IPv6 on SOHO routers?
Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask. I'm attending an Emerging Communications course where the instructor stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to Asia specifically. Do Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, etc. have such software for the Asian markets? Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like Cisco will be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time I've heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it with some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is that we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come. Frank
Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers?
Frank Bulk - iNAME wrote: Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask. I'm attending an Emerging Communications course where the instructor stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to Asia specifically. Do Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, etc. have such software for the Asian markets? Get yourself a copy of ipv6style magazine. http://www.ipv6style.jp The answer is yes. Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like Cisco will be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time I've heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it with some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is that we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come. That's to say, if you're projecting a particular tipping point in ipv4 vs ipv6 usability then sure that's plausible. there are plenty of divergent opinions on the subject. Frank
Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers?
On 12-Mar-2008, at 16:06, Frank Bulk - iNAME wrote: Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask. I'm attending an Emerging Communications course where the instructor stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to Asia specifically. Do Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, etc. have such software for the Asian markets? I seem to think I've seen SOHO routers (or gateways I suppose, assuming that these boxes are rarely simply routers) on display at beer'n'gear-type venues at APRICOT meetings, going back several years. The glossy pamphlets have long since been discarded, so I can't tell you names of vendors. More mainstream for this market, Apple's airport extreme SOHO router does IPv6. http://www.apple.com/airportextreme/specs.html I have not had the time to figure out what does IPv6 means, exactly (DHCPv6? IPv6 DNS resolver?) but I seem to think it will provide route advertisements and route out either using 6to4 or a manually- configured tunnel. Joe
Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers?
In a message written on Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 03:06:24PM -0500, Frank Bulk - iNAME wrote: Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like Cisco will be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time I've heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it with some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is that we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come. ISP's are very good at one thing, driving out unnecessary cost. Running dual stack increases cost. While I'm not sure about the 5 year part, I'm sure ISP's will move to disable IPv4 support as soon as the market will let them as a cost saving measure. Runing for decades dual stacked does not make a lot of economic sense for all involved. -- Leo Bicknell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ pgpCewdFdfeY9.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers?
On Mar 12, 2008, at 1:06 PM, Frank Bulk - iNAME wrote: Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask. I'm attending an Emerging Communications course where the instructor stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=33DD138Bfnode=home/shop_mac/mac_accessories/networkingnplm=MB053LL/A There are a couple of other boxes I noticed recently at Fry's (in the SF Bay Area) that claimed IPv6 support on the box, but I have no idea how real those claims are. Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like Cisco will be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time I've heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it with some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is that we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come. I suspect you should back away slowly from anyone who suggests IPv4 is going to go away within 5 years. Regards, -drc
Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers?
Yes, there are many. Take a look at www.ipv6-to-standard.org Regards, Jordi De: Frank Bulk - iNAME [EMAIL PROTECTED] Responder a: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fecha: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:06:24 -0500 Para: nanog@merit.edu Asunto: IPv6 on SOHO routers? Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask. I'm attending an Emerging Communications course where the instructor stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to Asia specifically. Do Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, etc. have such software for the Asian markets? Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like Cisco will be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time I've heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it with some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is that we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come. Frank ** The IPv6 Portal: http://www.ipv6tf.org Bye 6Bone. Hi, IPv6 ! http://www.ipv6day.org This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.
Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers?
I seem to remember something about Earthlink rolling out v6 enabled wifi routers to its customers (linksys with a hacked up firmware that'd create a v6 tunnel between the cpe and an elnk tunnelbroker) .. what happened to that interesting little product? Killed off and the few remaining users grandfathered? srs On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 1:36 AM, Frank Bulk - iNAME [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask. I'm attending an Emerging Communications course where the instructor stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to Asia specifically.
Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers?
Frank, Juniper Networks Does support IPv6 in J-Series Routers and SSG Firewalls: http://www.juniper.net/products_and_services/j_series_services_routers/ http://www.juniper.net/products_and_services/ex_series/index.html http://www.juniper.net/products_and_services/firewall_slash_ipsec_vpn/index.html http://www.juniper.net/federal/IPv6/ SSG-5 and SSG-20 does support it after Screenos 6.1 ... for small office business. Other vendor like Fortinet is supporting IPv6 in SOHO equipment too. Att, Giuliano Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask. I'm attending an Emerging Communications course where the instructor stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to Asia specifically. Do Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, etc. have such software for the Asian markets? Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like Cisco will be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time I've heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it with some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is that we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come. Frank __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 2942 (20080312) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
RE: IPv6 on SOHO routers?
