Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
His rack mount server probably didn't have a monitor either... monitors suck power like there's no tomorrow. This is one benefit of living in KY - we have dirt cheap electricity. Thank you coal + hydro! ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
On Sun, Mar 20, 2005 at 08:11:25PM -0900, John Andersen wrote: > On Sunday 20 March 2005 19:40, Brad Templeton wrote: > > Well, no, that is indeed what many always-on servers with 3 disk drives > > and a high speed processor and a fancy graphics card and various other > > cards do indeed draw, all day long. > > No its not. Measure it and you will find out. > > Specs don't mean didly squat. Follow the thread. What you read > on the back of the machine is not what it consumes in actual use. > > Unlike others here, I DID measure machines routinely as part of > my job. A high end Zeon rack mount server would draw half an amp > with a three disk raid spinning while copying data from the CdRom. > 60 watts. They have gotten much better of late. This is a reply to a message from here from 2 months ago. I actually am running right now off of batteries and the power meter on my inverter is reading 120 to 130 watts running the computer (with 3 disk drives, a GPU, an Athlon 3000 not doing much and a few other minor peripherals.) My power's out because a car smashed into the power pole in front of my house!!! Thus it got me to get around and measuring it as you challenged. My feelings about the power usage were correct, and I don't think it's unusual for desktop systems like mine, nor do I think you must be wrong about your rack mount server, which is probably designed for better power efficiency. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
Well, never imageined that my first post here would be way OT, but I could not resist here :) Kelly Grigg wrote: Yeah...getting way OT...but, from what I've read...the Kyoto as written, could really potentially put the US at a severe disadvantage...and let many other countries off the hook like China and India..etc. It needs to be re-written so as to be more fair in its considerations of economies both existing and potential If you only consider economy: You are right, since many of the industries in the US pollute (CO2 term) the environment as 30 years before, e.g. no extra filtering. But since the US are the world's top CO2 producer, not only in terms of total amount, but also per head, any treaty without the US in this sector is relatively useless (in 2002 the US produced/polluted Earth with as much CO2 as China and Russia together). As long as only economics counts, Kyoto includes severe disadvantages, but if the US (governments) keep on being stubborn, in a few decades, probably we all have to pay the price for it and have larger problems than thinking about economy. OK, I'll leave it to this and conclude with: Thank you, for all the work on MythTV (I just installed it last week) and if I run into problems, I'll ask them here. Carsten ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
Yeah...getting way OT...but, from what I've read...the Kyoto as written, could really potentially put the US at a severe disadvantage...and let many other countries off the hook like China and India..etc. It needs to be re-written so as to be more fair in its considerations of economies both existing and potential My $0.02, K On Mar 20, 2005, at 9:26 PM, Robert Denier wrote: On Mon, 2005-03-21 at 12:25 +1100, Phill Edwards wrote: On Sunday 20 March 2005 14:33, Brad Templeton wrote: [snip] T Yes I think it is quite dumb that my country (the US) refuses to sign up to Kyoto, or to at least try to work out some version the US can sign. We are after all the biggest polluters. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
Phill Edwards wrote: Unfortunately America and Australia (where I live) have not signed up to Kyoto which is a crying shame. Regards, Phill Kyoto is an instrument who's purpose was primarily to move large amounts of monetary resources from the USA to the rest of the world. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
On Sunday 20 March 2005 19:40, Brad Templeton wrote: > Well, no, that is indeed what many always-on servers with 3 disk drives > and a high speed processor and a fancy graphics card and various other > cards do indeed draw, all day long. Â No its not. Measure it and you will find out. > > > with no documentation to back it up. > > How about my power bill? Â14.1 cents per kwh. Â How about the specs on > the components in the systems or power meters? Specs don't mean didly squat. Follow the thread. What you read on the back of the machine is not what it consumes in actual use. Unlike others here, I DID measure machines routinely as part of my job. A high end Zeon rack mount server would draw half an amp with a three disk raid spinning while copying data from the CdRom. 60 watts. They have gotten much better of late. -- __Jsa_ ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
