[OT] Re: [mythtv-users] Recording Bitrates fpr PVR 350

[Michael T. Dean]

Scott Alfter wrote:


Michael T. Dean wrote:
 


Scott Alfter wrote:
   


Disk space is cheap. I just record everything at 6 Mbps and call it a day.
With ~340 GB (real gigabytes, not "salesman's gigabytes") across three 
drives, I've never run out of space.



1 gigabyte = 1GB = 1,000,000,000 bytes
1 gibibyte = 1GiB = 1,073,741,824 bytes
   


So because the hard-drive manufacturers weren't honest with their labeling,
we're supposed to use some nut's ghey alternative name?  A gigabyte is 2^30
bytes.  It always has been and always will be, and if that sounds like I'm
having a 40-rods-to-the-hogshead moment, so be it.

Actually, the problem isn't the hard drive manufacturers.  The problem 
is with the first people to call 2^10 bytes = 1024 bytes a "kilobyte," 
because--believe it or not--kilo meant 1000 long before the kilobyte.  
Ask any of those people who live in any of those countries with the 
funny base-10 measuring system (think kilogram, kilometer (or is that 
kilometre ;), ... ).


Just because the first word you heard to describe 1024 bytes was a 
kilobyte doesn't mean it's right.  I guess the International 
Electrotechnical Commision, in trying to decide on a way to 
unambiguously describe both 2^30 bytes and 10^9 bytes, decided that 
"gibibyte" and "gigabyte" sounded better than "gigabyte" and "salesman's 
gigabyte."  And, since the IEC coined these terms, other standards 
bodies--including the IEEE and NIST--have adopted them.


Mike
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Re: [mythtv-users] Recording Bitrates fpr PVR 350

[Michael T. Dean]

Philip Shead wrote:


Michael T. Dean wrote:


Scott Alfter wrote:

Disk space is cheap.  I just record everything at 6 Mbps and call it 
a day.
With ~340 GB (real gigabytes, not "salesman's gigabytes") across 
three drives,
I've never run out of space. 


1 gigabyte = 1GB = 1,000,000,000 bytes
1 gibibyte = 1GiB = 1,073,741,824 bytes 


(gibibyte as in "gigabinary") 


So, a "salesman's gigabyte" is a "real gigabyte."  I think you're 
trying to say you have ~340 "real gibibytes." 


  Too bloody right. Now if you'll excuse me one of my mythboxs
memory modules failed and I've found myth can be a struggle
with less than 536MB. Unfortunately nobody locally seems to
stock 268MB memory modules ?!


lol


(Back to myth.. are bitrates in the configuration setion in
mythtv in metric kilobytes or binary ones?)


All _should_ be "metric" in video/audio applications, just like with 
network bandwidth.  (Yes, 100Mbps is 100,000,000 bits/sec.)  (See also 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_rate (specifically under "Usage 
Notes").)  However, in some cases, the values may be passed through to 
other software (i.e. hardware encoder drivers, which themselves may pass 
the value to firmware), so ...


I have to admit, though, that I didn't dig through any source code to 
verify Myth's/ffmpeg's usage and that Google won't help with figuring it 
out (because people post information using what they think it means).  
However, since Myth is using ffmpeg--which (like Myth itself) is written 
by people who know A/V--I'm guessing it should be pretty standard for 
bitrate in most contexts.  I would guess, though, that most of the 
storage measurements are "traditional" binary-interpretations of the 
prefixes.


Wikipedia suggests that when in doubt, bit measurements should be taken 
to use "decimal" interpretations and /only/ byte measurements should 
ever be interpreted to use "binary" interpretations.  ( 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix )  As a matter of fact, it 
goes so far as to say, "Certain units are always understood as decimal 
even in computing contexts.  For example,  hertz (Hz), which is used to 
measure clock rates of electronic components, and bit/s, used to measure 
bit rate."  (Yes, this also says that your 3GHz processor runs at 
approximately 3,000,000,000 Hz.)



Someone who spent months failing to work out why his attempt
to make nice half dvd size GP mpeg4s was because he was using
metric not whilst mencoder uses binary. Now I have a nice
spreadsheet to do it for me.


In the DVD world, a 4.7GB DVD can hold 4,700,000,000 bytes (and I won't 
even get into the fact that a 700MB CD can hold approximately 700MiB of 
data...) and a DVD can hold a stream such that the sum of video, audio, 
and subpicture bitrates has a maximum of 9.8Mbps = 9,800kbps = 
9,800,000bps and the total "mux rate" has a maximum of 10.08Mbps = 
10,080kbps = 10,080,000bps and the information file plus DSI packets 
have a bitrate of 1.0Mbps = 1,000kbps = 1,000,000bps giving a total user 
data rate of 11.08Mbps = 11,080kbps = 11,080,000bps.


Of course, this doesn't help when a programmer says, "we don't need no 
stinkin' standards," and writes an A/V app to use binary interpretations 
of the prefixes.


