Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
Hamish Moffatt wrote: On Sat, Sep 10, 2005 at 10:22:47PM +1000, ffrr wrote: Yes. There are indeed DVB cards that also include svideo in, but they have all the extra circuitry for analog video capture, and using them in Not really; many of the DVB cards use BT878 or CX2388x chips as the PCI interface, which give them analog video capture for free. As indeed mine has (it's a BT878), but they leave off the connecting circuitry and input hardware to save money on a budget card. However they don't include analog tuners, so only svideo/composite capture is possible. And for some cards the Linux dvb drivers does not support analog capture. I see, that's a problem then. Maybe not worth trying to enable the analog inputs on mine then. Better off with a cheap analog card that includes the tuner as well, and use a tried and true driver setup. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On Sat, Sep 10, 2005 at 10:22:47PM +1000, ffrr wrote: > Yes. There are indeed DVB cards that also include svideo in, but they > have all the extra circuitry for analog video capture, and using them in Not really; many of the DVB cards use BT878 or CX2388x chips as the PCI interface, which give them analog video capture for free. However they don't include analog tuners, so only svideo/composite capture is possible. And for some cards the Linux dvb drivers does not support analog capture. > that mode, the cpu will be taxed, just as for other analog cards. True. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
a solution for people who are having problems with JFS partitions not mounting after an unclean shutdown should change entries in /etc/fstab to check the FS at boot, this normally solved the problem. On 9/9/05, Michael Segulja <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Asher Schaffer wrote: > On 9/9/05, Stef Coene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi, > > Currently, I have a 70 GB partition formatted as ext3. It's a bit slow when > deleting big files so I want to reformat it. But what's the best choice? > XFS is good, but what's the file system check speed? Running fsck on my ext3 > file system takes forever... > > > Stef > > I have heard of problems with XFS with any power outages, bad > shutdowns, etc. I use JFS and have found it very fast (excellent > large file deletes). I'm curious to other people's opinion of it, > doesn't seem to get as much mention here as XFS or Reiser. > > > I have trouble with JFS on my recording partition any time the computer is > rebooted uncleanly. I have lots of problems with the kids hitting the reset > button because they think it's fun! :-) When the system comes back up, my > JFS partitions don't mount. I have to manually run jfs_fsck on them and > then mount them manually or reboot. If I do a clean shutdown it's fine. I'm > wondering if anybody else is having this problem? I'm running Fedora Core > 3. > > The biggest issue with this is it happening when I don't know about it, and > a scheduled recording starts. It records to the root patition since my > video partition isn't mounted, and runs out of space real fast and then > crashes the OS!! > > Anyway, just wanted to put in my experience with JFS. Other than that it > seems very good and very fast on deletes to me as well. > > > Michael Segulja > LMD Computing Solutions, Inc. > (281) 376-8181 | Office. > (281) 300-8285 | Mobile > (281) 576-7230 | Fax > http://www.lmdcs.com > > | > | To mess up a Linux box, you need to work at it; > | to mess up your Windows box, you just need to work on it. > | - Scott Granneman, Security Focus > | > > > > > > ___ > mythtv-users mailing list > mythtv-users@mythtv.org > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users > > > ___ > mythtv-users mailing list > mythtv-users@mythtv.org > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users > > > ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
Blake wrote: On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 03:15:55 -0700, Rudy Zijlstra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: They typically do not include an S-Video or any analog-in connector, as these cards contain no HW for analog to any form of digital translation (be that raw capture or MPEG encoding). The signal they receive is already MPEG-(2 or 4). Glad you said that. I think I had gotten confused again. Yes. There are indeed DVB cards that also include svideo in, but they have all the extra circuitry for analog video capture, and using them in that mode, the cpu will be taxed, just as for other analog cards. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 03:15:55 -0700, Rudy Zijlstra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: They typically do not include an S-Video or any analog-in connector, as these cards contain no HW for analog to any form of digital translation (be that raw capture or MPEG encoding). The signal they receive is already MPEG-(2 or 4). Glad you said that. I think I had gotten confused again. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