On Sunday 20 March 2005 17:20, Thor Johnson wrote: > I mostly agree with what you're saying but I figure I'll thow a few > logs in the fire; except: Most US power supplies are ~50% efficient, > so you can draw up to 700 KW (mine says 750 KVA), but the power factor > for these puppies is terrible (.6-.8 like another poster said), so the > "real" consumption may not be as visible... Sigh Like I said, we measured these machines with a strip chart recording ammeter (with a technician from CSA observing the tests). http://www.amprobe.com/cgi-bin/pdc/viewprod.cgi?pid=233&tid=1&type=elec There is no use speculating and hypothesizing when I have strip charts to prove it. If the "real consumption" is not visible to the amprobe its not visible to the power company meter either. -- __Jsa_ ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
On Sun, Mar 20, 2005 at 04:16:00PM -0900, John Andersen wrote: > The whole thread has been about debunking that myth. I didn't say CPUs always take 80 watts. But I believe that's not a bad number for the whole package, it's what I measured my server at. Not all California pays the 14 cents we pay here, I agree. > > 100 watts per year at average California prices is > about $83 bucks, and that ASSUMES it draws 100 > watts 24/7/365, which is not a valid assumption. Well, no, that is indeed what many always-on servers with 3 disk drives and a high speed processor and a fancy graphics card and various other cards do indeed draw, all day long. More when they are playing HD, transcoding or commercial eliminating, which they do several hours a day in many myth systems. The supposed average family that watches 6 hours/day (I think that's crazy but you keep seeing numbers like that) is going to use their CPU a lot. > with no documentation to back it up. How about my power bill? 14.1 cents per kwh. How about the specs on the components in the systems or power meters? ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
On Mon, 2005-03-21 at 13:21 +1000, David Whyte wrote: > > Hrm... this > > might be my excuse to get a PVR x50 card (~20/mo savings, payback in > > 5-6 months... not too shabby). > > > > Doesn't that just mean the card will consume the power to do its > magic? So where you save on the CPU you lose on the tuner. > > Maybe...unless it takes less energy just to write the MPEG2! > For people that are really determined to save power, you might want to pick up a clamp on ammeter. They run about $30 or $40 at hardware stores. You will also need an extension cord you can separate and get one and only one of the power wires inside the clamp. (All the insulation should be left on the wires.) Power = i^2 * R so basically power utilization goes up as the square of the current. For the actual power usage multiply the amp reading by the RMS voltage. I suspect thats about the only way to be sure if the PVR-250 will save you any power usage overall. Personally I rather doubt it will be that much. On another note. I have no earthly clue what the power factor is for computer power supplies, but one would think it would be possible to add the correctly sized AC capacitors and correct that if you were really concerned about it. Of course then you need to do all the math and make sure a nice case is found to keep the capacitor terminals away from anyones fingers. Actually I don't remember if conventional electric meters will read a larger value because of the tendency for the inductive loads to outnumber the capacitive ones or not. It might be something to check on one day. -- Robert Denier ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) PhD Electrical Engineering (May 2005) University of Missouri-Rolla http://www.finiteinfinity.com ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
On Mon, 2005-03-21 at 12:25 +1100, Phill Edwards wrote: > > On Sunday 20 March 2005 14:33, Brad Templeton wrote: [snip] > > Why is all the talk about money? What about the environmental impacts > of leaving the things running all the time? We all have a duty to save > as much energy as we can to reduce global warming. Unfortunately > America and Australia (where I live) have not signed up to Kyoto which > is a crying shame. This is OT, so I should resist, but it is worth noting that computers are getting better at saving power, as well as the Linux infrastructure to support it. If you wait a few years, the problem will likely solve itself there, more or less. Of course there are various options now for the determined, and in all likely hood wise decision making might save the differences on the electric bill. Yes I think it is quite dumb that my country (the US) refuses to sign up to Kyoto, or to at least try to work out some version the US can sign. We are after all the biggest polluters. Overall, we are not going to save our way out of the energy mess, although some can help a very great deal. The only sane solution seems to be nuclear. It doesn't cause global warming. It doesn't emit lots of air pollution or even the radioactivity of a coal plant emits into the air in the form of particles. Yes there is a small amount of extremely toxic material you have to store forever, but with the new techniques that apparently convert it into some form of glass like structure its apparently pretty stable. Sure it would be nice if fusion suddenly worked and all our problems were solved, but for now, nuclear seems the best bet. I'd certainly rather live next to a nuclear plant, than a coal burning one. Actually for something on topic, I wonder if it would be at all useful for mythfrontend to keep some form of internal timer going and if it exceeds some preset threshold, say 12 hours, without a channel change then for the system to give a warning and then exit live tv mode. The idea being to save power/wear and tear in the event someone forgets about it. I'm not sure its a feature anyone would really care about though. > > Regards, > Phill > ___ > mythtv-users mailing list > mythtv-users@mythtv.org > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users > -- Robert Denier ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) PhD Electrical Engineering (May 2005) University of Missouri-Rolla http://www.finiteinfinity.com ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
