Re: [mythtv-users] Nvidia DVI vs ATI
Hmmm. I thought they could do 1080i in other non-free OSes, so I bet it's not a hardware limitation. I mean, they say they can do 2048x1526 (or more depending on the card) over vga. A linux driver issue is possiable, though (which might include firmware if that is loaded by the driver.) I'd give it a try, but I don't yet have a device with a dvi connection. -Nate On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 01:05:07 -0800, Brad Templeton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 07:13:17PM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 12:32:19PM -0800, nate s wrote: > > > > But yes, I would like to see DVI working from linux. I mean I have > > > > seen it (With a Radeon 9200se) but the drivers can't go more than 1600 > > > > wide for xvideo as of now, and the proprietary drivers are limited to > > > > older kernels than I have, or so they say.. > > > > > > I haven't heard anything about ati's drivers not running on new > > > kernels. I'm currently running ati-drivers 3.14.6 on 2.6.9-nitro4 > > > > I'm trying to get this working on my machine which was running 3.9.0 > > just fine; .14.6 is giving me a blue band where the video belongs. > > > > Xvideo is there, according to xdpyinfo; no untoward messages in the > > logs; aspect matches properly; could it be putting it on the wrong > > display? > > A thread I read elsewhere suggested there is some actual limitation > in the hardware at 1600 pixels wide, even though the software is > claiming it can do wider, thus the bright band on the right hand side. > > Is that what you are getting? > > I don't know if the limitation is firmware or what. If it's hardware, > then these cards are no good for 1080i. > > > ___ > mythtv-users mailing list > mythtv-users@mythtv.org > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users > > > ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Nvidia DVI vs ATI
On Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 07:13:17PM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > On Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 12:32:19PM -0800, nate s wrote: > > > But yes, I would like to see DVI working from linux. I mean I have > > > seen it (With a Radeon 9200se) but the drivers can't go more than 1600 > > > wide for xvideo as of now, and the proprietary drivers are limited to > > > older kernels than I have, or so they say.. > > > > I haven't heard anything about ati's drivers not running on new > > kernels. I'm currently running ati-drivers 3.14.6 on 2.6.9-nitro4 > > I'm trying to get this working on my machine which was running 3.9.0 > just fine; .14.6 is giving me a blue band where the video belongs. > > Xvideo is there, according to xdpyinfo; no untoward messages in the > logs; aspect matches properly; could it be putting it on the wrong > display? A thread I read elsewhere suggested there is some actual limitation in the hardware at 1600 pixels wide, even though the software is claiming it can do wider, thus the bright band on the right hand side. Is that what you are getting? I don't know if the limitation is firmware or what. If it's hardware, then these cards are no good for 1080i. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Nvidia DVI vs ATI
On Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 12:32:19PM -0800, nate s wrote: > > But yes, I would like to see DVI working from linux. I mean I have > > seen it (With a Radeon 9200se) but the drivers can't go more than 1600 > > wide for xvideo as of now, and the proprietary drivers are limited to > > older kernels than I have, or so they say.. > > I haven't heard anything about ati's drivers not running on new > kernels. I'm currently running ati-drivers 3.14.6 on 2.6.9-nitro4 I'm trying to get this working on my machine which was running 3.9.0 just fine; .14.6 is giving me a blue band where the video belongs. Xvideo is there, according to xdpyinfo; no untoward messages in the logs; aspect matches properly; could it be putting it on the wrong display? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL PROTECTED] Designer Baylink RFC 2100 Ashworth & AssociatesThe Things I Think'87 e24 St Petersburg FL USA http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 If you can read this... thank a system adminstrator. Or two. --me ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Nvidia DVI vs ATI
On Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 12:32:19PM -0800, nate s wrote: > > But yes, I would like to see DVI working from linux. I mean I have > > seen it (With a Radeon 9200se) but the drivers can't go more than 1600 > > wide for xvideo as of now, and the proprietary drivers are limited to > > older kernels than I have, or so they say.. > > > I haven't heard anything about ati's drivers not running on new > kernels. I'm currently running ati-drivers 3.14.6 on 2.6.9-nitro4 > good news then. their web site, at least recently, said that 2.6 support was "in the works." does their proprietary driver support xvideo 1920 wide? On the free driver you get a big purple bar on the right side. And sometimes reversed colour. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
RE: [mythtv-users] Nvidia DVI vs ATI
