RE: Protected message
Re: Publish or (gulp) Perish
>well, a copy of "the bell technical journal" with the first >paper describing unix is on my shelf. On my bookshelf too. I believe this was more of a "technical reports" series than a referreed journal since it contained only work being done by the one organization. A lot of universities and research labs also publish a "technical reports" series that describes work whichj may or may not make its way into journals and conference proceedings. Would it be better to think of a way that NANOG could publish a series of NANOG Technical Reports rather than a journal? This seems to be the ideal way to formalize work that is supposed to focus on the here and now by describing stuff that is operationally useful no more than 6 months into the future. Then we would have an archive of NANOG presentations, associated NANOG Technical Reports and the occasional pointer to a journal paper when the author takes their work to that stage. --Michael Dillon
Re: disabling SMTP
when smtp fixup is on (default on many older pixes, i gather that there may be some improvements on newer pixes), the smtp banner is mostly obscured by * characters. the intent is a classic security by obscurity play, to hide the type and verison of the MTA behind the pix. Okay, so this is a problem when an SMTP server is hosted behind the PIX? I thought the fixup statements were for outbound connections, and with it on right now I get the full banner from SMTP servers. I don't host an SMTP server myself, so can't check that. Rob Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: disabling SMTP
At 07:20 AM 3/29/2004, Rob Nelson wrote: when smtp fixup is on (default on many older pixes, i gather that there may be some improvements on newer pixes), the smtp banner is mostly obscured by * characters. the intent is a classic security by obscurity play, to hide the type and verison of the MTA behind the pix. Okay, so this is a problem when an SMTP server is hosted behind the PIX? I thought the fixup statements were for outbound connections, and with it on right now I get the full banner from SMTP servers. I don't host an SMTP server myself, so can't check that. SMTP fixup is for hosts behind the firewall. That is after all what it's trying to protect (in theory) by mangling the SMTP protocol. :) Vinny Abello Network Engineer Server Management [EMAIL PROTECTED] (973)300-9211 x 125 (973)940-6125 (Direct) PGP Key Fingerprint: 3BC5 9A48 FC78 03D3 82E0 E935 5325 FBCB 0100 977A Tellurian Networks - The Ultimate Internet Connection http://www.tellurian.com (888)TELLURIAN There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those that don't.
Re: disabling SMTP
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 07:20:47 -0500 Rob Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Richard Welty wrote: > >when smtp fixup is on (default on many older pixes, i gather that there > >may be some improvements on newer pixes), the smtp banner > >is mostly obscured by * characters. the intent is a classic security > >by obscurity play, to hide the type and verison of the MTA behind > >the pix. > Okay, so this is a problem when an SMTP server is hosted behind the PIX? yes. > I > thought the fixup statements were for outbound connections, and with it on > right now I get the full banner from SMTP servers. I don't host an SMTP > server myself, so can't check that. nope, they mangle inbound connections too. in addition to the banner obscuration, i (and others) have seen patterns of intermittant, arbitrary disconnections of SMTP sessions when fixup is turned on. this is harder to diagnose, though, because there is a TCP bug in some variants of Outlook that causes similar behavior. those of us running exim as an MTA a couple of revs back had to patch our installs to work around the Outlook TCP bug. i believe that patch is now permanently part of exim, as it is unlikely that the Outlook bug will ever entirely go away. richard -- Richard Welty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Averill Park Networking 518-573-7592 Java, PHP, PostgreSQL, Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security
Re: disabling SMTP
[3/29/2004 6:00 PM] Richard Welty : to the banner obscuration, i (and others) have seen patterns of intermittant, arbitrary disconnections of SMTP sessions when fixup is turned on. this is harder to diagnose, though, because there is a TCP bug in some Older pixes had a major issue with MTU path discovery that'd cause email to be repeatedly resent. http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/postfix/2001-06/1198.html for example. -- srs (postmaster|suresh)@outblaze.com // gpg : EDEDEFB9 manager, outblaze.com security and antispam operations
RE: CCO goes down the tubes
> Maybe I'm the only one left who sees a need to be > able to check on things from a vt100 at a remote site. You are not. A telnet version without all the fluffy bullshit would be more than welcome. Michel.
Telus Vancouver/Burnaby contact?
Could somebody from Telus (preferably the Vancouver/Burnaby office) please contact me off-list? This is in regards to CRTC decisions 1995-15, 1996-1484, 2000-13 and most importantly 2003-54.
