RE: Homeland Security now wants to restrict outage notifications
I did read the article and having worked for gov't agencies twice in my career a proposal like the one floated by DHS is just the camel's nose. I should hope the carriers oppose this. Now a call comes into our ops center I cant reach my experiment at Stanford. Ops looks up the outages Oh yeah there's a fiber cut affecting service we will let you know when it's fixed. They check it's fixed they call the customer telling them to try it now. Under the proposed regime We know its dead do not know why or when it will be fixed because it' classified information This makes for absolutely wonderful customer service and it protects public safety how?. Scott C. McGrath On Thu, 24 Jun 2004, Tad Grosvenor wrote: Did you read the article? The DHS is urging that the FCC drop the proposal to require outage reporting for significant outages. This isn't the DHS saying that outage notifications should be muted. The article also mentions: Telecom companies are generally against the proposed new reporting requirements, arguing that the industry's voluntary efforts are sufficient. -Tad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott McGrath Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 12:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Homeland Security now wants to restrict outage notifications See http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/24/network_outages/ for the gory details. The Sean Gorman debacle was just the beginning this country is becoming more like the Soviet Union under Stalin every passing day in its xenophobic paranoia all we need now is a new version of the NKVD to enforce the homeland security directives. Scott C. McGrath
RE: Homeland Security now wants to restrict outage notifications
I agree, there are much more important things to protect than this information. It would be almost impossible to manage, and even more unlikely to ever have a positive effect. Besides, if someone with ill intentions has the abilities to act so quickly on such short notice, then we have much greater failures of our intelligence system that would need to be addressed. LP Best Regards, Larry Larry Pingree Visionary people, are visionary, partly because of the great many things they never get to see. - Larry Pingree -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott McGrath Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 11:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Homeland Security now wants to restrict outage notifications I did read the article and having worked for gov't agencies twice in my career a proposal like the one floated by DHS is just the camel's nose. I should hope the carriers oppose this. Now a call comes into our ops center I cant reach my experiment at Stanford. Ops looks up the outages Oh yeah there's a fiber cut affecting service we will let you know when it's fixed. They check it's fixed they call the customer telling them to try it now. Under the proposed regime We know its dead do not know why or when it will be fixed because it' classified information This makes for absolutely wonderful customer service and it protects public safety how?. Scott C. McGrath On Thu, 24 Jun 2004, Tad Grosvenor wrote: Did you read the article? The DHS is urging that the FCC drop the proposal to require outage reporting for significant outages. This isn't the DHS saying that outage notifications should be muted. The article also mentions: Telecom companies are generally against the proposed new reporting requirements, arguing that the industry's voluntary efforts are sufficient. -Tad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott McGrath Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 12:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Homeland Security now wants to restrict outage notifications See http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/24/network_outages/ for the gory details. The Sean Gorman debacle was just the beginning this country is becoming more like the Soviet Union under Stalin every passing day in its xenophobic paranoia all we need now is a new version of the NKVD to enforce the homeland security directives. Scott C. McGrath
Re: Homeland Security now wants to restrict outage notifications
I think you (and possibly The Register) are overreacting. The DHS is doing what it is paid to do: Look for the worst case scenario, predict the damage. And the reporting requirements that the DHS is arguing against _aren't even in effect yet._ ** Reply to message from Scott McGrath [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:05:56 -0400 (EDT) I did read the article and having worked for gov't agencies twice in my career a proposal like the one floated by DHS is just the camel's nose. I should hope the carriers oppose this. Now a call comes into our ops center I cant reach my experiment at Stanford. Ops looks up the outages Oh yeah there's a fiber cut affecting service we will let you know when it's fixed. They check it's fixed they call the customer telling them to try it now. Under the proposed regime We know its dead do not know why or when it will be fixed because it' classified information This makes for absolutely wonderful customer service and it protects public safety how?. Scott C. McGrath On Thu, 24 Jun 2004, Tad Grosvenor wrote: Did you read the article? The DHS is urging that the FCC drop the proposal to require outage reporting for significant outages. This isn't the DHS saying that outage notifications should be muted. The article also mentions: Telecom companies are generally against the proposed new reporting requirements, arguing that the industry's voluntary efforts are sufficient. -Tad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott McGrath Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 12:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Homeland Security now wants to restrict outage notifications See http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/24/network_outages/ for the gory details. The Sean Gorman debacle was just the beginning this country is becoming more like the Soviet Union under Stalin every passing day in its xenophobic paranoia all we need now is a new version of the NKVD to enforce the homeland security directives. Scott C. McGrath -- Jeff Shultz A railfan pulls up to a RR crossing hoping that there will be a train.