> Hrm... this > might be my excuse to get a PVR x50 card (~20/mo savings, payback in > 5-6 months... not too shabby). > Doesn't that just mean the card will consume the power to do its magic? So where you save on the CPU you lose on the tuner. Maybe...unless it takes less energy just to write the MPEG2! -- GMAIL is 'da bomb babyYEAH I have GMail invites, if you want one, email me direct. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
> If the computer turned all the electricity it consumed > directly into heat it could do no more than a 350 watt > space heater. That is to say, very little. (most space > heaters are 2500 watts and up). > > A 350 watt power supply seldom draws more than 100 > watts because no one burns cdroms while recording floppy > drives and exercising the harddrive to the max on a box > with every slot filled and every card pulling the max. > Just does not happen. I mostly agree with what you're saying but I figure I'll thow a few logs in the fire; except: Most US power supplies are ~50% efficient, so you can draw up to 700 KW (mine says 750 KVA), but the power factor for these puppies is terrible (.6-.8 like another poster said), so the "real" consumption may not be as visible... > Times 30 days = about $33 /month. << Worst Case > ~5.00 <(ya, I deleted this bit prematurely) << Best Case The real number should be in between -- I don't think you can count a myth box that pegs the CPU as idle most of the time... Hrm... this might be my excuse to get a PVR x50 card (~20/mo savings, payback in 5-6 months... not too shabby). -Thor Johnson ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
> On Sunday 20 March 2005 14:33, Brad Templeton wrote: > > The power is growing. Even the CPUs are taking up to 80 watts to run. But > > anyway, 100 watts is over $120 a year in California, less in some places, > > more in others. > > The whole thread has been about debunking that myth. > > California prices are not that far from the national average: > http://www.coaleducation.org/Ky_Coal_Facts/electricity/average_cost.htm > > 100 watts per year at average California prices is > about $83 bucks, and that ASSUMES it draws 100 > watts 24/7/365, which is not a valid assumption. > > CPUs do not take 80 watts to run unless they are > very busy. 35 watts is typical in the idle state > (which is where the cpu spends the overwhelmingly > vast majority of the time). > http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/pentium4-6xx_7.html > > Therefore, you've double the costs figures to prove your point > with no documentation to back it up. Why is all the talk about money? What about the environmental impacts of leaving the things running all the time? We all have a duty to save as much energy as we can to reduce global warming. Unfortunately America and Australia (where I live) have not signed up to Kyoto which is a crying shame. Regards, Phill ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
On Sunday 20 March 2005 14:33, Brad Templeton wrote: > The power is growing. ÂEven the CPUs are taking up to 80 watts to run. ÂBut > anyway, 100 watts is over $120 a year in California, less in some places, > more in others. The whole thread has been about debunking that myth. California prices are not that far from the national average: http://www.coaleducation.org/Ky_Coal_Facts/electricity/average_cost.htm 100 watts per year at average California prices is about $83 bucks, and that ASSUMES it draws 100 watts 24/7/365, which is not a valid assumption. CPUs do not take 80 watts to run unless they are very busy. 35 watts is typical in the idle state (which is where the cpu spends the overwhelmingly vast majority of the time). http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/pentium4-6xx_7.html Therefore, you've double the costs figures to prove your point with no documentation to back it up. -- __Jsa_ ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
On Sun, Mar 20, 2005 at 08:58:22AM -0500, Khanh Tran wrote: > Yes, and by these numbers, it should go to show mom's old rant was true. We > don't own stock in the electric company. Turning off a few of those 60-100 > watt light bulbs in rooms you aren't in would probably more than offset the > cost of an added mythbox. Especially for frontend-only systems. I'd wager > your CRT TV/monitor consumes more than your Mythbox. Not when it's off. That was the point of the discussion. The myth boxes are on all the time and don't need to be if you get suspend working reliably. The power is growing. Even the CPUs are taking up to 80 watts to run. But anyway, 100 watts is over $120 a year in California, less in some places, more in others.Even though hard drives take only about 12 watts, and that's only about $45 over the 3 year life of a drive, that does make the difference between two smaller hard drives and one large one. The power is starting to cost even more than that best buy drive (after rebate) people were talking about on this list. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