RE: CCO goes down the tubes
At 6:58 AM -0800 3/29/04, Michel Py wrote: > Maybe I'm the only one left who sees a need to be able to check on things from a vt100 at a remote site. You are not. A telnet version without all the fluffy bullshit would be more than welcome. I suppose it's trivial in the grand scheme of things, but on a fairly small screen, I can'tget full access to the search without scrolling to the right. We wouldn't want to reduce the priority of advertising information display to the user who probably has already bought equipment and has a question about it, would we? Perhaps a nastier effect is that the more eye candy, the harder it is to use disability access features. One of the incredibly positive social effects of the Internet is that it is inclusionary, not exclusionary. The regrettable tendency of many enterprises to equate the Internet with the latest and greatest in Web technology leads to both economic and sensory exclusion. Personally, I resent having to buy new hardware to run the new operating system that runs the new browser that runs the latest plugin, in order to see straightforward reference material [1]. In addition, the more visually intensive an interface metaphor, the more difficult it is to adapt it to magnified images, text-to-speech, or other things needed for people with visual disabilities. The more mouse/trackball/pointing device intensive, the more difficult it is to adapt to people with motor disabilities -- including the all-too-common repetitive stress injuries to hands.
Re: CCO goes down the tubes
Howard C. Berkowitz wrote: At 6:58 AM -0800 3/29/04, Michel Py wrote: > Maybe I'm the only one left who sees a need to be able to check on things from a vt100 at a remote site. You are not. A telnet version without all the fluffy bullshit would be more than welcome. I suppose it's trivial in the grand scheme of things, but on a fairly small screen, I can'tget full access to the search without scrolling to the right. We wouldn't want to reduce the priority of advertising information display to the user who probably has already bought equipment and has a question about it, would we? Perhaps a nastier effect is that the more eye candy, the harder it is to use disability access features. One of the incredibly positive social effects of the Internet is that it is inclusionary, not exclusionary. The regrettable tendency of many enterprises to equate the Internet with the latest and greatest in Web technology leads to both economic and sensory exclusion. Personally, I resent having to buy new hardware to run the new operating system that runs the new browser that runs the latest plugin, in order to see straightforward reference material [1]. In addition, the more visually intensive an interface metaphor, the more difficult it is to adapt it to magnified images, text-to-speech, or other things needed for people with visual disabilities. The more mouse/trackball/pointing device intensive, the more difficult it is to adapt to people with motor disabilities -- including the all-too-common repetitive stress injuries to hands. This, along with the recognition that years of experience are of no value without the latest crop of "certifications" has caused me to decide over the weekend to make an application for a job that for the first time in 50 years has nothing directly to do with computers except as tools used in conjunction with hauling others around behind me in a huge orange box. -- Requiescas in pace o email
Level3 LA issues?
One of their LA switches has dropped the last 1800 consecutive packets sent through it ... as I'm a customer of a customer, details have been pretty scarce so far. Anybody else seeing issues with L3 in Los Angeles, or is it just me? I haven't been able to find a publicly-accessible network status page at level3.com so far ... thanks, -- Scott Francis | darkuncle(at)darkuncle(dot)net | 0x5537F527 Less and less is done until non-action is achieved when nothing is done, nothing is left undone. -- the Tao of Sysadmin pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Level3 LA issues?
On Mon, Mar 29, 2004 at 08:54:38AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > One of their LA switches has dropped the last 1800 consecutive packets sent > through it ... as I'm a customer of a customer, details have been pretty > scarce so far. Anybody else seeing issues with L3 in Los Angeles, or is it > just me? I haven't been able to find a publicly-accessible network status > page at level3.com so far ... Many thanks to Level3 for the quick response ... naturally, as soon as I posted, the problem disappeared, and everything looks fine at the moment. :) (I'd almost rather have something stay broken than to mysteriously fix itself ...) -- Scott Francis | darkuncle(at)darkuncle(dot)net | 0x5537F527 Less and less is done until non-action is achieved when nothing is done, nothing is left undone. -- the Tao of Sysadmin pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Access in Steamboat Springs CO
Anyone providing access in Steamboat Springs care to give me dial-up access for a few days? I'd just need an hour or so a day through April 2nd. I also detected a wireless provider here called Springloose - if you guys are on-list, I wouldn't mind wireless access either :) I will be happy to return the favor if you're ever in the Twin Cities area. Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications
Re: Level3 LA issues?
