Re: [Nagios-users] The icinga on the cake ...
Hi, On 5/7/09 5:18 PM, Jim Avery wrote: > I'm surprised nobody's mentioned this yet... > > http://www.icinga.org/ > > I only noticed it myself when I visited Nagios Exchange today. > > Not being a developer myself, I'm not quite sure what to say or think, > except that I'm continuously deeply grateful to everyone who bring us > Nagios itself, and the plugins and tools which make it greater than > the sum of its parts. You should subscribe to nagios-devel. There's some discussions going there. :) -- Mathieu -- The NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanners deliver under ANY circumstances! Your production scanning environment may not be a perfect world - but thanks to Kodak, there's a perfect scanner to get the job done! With the NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanner you'll get full speed at 300 dpi even with all image processing features enabled. http://p.sf.net/sfu/kodak-com ___ Nagios-users mailing list Nagios-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nagios-users ::: Please include Nagios version, plugin version (-v) and OS when reporting any issue. ::: Messages without supporting info will risk being sent to /dev/null
Re: [Nagios-users] The icinga on the cake ...
Hi all. First of all, let me say I'm not writing this post for Ethan's sake, but because I'm a member of the Nagios Community Advisory board and I feel this is information the community should take part of. Secondly, Ethan's under quite a bit of stress right now. If anybody wants to cheer him up, send him a postcard or a picture of a screen showing Nagios. He told me once it would be quite cool to get such postcards but he never found an opportunity to ask for it. I can't think of a better time than now ;-) The address to Nagios Enterprises is Nagios Enterprises, LLC P.O. Box 8154 Saint Paul, MN 55108 Now read on and, in the words of The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy: Don't panic. Jim Avery wrote: > I'm surprised nobody's mentioned this yet... > > http://www.icinga.org/ > > I only noticed it myself when I visited Nagios Exchange today. > > Not being a developer myself, I'm not quite sure what to say or think, It's really the input from the community that matters the most. I *am* a developer, and as a developer I applaud the effort to create a better product, but as a human being I really don't like the way it's being done. It's been discussed quite a lot on the nagios-devel mailing list. The facts so far seems to be thus: * Netways registered "Nagios" as a trademark in Germany last year. * The Icinga team is managed by Bernd Erk, who is also the chief programmer of Netways (to me, this makes it seem as if Netways instigated the fork). * Ethan has been absent from the community for too long, stating legal issues against Netways for trademark violation as the reason for this. * The primary reason stated for the fork is that the Icinga team feel that development isn't being done openly enough. * Some german nagios-tribute sites claim to have received email from Nagios Enterprises requesting that they add a paragraph on their page stating that they're not affiliated with Nagios Enterprises in any way, and this has caused bad blood in the community (I have no details about this, and can therefore not give any). * The icinga team has released no sources (ie, making a *worse* mistake than they feel Ethan is doing, who at least keeps his source repo publically available). * The roadmap for Icinga focuses mainly on 3rd party addons that could easily have been created *without* forking. * Some prominent developers and community members (no, I won't give names, but I'm one of them) think this is primarily an attempt from Netways to usurp the Nagios community. * The german community developers that have responded on the nagios-devel list seem honest about their desire to create a better product. * The development method of the Nagios core *will* change in some way. More on that later in this mail. Later, it appears, is now. So far, we ("we" being originally me and Ethan, and two emails later the community advisory board, which presently consists of Ethan, myself, Ton Voon, Alex Burger and Thomas Guyot-Sionnest) have discussed (nothing is decided) increasing the number of people with commit access to the nagios core repository. I have been asked to join this team, and I've suggested two others whom I feel can add value to the development process. I won't name any names since neither have accepted or declined yet. Me and Ton Voon argued that it would be a good idea to have all tecnical and socio-technical (ie, patch-submission alternatives) on nagios-devel instead of on a hidden list where a large part of the community have no insight into the development process. Ethan hasn't responded to this yet, but that's not so surprising as it was 2AM in Minnesota when me and Ton wrote our emails, and it's currently 5AM (I think). >From what I've gathered from the discussions, it seems we agree on incorporating Icinga patches into Nagios if they hold good quality and add value to Nagios. Since many of the developers on the Icinga team are quite good programmers, this should benefit Nagios rather quickly. To make it easier to incorporate patches from the Icinga team, we have also discussed moving the core Nagios repository to git from CVS. Read- only users won't necessarily see any changes at all, as there already exists a cvs-server capable of serving git repositories. For tarball users and software distributions, it has zero impact. Anything apart from the above that's been going on is either loose speculation, bad research or misunderstanding on my behalf or relates to information I haven't seen. I may also have missed something, in which case I'm sure someone will point out my mistakes. > except that I'm continuously deeply grateful to everyone who bring us > Nagios itself, and the plugins and tools which make it greater than > the sum of its parts. > Don't be. Well, be, but reserve some gratitude for yourself for using it. Without a userbase, a project is just an academic exercise with as much real value as a bucket of sand in a desert. Oh, and send a postcard :) -- Andre
Re: [Nagios-users] The icinga on the cake ...
