Bet on with my boss
Hello Jane, My boss and I had a bet you'd post to NANOG at least five times today without contributing anything worthwhile. Thanks to you, I'm $20 richer. You can ignore me if you want. That's okay. Frank
Re: Bet on with my boss
Martin Hannigan wrote: Regards, -- Martin Hannigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Boston, MA http://www.fugawi.net On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Vincent J. Bono wrote: We recently had a piece of equipment fail outside of Bronson, FL. This was in a regeneration hut, 50 miles from almost anywhere useful. There is no cellular service and no POTs in the HUT. The closest employee was a woman who although bright was not very familiar with the equipment installed. Because the management channel (IP) was still working to the site, an engineer here in Quincy, MA was able to step her through fixing the problem using nothing but IRC and two-way pager. It took her 35 minutes to correct the issue. Harder than with a phone? Yes. Impossible? No. Without that IP channel running? It would have taken closer to an hour and a half by my guess but still doable. Smoke signals or semaphore? I won't hazard a guess. -vb Regards, -- Martin Hannigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Boston, MA http://www.fugawi.net On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Vincent J. Bono wrote: Harder than with a phone? Yes. Impossible? No. Without that IP channel running? It would have taken closer to an hour and a half by my guess but still doable. Smoke signals or semaphore? I won't hazard a guess. That's it. I'm giving semaphore classes at the BBQ. :) BBQ? really? When? Where? Jane begin:vcard n:Pawlukiewicz;Jane tel;cell:703 517-2591 tel;fax:703 289-5814 tel;work:703 289-5307 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Booz Allen Hamilton;Visit us on the Internet: a href=http://boozallen.com;BoozOnline/a adr:;; version:2.1 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Senior Consultant fn:Jane Pawlukiewicz end:vcard
Re: Bet on with my boss
JW Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 18:59:52 -0700 (PDT) JW From: Joe Wood JW My understanding is that there are two orderwire circuits on JW any (vendor supported) SONET transmission system, E1 and E2. JW E1 allows for SOH orderwire between SONET sections (Regen JW sites/Huts), E2 allows for LOH orderwire between SONET line JW terminating equipment (adm). If all else fails, read the manual... Yes, E1 and E2 are the DS0 channels of which I was thinking. Eddy -- Brotsman Dreger, Inc. - EverQuick Internet Division Bandwidth, consulting, e-commerce, hosting, and network building Phone: +1 (785) 865-5885 Lawrence and [inter]national Phone: +1 (316) 794-8922 Wichita ~ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:23:58 + (GMT) From: A Trap [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Please ignore this portion of my mail signature. These last few lines are a trap for address-harvesting spambots. Do NOT send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], or you are likely to be blocked.
Re: Bet on with my boss
Hi Greg Gregory Hicks wrote: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 19:22:29 -0100 From: Pawlukiewicz Jane [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: steve uurtamo [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Bet on with my boss [...] No. That's not what the bet is about. Sorry. The bet was if I could stop the various SPEWS threads. [...] Actually, the moderator (list 'owner') for nanog told the instigator to quit or '... off the list...' they say, timing is everything. And COB Friday was the bet, of course, cob friday on what continent was never discussed so . . . Jane
Bet on with my boss
Hi, How important is the phone to you? I mean, given some situation that arises, can we solve it without the phones? Just curious. You can ignore me if you want. That's okay. Jane begin:vcard n:Pawlukiewicz;Jane tel;cell:703 517-2591 tel;fax:703 289-5814 tel;work:703 289-5307 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Booz Allen Hamilton;Visit us on the Internet: a href=http://boozallen.com;BoozOnline/a adr:;; version:2.1 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Senior Consultant fn:Jane Pawlukiewicz end:vcard
Re: Bet on with my boss
On Fri, Jun 21, 2002 at 03:37:56PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Hi, How important is the phone to you? I mean, given some situation that arises, can we solve it without the phones? If the network is down, the phone is critical. For any complicated problem, the phone is also critical. If the phone network is down too, a cell phone may also be important. There's no substitute for an actual face-to-face conversation, either. -- Scott Francis darkuncle@ [home:] d a r k u n c l e . n e t Systems/Network Manager sfrancis@ [work:] t o n o s . c o m GPG public key 0xCB33CCA7 illum oportet crescere me autem minui msg02912/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: Bet on with my boss
-Original Message- From: Pawlukiewicz Jane Hi, How important is the phone to you? I mean, given some situation that arises, can we solve it without the phones? on 9/11 most telco lines into and out of NYC were congested or non-functioning. Even cell phones were impacted because they ultimately use wirelines. But, not withstanding all of the telco problems AIM, IRC, and email worked best for communications. Now, whether or not you would be able to solve problems without vocal communications remains to be seen. Ultimately it revolves around having the ability to adequately define the problem in writing as well as having good a reader ready to interpret your message. -Jim P.