Many thanks to Level3 for the quick response ... naturally, as soon as I posted, the problem disappeared, and everything looks fine at the moment. :) (I'd almost rather have something stay broken than to mysteriously fix itself ...) You can also check lg.level3.net. It allows city specific tracing, ping and bgp queries. You could relatively easily determine in-real-time whether its "just you." Hope this helps. DJ
UPS and generator interaction?
Does anyone know of a way to get a UPS to trigger a generator to start, and to switch over to the generator power automatically or does this type of thing just not exist? Right now we've got a APC Symmetra UPS at 12kva, with no generator. The UPS keeps us running for about 45 minutes, which just isn't enough time. I called APC, but they didn't seem to have any type of automatic solution. Their method is to hook it up to a switch, and manually change the feed to the UPS from the building power to the generator power and back, but it sure would be nice to have something more automated (to save me from running like a madman when the UPS page wakes me up at 4am). I'd be very grateful to hear of any solutions that you guys have come up with in this arena. Also, any recommendations for generators? I'm not looking for something huge, just something that can be mounted on a roof. If I have to pour diesel into it every couple hours, that's fine too. Thanks in advance, Brian
Re: UPS and generator interaction?
Brian (nanog-list) wrote: Does anyone know of a way to get a UPS to trigger a generator to start, and to switch over to the generator power automatically or does this type of thing just not exist? Find somebody with Internet Access and a "browser--go to Google.com, enter "generator backup ups" in the box. Find things like: "http://www.standbygeneratorsystems.com/standbyportable_ad/"; I don;t know anything about that company--personally I'd look to see if Teledyne Inet was still in business. Telephone companies and such have been doing that for several years now. -- Requiescas in pace o email
Re: UPS and generator interaction?
On Monday 29 March 2004 01:26 pm, Brian (nanog-list) wrote: > Does anyone know of a way to get a UPS to trigger a generator to start, and > to switch over to the generator power automatically or does this type of > thing just not exist? I think you are looking at it wrong, you need an Automatic Transfer Switch. It connects to both commercial power and your generator, and provides a feed into your panels.Your UPS's sit in front of the ATS, and provide clean power. If/When you loose commercial power, the ATS will detect this and power on the generator, after a configurable amount of time it will switch to generator power, until commercial power comes back and is stable for X amount of time. Hope that helps, -Patrick -- Patrick Muldoon Network/Software Engineer INOC (http://www.inoc.net) PGPKEY (http://www.inoc.net/~doon) Key ID: 0x370D752C "Bear left." "Right, Frog!" - The Muppet Movie
Re: UPS and generator interaction?
Patrick Muldoon wrote: On Monday 29 March 2004 01:26 pm, Brian (nanog-list) wrote: Does anyone know of a way to get a UPS to trigger a generator to start, and to switch over to the generator power automatically or does this type of thing just not exist? I think you are looking at it wrong, you need an Automatic Transfer Switch. It connects to both commercial power and your generator, and provides a feed into your panels.Your UPS's sit in front of the ATS, and provide clean power. If/When you loose commercial power, the ATS will detect this and power on the generator, after a configurable amount of time it will switch to generator power, until commercial power comes back and is stable for X amount of time. We are talking about some significant energy levels here, and this is NOT a DIY project. If the switch is hooked up wrong, you can (attempt) to power up your part of the grid during a failure, and kill people in the attempt. -- Requiescas in pace o email
Re: UPS and generator interaction?
At 01:26 PM 3/29/2004, you wrote: I'd be very grateful to hear of any solutions that you guys have come up with in this arena. Also, any recommendations for generators? I'm not looking for something huge, just something that can be mounted on a roof. If I have to pour diesel into it every couple hours, that's fine too. You need an automatic transfer switch. Asco and Kohler both make very good ones. Square-D, GE and the other electrical component companies make medium and huge units, but it sounds like you need a small one. This would normally be installed along with your generator. R Tellurian Networks - The Ultimate Internet Connection http://www.tellurian.com | 888-TELLURIAN | 973-300-9211 "Good will, like a good name, is got by many actions, and lost by one." - Francis Jeffrey
Re: UPS and generator interaction?