> Not being a developer myself, I'm not quite sure what to say or think, > except that I'm continuously deeply grateful to everyone who bring us > Nagios itself, and the plugins and tools which make it greater than > the sum of its parts. This is, IMHO, one of the greatest problems with open source development. Too much bickering, splintering and forking dilutes the value of the product. It's unfortunate that the main nagios devs and these icinga people could not work together to simply improve the existing code base. There are a lot of great features that could be added to nagios, yet it feels like development on some of these major features has been very slw. Ethan, if you're reading this, cheer up mate. You are sitting on a virtual gold mine. Nagios is hands-down the best network monitoring system available, you should be minting money selling support contracts for it. If you aren't then hire some good salespeople to sell your support contracts and maybe a find good web developer to give the GUI an upgrade! -- The NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanners deliver under ANY circumstances! Your production scanning environment may not be a perfect world - but thanks to Kodak, there's a perfect scanner to get the job done! With the NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanner you'll get full speed at 300 dpi even with all image processing features enabled. http://p.sf.net/sfu/kodak-com ___ Nagios-users mailing list Nagios-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nagios-users ::: Please include Nagios version, plugin version (-v) and OS when reporting any issue. ::: Messages without supporting info will risk being sent to /dev/null
Re: [Nagios-users] The icinga on the cake ...
2009/5/8 Sean Carolan : > This is, IMHO, one of the greatest problems with open source > development. Too much bickering, splintering and forking dilutes the > value of the product. Yeah, because out of all of the commercial closed source development projects I've worked on, none of them have ever had bickering, splintering, forking or anything else horrible go on with them. .r' -- The NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanners deliver under ANY circumstances! Your production scanning environment may not be a perfect world - but thanks to Kodak, there's a perfect scanner to get the job done! With the NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanner you'll get full speed at 300 dpi even with all image processing features enabled. http://p.sf.net/sfu/kodak-com ___ Nagios-users mailing list Nagios-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nagios-users ::: Please include Nagios version, plugin version (-v) and OS when reporting any issue. ::: Messages without supporting info will risk being sent to /dev/null
Re: [Nagios-users] The icinga on the cake ...
Sean Carolan wrote: >> Not being a developer myself, I'm not quite sure what to say or think, >> except that I'm continuously deeply grateful to everyone who bring us >> Nagios itself, and the plugins and tools which make it greater than >> the sum of its parts. > > This is, IMHO, one of the greatest problems with open source > development. Too much bickering, splintering and forking dilutes the > value of the product. Personally, I think you're wrong. GCC (one of the most portable and portability-friendly compiler collections in the world) "suffered" a big fat fork in 1997, and it ended up being extremely good for the project. The X windowing system *remains* forked into at least 4 different schisms. Right now, it looks as if X.org is winning. A few years ago, everyone used XFree86. > It's unfortunate that the main nagios devs and > these icinga people could not work together to simply improve the > existing code base. There are a lot of great features that could be > added to nagios, yet it feels like development on some of these major > features has been very slw. > True. That's a major complaint of the forkees too. The majorest (err..) is that development hasn't been open enough though. Ethan and some other prominent community members are working on fixing that. I'm guessing info regarding that will be publicly available on monday afternoon, European time. > Ethan, if you're reading this, cheer up mate. You are sitting on a > virtual gold mine. Nagios is hands-down the best network monitoring > system available, you should be minting money selling support > contracts for it. If you aren't then hire some good salespeople to > sell your support contracts and maybe a find good web developer to > give the GUI an upgrade! > I agree about the GUI. Rumor has it that discussions are under way to solve that too very shortly. Ethan will send something out very early next week (not "he may do so" or "I hope he will do so"; He *will* do so, or I'll go to minnesota and thump him on the head). The email he'll send out will contain, among other things, his future plans to make Nagios development move along faster. Possibly, there'll be something about GUI discussions in there as well. It's friday night here (2:32 AM), and I really don't know everything. This time, I feel confident that noone will be disappointed when I say: "Just wait and see. There may be pumpkins in it." /Andreas -- The NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanners deliver under ANY circumstances! Your production scanning environment may not be a perfect world - but thanks to Kodak, there's a perfect scanner to get the job done! With the NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanner you'll get full speed at 300 dpi even with all image processing features enabled. http://p.sf.net/sfu/kodak-com ___ Nagios-users mailing list Nagios-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nagios-users ::: Please include Nagios version, plugin version (-v) and OS when reporting any issue. ::: Messages without supporting info will risk being sent to /dev/null
Re: [Nagios-users] The icinga on the cake ...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sean Carolan wrote: >> Not being a developer myself, I'm not quite sure what to say or think, >> except that I'm continuously deeply grateful to everyone who bring us >> Nagios itself, and the plugins and tools which make it greater than >> the sum of its parts. > > This is, IMHO, one of the greatest problems with open source > development. Too much bickering, splintering and forking dilutes the > value of the product. It's unfortunate that the main nagios devs and It's also one of the biggest strengths of open source development and the FOSS community. Don't like the way a closed source product does something? Well 90% of the time you have to suck it up. Don't like the way an open source product does something? Well write some code, submit a patch, maintain your own branch, or even fork if you want. Me - I like options. Regards James Turnbull - -- Author of: * Pro Linux Systems Administration (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1430219122/) * Pulling Strings with Puppet (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590599780/) * Pro Nagios 2.0 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590596099/) * Hardening Linux (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159059/) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkoH0QUACgkQ9hTGvAxC30B/8QCgmMN1miKZb0QG2+P1Obl2Pd7n pG8An3bwi6r3zOXkZghObYKa9MccEoKd =HiCZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- The NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanners deliver under ANY circumstances! Your production scanning environment may not be a perfect world - but thanks to Kodak, there's a perfect scanner to get the job done! With the NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanner you'll get full speed at 300 dpi even with all image processing features enabled. http://p.sf.net/sfu/kodak-com ___ Nagios-users mailing list Nagios-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nagios-users ::: Please include Nagios version, plugin version (-v) and OS when reporting any issue. ::: Messages without supporting info will risk being sent to /dev/null