Living in New Orleans.when it gets hot and humid...in another month... My computers I have on in the house are the LAST of my concern.. :-) When you have to turn on the A/C in April...and don't get to turn it off till late November...I'm not really to concerned about the power consumption of my computers and all running 24/7. Although I do tend to run most boxes headless...and turn off the monitors when not in use. I figure if you've got the extra funds to put a computer together dedicated to MythTvyou shouldn't really be concerned about a little extra on the power bill... :-) Kinda like driving a Porsche, and worry about how much gas costs... K On Mar 20, 2005, at 2:57 PM, John Andersen wrote: On Sunday 20 March 2005 09:24, Rich Hall wrote: William wrote: Your typical 19 inch CRT monitor draws about 500 watts. They draw close to 1000 watts at startup (mostly due to filiment startup current and the degausing coil). Your newer lcd displays draw less than 150 watts so there is a huge savings energy wise. BTW your typical television draws about the same current as the same size crt monitor. Function wise they are nearly identical so you would expect the currents to be about the same too. Where did you get those numbers from??? I have been in the repair business for 40+ yrs and have measured the power consumption of a lot of equipment.. Really simple to do.. measure the current and multiply it by the supply voltage = power. A typical 17-19" monito will consume between 100-140 watts.. max.. the surge current does not matter in the grand scheme of things.. I agree with Rich here. I use amprobe equipment http://omnicontrols.com/lists/amprobere.html to measure draw on equipment (because we have to do these tests on equipment we manufacture), especially the high density machines (lots of drives, built in raid arrays etc). I was initially surprised at how little they draw compared to the rating printed on the power supplys. (Deeper reading into the power supply specs would often reveal that they could not sustain their claimed rating for very long). We even measure the power save mode on monitors to see if there was any real saving. Contrary to our suspicions (we tend to be skeptical) we found that monitors really do save a lot of power in powersave mode - not standby mode. Newer ones save much more than older ones. Letting a monitor go to power save kills off just most of the load, and some models drop below 10 watts, (Christmas tree bulb country). My personal opinion (no research) is that the wear and tear of power on/off does more damage to the equipment than letting it take care of itself and run 24/7. Fans may not start if cold, but once started they very seldom stop. Will it start again when your myth box wakes up to record your show after it has been off for 24 hours? -- __Jsa_ ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
On Sunday 20 March 2005 09:24, Rich Hall wrote: > William wrote: > >Your typical 19 inch CRT monitor draws about 500 watts. They draw close to > >1000 watts at startup (mostly due to filiment startup current and the > >degausing coil). Your newer lcd displays draw less than 150 watts so there > >is a huge savings energy wise. BTW your typical television draws about the > >same current as the same size crt monitor. Function wise they are nearly > >identical so you would expect the currents to be about the same too. > > Where did you get those numbers from??? I have been in the repair business > for 40+ yrs and have measured the power consumption of a lot of equipment.. > Really simple to do.. measure the current and multiply it by the supply > voltage = power. A typical 17-19" monito will consume between 100-140 > watts.. max.. the surge current does not matter in the grand scheme of > things.. I agree with Rich here. I use amprobe equipment http://omnicontrols.com/lists/amprobere.html to measure draw on equipment (because we have to do these tests on equipment we manufacture), especially the high density machines (lots of drives, built in raid arrays etc). I was initially surprised at how little they draw compared to the rating printed on the power supplys. (Deeper reading into the power supply specs would often reveal that they could not sustain their claimed rating for very long). We even measure the power save mode on monitors to see if there was any real saving. Contrary to our suspicions (we tend to be skeptical) we found that monitors really do save a lot of power in powersave mode - not standby mode. Newer ones save much more than older ones. Letting a monitor go to power save kills off just most of the load, and some models drop below 10 watts, (Christmas tree bulb country). My personal opinion (no research) is that the wear and tear of power on/off does more damage to the equipment than letting it take care of itself and run 24/7. Fans may not start if cold, but once started they very seldom stop. Will it start again when your myth box wakes up to record your show after it has been off for 24 hours? -- __Jsa_ ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