Brian (nanog-list) wrote: Does anyone know of a way to get a UPS to trigger a generator to start, and to switch over to the generator power automatically or does this type of thing just not exist? What Patrick said. But, on a minor note that probably won't affect your Symmetra but I'm posting in case anyone else here can shed light on we had a power event this AM. The transfer switch did it's magic and all was good... Except for two new APC1400's- they failed once the batteries drained. I triple-checked that they were on the right panel, played with sensitivity, even tried daisy-chaining one off a good working 2200. Nothing I did would convince the two 1400s they had power. Once the house power was restored they came back to life and look normal. I later learned that two of our colo customers with APC1400s had the same problem :( Other models (even a couple non-essential lower-end, dumb APC 450s and 650s) didn't blink at the generator power. Mike
Re: UPS and generator interaction?
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Mike Lewinski wrote: > But, on a minor note that probably won't affect your Symmetra but I'm > posting in case anyone else here can shed light on we had a power > event this AM. The transfer switch did it's magic and all was good... > Except for two new APC1400's- they failed once the batteries drained. I > triple-checked that they were on the right panel, played with > sensitivity, even tried daisy-chaining one off a good working 2200. > Nothing I did would convince the two 1400s they had power. Once the > house power was restored they came back to life and look normal. I later > learned that two of our colo customers with APC1400s had the same > problem :( Other models (even a couple non-essential lower-end, dumb APC > 450s and 650s) didn't blink at the generator power. Check generator frequency. If it has a mechanical governor, you may need to replace it with electronic. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Administration - [EMAIL PROTECTED] WestNet: Connecting you to the planet. 805 884-6323 WB6RDV NetLojix Communications, Inc. - http://www.netlojix.com/
Re: UPS and generator interaction?
Brian, The way the generators usually are set up is an transfer switch at the input of the UPS. When commercial power is lost the ATS signals the Genset to start and once the input voltage stablizes the UPS shuts down. This scenario assumes the use of a line interactive UPS which includes the UPS you describe. In the case of a online the UPS "sees" that line power has been restored. When power is restored the ATS switches back to commercial power and signals the generator to shut down. The ATS usually "exercises" the generator as well on a set schedule as well. My advice is to contact a local electrician who specializes in generator installations as local codes define what you are allowed to do. BTW APC has an environmental monitor card with relay outputs which can be used to start a compatible generator. once again you need to talk to your local electrician. Scott C. McGrath On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Brian (nanog-list) wrote: > > Does anyone know of a way to get a UPS to trigger a generator to start, and > to switch over to the generator power automatically or does this type of > thing just not exist? > > Right now we've got a APC Symmetra UPS at 12kva, with no generator. The UPS > keeps us running for about 45 minutes, which just isn't enough time. I > called APC, but they didn't seem to have any type of automatic solution. > Their method is to hook it up to a switch, and manually change the feed to > the UPS from the building power to the generator power and back, but it sure > would be nice to have something more automated (to save me from running like > a madman when the UPS page wakes me up at 4am). > > I'd be very grateful to hear of any solutions that you guys have come up > with in this arena. Also, any recommendations for generators? I'm not > looking for something huge, just something that can be mounted on a roof. > If I have to pour diesel into it every couple hours, that's fine too. > > Thanks in advance, > Brian >
RE: UPS and generator interaction?
Brian (nanog-list) wrote: > Does anyone know of a way to get a UPS to trigger a generator to start, and > to switch over to the generator power automatically or does this type of > thing just not exist? What Patrick said. >But, on a minor note that probably won't affect your Symmetra but I'm >posting in case anyone else here can shed light on we had a power >event this AM. The transfer switch did it's magic and all was good... >Except for two new APC1400's- they failed once the batteries drained. I >triple-checked that they were on the right panel, played with >sensitivity, even tried daisy-chaining one off a good working 2200. >Nothing I did would convince the two 1400s they had power. Once the >house power was restored they came back to life and look normal. I later >learned that two of our colo customers with APC1400s had the same >problem :( Other models (even a couple non-essential lower-end, dumb APC >450s and 650s) didn't blink at the generator power. >Mike If you are sure they were on an EP panel, then you may want to verify the generator frequency/voltage. We had an old 120KVA UPS that was VERY sensitive to frequency, and would stay on battery while the generator was running, even if the frequency was only off 1/2 cycle. Regards, Keith
Re: UPS and generator interaction?