Blake wrote: On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 00:39:48 -0700, ffrr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I can't seem to find this abbreviation: DVB. Digital Video Board? Yes I think so, there's 3 types DVB-T DVB-S DVB-C for terrestrial (free to air), satellite, and cable resp. terrestrial =/ free to air (FTA). In many countries (Italy comes to mind as an example) CAS is used on DVB-T for many channels. OK, according to Wikipedia, it's "Digital Video Broadcasting". The types are right. I'm assuming I can get any as long as it's got the S-Video in (though I suppose a satellite card would be pointless as there doesn't appear to be satellite in my future) . They typically do not include an S-Video or any analog-in connector, as these cards contain no HW for analog to any form of digital translation (be that raw capture or MPEG encoding). The signal they receive is already MPEG-(2 or 4). ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 00:39:48 -0700, ffrr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I can't seem to find this abbreviation: DVB. Digital Video Board? Yes I think so, there's 3 types DVB-T DVB-S DVB-C for terrestrial (free to air), satellite, and cable resp. OK, according to Wikipedia, it's "Digital Video Broadcasting". The types are right. I'm assuming I can get any as long as it's got the S-Video in (though I suppose a satellite card would be pointless as there doesn't appear to be satellite in my future). ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
Blake wrote: On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 00:13:57 -0700, ffrr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: So, the whole "you need X resources for each stream" doesn't really apply to HDTV, then. HDTV or PVR-x50 or any other hardware encoding card. or any DVB card, even when doing SD (not just HD). Makes life easy for the cpu :-) I can't seem to find this abbreviation: DVB. Digital Video Board? Yes I think so, there's 3 types DVB-T DVB-S DVB-C for terrestrial (free to air), satellite, and cable resp. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 00:13:57 -0700, ffrr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: So, the whole "you need X resources for each stream" doesn't really apply to HDTV, then. HDTV or PVR-x50 or any other hardware encoding card. or any DVB card, even when doing SD (not just HD). Makes life easy for the cpu :-) I can't seem to find this abbreviation: DVB. Digital Video Board? ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
Brian J. Murrell wrote: On Fri, 2005-09-09 at 15:35 -0700, Blake wrote: I didnt know HD came in as MPG! Yep. AFAIK anyway. Yep, digital TV Transport Stream is transmitted that way,. So, the whole "you need X resources for each stream" doesn't really apply to HDTV, then. HDTV or PVR-x50 or any other hardware encoding card. or any DVB card, even when doing SD (not just HD). Makes life easy for the cpu :-) ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
I used to run XFS and was getting FS corruptions from time to time, which required mounting read-only and running fsck. It was especially a lot of fun if root partition got corrupted. Why did I have the corruptions? Well, I have quite a few PCs at home so having UPS for all of them is not practical, also I want to figure out better FS for use at work, so pulling a plug sometimes was intentional ;-) I installed ReiserFS3 on all my PCs and so far never had a problem. I don't really care if it is slower on deleting huge files: if I have time to watch a 2 GB show, I guess I can find couple of seconds to delete it. On the other end, fixing FS errors after crash defeats the whole purpose of running Linux: I want my system rock solid and fixing FS errors is not an option for me. On Friday 09 September 2005 10:56 am, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Fri, Sep 09, 2005 at 09:49:13AM -0500, Mike Daugird wrote: > > Why do you run fsck so much? Keep the machine up 24/7, linux is a stable > > OS and doesn't need to reboot everyday to keep running. > > Clean reboots do not beget fscking. If someone is running fsck all > the time, it's due to power issues, flaky hardware, children who > think it's fun to press the reset button, etc. > > Or maybe they only end up fscking once or twice a year, but prefer > that it not take forever to complete. Power outages have a tendency > to strike just before your favorite show on days when you're not > home, after all... ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On 9/10/05, Brian McEntire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Someone else mentioned lockups as a fact of life for developers, but > sometimes there is another way. Kernel developers, and people who test code > that crashes a lot sometimes use VMware or User Mode Linux (kinda a poor > man's VMware) which allows running one or more Linux OSs on top of the > real/host Linux OS. These can be used for testing/modeling networks (emulate > a whole network on one computer) but they are also very good for crash prone > development and testing. At least you don't have to wait for the whole PC to > reboot, go through BIOS checks, etc., just fire up another virtual instance > after a crash. Don't know if this would work for Myth development, but > figured I'd mention it. The best way to do this is probably with Xen. It's free, and you can assign PCI devices to specific virtual machines. Then you could NFS mount your filesystems, and not have to worry about fsck! -- Chris Edwards http://www.chris-edwards.org/ ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On 9/9/05, Michael Segulja <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I think you're missing the point I made in my email regarding kids &reset buttons. The issue isn't the kids resetting the computer. Theissue is that when the system is not shut down cleanly, my JFSfilesystems won't mount automatically until I run jfs_fsck on them manually. It only takes about 5 seconds to run and then mount them, butit's a pain when it happens and I don't know about it because shows getrecorded to the wrong place. It only takes 5 seconds if nothing the the FS was actually corrupted. Otherwise, it will take a while. My 2 cents on JFS had to deal with this issue, not the fact that afilesystem should be perfect no matter what happens to the PC. I'm curious to see if anybody else has seen this behavior, because if not, Iprobably just have a bad install or something. Cool enough, someone else can answer. I don't let that happen to my file systems. As a workaround, you could code a tiny script that automatically jfs_fsck's your file systems at boot, if they are not mounted, and then mounts them. > How about opening up the case and disconnecting the reset switch from> the Mobo? >Disconnecting the reset button also means I can't reset the PC when Ineed to in the odd times the whole system freezes, I do still have toturn it on and off sometimes. :-) Hrm... I have linux boxes with 280+ days up time. Granted, they are not running Myth, but usually apps don't crash the OS. Myth may be another thing since it is still young. One thing that could replace a reset button if you wanted is a 'watchdog' ... these come in software and hardware. The hardware is more reliable but the software works pretty well most of the time too. Basically they run in the background and if they see the system become unresponsive, they reboot it. You could also enable the "Magic SysRq Key" in your kernel. Then you can hit a powerful key combination to reboot even after a crash. Just figured I'd throw some options out there... Someone else mentioned lockups as a fact of life for developers, but sometimes there is another way. Kernel developers, and people who test code that crashes a lot sometimes use VMware or User Mode Linux (kinda a poor man's VMware) which allows running one or more Linux OSs on top of the real/host Linux OS. These can be used for testing/modeling networks (emulate a whole network on one computer) but they are also very good for crash prone development and testing. At least you don't have to wait for the whole PC to reboot, go through BIOS checks, etc., just fire up another virtual instance after a crash. Don't know if this would work for Myth development, but figured I'd mention it. Oh yeah, and a UPS connected to my HTPC that is in my living roomconnected to my TV isn't the most attractive thing in the world. WAF factor way down there Depends on the wife I guess :) ... my wife thinks its cool that we can watch TV uninterrupted when the power blinks out for a few minutes. Yes I have a UPS in the living room. My particular model isn't much uglier than the rest of the A/V gear. I'm thinking of making a diskless front end via NFS, mounting all the file systems read-only. In that case, I will be able to reset until the cows come home, or just press the power button when I'm done watching TV and never worry about file system corruption. Good luck with the JFS stuff. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
Brian McEntire wrote: You guys with the kids and the reset buttons are giving me high blood pressure!! ;-) NO FILE SYSTEM is intended to sustain regular unclean shutdowns. If you get through a few unclean shutdowns, count yourself lucky, but don't rely on it. I think you're missing the point I made in my email regarding kids & reset buttons. The issue isn't the kids resetting the computer. The issue is that when the system is not shut down cleanly, my JFS filesystems won't mount automatically until I run jfs_fsck on them manually. It only takes about 5 seconds to run and then mount them, but it's a pain when it happens and I don't know about it because shows get recorded to the wrong place. My 2 cents on JFS had to deal with this issue, not the fact that a filesystem should be perfect no matter what happens to the PC. I'm curious to see if anybody else has seen this behavior, because if not, I probably just have a bad install or something. How about opening up the case and disconnecting the reset switch from the Mobo? Disconnecting the reset button also means I can't reset the PC when I need to in the odd times the whole system freezes, I do still have to turn it on and off sometimes. :-) You could do the same for the power button. Then the kids can press all they want. Oh yeah, buy a UPS ;-) Oh yeah, and a UPS connected to my HTPC that is in my living room connected to my TV isn't the most attractive thing in the world. WAF factor way down there And to add a comment from another post, wouldn't it be nice if we all had a house big enough for a dedicated server room with a lock on the door. :-) That would definitely make at least one of my dreams come true!! Thanks, Michael ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:39:19 -0700, Brian J. Murrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: So the people who are having trouble with single streams--it's because they're having to encode on the fly... Maybe. Not sure to which you refer. Just some stuff read on the list. (And possibly misunderstood.) So, the whole "you need X resources for each stream" doesn't really apply to HDTV, then. HDTV or PVR-x50 or any other hardware encoding card. Int'resting. Wait, HDTV OTA, that is. If I hook up via S-Video (or composite or whatever) to get HD off my cable box...? No, then you are encoding on the fly. If with a PVR-x50 or other hardware encoder, no sweat. In software, you are sweating. All right, I'm getting my box today and we'll see if I genuinely grasp this. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On Fri, 2005-09-09 at 15:35 -0700, Blake wrote: > > I didnt know HD came in as MPG! Yep. AFAIK anyway. > So the people who are having trouble with single streams--it's because > they're having to encode on the fly... Maybe. Not sure to which you refer. > So, the whole "you need X resources for each stream" doesn't really apply > to HDTV, then. HDTV or PVR-x50 or any other hardware encoding card. > Int'resting. Wait, HDTV OTA, that is. If I hook up via > S-Video (or composite or whatever) to get HD off my cable box...? No, then you are encoding on the fly. If with a PVR-x50 or other hardware encoder, no sweat. In software, you are sweating. b. -- My other computer is your Microsoft Windows server. Brian J. Murrell signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
If you hook up via S-Video or Composite off of you cable box then that is not HD ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:27:39 -0700, Brian J. Murrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It's digital -- already encoded. It's really nothing more than just 3-4 instances of: $ cat < /dev/hdtv_device >file.mpg I didnt know HD came in as MPG! So the people who are having trouble with single streams--it's because they're having to encode on the fly... in parallel. Even if one stream was 5Mb/s, that is only 640KB/s. Not really that intensive. Even my single 80G ATA drive gets ~15MB/s ...or they have really seirous I/O problems. So, the whole "you need X resources for each stream" doesn't really apply to HDTV, then. Int'resting. Wait, HDTV OTA, that is. If I hook up via S-Video (or composite or whatever) to get HD off my cable box...? ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On Fri, Sep 09, 2005 at 02:56:09PM -0700, Blake wrote: > Just--wow. And you managed this on an AMD 2500? Yes, this was over 2 years ago though. Myth performed about 20% faster back then. HD takes almost nothing to record (about 7% CPU for 4 HD streams, including software raid 0). Playback would put the CPU near 100% if I had de-interlacing going on a 1080i stream. Myth's playback has received lots of good code to make video more smooth, handle seeking, time stretching and other features. This did have the result of needing more horsepower to watch the same video clip. Mplayer and MythTV had the near CPU usage to view a stream -- You can easily see this is no longer true. --Brandon ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On Fri, 2005-09-09 at 14:56 -0700, Blake wrote: > On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 14:42:10 -0700, Brandon Beattie > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > In the SLC Utah area there are 11 HDTV channels, and 18 unique > > programs on at once, broadcasted free OTA. The PBS channels have 8 > > unique broadcasts alone and I watch quite a bit of PBS. Monday's, > > Tuesday, Thursdays and Sundays I'm often recording 3-4 shows at once. > > Just--wow. And you managed this on an AMD 2500? It's digital -- already encoded. It's really nothing more than just 3-4 instances of: $ cat < /dev/hdtv_device >file.mpg in parallel. Even if one stream was 5Mb/s, that is only 640KB/s. Not really that intensive. Even my single 80G ATA drive gets ~15MB/s b. -- My other computer is your Microsoft Windows server. Brian J. Murrell signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 14:42:10 -0700, Brandon Beattie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In the SLC Utah area there are 11 HDTV channels, and 18 unique programs on at once, broadcasted free OTA. The PBS channels have 8 unique broadcasts alone and I watch quite a bit of PBS. Monday's, Tuesday, Thursdays and Sundays I'm often recording 3-4 shows at once. Just--wow. And you managed this on an AMD 2500? ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On Fri, Sep 09, 2005 at 02:12:23PM -0700, Blake wrote: > Whoa. Recording 4 HD shows and watching another? Where are you that there > are 5 worthwhile HD shows being broadcast at once? In the SLC Utah area there are 11 HDTV channels, and 18 unique programs on at once, broadcasted free OTA. The PBS channels have 8 unique broadcasts alone and I watch quite a bit of PBS. Monday's, Tuesday, Thursdays and Sundays I'm often recording 3-4 shows at once. I've also sat down twice in the last year to "watch live tv" and it was because someone else wanted to. I have the habit of waiting until 30 minutes into a show before I go to watch it. Between skipping some commercials and time stretching I watch parts of about 80 recorded hours of TV in 5-7 hours a week, and ignore about another 50 hours that's for others in the house. --Brandon ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 08:43:51 -0700, Brandon Beattie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I found problems with ext2, ext3, and reiser 3 when recording 4 HD shows and watching another at the same time (Very common for me to be doing). Whoa. Recording 4 HD shows and watching another? Where are you that there are 5 worthwhile HD shows being broadcast at once? ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On Fri, Sep 09, 2005 at 12:51:09PM -0400, Brian McEntire wrote: > You guys with the kids and the reset buttons are giving me high blood > pressure!! ;-) NO FILE SYSTEM is intended to sustain regular unclean > shutdowns. If you get through a few unclean shutdowns, count yourself lucky, > but don't rely on it. No kids here, it is/was purely development reasons for all the kernel panics and hard locks. Someone's got to test things out before they get released. The pcHDTV cards that I had (before they went on sale) had quite a few bugs in them, but I dealt with it so I could get the HDTV support written for Myth before the cards were released. Small price to pay, but it did give me a good chance to test things for myself. I also couldn't afford a "dev system" so my production system is my dev system. The system has been to about 7 LUG meetings and traveled close to 1000 miles. At the last few it has started to act odd (Hardware boot detection) so it's now retired from that job, and I highly discourage anyone from doing this. I do have a 720VA UPS but we do get power loss for more than 30 minutes and it has run out of battery several times. I've also in quick panics (sudden and major lightning storms) just hard powered the system off. Or when I start to smell something hot. ;) > How about opening up the case and disconnecting the reset switch from the > Mobo? > You could do the same for the power button. Then the kids can press all they > want. Kids should never play with servers I think. :) Every home should have a server room with a key lock. I think I've known more people who have had computers ruined by spilt drinks than power buttons. ;) > I guess I haven't tried to delete any 2GB files lately, and I will have to > soon... but how slow is it? Does the Mythfrontend interface "hang/pause" > while you are waiting for the delete to complete? Could this just be put > into the background with '&' to improve the UI response time, if that's the > driving factor? Myth's under interface locks, or it atleast it did last time I tried. Even with JFS, if I needed to delete 40 shows that occupied 700GB's it would take about a few minutes. XFS is instant, so 40 shows takes about 1 minute (as long as you take to select delete). I know there was talk about marking shows for deletion, and not deleting them until needed. I think this went in, but I'm not 100% sure. If you're not dealing with shows between 5GB-100GB's each, filesystem is even less important. --Brandon ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On Fri, 2005-09-09 at 12:51, Brian McEntire wrote: > Oh yeah, buy a UPS ;-) > Highly recommended, not only for the mythtv box but the TV itself. > > I guess I haven't tried to delete any 2GB files lately, and I will > have to soon... but how slow is it? Does the Mythfrontend interface > "hang/pause" while you are waiting for the delete to complete? Could > this just be put into the background with '&' to improve the UI > response time, if that's the driving factor? > I delete shows all the time which are a little over 2GB in size. Using an XFS file system and it is very fast. No discernible delay when doing this on my system. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
You guys with the kids and the reset buttons are giving me high blood pressure!! ;-) NO FILE SYSTEM is intended to sustain regular unclean shutdowns. If you get through a few unclean shutdowns, count yourself lucky, but don't rely on it. How about opening up the case and disconnecting the reset switch from the Mobo? You could do the same for the power button. Then the kids can press all they want. Oh yeah, buy a UPS ;-) I guess I haven't tried to delete any 2GB files lately, and I will have to soon... but how slow is it? Does the Mythfrontend interface "hang/pause" while you are waiting for the delete to complete? Could this just be put into the background with '&' to improve the UI response time, if that's the driving factor? ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
Michael Segulja wrote: I have trouble with JFS on my recording partition any time the computer is rebooted uncleanly. I have lots of problems with the kids hitting the reset button because they think it's fun! :-) Ever considered disconnecting the reset button from the motherboard? I did this on a case I had a while back that had a overly sensitive reset button that was easily hit when putting bags etc down in front of the computer. I mean, how often does a linux box need resetting? Of course, the kids might then go for the power button... Kim. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On Fri, Sep 09, 2005 at 07:13:31AM -0700, Asher Schaffer wrote: > I have heard of problems with XFS with any power outages, bad > shutdowns, etc. I use JFS and have found it very fast (excellent > large file deletes). I'm curious to other people's opinion of it, > doesn't seem to get as much mention here as XFS or Reiser. I've run XFS on 5x200GB drives in LVM with a 2GB root and 1TB /media partition for over a year. Prior to this setup I ran XFS for 6 months and JFS on 250GB of Raid 5 and 750GB of Raid 0 for just over a year. I've had no corruption on any of them. I've hard rebooed the system many dozens of times in all setups without any problems. The only problems I've ever had were because a disk went bad and LVM choked hard, and I lost everything. JFS in my testing had slightly better performance (5%) than XFS but used about 50% more CPU than XFS. I think both XFS and JFS are good choices. I did not pick reiser for many reasons. The two major reasons were I hated waiting 15 seconds to delete a 100+GB file/recording. JFS took about 3 seconds, XFS is almost instant. The second reason is that I've seen the people who write and support resier skew benchmark results to try to make them look better and that's enough for me not trust it to be better overall. Resier 4 is likely to be very, very good. For me, XFS and JFS are my choices, and work perfectly well. JFS may be slightly more stable than XFS from reports I've heard too. I don't think anyone would be unhappy with either of these choices. Back when myth didn't have ringbuffers for HD recordings filesystem performance made a huge difference. I found problems with ext2, ext3, and reiser 3 when recording 4 HD shows and watching another at the same time (Very common for me to be doing). I also did this on a AMD 2500 which was before a little bloatware in Myth and the 2500 would work fine for HD viewing. If I were to build another system today, I'd pick JFS or XFS based on which was usable during the system installer. If both were there I'd pick JFS just "incase I did have those XFS power problems" but that's such a small point. It really comes down to how much do you want to perfect things. At some point it's not worth the time. I suppose if I wanted the "perfect setup" I'd use reiser 4 for my root fs that holds the mysql database and system programs, jfs for things I don't want to lose as easly, and xfs for the 100's of GB's for HD recordings. This can be a pain though, and to me isn't worth it, so I pick XFS or JFS for everything. The performance for most everything (but deleting) I've found is so close it's not worth the time figuring out. -- And on top of all this, one FS may work better on a certain brand or model of hard drive than another setup. It's just not worth it to "figure out" unless you need ever last IO to be perfected, and frankly it's no longer needed in a HTPC as of about a year ago. So, pick what's most convenient. --Brandon ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On Fri, Sep 09, 2005 at 09:49:13AM -0500, Mike Daugird wrote: > Why do you run fsck so much? Keep the machine up 24/7, linux is a stable OS > and doesn't need to reboot everyday to keep running. Clean reboots do not beget fscking. If someone is running fsck all the time, it's due to power issues, flaky hardware, children who think it's fun to press the reset button, etc. Or maybe they only end up fscking once or twice a year, but prefer that it not take forever to complete. Power outages have a tendency to strike just before your favorite show on days when you're not home, after all... -- The freedoms that we enjoy presently are the most important victories of the White Hats over the past several millennia, and it is vitally important that we don't give them up now, only because we are frightened. - Eolake Stobblehouse (http://stobblehouse.com/text/battle.html) ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
RE: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
What you have said simply isn't the case. Ext2 might be "rock solid", but that also translates into "dog slow" at what MythTV users want to do. XFS or JFS is the best choice for a MythTV shows partition. They are both excellent at handling large files. I recommend JFS. ReiserFS is the best choice for a many-small-file partition, much like /usr/portage on Gentoo. You'll find that Linux isn't that stable when it comes to using MythTV. I have found memory leaks in either my sound card driver or the MythTV program itself (sound quits working after a couple of days). Andrew -Original Message- From: Mike Daugird [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:49 AM To: mythtv-users@mythtv.org Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system in my opinion ext2 is better then most people give it credit. It is rock solid and it is the fastest. I know journaling systems are super kick a$$ awesome hot cool sweet and UBER great. Why do you run fsck so much? Keep the machine up 24/7, linux is a stable OS and doesn't need to reboot everyday to keep running. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
in my opinion ext2 is better then most people give it credit. It is rock solid and it is the fastest. I know journaling systems are super kick a$$ awesome hot cool sweet and UBER great. Why do you run fsck so much? Keep the machine up 24/7, linux is a stable OS and doesn't need to reboot everyday to keep running. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