> >Your typical 19 inch CRT monitor draws about 500 watts. They draw close to > >1000 watts at startup (mostly due to filiment startup current and the > >degausing coil). Your newer lcd displays draw less than 150 watts so there > >is a huge savings energy wise. BTW your typical television draws about the > >same current as the same size crt monitor. Function wise they are nearly > >identical so you would expect the currents to be about the same too. > > Where did you get those numbers from??? I have been in the repair business for 40+ > yrs and have measured the power consumption of a lot of equipment.. Really simple to > do.. measure the current and multiply it by the supply voltage = power. Actually the product should be integrated, which might result in a lower value. I have a power meter, which does that. It gives me a power consumption of around 60 W with a "power factor" of around 0.55. So apparently the current is not in phase with the voltage. However most other power meters including most of those that calculate our power bills do not measure power, but current, so actually the phase shift or "power factor" does not count anyway. But if you use an electronic power meter if might measure the actual power consumption which is lower than what you pay for. So my MythTV box uses 60 W, but I pay for 110 W. Niels Dybdahl ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
William wrote: >Your typical 19 inch CRT monitor draws about 500 watts. They draw close to >1000 watts at startup (mostly due to filiment startup current and the >degausing coil). Your newer lcd displays draw less than 150 watts so there >is a huge savings energy wise. BTW your typical television draws about the >same current as the same size crt monitor. Function wise they are nearly >identical so you would expect the currents to be about the same too. Where did you get those numbers from??? I have been in the repair business for 40+ yrs and have measured the power consumption of a lot of equipment.. Really simple to do.. measure the current and multiply it by the supply voltage = power. A typical 17-19" monito will consume between 100-140 watts.. max.. the surge current does not matter in the grand scheme of things.. it is a spike of not more than about 1 second in duration.. totally insignificant. The old 23-25" tube TV's of 30 yrs ago only consumed 500-750 watts typically.. Your numbers for a 19" monitor are way way off. Most of the average home desktop computers suck between 65-100 watts and will peak on boot or heavy drive usage about 25% greater. I have a new dual AMD 3500-64 w/8gb ram with 6 250 gb SATA drives for a customer and the measured power is just over 210 watts running idle and avgs about 240 watts moving data between drives on burnin. -R -- Rich Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.netlynx.us/rich/ ham radio: kf6arx No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message; however, a significant number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. And remember - if it ain't broke, hit it again. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
Ouch, your "typical" numbers are way off from what I'm seeing. There's no way I'd ever run a monitor at home that draws 500 Watts! I'd be switching to something else in a heartbeat. NEC MultiSync 5D 20", 19" viewable (15 years old): 95W Dell LCD 19" LCD (1 month old): 30W These were measured this morning with a device called a "KILL A WATT" to measure draw and usage over time. I can't measure in-rush power draw, but I'd expect between 5-10 X the normal draw for a fraction of a second. For reference, my P4 HT 3.4 MHz machine draws 100W idle and about 150W during boot. # Endaf William wrote: Yes, and by these numbers, it should go to show mom's old rant was true. We don't own stock in the electric company. Turning off a few of those 60-100 watt light bulbs in rooms you aren't in would probably more than offset the cost of an added mythbox. Especially for frontend-only systems. I'd wager your CRT TV/monitor consumes more than your Mythbox. -Khanh Your typical 19 inch CRT monitor draws about 500 watts. They draw close to 1000 watts at startup (mostly due to filiment startup current and the degausing coil). Your newer lcd displays draw less than 150 watts so there is a huge savings energy wise. BTW your typical television draws about the same current as the same size crt monitor. Function wise they are nearly identical so you would expect the currents to be about the same too. Bill ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
RE: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
> Yes, and by these numbers, it should go to show mom's old > rant was true. We don't own stock in the electric company. > Turning off a few of those 60-100 watt light bulbs in rooms > you aren't in would probably more than offset the cost of an > added mythbox. Especially for frontend-only systems. I'd > wager your CRT TV/monitor consumes more than your Mythbox. > > -Khanh Your typical 19 inch CRT monitor draws about 500 watts. They draw close to 1000 watts at startup (mostly due to filiment startup current and the degausing coil). Your newer lcd displays draw less than 150 watts so there is a huge savings energy wise. BTW your typical television draws about the same current as the same size crt monitor. Function wise they are nearly identical so you would expect the currents to be about the same too. Bill ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