At 01:53 PM 3/29/2004, Mike Lewinski wrote: Brian (nanog-list) wrote: Does anyone know of a way to get a UPS to trigger a generator to start, and to switch over to the generator power automatically or does this type of thing just not exist? What Patrick said. An additional note: some of the small to mid-sized propane/natural gas units come as packaged systems with a generator and transfer switch. These can be a good value and work well too. Do some shopping. But, on a minor note that probably won't affect your Symmetra but I'm posting in case anyone else here can shed light on we had a power event this AM. The transfer switch did it's magic and all was good... Except for two new APC1400's- they failed once the batteries drained. I triple-checked that they were on the right panel, played with sensitivity, even tried daisy-chaining one off a good working 2200. Nothing I did would convince the two 1400s they had power. Once the house power was restored they came back to life and look normal. I later learned that two of our colo customers with APC1400s had the same problem :( Other models (even a couple non-essential lower-end, dumb APC 450s and 650s) didn't blink at the generator power. The Winco 8KW unit I use to protect my home is designed to output 62.5Hz when unloaded, so that motor starts (well, furnace) don't pull it below 60Hz. Devices all seem quite happy with this setup. We use a bunch of APC SmartUPS units because these have sensitivity adjustments. We need to knock them back to the medium sensitivity or they freak out with the 62Hz, and keep switching on and off battery. We find the lower-end units (BackUps) won't work at all, since they just freak.
Re: UPS and generator interaction?
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Mike Lewinski wrote: > > Brian (nanog-list) wrote: > > > Does anyone know of a way to get a UPS to trigger a generator to start, and > > to switch over to the generator power automatically or does this type of > > thing just not exist? > > What Patrick said. > > But, on a minor note that probably won't affect your Symmetra but I'm > posting in case anyone else here can shed light on we had a power > event this AM. The transfer switch did it's magic and all was good... > Except for two new APC1400's- they failed once the batteries drained. I > triple-checked that they were on the right panel, played with > sensitivity, even tried daisy-chaining one off a good working 2200. > Nothing I did would convince the two 1400s they had power. Once the > house power was restored they came back to life and look normal. I later > learned that two of our colo customers with APC1400s had the same > problem :( Other models (even a couple non-essential lower-end, dumb APC > 450s and 650s) didn't blink at the generator power. It's possible that the generatar is running to fast or slow and the frequency is out of range for the ups... I had this happen in Ghana, generator was producing 47.5hz, opened the throttle and everything was fine. > Mike > -- -- Joel Jaeggli Unix Consulting [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG Key Fingerprint: 5C6E 0104 BAF0 40B0 5BD3 C38B F000 35AB B67F 56B2
Re: Publish or (gulp) Perish
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED] om>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > >>well, a copy of "the bell technical journal" with the first >>paper describing unix is on my shelf. > >On my bookshelf too. > >I believe this was more of a "technical reports" series >than a referreed journal since it contained only work >being done by the one organization. A lot of universities >and research labs also publish a "technical reports" series >that describes work whichj may or may not make its way into >journals and conference proceedings. It was heavily refereed and edited -- but that was done internally. --Steve Bellovin, http://www.research.att.com/~smb
Re: UPS and generator interaction?
At 02:41 PM 3/29/2004, Doug Dever wrote: Previously, Daniel Senie ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > An additional note: some of the small to mid-sized propane/natural gas > units come as packaged systems with a generator and transfer switch. These > can be a good value and work well too. Do some shopping. > The obvious caveat being that natural gas is one of those fuel sources often cut by public safety officials depending on circumstances. I keep sufficient propane on-site for a week of operation of my genset at home. Certainly there are concerns with using street gas, but these can be overcome. Gas does have significant advantages over diesel in terms of fuel not getting contaminated. For smaller sites especially, it makes a lot of sense. Anyone approaching the question of getting a generator for a site needs to weigh a lot of factors. What's right for your site might not be the same as for someone else. As for gas being cut by public safety, that can be a good thing. From what I read, #7 WTC may well have stayed up had it not been for the diesel stored there. If they'd been running from street gas, they'd have lost power, but maybe not lost the building. Sometimes it's a good thing to be able to interrupt the fuel source to a building that's on fire or threatened by fire.
Re: UPS and generator interaction?