Not too long ago they stated these only worked on 2.4 kernels. Are you using Xorg? What distro are you using? -Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nate s Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 2:32 PM To: Discussion about mythtv Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Nvidia DVI vs ATI > But yes, I would like to see DVI working from linux. I mean I have > seen it (With a Radeon 9200se) but the drivers can't go more than 1600 > wide for xvideo as of now, and the proprietary drivers are limited to > older kernels than I have, or so they say.. I haven't heard anything about ati's drivers not running on new kernels. I'm currently running ati-drivers 3.14.6 on 2.6.9-nitro4 -Nate ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Nvidia DVI vs ATI
> But yes, I would like to see DVI working from linux. I mean I have > seen it (With a Radeon 9200se) but the drivers can't go more than 1600 > wide for xvideo as of now, and the proprietary drivers are limited to > older kernels than I have, or so they say.. I haven't heard anything about ati's drivers not running on new kernels. I'm currently running ati-drivers 3.14.6 on 2.6.9-nitro4 -Nate ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Nvidia DVI vs ATI
On Mon, Dec 20, 2004 at 05:51:31AM +, Simon Williams wrote: > output at 1080i or 1080p from this card. I have found a not > unreasonably priced fanless 6800 from gigabyte. Its more than I would > have thought to spend on just a PVR but with a powerful card like this > I think UT2K4 would look excellent on my TV so its not out of the > realms of justification. Yikes, that's a $300 card. You can build a lot of system for that. > > However can anybody with any certainty say that this fault/issue is > due to the TMDS on the card and not the Nvidia driver. I wish I knew, I haven't tried the cards. If I were not so frustrated I would go and buy the various other DVI cards -- mx4000, mx440, 5500 and such from a store that lets you take them back, and see if any of them work. > > If the driver is capable then I may seriously consider the 6800 as an > option. If not then I'll have to look elsewhere. The audio authority box can be had for $110 new, though it's not digital all the way of course. However, it does work with the 5200 card driving a TV at 1080i. But yes, I would like to see DVI working from linux. I mean I have seen it (With a Radeon 9200se) but the drivers can't go more than 1600 wide for xvideo as of now, and the proprietary drivers are limited to older kernels than I have, or so they say.. ___ mythtv-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Nvidia DVI vs ATI
Ok so some hours spent testing various modelines via analogue and digital has revealed that it is definitely not possible to get DVI-D output at 1080i or 1080p from this card. I have found a not unreasonably priced fanless 6800 from gigabyte. Its more than I would have thought to spend on just a PVR but with a powerful card like this I think UT2K4 would look excellent on my TV so its not out of the realms of justification. However can anybody with any certainty say that this fault/issue is due to the TMDS on the card and not the Nvidia driver. The "nv" xfree86/xorg driver doesn't seem to switch in digital output on my card at all so confirming card Vs driver is somewhat difficult. If the driver is capable then I may seriously consider the 6800 as an option. If not then I'll have to look elsewhere. ___ mythtv-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Nvidia DVI vs ATI
I've never been able to get 1080i working using DVI either. Its ends up looking "choppy." I'm hoping they'll fix this in a driver release one of these days ... Brad Templeton wrote: On Sat, Dec 18, 2004 at 06:20:38PM +, Simon Williams wrote: The image the DVI-D connection produces ( valid modeline ) appears as if the interlaced fields are shifted vertically out of alignment. With one field displaying 10-15 lines higher than the other. On my search for a card that will do 1080i via DVI-D I can across the SIS chipset which has some excellent drivers provided by Thomas Winishhofer ( http://www.winischhofer.at/linuxsisvga.shtml ) his driver has in-built modelines for this purpose. Tracking down an SiS card with DVI is however proving to be a challenge. Finally, after I ask in 1000 places and nobody knows a thing about it, somebody has the same problem I have had with the FX5200 and a DVD player. However, what made me beat my head for a long time was that I was able to get the card to display 1080i over DVI to my HDTV under Windows using the Powerstrip program. So it is _possible_ to get the card to do this, but it does not seem to be doable under linux. You want DVI on a card, it does seem the most common choices are NVidia (with this problem) or ATI (with major driver problems and possible inability to do xvideo at more than 1600 wide). I have a number-9 DVI card using a Savage chipset, but it is, alas, the old 3.5 AGP and I can't plug it into any of the systems I have which are fast enough to do HDTV. The SIS drivers you point to do not mention xvmc. I guess I don't need it with the 3ghz CPU, but it would still be nice. The question is, is it only the 5200 that has this DVI problem? Have people seen or not seen it with other NVidia chips, such as MX4000, MX400 series, or higher end NVidia? It seems a waste to buy a fancy gamer's vga card and not use any of it. Shuttle sells a cheap ($20) DVI adapter card for their systems that use the Sis 315 chipset. It fits in their AGP slot, but I am not sure, is it an actual video card, or is it just an adapter that talks to the chipset on the Shuttle XPC motherboard. It also has TV-out. It scares me though because it says "Max Resolution 1280x1024" I ended up solving my problem the hard way -- with the audio authority VGA to DVI converter. It works, but due to going analog there is some noise. There is an MX4000 card with DVI out for $42 at buy.com, but I have had other bad luck with the blue xvideo bug on the mx4000. Also seen a Volari V3 card for $45 at Tiger Direct, anybody tried that. ___ mythtv-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