Mike
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Re: [mythtv-users] Recording Bitrates fpr PVR 350

[Scott Alfter]

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Hash: SHA1

Michael T. Dean wrote:
> Scott Alfter wrote:
>> Disk space is cheap. I just record everything at 6 Mbps and call it a day.
>>  With ~340 GB (real gigabytes, not "salesman's gigabytes") across three 
>> drives, I've never run out of space.
>>
> 1 gigabyte = 1GB = 1,000,000,000 bytes
> 1 gibibyte = 1GiB = 1,073,741,824 bytes

So because the hard-drive manufacturers weren't honest with their labeling,
we're supposed to use some nut's ghey alternative name?  A gigabyte is 2^30
bytes.  It always has been and always will be, and if that sounds like I'm
having a 40-rods-to-the-hogshead moment, so be it.

  _/_
 / v \ Scott Alfter
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/Top-posting!
 \_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden>What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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Re: [mythtv-users] Recording Bitrates fpr PVR 350

[Philip Shead]

Michael T. Dean wrote:

Scott Alfter wrote:

Disk space is cheap.  I just record everything at 6 Mbps and call it a 
day.
With ~340 GB (real gigabytes, not "salesman's gigabytes") across three 
drives,

I've never run out of space.



1 gigabyte = 1GB = 1,000,000,000 bytes
1 gibibyte = 1GiB = 1,073,741,824 bytes



(gibibyte as in "gigabinary")


So, a "salesman's gigabyte" is a "real gigabyte."  I think you're trying 
to say you have ~340 "real gibibytes."



  Too bloody right. Now if you'll excuse me one of my mythboxs
memory modules failed and I've found myth can be a struggle
with less than 536MB. Unfortunately nobody locally seems to
stock 268MB memory modules ?!


(Back to myth.. are bitrates in the configuration setion in
mythtv in metric kilobytes or binary ones?)

--
Someone who spent months failing to work out why his attempt
to make nice half dvd size GP mpeg4s was because he was using
metric not whilst mencoder uses binary. Now I have a nice
spreadsheet to do it for me.
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Re: [mythtv-users] Recording Bitrates fpr PVR 350

[Matt Mossholder]

On Thu, 2005-12-22 at 12:54 -0500, Michael T. Dean wrote:


Matt Mossholder wrote:

> Just because one standards group decided that a group of people had 
> misused their standard after 20/30/40? years, and decided people 
> should change doesn't mean that we, as users have to listen.
>
> Standards are only as good as peoples decisions to use them.
>
> Long live 1 gigabyte = 8 * 2^30 bits!
>
> --Matt

You would make an excellent CEO of Microsoft Corp.  ;)

Mike





No way... I don't have the $2.4 million a day to pay the EU!

    --Matt


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Re: [mythtv-users] Recording Bitrates fpr PVR 350

[Michael T. Dean]

Matt Mossholder wrote:

Just because one standards group decided that a group of people had 
misused their standard after 20/30/40? years, and decided people 
should change doesn't mean that we, as users have to listen.


Standards are only as good as peoples decisions to use them.

Long live 1 gigabyte = 8 * 2^30 bits!

--Matt


You would make an excellent CEO of Microsoft Corp.  ;)

Mike


On Thu, 2005-12-22 at 12:39 -0500, Michael T. Dean wrote:


Scott Alfter wrote:


Christian Borchmann wrote:
 


what are usefull settings for recording dayli episodes of cartoon with a
pvr-350?

u choose a bitrate form 2500-3500.
   


Disk space is cheap.  I just record everything at 6 Mbps and call it a day.
With ~340 GB (real gigabytes, not "salesman's gigabytes") across three drives,
I've never run out of space.


1 gigabyte = 1GB = 1,000,000,000 bytes
1 gibibyte = 1GiB = 1,073,741,824 bytes

(gibibyte as in "gigabinary")

So, a "salesman's gigabyte" is a "real gigabyte."  I think you're trying 
to say you have ~340 "real gibibytes."


The lawyer who sued the hard drive manufacturers for false advertising 
should have sued Microsoft, instead, since it was MS Windows that made 
those bytes disappear (by calling X gibibytes X gigabytes).  Either 
that, or the hard drive manufacturers should have countersued MS for 
libel/slander (but, who can afford to sue MS).


Mike

http://physics.nist.gov/cgi-bin/cuu/Info/Units/binary.html

BTW, if you want a really annoying one, check out the prefix for the 
binary version of an exabyte (10^18 bytes).  The exbibyte (2^60 bytes) 
is hard to pronounce and makes a "learned technology professional" sound 
like a babbling idiot.  (And, no, I didn't misspell it.)  The others are 
just fun, though--the looks you get when you use the words in 
conversation are priceless.

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Re: [mythtv-users] Recording Bitrates fpr PVR 350

[Matt Mossholder]

Just because one standards group decided that a group of people had misused their standard after 20/30/40? years, and decided people should change doesn't mean that we, as users have to listen.

Standards are only as good as peoples decisions to use them.

