks fine and I'm outputting over s-video to a 16:9 tv with a corresponding 16:9 DisplaySize in the X config. For what it's worth I'm using the MythCenter theme, which afaik is not a designated wide theme. But are your pixels square? 720x480 is pretty close to square pixels on a 16:9 set. -Doug signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Aspect ratio (16:9 anamorphic)
On 5/5/05, Doug Larrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But are your pixels square? 720x480 is pretty close to square pixels on a 16:9 set. I wouldn't think so, I'm using 720x576 too. I'll have a closer look tonight. James. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Aspect ratio (16:9 anamorphic)
On 5/5/05, James Stembridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/5/05, Doug Larrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But are your pixels square? 720x480 is pretty close to square pixels on a 16:9 set. I wouldn't think so, I'm using 720x576 too. I'll have a closer look tonight. James. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users What do you mean by saying your pixels are square? The text is blocky in the UI? I'm having issues which I think may be similar to others mentioned in this thread, but not that one. My issues is that since I got my widescreen hd and set my res to 1280x720, the letters in the UI are mostly unreadable (I have pretty good vision and can make them out if i take the time, my GF has no clue what they say). I tried setting the UI to use big font and moved that up to 40, but that's really not doing much. Is this issue related to yours, or should I address this some other way? ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Aspect ratio (16:9 anamorphic)
On Thursday 05 May 2005 13:10, Michael Haan wrote: On 5/5/05, James Stembridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/5/05, Doug Larrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But are your pixels square? 720x480 is pretty close to square pixels on a 16:9 set. I wouldn't think so, I'm using 720x576 too. I'll have a closer look tonight. James. What do you mean by saying your pixels are square? The text is blocky in the UI? He's referring to the actual shape of a pixel on a computer monitor vs. a television. Computer monitors have square (well, really circular) pixels, while TVs have oblong (wider than tall) pixels. So an image that looks like a perfect square on a computer monitor will look 'stretched' (i.e., rectangular) on a television. I'm not sure if a HD television has oblong or 'square' pixels. I'm having issues which I think may be similar to others mentioned in this thread, but not that one. My issues is that since I got my widescreen hd and set my res to 1280x720, the letters in the UI are mostly unreadable (I have pretty good vision and can make them out if i take the time, my GF has no clue what they say). I tried setting the UI to use big font and moved that up to 40, but that's really not doing much. Is this issue related to yours, or should I address this some other way? You probably need to set the DisplaySize in your xorg.conf or XF86Config file. You need to trick X into running in 100dpi mode. Run 'xdpyinfo' and see what it tells you your resolution is; if it's not 100 x 100, then that's your font problem. Once you get that resolved, you may notice that things in the UI look either stretched or squished (depending on your perspective); that's the issue being discussed in this thread, which apparently requires a them designed for a 16:9 screen in order to properly fix. -JAC ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Aspect ratio (16:9 anamorphic)
On Thu, 2005-05-05 at 18:10, Michael Haan wrote: On 5/5/05, James Stembridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/5/05, Doug Larrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But are your pixels square? 720x480 is pretty close to square pixels on a 16:9 set. I wouldn't think so, I'm using 720x576 too. I'll have a closer look tonight. James. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users What do you mean by saying your pixels are square? The text is blocky in the UI? I'm having issues which I think may be similar to others mentioned in this thread, but not that one. My issues is that since I got my widescreen hd and set my res to 1280x720, the letters in the UI are mostly unreadable (I have pretty good vision and can make them out if i take the time, my GF has no clue what they say). I tried setting the UI to use big font and moved that up to 40, but that's really not doing much. Is this issue related to yours, or should I address this some other way? No, that doesn't sound like the same issue at all. What is your DisplaySize setting in your X config? Setting it to 400x225 seems to produce readable size text; setting it to the