Doug Dever wrote: Previously, Daniel Senie ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: An additional note: some of the small to mid-sized propane/natural gas units come as packaged systems with a generator and transfer switch. These can be a good value and work well too. Do some shopping. The obvious caveat being that natural gas is one of those fuel sources often cut by public safety officials depending on circumstances. Some folk by propane or LPG in bottles that are not immediately dependent on PS folk. -- Requiescas in pace o email
New cisco exploit published in the media today
Cisco warns of new hacking toolkit http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/03/29/HNhackingtoolkit_1.html exploit location http://www.blackangels.it/ -Henry
Re: New cisco exploit published in the media today
Forgive the not panicing, but none of the exploits utilized by this tool are new, the newest being a year old, most being 2-3 years old, judging by the dates on the cisco pages. -S On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Henry Linneweh wrote: > > Cisco warns of new hacking toolkit > http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/03/29/HNhackingtoolkit_1.html > > exploit location > http://www.blackangels.it/ > > -Henry > > > > !DSPAM:4068933e94641474817789! > > > -- Scott Call Router Geek, ATGi, home of $6.95 Prime Rib I make the world a better place, I boycott Wal-Mart VoIP incoming: +1 360-382-1814
Re: New cisco exploit published in the media today
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Scott Call wrote: | Forgive the not panicing, but none of the exploits utilized by this tool | are new, the newest being a year old, most being 2-3 years old, judging by | the dates on the cisco pages. | Yes, but the toolkit and the simplicity with which these exploits can now be executed IS new. This notification serves as a reminder to those who may not have addressed these vulnerabilities in their networks even where there have been fixes for several years. - -- = bep -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (MingW32) iD8DBQFAaKNSE1XcgMgrtyYRAgWyAKCebXMbePjRFZVKMeUYpUYc6JE76QCfcEJa PeZKPuual+8U1/90cFn7cUk= =JU67 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: New cisco exploit published in the media today
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Scott Call wrote: > > Forgive the not panicing, but none of the exploits utilized by this tool > are new, the newest being a year old, most being 2-3 years old, judging by > the dates on the cisco pages. Which brings to mind the question of when will reporters be able to "objectively" report something, and not "attenuate" certain aspects for the benefit of creating a "scoop". I perfectly understand the need to make public the availability of this new cracking tool, but I do not understand why there was no mention of the fact it exploits bugs that are 1.5-3 years old, which would have put matters in the proper perspective, instead of trying to create commotion as if some immediate danger was hanging above our enterprise LANs. *sigh* --Ariel > > -S > > On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Henry Linneweh wrote: > > > > > Cisco warns of new hacking toolkit > > http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/03/29/HNhackingtoolkit_1.html > > > > exploit location > > http://www.blackangels.it/ > > > > -Henry > > > > > > > > !DSPAM:4068933e94641474817789! > > > > > > > > -- > Scott CallRouter Geek, ATGi, home of$6.95 Prime Rib > I make the world a better place, I boycott Wal-Mart > VoIP incoming: +1 360-382-1814 > > > +++ > This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System > at the Tel-Aviv University CC. > -- Ariel Biener e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP(6.5.8) public key http://www.tau.ac.il/~ariel/pgp.html
RE: UPS and generator interaction?
I had trouble like this years ago. Seems that some UPSes only recognize sine-wave AC power, whereas some UPSes provice something more like sawtooth or square-wave AC power. Inserting a Variac (very inefficient) between the generator and the sensitive UPSes fixed the problem. Dave Hilton SysAdmin Entelos Dum Spiro, Spero -Original Message- From: Mike Lewinski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:54 AM To: Brian (nanog-list) Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: UPS and generator interaction? Brian (nanog-list) wrote: > Does anyone know of a way to get a UPS to trigger a generator to > start, and to switch over to the generator power automatically or does > this type of thing just not exist? What Patrick said. But, on a minor note that probably won't affect your Symmetra but I'm posting in case anyone else here can shed light on we had a power event this AM. The transfer switch did it's magic and all was good... Except for two new APC1400's- they failed once the batteries drained. I triple-checked that they were on the right panel, played with sensitivity, even tried daisy-chaining one off a good working 2200. Nothing I did would convince the two 1400s they had power. Once the house power was restored they came back to life and look normal. I later learned that two of our colo customers with APC1400s had the same problem :( Other models (even a couple non-essential lower-end, dumb APC 450s and 650s) didn't blink at the generator power. Mike
Re: New cisco exploit published in the media today
Ariel Biener wrote: Which brings to mind the question of when will reporters be able to "objectively" report something, and not "attenuate" certain aspects for the benefit of creating a "scoop". Not to mention driving traffic to their site which they wouldn't of seen had they mentioned certain key facts. Chris
Re: New cisco exploit published in the media today
On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 00:37:29 +0200, Ariel Biener said: > I perfectly understand the need to make public the availability of this > new cracking tool, but I do not understand why there was no mention of > the fact it exploits bugs that are 1.5-3 years old, which would have put > matters in the proper perspective, instead of trying to create commotion > as if some immediate danger was hanging above our enterprise LANs. Compare the potential eyeball count: "Exploit for 3 year old hole available" "Death of Internet Predicted. MPEGs at 11 (10:30 in Newfoundland)". pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: New cisco exploit published in the media today
> "Death of Internet Predicted. MPEGs at 11 (10:30 in Newfoundland)". I think it's 11:30 (Newfoundland does have DST). I'm not a Canadian (and I don't play one on the Internet), so don't quote me. Martin
Re: UPS and generator interaction?
