IPv6 tunnel for ISP sought
Hello. I looked through the recent archives and didn't see this question addressed, so please excuse me if it has been beaten to death or is considered off-topic. We have a UUnet link and a secondary provider. The secondary provider has no IPv6 facilities. UUnet (er, Verizon Business) has IPv6 clue, but there is an impenetrable wall between the customer and the clue which assures that there will be no IPv6 links or tunnels ever given to customers. We would like to get an IPv6 tunnel to begin limited testing of IPv6 for customers. Is there any IPv6-savvy ISP out there who will give/sell tunnels to other ISPs? Experimentation with SixXS.NET has proven to be problematic, so I'd rather have a more stable and commercial relationship if possible. As you might guess, our IPv6 traffic load is estimated to be between zero and unmeasurably small, but we'd still like to have it hover above the absolute zero mark. Any help/pointers/advice/proposals gratefully solicited. jms -- Joel M Snyder, 1404 East Lind Road, Tucson, AZ, 85719 Senior Partner, Opus One Phone: +1 520 324 0494 [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.opus1.com/jms
Re: IPv6 tunnel for ISP sought
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Joel Snyder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We would like to get an IPv6 tunnel to begin limited testing of IPv6 for customers. Is there any IPv6-savvy ISP out there who will give/sell tunnels to other ISPs? Experimentation with SixXS.NET has proven to be problematic, so I'd rather have a more stable and commercial relationship if possible. Joel, Give the folks at Hurricane Electric a shot if you haven't already: http://tunnelbroker.net/ Regards, Bill Herrin -- William D. Herrin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3005 Crane Dr. Web: http://bill.herrin.us/ Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
Re: IPv6 tunnel for ISP sought
On Mar 22, 2008, at 2:44 PM, Joel Snyder wrote: We would like to get an IPv6 tunnel to begin limited testing of IPv6 for customers. Is there any IPv6-savvy ISP out there who will give/ sell tunnels to other ISPs? Experimentation with SixXS.NET has proven to be problematic, so I'd rather have a more stable and commercial relationship if possible. You've got a few options. First, if you're having a problem with SixXS, make sure you let them know. They're good guys there, and their support tends to be faster than some companies we've bought transit from. :) But, you're right, that isn't a commercial service and is more on the best effort side of things, instead of the SLA side. There are other services like SixXS that give out tunnels more-or-less automatically (tunnelbroker.net from Hurricane Electric, is the other big one), but that's also pretty much a best effort service. If you're wanting more than an auto-created tunnel, because you want to run BGP or have your own space announced, or someone to yell at when it breaks, you'll probably need to find someone who will treat a tunnel like a customer connection. Hurricane Electric was offering BGP over tunnels at one point, but I don't know if they still are. Sprint made an announcement years ago that they were offering free tunnels with BGP and treated them more or less like customer ports, but I don't know if that's still happening. If your use is really small, we've given some free tunnels as customers to a few ISPs, but I don't know if the level of support I'm offering is really what you're looking for either. I don't know that anyone out there right now is doing a Tunnels for Dollars kinda situation, because it's so hard to support. If the v4 path between you and the tunnel provider breaks, there's not always anything anyone can do about it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IPv6_tunnel_brokers might be a good place to start. -- Kevin
Re: IPv6 tunnel for ISP sought
Kevin Day wrote: Hurricane Electric was offering BGP over tunnels at one point, but I don't know if they still are. Sprint made an announcement years ago that they were offering free tunnels with BGP and treated them more or less like customer ports, but I don't know if that's still happening. If your use is really small, we've given some free tunnels as customers to a few ISPs, but I don't know if the level of support I'm offering is really what you're looking for either. I can vouch that Sprint is still offering IPv6 with BGP over tunnels. I'm currently announcing my /48 with it, but I don't use it too much beyond testing/playing. I'm still waiting for it to become dual-stack, so if anyone from Sprint is reading this... ;) ~Seth
Re: IPv6 tunnel for ISP sought
On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, Kevin Day wrote: On Mar 22, 2008, at 2:44 PM, Joel Snyder wrote: We would like to get an IPv6 tunnel to begin limited testing of IPv6 for customers. Is there any IPv6-savvy ISP out there who will give/ sell tunnels to other ISPs? Experimentation with SixXS.NET has proven to be problematic, so I'd rather have a more stable and commercial relationship if possible. You've got a few options. First, if you're having a problem with SixXS, make sure you let them know. They're good guys there, and their support tends to be faster than some companies we've bought transit from. :) But, you're right, that isn't a commercial service and is more on the best effort side of things, instead of the SLA side. There are other services like SixXS that give out tunnels more-or-less automatically (tunnelbroker.net from Hurricane Electric, is the other big one), but that's also pretty much a best effort service. FWIW, we handle the tunnelbroker.net tickets sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] the same as customer tickets sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] (same