Re: Bet on with my boss
On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Pawlukiewicz Jane wrote: Hi, How important is the phone to you? I mean, given some situation that arises, can we solve it without the phones? Just curious. You can ignore me if you want. That's okay. I probably should take your advice, but that's an interestingly ambiguous question so I'll indulge on a slow Friday afternoon. Anything to derail that spews thread. phone is a tricky word. By phone do you mean an actual handset? Or do you mean a handset with a pots line? Or does your definition include voip? Or do you mean phone to encompass all audio communication devices? Or do you mean phones to represent the entire PSTN? What kind of situation are you referring to? A small bowel accident? Or a fiber cut? Your kid got in a fight at school? Or are most of your frame relay circuits bouncing? Basically, anybody can answer whatever they want based on the lack of detail in the question. I'd love to take both sides of the bet so I can collect from both you and your boss... Andy Andy Dills 301-682-9972 Xecunet, LLCwww.xecu.net Dialup * Webhosting * E-Commerce * High-Speed Access
Re[2]: Bet on with my boss
On Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:42:23 -0700 Scott Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jun 21, 2002 at 03:37:56PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: How important is the phone to you? I mean, given some situation that arises, can we solve it without the phones? If the network is down, the phone is critical. For any complicated problem, the phone is also critical. and in particular, one point that the inexperienced often overlook, but probably 99% of the readership of this list is familiar with, is that a modem in a remote equipment cabinet is a good thing, as when you blow a router config and it stops talking to the network, dialing into it via said modem is the only quick path to saving your job. richard -- Richard Welty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Averill Park Networking 518-573-7592 Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security
Re: Bet on with my boss
Oh you made me laugh ... thanks, Jane Sam Hayes Merritt, III wrote: On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Pawlukiewicz Jane wrote: Hi, How important is the phone to you? I mean, given some situation that arises, can we solve it without the phones? Just curious. You can ignore me if you want. That's okay. Jane To me, personally, as an individual and not speaking as an admin, i could give a damn. Try not to use the flipping things except very rarely, irritating nuisances they are. To me, speaking as someone who works as a clec/cable company/isp, they're purty damn important. Phones can save lives. Without them, its damn hard to reach emergency service so nearly every house now has one. But the internet, you can get by just fine without it now. It doesn't yet have a killer app ;) sam begin:vcard n:Pawlukiewicz;Jane tel;cell:703 517-2591 tel;fax:703 289-5814 tel;work:703 289-5307 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Booz Allen Hamilton;Visit us on the Internet: a href=http://boozallen.com;BoozOnline/a adr:;; version:2.1 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Senior Consultant fn:Jane Pawlukiewicz end:vcard
Re: Bet on with my boss
Andy Dills wrote: On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Pawlukiewicz Jane wrote: Hi, How important is the phone to you? I mean, given some situation that arises, can we solve it without the phones? Just curious. You can ignore me if you want. That's okay. I probably should take your advice, but that's an interestingly ambiguous question so I'll indulge on a slow Friday afternoon. Anything to derail that spews thread. phone is a tricky word. By phone do you mean an actual handset? Or do you mean a handset with a pots line? Or does your definition include voip? Or do you mean phone to encompass all audio communication devices? Or do you mean phones to represent the entire PSTN? What kind of situation are you referring to? A small bowel accident? Or a fiber cut? Your kid got in a fight at school? Or are most of your frame relay circuits bouncing? Basically, anybody can answer whatever they want based on the lack of detail in the question. I'd love to take both sides of the bet so I can collect from both you and your boss... I bet you could. By phone I mean PSTN and by situation, I mean something involving a SNAFU on your network (excuse me, IP network), another network your network depends on. Clear? Andy Andy Dills 301-682-9972 Xecunet, LLCwww.xecu.net Dialup * Webhosting * E-Commerce * High-Speed Access Thanks for not ignoring me ;) Jane BTW, what does FIARK mean? begin:vcard n:Pawlukiewicz;Jane tel;cell:703 517-2591 tel;fax:703 289-5814 tel;work:703 289-5307 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Booz Allen Hamilton;Visit us on the Internet: a href=http://boozallen.com;BoozOnline/a adr:;; version:2.1 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Senior Consultant fn:Jane Pawlukiewicz end:vcard
Re: Bet on with my boss
Thus spake Pawlukiewicz Jane [EMAIL PROTECTED] How important is the phone to you? I mean, given some situation that arises, can we solve it without the phones? Just curious. The problem is typically locating the person you need to communicate with, not the medium. Telephone has the advantage of speed, and IM/IRC has the advantage of easy multitasking. Probably a draw in many situations. S
RE: Bet on with my boss
IM/IRC/email also has the ability to copy/paste text, so it's a lot easier than trying to tell someone something complex over the phone (command to type in, circuit ID, TT# or such). - James -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Stephen Sprunk Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 4:38 PM To: Pawlukiewicz Jane; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Bet on with my boss Thus spake Pawlukiewicz Jane [EMAIL PROTECTED] How important is the phone to you? I mean, given some situation that arises, can we solve it without the phones? Just curious. The problem is typically locating the person you need to communicate with, not the medium. Telephone has the advantage of speed, and IM/IRC has the advantage of easy multitasking. Probably a draw in many situations. S