> Yes, and by these numbers, it should go to show mom's old rant was true. We > don't own stock in the electric company. Turning off a few of those 60-100 > watt light bulbs in rooms you aren't in would probably more than offset the > cost of an added mythbox. Especially for frontend-only systems. I'd wager > your CRT TV/monitor consumes more than your Mythbox. In europe electricty is 2 to 3 times more expensive. I try and maximise my efficiency to reduce my bills. Greg ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
RE: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
Yes, and by these numbers, it should go to show mom's old rant was true. We don't own stock in the electric company. Turning off a few of those 60-100 watt light bulbs in rooms you aren't in would probably more than offset the cost of an added mythbox. Especially for frontend-only systems. I'd wager your CRT TV/monitor consumes more than your Mythbox. -Khanh -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Andersen Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 6:37 AM To: mythtv-users@mythtv.org Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes On Thursday 17 March 2005 05:59, Charles Choukalos wrote: > Hi John, > > Actually I'm in Texas (makes Jersy look like Paradise) and during oh > what 9 months out of the year its hotter then hells kitchen (brown and > ugly too). When I lived in New England electricity was a lot more > expensive but leaving on the computer provided a little heat in the > house and maybe hit my electric bill by $10 a month or so... not too > bad. Down here during the long ass hot desert period its about a $50 > hit (most of that is cooling). Not to mention you rapidly realize > just how much heat a computer throws off If the computer turned all the electricity it consumed directly into heat it could do no more than a 350 watt space heater. That is to say, very little. (most space heaters are 2500 watts and up). A 350 watt power supply seldom draws more than 100 watts because no one burns cdroms while recording floppy drives and exercising the harddrive to the max on a box with every slot filled and every card pulling the max. Just does not happen. But lets assume for a moment that you really could draw 350 watts on your Mythbox 24/7. (That box can't consume more than 350 watts. fuze blows if it tries.) .350 kilowatts for 24 hours = 8.4 kilowatt hours times (plug in your number) $0.13 / kwh = $1.09 per day maximum theoretical possible. Times 30 days = about $33 /month. But since most pc power supplies are running at about 80 watts (measured by me) even when working hard, AND rates in Texas tend to be closer th 8cents than they are to 13cents http://www.puc.state.tx.us/nrelease/2000/120700.cfm , your bill for running the above average PC 24/7 is likely to be .08kw x 24h x 30 days x 8cents = $4.60 / month I think you doth protest too much. ;-) -- __Jsa_ ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
Exactly the ammo I was after. I will go off the 80-100 watts figure and use the cost for Logan (nr Brisbane, QLD, Australia). Can't be too expensive after all :P On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 02:36:41 -0900, John Andersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thursday 17 March 2005 05:59, Charles Choukalos wrote: > > Hi John, > > > > Actually I'm in Texas (makes Jersy look like Paradise) > > and during oh what 9 months out of the year its hotter > > then hells kitchen (brown and ugly too). When I lived > > in New England electricity was a lot more expensive > > but leaving on the computer provided a little heat in > > the house and maybe hit my electric bill by $10 a > > month or so... not too bad. Down here during the long > > ass hot desert period its about a $50 hit (most of > > that is cooling). Not to mention you rapidly realize > > just how much heat a computer throws off > > If the computer turned all the electricity it consumed > directly into heat it could do no more than a 350 watt > space heater. That is to say, very little. (most space > heaters are 2500 watts and up). > > A 350 watt power supply seldom draws more than 100 > watts because no one burns cdroms while recording floppy > drives and exercising the harddrive to the max on a box > with every slot filled and every card pulling the max. > Just does not happen. > > But lets assume for a moment that you really could > draw 350 watts on your Mythbox 24/7. > > (That box can't consume more than 350 watts. > fuze blows if it tries.) > > .350 kilowatts for 24 hours = 8.4 kilowatt hours > > times (plug in your number) $0.13 / kwh = $1.09 > per day maximum theoretical possible. > > Times 30 days = about $33 /month. > > But since most pc power supplies are running > at about 80 watts (measured by me) even > when working hard, AND rates in Texas tend to > be closer th 8cents than they are to 13cents > http://www.puc.state.tx.us/nrelease/2000/120700.cfm , > your bill for running the above average PC 24/7 > is likely to be .08kw x 24h x 30 days x 8cents = $4.60 / month > > I think you doth protest too much. ;-) > > -- > __Jsa_ > > > ___ > mythtv-users mailing list > mythtv-users@mythtv.org > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users > > > -- GMAIL is 'da bomb babyYEAH I have GMail invites, if you want one, email me direct. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