ticket system). We also follow up in the forums: http://tunnelbroker.net/forums Since we provide /48s via a button and the ability to set your reverse DNS servers in the tunnelbroker.net interface, those two sources of traditional support tickets are reduced. If you're wanting more than an auto-created tunnel, because you want to run BGP or have your own space announced, or someone to yell at when it breaks, you'll probably need to find someone who will treat a tunnel like a customer connection. In our case: phone support and priority for network engineer attention. Hurricane Electric was offering BGP over tunnels at one point, but I don't know if they still are. Sprint made an announcement years ago that they were offering free tunnels with BGP and treated them more or less like customer ports, but I don't know if that's still happening. We review BGP tunnel requests manually to ensure that request came from somebody at the actual AS owner. We setup tunnels with BGP using specific routers in various locations, that are separate from the auto-created tunnels. We are gradually adding geographically disperse BGP tunnel servers to provide closer endpoints for users. When possible Hurricane would prefer to give native IPv6 transit at an exchange we have in common rather than giving IPv6 transit via a tunnel. The vast majority of Hurricane's IPv6 peering is via native sessions. If your use is really small, we've given some free tunnels as customers to a few ISPs, but I don't know if the level of support I'm offering is really what you're looking for either. I don't know that anyone out there right now is doing a Tunnels for Dollars kinda situation, because it's so hard to support. We do. We have customers with paid commercial IPv6 tunnels. Some companies and organizations can't or don't want to use free service. Paying for service gets phone support, help with custom configurations, engineering attention to your specific use, and a sales rep to deploy more service. Of course we provide and recommend native connectivity for transit connections and colo. Mike. +- H U R R I C A N E - E L E C T R I C -+ | Mike Leber Wholesale IPv4 and IPv6 Transit 510 580 4100 | | Hurricane Electric Web Hosting Colocation AS6939 | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://he.net | +---+
Re: IPv6 tunnel for ISP sought
Joel Snyder wrote: [..] Experimentation with SixXS.NET has proven to be problematic, How so? It is always fun to read that people have 'problems', but it is even funnier then when the person's name isn't even listed in whois.sixxs.net and thus doesn't even have an account, nor am I able to even find a single email from either opus1 or your name, thus I really wonder what things are 'problematic' for you. You might be interested to try this marvelous thing called the World Wide Web, and read http://www.sixxs.net/contact/ and when you have done that, use this great invention called email to contact us, if you still have questions about things, that is why that page is there, clearly people are scared by it and don't dare to ask... As you might guess, our IPv6 traffic load is estimated to be between zero and unmeasurably small, but we'd still like to have it hover above the absolute zero mark. Then again, if you are a real ISP, you will have to do what everybody else in the business is doing: - get a block from ARIN (or your favorite local RIR :) http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/dfp/arin/ doesn't list you, thus you might want to start out there - arrange transit - this generally means you are going to pay for bits just like in the IPv4 world. - fix your routers and the rest of your network Though SixXS is there to get people going in using IPv6, it definitely is not meant to support your full business process, if you require that, go pay somebody who can give you their full attention, there are lists in the FAQ with organizations who can do that for you for that purpose. Greets, Jeroen signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip http://www.einstein-website.de/z_kids/letterskids.html That's cute Valdis, but did the little girl and Einstein force thousands of people around the world to read their correspondence? I whole-heartily encourage and thank anyone willing to take the time to help the original poster. Off-list. Andrew Strange. I subscribed to numerous mailing lists. My mail reader's search function has been most enlightening when someone shared the answer with the group, which is often experienced by others, clueful or not, and honestly, easier to search than most mailing list archives. It's disingenuous to not share the answer, as anyone searching the archives will find the question unanwered and thus insurmountable, or they'll find a polite followup or pointer, and the benefit happens without additional email traffic When did this become the debian support list anyway :-) Or should we simply point folks to http://www.routergod.com/ To whomever started the thread with an actual question, don't be scared off. We're more like gentoo users than the other guys. Here's a good general resource (I know there are better but some of my favorite links are lost in time, and encourage folks to share) http://www.private.org.il/tcpip_rl.html Hey nanog committee, there's an idea. How about an operator's wiki? http://www.nanog.org/isp.html looks a bit weak given the overall bundled IQ floating around these parts? (even an email submission link for good stuff might be a start.nanog-support seems too general for such) Best regards, andy
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
Hey nanog committee, there's an idea. How about an operator's wiki? http://nanog.cluepon.net/ centralization is not a core feature of the internet :) randy