RE: [mythtv-users] Nvidia DVI vs ATI
> Also seen a Volari V3 card for $45 at Tiger Direct, anybody tried that. I've been watching the Volari V3. Here's the readme for the driver for Linux (the driver hasn't been updated since Sept): Volari V3 Linux Readme :Update -2004-0815 FAQ: ...clip... 4.Major Known Issues Ans: All drivers will work on CRT only. CRT only would mean, by my interpretation, the drivers don't support the DVI out? Too bad, this card seems perfect for a DVI out Myth box. Steve ___ mythtv-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Nvidia DVI vs ATI
On Sat, Dec 18, 2004 at 06:20:38PM +, Simon Williams wrote: > The image the DVI-D connection produces ( valid modeline ) appears as > if the interlaced fields are shifted vertically out of alignment. With > one field displaying 10-15 lines higher than the other. > > On my search for a card that will do 1080i via DVI-D I can across the > SIS chipset which has some excellent drivers provided by Thomas > Winishhofer ( http://www.winischhofer.at/linuxsisvga.shtml ) his > driver has in-built modelines for this purpose. Tracking down an SiS > card with DVI is however proving to be a challenge. > Finally, after I ask in 1000 places and nobody knows a thing about it, somebody has the same problem I have had with the FX5200 and a DVD player. However, what made me beat my head for a long time was that I was able to get the card to display 1080i over DVI to my HDTV under Windows using the Powerstrip program. So it is _possible_ to get the card to do this, but it does not seem to be doable under linux. You want DVI on a card, it does seem the most common choices are NVidia (with this problem) or ATI (with major driver problems and possible inability to do xvideo at more than 1600 wide). I have a number-9 DVI card using a Savage chipset, but it is, alas, the old 3.5 AGP and I can't plug it into any of the systems I have which are fast enough to do HDTV. The SIS drivers you point to do not mention xvmc. I guess I don't need it with the 3ghz CPU, but it would still be nice. The question is, is it only the 5200 that has this DVI problem? Have people seen or not seen it with other NVidia chips, such as MX4000, MX400 series, or higher end NVidia? It seems a waste to buy a fancy gamer's vga card and not use any of it. Shuttle sells a cheap ($20) DVI adapter card for their systems that use the Sis 315 chipset. It fits in their AGP slot, but I am not sure, is it an actual video card, or is it just an adapter that talks to the chipset on the Shuttle XPC motherboard. It also has TV-out. It scares me though because it says "Max Resolution 1280x1024" I ended up solving my problem the hard way -- with the audio authority VGA to DVI converter. It works, but due to going analog there is some noise. There is an MX4000 card with DVI out for $42 at buy.com, but I have had other bad luck with the blue xvideo bug on the mx4000. Also seen a Volari V3 card for $45 at Tiger Direct, anybody tried that. ___ mythtv-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Nvidia DVI vs ATI
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:36:42 -0800, nate s <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Agreed. In posting that, I didn't mean to be doing any > scaremongering. I mostly found it to be usefull information on the > DVI spec. > > I don't at all think that people should shun nvidia and buy only ati > cards for dvi now, indeed, I think nvidia cards have better drivers, > and thus may be a better option. If you're planning a setup with long > cable runs and/or high resolution, you might look for an nvidia card > with an external dvi chip, as they seem to be better than the one in > the gpu. > > Another thing that may affect things is how good the chip in the > display is at decoding a bad signal. > > -Nate > I agree that Nvidia have much better drivers than their ATI counterparts and for linux pretty muchh the best choice you can make is an nvidia card. However further to my 1080i LCD arriving, I got the chance to try DVI-D on the Nvidia 5200 w/256mb ram. ( Gainward ). For reference purposes this card does NOT do 1080 via dvi-d. It will do it from the VGA port but if you want a digital solution this is not the card to get. Thats not too say that other manufacturers of this card haven't done a better implementation which can. The image the DVI-D connection produces ( valid modeline ) appears as if the interlaced fields are shifted vertically out of alignment. With one field displaying 10-15 lines higher than the other. On my search for a card that will do 1080i via DVI-D I can across the SIS chipset which has some excellent drivers provided by Thomas Winishhofer ( http://www.winischhofer.at/linuxsisvga.shtml ) his driver has in-built modelines for this purpose. Tracking down an SiS card with DVI is however proving to be a challenge. Simon. ___ mythtv-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Nvidia DVI vs ATI