If history is any guide the last Cisco boxes I worked on supported various flavors of SDLC and pre-SNA IBM comm, DECnet and DECnet LAT, IPX, Burroughs, poll select and the only protocol they do not still support is CorvisNet on twisted pair. Some of these protocols have not seen the light of day since when? What is a Good CCIE test without arcane SDLC, HDLC and DECnet protocol questions. Most SOHO routers use standard or proprietary silicon to do the IP stack or IP route assist and when the silicon is available for dual stack in quantity 10,000 units or more at a reasonable price the SOHO routers will support both. IMHO before Linksys was owned by Cisco, I liked Netgear because there code was from Bay networks and had better routing. Finally, when I bought the expensive $ 150.00 routers with integral VPN support that was neat. What I would like to see today is SOHO routers that do not interfere with 6 over 4 transport since my ISP does not offer home DSL termination of v6. Taking the silicon in a SOHO and adding 5 to 10 $ US in cost for v6 and multiple that by 5 to get a retail price of those features. Then offset that with the decrease in silicon size when you add both together with smaller size lines and transistors on the chips, I would project SOHO prices of 250 - 350 $ US to start with for v4 v6 and dropping from there. John (ISDN) Lee From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Frank Bulk - iNAME Sent: Wed 3/12/2008 4:06 PM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: IPv6 on SOHO routers? Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask. I'm attending an Emerging Communications course where the instructor stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to Asia specifically. Do Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, etc. have such software for the Asian markets? Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like Cisco will be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time I've heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it with some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is that we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come. Frank
RE: IPv6 on SOHO routers?
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008, John Lee wrote: What I would like to see today is SOHO routers that do not interfere with 6 over 4 transport since my ISP does not offer home DSL termination of v6. Taking the silicon in a SOHO and adding 5 to 10 $ US in cost for v6 and multiple that by 5 to get a retail price of those features. Then offset that with the decrease in silicon size when you add both together with smaller size lines and transistors on the chips, I would project SOHO prices of 250 - 350 $ US to start with for v4 v6 and dropping from there. OpenWRT which actually supports IPv6 (by virtue of being linux based) can be run on very cheap devices (as most smaller home NAT-gateways are CPU based, no biggie), I suspect IPv6 on most of these is only a matter of someone actually putting it in their RFQ and be willing to pay a few $ extra per unit when buying the normal large telco volumes. Running code is out there, it's just a matter of getting it into the devices. The smaller SOHO routers that cisco has (800 and 1800 series) are quite ready for this, 12.4T even has support for DHCPv6 prefix delegation on the 878 for instance (it was the only one I checked in the software advisor). -- Mikael Abrahamssonemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Customer-facing ACLs
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have a two-dozen line long ACL applied to our CMTS and BRAS blocking Windows and virus ports and have never had a complaint or a problem. We do have a more sophisticated residential or large-biz customers ask, but I'd like to ask the same question of you that I just did to Chris. How'd you implement that or has it been there since the network was new? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Frank Bulk - iNAME [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those ACLs were added when I came on board. Again, only one complaint in 3+ years. Do you mean they were already there when you arrived, or do you mean you just put in ACLs after arriving? No research into traffic? No contact to customers? No elaborating to the less technical folks in the company about what was going to happen? etc... We have over 100k DSL folks and most're DHCP. I'd be afraid to do that without research into the traffic via permit TCP NNN log type ACLs and other methods. I believe I will take Sean D's sugestion and read MAAWG's docs. Makes me wonder, though, if we took over the Hawaii part of VZ's network and it was completely open, does that mean the rest of their network is similarly open? scott
Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers?
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:06:24 CDT, Frank Bulk - iNAME said: Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask. I'm attending an Emerging Communications course where the instructor stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to Asia specifically. Well, of *course* you're more likely to find such SOHO routers in markets where a SOHO router owner might actually be able to use the feature. But in most parts of the US, IPv6 support in a SOHO router is right up there with GOSIP compliance as far as actual usefulness goes... pgpaykU0TZGy0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers?