Re: Bet on with my boss
We recently had a piece of equipment fail outside of Bronson, FL. This was in a regeneration hut, 50 miles from almost anywhere useful. There is no cellular service and no POTs in the HUT. The closest employee was a woman who although bright was not very familiar with the equipment installed. Because the management channel (IP) was still working to the site, an engineer here in Quincy, MA was able to step her through fixing the problem using nothing but IRC and two-way pager. It took her 35 minutes to correct the issue. Harder than with a phone? Yes. Impossible? No. Without that IP channel running? It would have taken closer to an hour and a half by my guess but still doable. Smoke signals or semaphore? I won't hazard a guess. -vb - Original Message - From: Pawlukiewicz Jane [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 3:37 PM Subject: Bet on with my boss Hi, How important is the phone to you? I mean, given some situation that arises, can we solve it without the phones? Just curious. You can ignore me if you want. That's okay. Jane
Re: Bet on with my boss
Regards, -- Martin Hannigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Boston, MA http://www.fugawi.net On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Vincent J. Bono wrote: We recently had a piece of equipment fail outside of Bronson, FL. This was in a regeneration hut, 50 miles from almost anywhere useful. There is no cellular service and no POTs in the HUT. The closest employee was a woman who although bright was not very familiar with the equipment installed. Because the management channel (IP) was still working to the site, an engineer here in Quincy, MA was able to step her through fixing the problem using nothing but IRC and two-way pager. It took her 35 minutes to correct the issue. Harder than with a phone? Yes. Impossible? No. Without that IP channel running? It would have taken closer to an hour and a half by my guess but still doable. Smoke signals or semaphore? I won't hazard a guess. -vb Regards, -- Martin Hannigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Boston, MA http://www.fugawi.net On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Vincent J. Bono wrote: Harder than with a phone? Yes. Impossible? No. Without that IP channel running? It would have taken closer to an hour and a half by my guess but still doable. Smoke signals or semaphore? I won't hazard a guess. That's it. I'm giving semaphore classes at the BBQ. :)
Re: Bet on with my boss
steve uurtamo wrote: especially with the you can ignore this if you want to, i'd have to say that the most interesting part of your question was that the bet is not neccesarily related to the question itself. my guess is that you guys bet on how many responses the question would generate. :) No. That's not what the bet is about. Sorry. The bet was if I could stop the various SPEWS threads. But I am actually curious about this. Because, you see, genuity, as I understand it, restored phone service to lower manhattan post 9/11 through voice over ip. And I was just wondering how they would fix a shafu with the internet if the only phone service was Voice over IP. And that got me thinking about this whole convergence, you know, when we all migrate to a packet switched network and the telcos are all bankrupt. And I wondered if anyone else needs/hates the phone the way I do. That's all. I think I stopped the spews thread. Thanks for your support. Jane s.
Re: Bet on with my boss
We have this wonderful invention called two-way radio. (grin) Our repeater has an autopatch, so you can hold a conversation from any landline to the mobile unit in the field or vice versa. Its been real helpful, like when aligning microwave dishes. At 18:04 6/21/02 -0400, you wrote: We recently had a piece of equipment fail outside of Bronson, FL. This was in a regeneration hut, 50 miles from almost anywhere useful. There is no cellular service and no POTs in the HUT. The closest employee was a woman who although bright was not very familiar with the equipment installed. Because the management channel (IP) was still working to the site, an engineer here in Quincy, MA was able to step her through fixing the problem using nothing but IRC and two-way pager. It took her 35 minutes to correct the issue. Harder than with a phone? Yes. Impossible? No. Without that IP channel running? It would have taken closer to an hour and a half by my guess but still doable. Smoke signals or semaphore? I won't hazard a guess. -vb Some sort of orderwire channel might be helpful in this situation as well, as long as the fiber is up, youll have a voice grade line to the NOC.
Re: Bet on with my boss
b Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 19:43:30 -0400 b From: blitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] b Some sort of orderwire channel might be helpful in this b situation as well, as long as the fiber is up, youll have a b voice grade line to the NOC. SONET provides for a (couple?) DS0 channels in the headers. Eddy -- Brotsman Dreger, Inc. - EverQuick Internet Division Bandwidth, consulting, e-commerce, hosting, and network building Phone: +1 (785) 865-5885 Lawrence and [inter]national Phone: +1 (316) 794-8922 Wichita ~ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:23:58 + (GMT) From: A Trap [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Please ignore this portion of my mail signature. These last few lines are a trap for address-harvesting spambots. Do NOT send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], or you are likely to be blocked.
Re: Bet on with my boss
It took her 35 minutes to correct the issue. ^^ That's my Rule of Nine, to wit: It takes nine times as long over the phone as it does in person. Where it consists of fixing something by typing commands. I fixed a bunch of badly destroyed disk mirrors once, at 3 a.m., with my eyes closed, lying in bed. Took 45 minutes. Would have taken 5 minutes if I were driving. (But it couldn't reach the machine directly myself, so I stayed in bed and talked someone else through it.)