Re: Homeland Security now wants to restrict outage notifications
On 6/24/2004 11:57 AM, Scott McGrath wrote: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/24/network_outages/ http://www.securityfocus.com/news/8966 is the original, for those of us who have our doubts about the register as a news source To summarize: there are existing FCC requirements to report major voice outages the FCC ran a proposal up the flag pole to extend this to data and wireless networks DHS did their job by analyzing the proposal and suggesting that it might not be a good idea to make the additional data too public Further: If the FCC is going to mandate reporting, the DHS argued, it should channel the data to a more circumspect group: the Telecom ISAC (Information Sharing and Analysis Center), an existing voluntary clearinghouse for communications-related vulnerability information, whose members include several government agencies and all the major communications carriers. Data exchanged within the Telecom-ISAC is protected from public disclosure. Presumably the FCC will take this opinion into consideration and weigh it alongside clear-headed debates as: this country is becoming more like the Soviet Union under Stalin every passing day in its xenophobic paranoia all we need now is a new version of the NKVD to enforce the homeland security directives. At least the paranoia is right -- Eric A. Hallhttp://www.ehsco.com/ Internet Core Protocols http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/coreprot/
Re: Homeland Security now wants to restrict outage notifications
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:27:10 PDT, Jeff Shultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: The DHS is doing what it is paid to do: Look for the worst case scenario, predict the damage. At some point, somebody with some sanity needs to look at the proposal, and say If we think we have to resort to this, then the terrorists have already won. And the reporting requirements that the DHS is arguing against _aren't even in effect yet._ Wander over to www.chillingeffects.org or Ed Felton's www.freedom-to-tinker.org or any number of other sites that keep track of just how much trouble can be caused by the *threat* or *suggestion* of something pgpXgAYKYfofl.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Homeland Security now wants to restrict outage notifications
I think you (and possibly The Register) are overreacting. With the current state of the government and it's previous legislation, I would consider that not overreacting at all... We as NANOG'ers need to make sure that we're in the clue. The issue of non-information leads for longer troubleshooting, and more irate customers. To each his own, however.. Thanks, Adam Adam 'Starblazer' Romberg Appleton: 920-738-9032 System Administrator Valley Fair: 920-968-7713 ExtremePC LLC-=- http://www.extremepcgaming.net
RE: Homeland Security now wants to restrict outage notifications
I also believe that critical infrastructure needs to be protected and I am charged with protecting a good chunk of it. Also as a Ham operator I work in concert with the various emergency management organizations in dealing with possible worst case scenarios. No, not everyone who asks about some piece of infrastructure under my control gets an answer but for now we can still choose who receives an answer without you having to contact a govt agency and ask whether I can respond to a query from Joe Shmoe. Unfortunately information=power and control of information is power^2 and many people in the permanent bureaucracy are there only in pursuit of power over others and 9/11 was a wonderful excuse to extend their scope of control over people's everyday lives. Right now in Boston cameras are now illegal in the subway for 'security reasons' who hasnt had a picture taken with their friends on the way to/from a gathering on the subway. Back when I was younger the only places with restrictions like that were the countries Iron Curtain. In the 50's my family helped resettle refugees from Hungary in the aftermath of the failed Hungarian Revolution freedom is a valuable thing unfortunately we are losing it bit by bit. Scott C. McGrath On Thu, 24 Jun 2004, Harris, Michael C. wrote: Scott McGrath said: See http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/24/network_outages/ for the gory details. The Sean Gorman debacle was just the beginning this country is becoming more like the Soviet Union under Stalin every passing day in its xenophobic paranoia all we need now is a new version of the NKVD to enforce the homeland security directives. Scott C. McGrath -- Ask and you shall receive! Fresh from the DHS website yesterday morning. (quoting the end of the 4th paragraph below) In addition, HSIN-CI network, in partnership with the FBI, provides a