On 13/03/2008, at 11:30 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:06:24 CDT, Frank Bulk - iNAME said: Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask. I'm attending an Emerging Communications course where the instructor stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to Asia specifically. Well, of *course* you're more likely to find such SOHO routers in markets where a SOHO router owner might actually be able to use the feature. But in most parts of the US, IPv6 support in a SOHO router is right up there with GOSIP compliance as far as actual usefulness goes... Yup. If you look at the devices claimed to be IPv6 CPE in Asian markets, they're inevitably Ethernet-only, to be used on networks where the customer is provided with an Ethernet jack in their home or apartment complex. Those of us who use ADSL or (heaven forbid) Cable are kinda out of luck. I haven't yet found ADSL2+ CPE that does IPv6 over PPPoE or PPPoA out of the box. (Billion in Taiwan has a device which they've stamped an IPv6 Ready sticker onto, but the IPv6 version of the software hasn't left the confines of their lab yet) As far as I've been able to determine, IPv6 SOHO CPE is largely vaporware right now. And lets not even get started on residential grade CPE, that doesn't even appear to be on most vendors' radar _at all_. If anything useful is going to happen in this space, my guess is that it'll be with custom Linux firmware running on a LinkSys blob with no vendor support. - mark -- Mark Newton Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (W) Network Engineer Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (H) Internode Systems Pty Ltd Desk: +61-8-82282999 Network Man - Anagram of Mark Newton Mobile: +61-416-202-223
RE: Customer-facing ACLs
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I added them a few months after I came on board. The ports that are blocked are either Window's SMB/RPC ports or the ones that (a long time ago) were used by worms. Correct, no research into traffic or contact with customers. Although some may argue that sharing one's files with their neighbor using Window's File and Print sharing is a valid service, it's generally accepted that that residential subscribers have no legitimate need to be communicating with those ports on the internet and they are 100 times to 1 more likely to carry malicious traffic than not. And as our history has shown, there's been close to zero issues. Yes, perhaps customers just didn't bother to call in to complain or that call wasn't escalated to me, but I think I could communicate a pretty convincing argument if required. Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Weeks Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 6:39 PM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: Customer-facing ACLs --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have a two-dozen line long ACL applied to our CMTS and BRAS blocking Windows and virus ports and have never had a complaint or a problem. We do have a more sophisticated residential or large-biz customers ask, but I'd like to ask the same question of you that I just did to Chris. How'd you implement that or has it been there since the network was new? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Frank Bulk - iNAME [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those ACLs were added when I came on board. Again, only one complaint in 3+ years. Do you mean they were already there when you arrived, or do you mean you just put in ACLs after arriving? No research into traffic? No contact to customers? No elaborating to the less technical folks in the company about what was going to happen? etc... We have over 100k DSL folks and most're DHCP. I'd be afraid to do that without research into the traffic via permit TCP NNN log type ACLs and other methods. I believe I will take Sean D's sugestion and read MAAWG's docs. Makes me wonder, though, if we took over the Hawaii part of VZ's network and it was completely open, does that mean the rest of their network is similarly open? scott
RE: IPv6 on SOHO routers?
I must be blind, but I don't recognize any brands there that support IPv6 (besides the Apple Airport). I see the Linksys WRT54G, but I don't know where they find the validation for IPv6 support, unless they mean DD-WRT. Based on all the responses I received on and off list, it appears, that as far as name brands recognized in the U.S., only Apple makes a SOHO router that support IPv6. Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JORDI PALET MARTINEZ Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 3:56 PM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers? Yes, there are many. Take a look at www.ipv6-to-standard.org Regards, Jordi De: Frank Bulk - iNAME [EMAIL PROTECTED] Responder a: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fecha: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:06:24 -0500 Para: nanog@merit.edu Asunto: IPv6 on SOHO routers? Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask. I'm attending an Emerging Communications course where the instructor stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to Asia specifically. Do Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, etc. have such software for the Asian markets? Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like Cisco will be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time I've heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it with some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is that we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come. Frank ** The IPv6 Portal: http://www.ipv6tf.org Bye 6Bone. Hi, IPv6 ! http://www.ipv6day.org This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.
RE: IPv6 on SOHO routers?
Looks like there's some kind of wiki here, too: http://www.getipv6.info/index.php/Broadband_CPE Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank Bulk - iNAME Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 3:06 PM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: IPv6 on SOHO routers? Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask. I'm attending an Emerging Communications course where the instructor stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to Asia specifically. Do Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, etc. have such software for the Asian markets? Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like Cisco will be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time I've heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it with some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is that we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come. Frank
RE: IPv6 on SOHO routers?
And it looks like the Buffalo WZR-AG300NH claims support, too: http://www.buffalotech.com/files/products/wzr-ag300nh_DS.pdf I don't consider Buffalo a tier 1 or 2 SOHO vendor, but they're still on my top-ten list for SOHO networking vendors. Regards, Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank Bulk - iNAME Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 3:06 PM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: IPv6 on SOHO routers? Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask. I'm attending an Emerging Communications course where the instructor stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to Asia specifically. Do Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, etc. have such software for the Asian markets? Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like Cisco will be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time I've heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it with some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is that we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come. Frank