actual physical size of the display ensures you will be needing an eye test :) By square pixels, what is meant is that a pixel on a TV screen has different height and width, unlike a computer monitor. If you draw a 100x100 box on a 4:3 PAL TV at its native resolution (720x576), the box will appear 6.7% wider than its height. At 16:9 the box will be 42.2% wider than its height. Anything that assumes that the X and Y resolution is the same will not display correctly on a standard definition TV, whether you are looking at PAL or NTSC, 4:3 or 16:9. For 4:3 the error is marginal, but it's still wrong. For 16:9 (which is still using a resolution of 720x576 but stretching it to fit the wide screen) objects will appear in completely the wrong shape - text will be super-fat, circles will be eliptical, etc. This is my problem - while the signal from the tuner displays correctly, all on-screen text and graphics are wrong. Something else I've only just thought of - when watching a 4:3 broadcast, the OSD (e.g. the channel browser) displays in 4:3 mode. This is the only time the text looks normal (although I suppose, for the reasons above, it is still wrong by 6%. I'm a perfectionist like that.) Richard ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Aspect ratio (16:9 anamorphic)
On Thu, 2005-05-05 at 18:40, Joseph A. Caputo wrote: On Thursday 05 May 2005 13:10, Michael Haan wrote: On 5/5/05, James Stembridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/5/05, Doug Larrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But are your pixels square? 720x480 is pretty close to square pixels on a 16:9 set. I wouldn't think so, I'm using 720x576 too. I'll have a closer look tonight. James. What do you mean by saying your pixels are square? The text is blocky in the UI? He's referring to the actual shape of a pixel on a computer monitor vs. a television. Computer monitors have square (well, really circular) pixels, while TVs have oblong (wider than tall) pixels. So an image that looks like a perfect square on a computer monitor will look 'stretched' (i.e., rectangular) on a television. I'm not sure if a HD television has oblong or 'square' pixels. Thankfully, true HD has square pixels :) Do the maths to check: 4/3=1., 16/9=1. 1280/720=1. 1920/1080=1. So if you are driving a 16:9 display at 1280x720, it should display everything in the right shape if the software assumes square pixels. Just for comparison, the SD resolutions: 720/576=1.25 (differs from 4/3 by 6%) 720/486=1.4815 (differs in the other direction by 11%) Richard ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Aspect ratio (16:9 anamorphic)
On 5/5/05, Doug Larrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But are your pixels square? 720x480 is pretty close to square pixels on a 16:9 set. Ok, you're quite right. The DisplaySize doesn't affect the font rendering in anyway, I guess I just took the stretched fonts as how they were meant to look. James. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Aspect ratio (16:9 anamorphic)
On 5/5/05, James Stembridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/5/05, Doug Larrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But are your pixels square? 720x480 is pretty close to square pixels on a 16:9 set. Ok, you're quite right. The DisplaySize doesn't affect the font rendering in anyway, I guess I just took the stretched fonts as how they were meant to look. What DOES affect the font rendering (as well as the rest of the GUI) is the dpi of your display. Myth is designed to be run at 100dpi. Anything other than that will result in an out of whack GUI. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Aspect ratio (16:9 anamorphic)
Hmmm, on my box, the MythTv menus were all dreadful looking until I added a DisplaySize line to my xorg.conf. It was usable on a panel, but on my TV the menus were completely unreadable due to being too small. Add the DisplaySize and it looks great. Even the OSD is useable (just) on a TV, though it changes size depending on whether I'm in 720 or 1080.On 5/5/05, Donavan Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:On 5/5/05, James Stembridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/5/05, Doug Larrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But are your pixels square?720x480 is pretty close to square pixels on a 16:9 set. Ok, you're quite right. The DisplaySize doesn't affect the font rendering in anyway, I guess I just took the stretched fonts as how they were meant to look.What DOES affect the font rendering (as well as the rest of the GUI) is the dpi of your display.Myth is designed to be run at 100dpi.Anything other than that will result in an out of whack GUI.___mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.orghttp://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