reporting feature that allows the public to submit information about suspicious activities through the FBI Tips Program that is then shared with the Department's HSOC. Just call the party hotline and report your neighbors, coworkers and friends... Don't get me wrong, I am a supporter of protecting critical infrastructure. There are already programs, Infragard is an example, that perform the same kind of information sharing by choice rather than decree. Infragard is supported by public private and sectors both, with similar support from the FBI. (yes, I am an Infragard member just to be 100% above board) Mike Harris Umh.edu -- http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?content=3748 Homeland Security Launches Critical Infrastructure Pilot Program to Bolster Private Sector Security - Dallas First of Four Pilot Communities Sharing Targeted Threat Information For Immediate Release Office of the Press Secretary Contact: 202-282-8010 June 23, 2004 Homeland Security Information Network - Critical Infrastructure The U.S. Department of Homeland Security in partnership with local private sector and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, today launched the first Homeland Security Information Network-Critical Infrastructure (HSIN-CI) Pilot Program in Dallas, Texas with locally operated pilot programs in Seattle, Indianapolis and Atlanta to follow. The pilot program will operate throughout the course of this year to determine the feasibility of using this model for other cities across the country. The HSIN-CI pilot program, modeled after the FBI Dallas Emergency Response Network expands the reach of the Department's Homeland Security Information Network (HSIN) initiative--a counterterrorism communications tool that connects 50 states, five territories, Washington, D.C., and 50 major urban areas to strengthen the exchange of threat information--to critical infrastructure owners and operators in a variety of industries and locations, first responders and local officials. As part of the HSIN-CI pilot program, more than 25,000 members of the network will have access to unclassified sector specific information and alert notifications on a 24/7 basis. The Homeland is more secure when each hometown is more secure, said Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge. HSIN-CI connects our communities - the government community to the private sector community to the law enforcement community -- the better we share information between our partners, the more quickly we are able to implement security measures where necessary. The HSIN-CI network allows local and regional areas to receive targeted alerts and notifications in real-time from Department's Homeland Security Operations Center (HSOC) using standard communication devices including wired and wireless telephones, email, facsimile and text pagers. The network requires no additional hardware or software for
Re: Homeland Security now wants to restrict outage notifications
On 6/24/2004 2:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:27:10 PDT, Jeff Shultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: And the reporting requirements that the DHS is arguing against _aren't even in effect yet._ or any number of other sites that keep track of just how much trouble can be caused by the *threat* or *suggestion* of something Was it really your intention to imply that this recommendation (and which should have been expected, given the DHS' job) is some kind of a threat? -- Eric A. Hallhttp://www.ehsco.com/ Internet Core Protocols http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/coreprot/
Re: Homeland Security now wants to restrict outage notifications
Consider the source of policy makers that make these decisions, are clueless to networks and infrastructure themselves. They fail to understand any costing metrics by adding another loop of useless people to he cycle at the expense of everyone, which will in the long run be damaging to the economy of those companies who will then move those centers offshore to remove the DHS from their loop, which causes job loss and skill base destruction beyond what it already is in the US. My vote on this proposal is no and contact my gov rep and complain. -Henry --- Adam 'Starblazer' Romberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think you (and possibly The Register) are overreacting. With the current state of the government and it's previous legislation, I would consider that not overreacting at all... We as NANOG'ers need to make sure that we're in the clue. The issue of non-information leads for longer troubleshooting, and more irate customers. To each his own, however.. Thanks, Adam Adam 'Starblazer' Romberg Appleton: 920-738-9032 System Administrator Valley Fair: 920-968-7713 ExtremePC LLC-=- http://www.extremepcgaming.net