Long live 1 gigabyte = 8 * 2^30 bits!

    --Matt



On Thu, 2005-12-22 at 12:39 -0500, Michael T. Dean wrote:


Scott Alfter wrote:

>Christian Borchmann wrote:
>  
>
>>what are usefull settings for recording dayli episodes of cartoon with a
>>pvr-350?
>>
>>u choose a bitrate form 2500-3500.
>>
>>
>Disk space is cheap.  I just record everything at 6 Mbps and call it a day.
>With ~340 GB (real gigabytes, not "salesman's gigabytes") across three drives,
>I've never run out of space.
>
1 gigabyte = 1GB = 1,000,000,000 bytes
1 gibibyte = 1GiB = 1,073,741,824 bytes

(gibibyte as in "gigabinary")

So, a "salesman's gigabyte" is a "real gigabyte."  I think you're trying 
to say you have ~340 "real gibibytes."

The lawyer who sued the hard drive manufacturers for false advertising 
should have sued Microsoft, instead, since it was MS Windows that made 
those bytes disappear (by calling X gibibytes X gigabytes).  Either 
that, or the hard drive manufacturers should have countersued MS for 
libel/slander (but, who can afford to sue MS).

Mike

http://physics.nist.gov/cgi-bin/cuu/Info/Units/binary.html

BTW, if you want a really annoying one, check out the prefix for the 
binary version of an exabyte (10^18 bytes).  The exbibyte (2^60 bytes) 
is hard to pronounce and makes a "learned technology professional" sound 
like a babbling idiot.  (And, no, I didn't misspell it.)  The others are 
just fun, though--the looks you get when you use the words in 
conversation are priceless.
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Re: [mythtv-users] Recording Bitrates fpr PVR 350

[Michael T. Dean]

Scott Alfter wrote:


Christian Borchmann wrote:
 


what are usefull settings for recording dayli episodes of cartoon with a
pvr-350?

u choose a bitrate form 2500-3500.
   


Disk space is cheap.  I just record everything at 6 Mbps and call it a day.
With ~340 GB (real gigabytes, not "salesman's gigabytes") across three drives,
I've never run out of space.


1 gigabyte = 1GB = 1,000,000,000 bytes
1 gibibyte = 1GiB = 1,073,741,824 bytes

(gibibyte as in "gigabinary")

So, a "salesman's gigabyte" is a "real gigabyte."  I think you're trying 
to say you have ~340 "real gibibytes."


The lawyer who sued the hard drive manufacturers for false advertising 
should have sued Microsoft, instead, since it was MS Windows that made 
those bytes disappear (by calling X gibibytes X gigabytes).  Either 
that, or the hard drive manufacturers should have countersued MS for 
libel/slander (but, who can afford to sue MS).


Mike

http://physics.nist.gov/cgi-bin/cuu/Info/Units/binary.html

BTW, if you want a really annoying one, check out the prefix for the 
binary version of an exabyte (10^18 bytes).  The exbibyte (2^60 bytes) 
is hard to pronounce and makes a "learned technology professional" sound 
like a babbling idiot.  (And, no, I didn't misspell it.)  The others are 
just fun, though--the looks you get when you use the words in 
conversation are priceless.
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Re: [mythtv-users] Recording Bitrates fpr PVR 350

[Scott Alfter]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Christian Borchmann wrote:
> what are usefull settings for recording dayli episodes of cartoon with a
> pvr-350?
> 
> u choose a bitrate form 2500-3500.

Disk space is cheap.  I just record everything at 6 Mbps and call it a day.
With ~340 GB (real gigabytes, not "salesman's gigabytes") across three drives,
I've never run out of space.  Stuff I want to save gets archived to DVD; other
stuff gets auto-deleted to keep a few episodes of each show on hand.  With most
of what I watch, if I don't get around to watching it the first time around,
it'll probably be on again before too long.

(Fry's recently had a 400GB Seagate with 8 MB cache for ~$170 after rebate.
The same drive with 16 MB cache, if you wanted that, was $10 more.)

  _/_
 / v \ Scott Alfter
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/Top-posting!
 \_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden>What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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RE: [mythtv-users] Recording Bitrates fpr PVR 350

[William]

> Hallo,
> 
> what are usefull settings for recording dayli episodes of 
> cartoon with a 
> pvr-350?
> 
> u choose a bitrate form 2500-3500.
> 
> good or bad idea?

Personally I would record at a bit higher rate (5000-6000) and then
transcode them much smaller and enjoy the quality of the recording. You
might just get a hi-def tv someday and you will thank yourself. If you are
just watching and deleting then whatever rate looks good is good enough.


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Re: [mythtv-users] Recording Bitrates fpr PVR 350

[Michael T. Dean]

Christian Borchmann wrote:

what are usefull settings for recording dayli episodes of cartoon with 
a pvr-350?


u choose a bitrate form 2500-3500.

good or bad idea?


IMHO, if it looks good to you, it's good.

Mike
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