Speaking on Deep Background, the Press Secretary whispered: > Does anyone know of a way to get a UPS to trigger a generator to start, and > to switch over to the generator power automatically or does this type of > thing just not exist? The UPS will have nothing to do with this. The generator would be connected to an Automatic Transfer Switch (really an A.T.Relay..) that would: a) Wait from several seconds up to a minute, to avoid false starts. b) Start the generator c) Transfer the load after the generator is going. If the UPS is plugged into a generator-fed outlet, it then goes back to charge. I *have* seen the issue others mentioned - where the USP would not recognize generator power. It was SmartUPS's and I'm still puzzled. The AC output did have some ringing[1] on the scope but it was not clear that was the cause. Note a Variac [autotransformer] would be of no help. What might would be a ferro-resonant ["Sola"] transformer. FR transformers use a big hunk of transformer iron, in effect a magnetic flywheel, to smooth out all kinds of dips, spikes and surges. But there's a heavy price for such - an unloaded 1000 watt Sola draws ~340 watts. Their efficiency is better at rated load, but they still make nice heaters. They also HU. FR's have another issue. The output voltage is not a function of input voltage[2] but *IS* a function of frequency! And they are BIG starting loads. Thus you load the generator with the FR regulator, it gulps and slows down, lowering the frequency, dropping the regulated output, the generator recovers and raises its frequency, so the voltage. If the FR load is a fraction of the total load; it's usually not an issue. [And remember, the generator must run the HVAC unless all you want is an orderly shutdown within a few minutes..] [1] Here 'ringing' means sharp spikes in the should-be-smooth sine-wave output. [2] Within a wide range, say 105-135v in for a 120v model. But get outside of THAT, and...] -- A host is a host from coast to [EMAIL PROTECTED] & no one will talk to a host that's close[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead20915-1433
Re: UPS and generator interaction?
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. wrote: > > > On Monday 29 March 2004 01:26 pm, Brian (nanog-list) wrote: > > > >>Does anyone know of a way to get a UPS to trigger a generator to start, and > >>to switch over to the generator power automatically or does this type of > >>thing just not exist? > > > > I think you are looking at it wrong, you need an Automatic Transfer Switch. > > It connects to both commercial power and your generator, and provides a feed > > into your panels.Your UPS's sit in front of the ATS, and provide clean > > power. If/When you loose commercial power, the ATS will detect this and > > power on the generator, after a configurable amount of time it will switch to > > generator power, until commercial power comes back and is stable for X amount > > of time. > > We are talking about some significant energy levels here, and this > is NOT a DIY project. If the switch is hooked up wrong, you can > (attempt) to power up your part of the grid during a failure, and > kill people in the attempt. Agreed. You should have an electrician install the automatic transfer switch along with the UPS. If you are going to install a permanent generator you will need to get permits anyway, which will require a licensed electrican. Talk to your UPS vendor for electrical contractor recommendations in your area. BTW, for safety and protection of your equipment, large automatic transfer switches sense voltage, frequency, and phase when switching between generator and utility power. Mike. +- H U R R I C A N E - E L E C T R I C -+ | Mike Leber Direct Internet Connections Voice 510 580 4100 | | Hurricane Electric Web Hosting Colocation Fax 510 580 4151 | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.he.net | +---+