Asher Schaffer wrote: On 9/9/05, Stef Coene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, Currently, I have a 70 GB partition formatted as ext3. It's a bit slow when deleting big files so I want to reformat it. But what's the best choice? XFS is good, but what's the file system check speed? Running fsck on my ext3 file system takes forever... Stef I have heard of problems with XFS with any power outages, bad shutdowns, etc. I use JFS and have found it very fast (excellent large file deletes). I'm curious to other people's opinion of it, doesn't seem to get as much mention here as XFS or Reiser. I have trouble with JFS on my recording partition any time the computer is rebooted uncleanly. I have lots of problems with the kids hitting the reset button because they think it's fun! :-) When the system comes back up, my JFS partitions don't mount. I have to manually run jfs_fsck on them and then mount them manually or reboot. If I do a clean shutdown it's fine. I'm wondering if anybody else is having this problem? I'm running Fedora Core 3. The biggest issue with this is it happening when I don't know about it, and a scheduled recording starts. It records to the root patition since my video partition isn't mounted, and runs out of space real fast and then crashes the OS!! Anyway, just wanted to put in my experience with JFS. Other than that it seems very good and very fast on deletes to me as well. Michael Segulja LMD Computing Solutions, Inc. (281) 376-8181 | Office. (281) 300-8285 | Mobile (281) 576-7230 | Fax http://www.lmdcs.com | | To mess up a Linux box, you need to work at it; | to mess up your Windows box, you just need to work on it. | - Scott Granneman, Security Focus | ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On 09/09/05, Asher Schaffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 9/9/05, Stef Coene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Currently, I have a 70 GB partition formatted as ext3. It's a bit slow when > > deleting big files so I want to reformat it. But what's the best choice? > > XFS is good, but what's the file system check speed? Running fsck on my > > ext3 > > file system takes forever... > > > > > > Stef > > I have heard of problems with XFS with any power outages, bad > shutdowns, etc. I use JFS and have found it very fast (excellent > large file deletes). I'm curious to other people's opinion of it, > doesn't seem to get as much mention here as XFS or Reiser. I also opted for JFS for my recordings-partition. AFAIK, it's the fastest for deleting large files and that's what the recordings-FS mainly is. Some GB-sized nuv's and some smaller png's. ReiserFS might be fast for lots of small files but this isn't the case. And IIRC JFS is from IBM and is used in AIX so I'd think it's pretty mature. N. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On 9/9/05, Stef Coene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > Currently, I have a 70 GB partition formatted as ext3. It's a bit slow when > deleting big files so I want to reformat it. But what's the best choice? > XFS is good, but what's the file system check speed? Running fsck on my ext3 > file system takes forever... > > > Stef I have heard of problems with XFS with any power outages, bad shutdowns, etc. I use JFS and have found it very fast (excellent large file deletes). I'm curious to other people's opinion of it, doesn't seem to get as much mention here as XFS or Reiser. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On 9/9/05, Sérgio Gomes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "Fastest" is a bit relative, some are better in some situations, some > are better in others... > > Anyway, Reiser4 should be the fastest overall, and it has full > journaling and atomic writes (which means you should never get your > filesystem corrupted). It's also the newest, however, and could still > have a few bugs left. It's also not available in the mainstream kernel, > so you need to patch your kernel or get a patched one. > > ReiserFS (aka Reiser3) is also pretty good, especially when handling > lots of tiny files. Only has metadata journaling (directories and such). > It is a lot better than ext3. > > In fact, ext3 is one of the worst in terms of performance. > > XFS only has metadata journaling. It's not optimized for your setup > though, it is oriented for very large systems, with very fast disks. It > has some problems with data loss in crashes or power shortages, because > it stores quite a few things in RAM before writing to disk. Definitely > not recommended for your setup. > > These are the ones I know, although I've never tried Reiser4 (it was > quite unstable in 64-bit mode until a while ago, so I never used it). > > All these systems are (to several degrees) journalled, which means that > system checking should be very fast, under one second or something, > because they keep a log of activities, and they only need to check that > log in case of problems. > > > As to which, I've had no problems with ReiserFS, and I recommend it. If > you like experimenting, do regular backups, and don't mind using a > relatively new filesystem, then go for Reiser4, it should be the fastest > and best in terms of journalling. > > > Sérgio Gomes > > --- > Stef Coene wrote: > > >Hi, > > > >Currently, I have a 70 GB partition formatted as ext3. It's a bit slow when > >deleting big files so I want to reformat it. But what's the best choice? > >XFS is good, but what's the file system check speed? Running fsck on my ext3 > >file system takes forever... > > > > > >Stef > > > > > > > > > >___ > >mythtv-users mailing list > >mythtv-users@mythtv.org > >http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users > > > > > > ___ > mythtv-users mailing list > mythtv-users@mythtv.org > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users > I like reiserfs and am using reiserfs3 for my journaled partition. But speed wise it is actaully the slowest at deletes. But that said, it has other features I like. It can be resized up OR down in size. I actually used this durning my last upgrade where I took some space from my video storage to use for installing a new distro for rebuild. I think that xfs can only go larger in size.. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On Fri, Sep 09, 2005 at 09:35:46AM -0400, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > On Fri, Sep 09, 2005 at 12:52:37PM +0100, David wrote: > > about a second on 1.2Tb system :) > > Ok, I'd like to clarify a point here. > > Yes, that's how long it takes to replay the journals on a dirty > shutdown and restart. > > But even journalling filesystems break occasionally, and just playing > the journal won't help. > > And at that point, they all pretty much fsck at the same fscking speed: slow. And, in fairness to David, he did already say that. I haven't gotten enough sleep this week. :-) Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL PROTECTED] Designer Baylink RFC 2100 Ashworth & AssociatesThe Things I Think'87 e24 St Petersburg FL USA http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 "NPR has a lot in common with Nascar... we both turn to the left." - Peter Sagal, on Wait Wait, Don't Tell Me! ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
On Fri, Sep 09, 2005 at 12:52:37PM +0100, David wrote: > about a second on 1.2Tb system :) Ok, I'd like to clarify a point here. Yes, that's how long it takes to replay the journals on a dirty shutdown and restart. But even journalling filesystems break occasionally, and just playing the journal won't help. And at that point, they all pretty much fsck at the same fscking speed: slow. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL PROTECTED] Designer Baylink RFC 2100 Ashworth & AssociatesThe Things I Think'87 e24 St Petersburg FL USA http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 "NPR has a lot in common with Nascar... we both turn to the left." - Peter Sagal, on Wait Wait, Don't Tell Me! ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
"Fastest" is a bit relative, some are better in some situations, some are better in others... Anyway, Reiser4 should be the fastest overall, and it has full journaling and atomic writes (which means you should never get your filesystem corrupted). It's also the newest, however, and could still have a few bugs left. It's also not available in the mainstream kernel, so you need to patch your kernel or get a patched one. ReiserFS (aka Reiser3) is also pretty good, especially when handling lots of tiny files. Only has metadata journaling (directories and such). It is a lot better than ext3. In fact, ext3 is one of the worst in terms of performance. XFS only has metadata journaling. It's not optimized for your setup though, it is oriented for very large systems, with very fast disks. It has some problems with data loss in crashes or power shortages, because it stores quite a few things in RAM before writing to disk. Definitely not recommended for your setup. These are the ones I know, although I've never tried Reiser4 (it was quite unstable in 64-bit mode until a while ago, so I never used it). All these systems are (to several degrees) journalled, which means that system checking should be very fast, under one second or something, because they keep a log of activities, and they only need to check that log in case of problems. As to which, I've had no problems with ReiserFS, and I recommend it. If you like experimenting, do regular backups, and don't mind using a relatively new filesystem, then go for Reiser4, it should be the fastest and best in terms of journalling. Sérgio Gomes --- Stef Coene wrote: Hi, Currently, I have a 70 GB partition formatted as ext3. It's a bit slow when deleting big files so I want to reformat it. But what's the best choice? XFS is good, but what's the file system check speed? Running fsck on my ext3 file system takes forever... Stef ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fastest file system
about a second on 1.2Tb system :) (Joys of a journalling filesystem - others are similar) Also it takes about 3 seconds to mkfs too. Full repair type operations obviously take a *lot* longer but that's also the same on all filesystems since it has to read and validate all the data and/or metadata. David Stef Coene wrote: >Hi, > >Currently, I have a 70 GB partition formatted as ext3. It's a bit slow when >deleting big files so I want to reformat it. But what's the best choice? >XFS is good, but what's the file system check speed? Running fsck on my ext3 >file system takes forever... > > >Stef > > > > >___ >mythtv-users mailing list >mythtv-users@mythtv.org >http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users > > ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
[mythtv-users] Fastest file system
Hi, Currently, I have a 70 GB partition formatted as ext3. It's a bit slow when deleting big files so I want to reformat it. But what's the best choice? XFS is good, but what's the file system check speed? Running fsck on my ext3 file system takes forever... Stef ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