On Thursday 17 March 2005 05:59, Charles Choukalos wrote: > Hi John, > > Actually I'm in Texas (makes Jersy look like Paradise) > and during oh what 9 months out of the year its hotter > then hells kitchen (brown and ugly too). ÂWhen I lived > in New England electricity was a lot more expensive > but leaving on the computer provided a little heat in > the house and maybe hit my electric bill by $10 a > month or so... not too bad. ÂDown here during the long > ass hot desert period its about a $50 hit (most of > that is cooling). ÂNot to mention you rapidly realize > just how much heat a computer throws off If the computer turned all the electricity it consumed directly into heat it could do no more than a 350 watt space heater. That is to say, very little. (most space heaters are 2500 watts and up). A 350 watt power supply seldom draws more than 100 watts because no one burns cdroms while recording floppy drives and exercising the harddrive to the max on a box with every slot filled and every card pulling the max. Just does not happen. But lets assume for a moment that you really could draw 350 watts on your Mythbox 24/7. (That box can't consume more than 350 watts. fuze blows if it tries.) .350 kilowatts for 24 hours = 8.4 kilowatt hours times (plug in your number) $0.13 / kwh = $1.09 per day maximum theoretical possible. Times 30 days = about $33 /month. But since most pc power supplies are running at about 80 watts (measured by me) even when working hard, AND rates in Texas tend to be closer th 8cents than they are to 13cents http://www.puc.state.tx.us/nrelease/2000/120700.cfm , your bill for running the above average PC 24/7 is likely to be .08kw x 24h x 30 days x 8cents = $4.60 / month I think you doth protest too much. ;-) -- __Jsa_ ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
[mythtv-users] Re: Energy Usage of MythBoxes
Hi John, Actually I'm in Texas (makes Jersy look like Paradise) and during oh what 9 months out of the year its hotter then hells kitchen (brown and ugly too). When I lived in New England electricity was a lot more expensive but leaving on the computer provided a little heat in the house and maybe hit my electric bill by $10 a month or so... not too bad. Down here during the long ass hot desert period its about a $50 hit (most of that is cooling). Not to mention you rapidly realize just how much heat a computer throws off (we wont even get into the space-heater monitor effects). In Europe electricity is pretty damn expensive so I imagine in even cooler climates they're seeing the same effective bill, if they're stuck near the mediteranian god help them I seem to recall A/C is a big luxury in which case they want the friggin thing off as much as possible. I'm in the same boat. I've got a Server and then one front end that's on 24/7 for the last 2 years. I really notice the bills when I'm updating the systems (ie FC1 and Myth .17 breaking...ARGH!!!) and they're down for a week or two while I try to find time to fix the bloody thing. It usually has a significant impact on my electric bill. So I've thought about how to lower the energy usage. I believe the best soln for me is to build an Opteron based server (use the 240EE chip... only 30 watts of power) with a whole bunch of spin-down SATA drives and pipe the MythTV signal over RF into my TV's. That would significantly reduce my electric bill (probabably about $50-80/mo during the hot months... maybe only $10 or so during the winter months) Just a data point for those curious. -Chuck >1. Re: Where is Jarod's guide to automatic > shutdown and restart? > (John Andersen) >2. Re: Where is Jarod's guide to automatic > shutdown and restart? > (David Whyte) > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:26:46 -0900 > From: John Andersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Where is Jarod's guide > to automatic > shutdown andrestart? > To: Discussion about mythtv > > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > On Tuesday 15 March 2005 21:43, Jarod Wilson wrote: > > On Monday 14 March 2005 04:21, Phill Edwards > wrote: > > > I went looking for this as nvram-wakeup's not > working for me any more > > > for some reason, and I remembered that Jarod > uses wake-on-lan from > > > another machine. > > > > I think you may have me confused with someone > else, I've never used WOL. > > All my boxes are just on 24x7. > > Often wondered about why people are so concerned > about WOL > for a myth box. Where is Electricity so expensive > that leaving it > on 24/7 is a problem? > > If you turn off the monitor you kill off 80% of the > electricity usage > anyway. > > I've metered boxes doing nothing. They draw squat. > Its harder on the machine being powered on and off > all the > time than it is to just leave it on. > > -- > __Jsa_ > > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