Agreed. In posting that, I didn't mean to be doing any scaremongering. I mostly found it to be usefull information on the DVI spec. I don't at all think that people should shun nvidia and buy only ati cards for dvi now, indeed, I think nvidia cards have better drivers, and thus may be a better option. If you're planning a setup with long cable runs and/or high resolution, you might look for an nvidia card with an external dvi chip, as they seem to be better than the one in the gpu. Another thing that may affect things is how good the chip in the display is at decoding a bad signal. -Nate On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 23:53:14 +1100, Hamish Moffatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Dec 09, 2004 at 10:35:16PM -0800, nate s wrote: > > While that's true, that all of the eye diagrams showed were ok, the > > ones with the on-chip nvidia were shown at 141mhz, because they were > > not compliant at 162mhz. This of course only matters at very high > > resolutions. > > ... and on long cables. They didn't say how they looked at 162 MHz. > They may still have been just fine, if technically out of spec. > > > Hamish > -- > Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > ___ > mythtv-users mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users > > > ___ mythtv-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Nvidia DVI vs ATI
On Thu, Dec 09, 2004 at 10:35:16PM -0800, nate s wrote: > While that's true, that all of the eye diagrams showed were ok, the > ones with the on-chip nvidia were shown at 141mhz, because they were > not compliant at 162mhz. This of course only matters at very high > resolutions. ... and on long cables. They didn't say how they looked at 162 MHz. They may still have been just fine, if technically out of spec. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ mythtv-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Nvidia DVI vs ATI
While that's true, that all of the eye diagrams showed were ok, the ones with the on-chip nvidia were shown at 141mhz, because they were not compliant at 162mhz. This of course only matters at very high resolutions. -Nate On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 00:03:53 +1100, Hamish Moffatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, Dec 06, 2004 at 09:02:34AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > After reading the article re. DVI compliance... > > > > So it looks like ATI cards are working better than NVidia for DVI. I am > > looking > > to by a TV that takes DVI and I am concerned about the compliance of Nvidia > > cards. Are the ATI cards supported at all? I have always used Nvidia with > > no > > problems. > > > > Thoughts? Experiences? > > I read the article and I think there's a bit of scaremongering going on. > > Did you see the eye diagrams? They are all perfect, though the article > says some of them are nearly out of specification. > > The specification will ensure that you still get a workable picture over > an X metre long cable; if you keep it short, it won't matter if you > card IS out of spec. > > The NVIDIA cards with the off-board SIL164 transmitter chip seemed to do > better than the ones using the built-in transmitter in the GeforceFX > (especially obvious on the card with one of each, the MSI NX6800 > Ultra), so if you are concerned, look for a card with that chip. > I expect it'll only be on the more expensive cards though. > > Hamish > -- > Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > ___ > mythtv-users mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users > > > ___ mythtv-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Nvidia DVI vs ATI
On Mon, Dec 06, 2004 at 09:02:34AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > After reading the article re. DVI compliance... > > So it looks like ATI cards are working better than NVidia for DVI. I am > looking > to by a TV that takes DVI and I am concerned about the compliance of Nvidia > cards. Are the ATI cards supported at all? I have always used Nvidia with no > problems. > > Thoughts? Experiences? I read the article and I think there's a bit of scaremongering going on. Did you see the eye diagrams? They are all perfect, though the article says some of them are nearly out of specification. The specification will ensure that you still get a workable picture over an X metre long cable; if you keep it short, it won't matter if you card IS out of spec. The NVIDIA cards with the off-board SIL164 transmitter chip seemed to do better than the ones using the built-in transmitter in the GeforceFX (especially obvious on the card with one of each, the MSI NX6800 Ultra), so if you are concerned, look for a card with that chip. I expect it'll only be on the more expensive cards though. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ mythtv-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
