Re: IANA reserved Address Space
snip blah Since all of the replies have been pretty close to the same (Use RFC1918 ...etc), I'd like to rephrase it to answer a curiosity of mine. The answers seemed correct, rephrasing wont change current systems or policies to suit you! RFC1918 is a set number of IP addresses. If you are working on a private network lab Use anything you like, its private. that will be on the internet eventually or have parts on the internet and exceeds the total number of IPV4 addressing set aside in Follow the current policy for public Internet Address space, get what IPs you need, implement NAT where/if possible. RFC1918, and IPV6 private addressing is not an option, what can you do? (I thats the way it is, take it or leave it.. Steve know it's a stretch, but I think it asks specifically what Brennan wants to know and what I'm curious about now) IPV6 would seem to be the best answer overall since it has already been determined the solution for limited addressing, but there is still equipment/software and such that does not support it. Brennan, is a mix of IPV6 and IPV4 private addressing an option for you? I do have to agree wholeheartedly that using address space not assigned to you is unprofessional, and will cause someone headaches later even if it is not you. Gerald
Re: IANA reserved Address Space
On Fri, 30 May 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm tasked with coming up with an IP plan for an very large lab network. I want to maximize route table manageability and router/firewall log readability. I was thinking of building this lab with the following address space: 1.0.0.0 /8 10.0.0.0 /8 100.0.0.0 /8 I encourage my competitors to do this. or read another way, this is fairly stupid, but as log as this stupidity doesn't affect me, I don't care. However the person tasked with cleaning tha crap up behind you may not feel the same. Doing something right, the first time saves having to do it over again and again and again and again. If this is a test lab or a learning/practice lab where the users will be simulating real-world scenarios and/or doing NAT and other things that involve public/private addressing issues, then it would IMHO be suitable to use a mix of reserved private space and routable space as appropriate. The only difference between routed and unrouted (note the difference between that and routable) is consensus. There is nothing inherent in the bits which prevents RFC1918 from being routed globally. There is no requirement to use RFC1918 for NAT. Therefore, your argument doesn't hold water. If the entity for some stupid reason can't use RFC1918, they can and should use their _own_ address space for the balance.
RE: IANA reserved Address Space
OK, I see now that down the road using a 1 and 100 net address on the lab would create unmanageable problems if those nets were ever put into use on the internet... something NAT couldnt fix. And the responses saying use 1918 space point out the potential problems were this lab ever to leak out an advertisement on to the internet, etc all advice I appreciate people have taken the time to offer. But not to be a pest but what are the odds the IANA would ever allocate the 1 and 100 nets to someone? Is this an unpredictable matter or is there a schedule of what's next somewhere? Or which is more likely, the world adopts IP v6 or the 1 and 100 nets are deployed on the internet? :-) It is apparent that I really want to use these address ranges but I do need to grapple with the possibility that this lab will need internet connectivity at some point. -Original Message- From: Murphy, Brennan Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 8:49 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IANA reserved Address Space Others have pointed out that I should stick to RFC 1918 address space. But again, this is a lab network and to use the words of another, one of the things I want to do is make it much easier to parse visually my route tables. Think of it as a metric system type of numbering plan. The 1 and 100 nets would not be advertised via BGP obviously...not a hijack situation at all. If I take into account the possibility that this lab will have later requirements to connect to the internet, all I have to do is have a NAT plan in place...one that even takes into account that the 1 and 100 nets could become available some day, correct? Thanks to those who have responded so far. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 8:08 AM To: Murphy, Brennan Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: IANA reserved Address Space networks 1 and 100 are reserved for future delegation. network 10 is delegated for private networks, such as your lab. if you use networks 1 and 100, you are hijacking these numbers. that said, as long as your lab is never going to connect to the Internet, you may want to consider using the following prefixes: 4.0.0.0/8 38.0.0.0/8 127.0.0.0/8 192.0.0.0/8 I'm tasked with coming up with an IP plan for an very large lab network. I want to maximize route table manageability and router/firewall log readability. I was thinking of building this lab with the following address space: 1.0.0.0 /8 10.0.0.0 /8 100.0.0.0 /8 I need 3 distinct zones which is why I wanted to separate them out. In any case, I was wondering about the status of the 1 /8 and the 100 /8 networks. What does it mean that they are IANA reserved? Reserved for what? http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space Anyone else ever use IANA reserved address spacing for lab networks? Is there anything special I need to know? I'm under the impression that as long as I stay away from special use address space, I've got no worries. http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3330.txt Thanks, BM
Re: IANA reserved Address Space
On Fri, 30 May 2003 05:49:28 PDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: one of the things I want to do is make it much easier to parse visually my route tables. Might want to use networks 4/8, 16/8, and 64/8 - they stand out nicely when looking at net numbers in hex or binary. ;) pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: IANA reserved Address Space
Brennan, If you want your routes to be human parse'able, I recommend running your lab in full IPv6 mode. That way you take Valdis's recommendation to a whole new level (and base number system). Plus... Whats the point of having a lab that only uses 1982/1983 addressing techniques (1/8, 10/8, 100/8 are classfull addresses). Labs are meant to push the limits of todays technology and experiment with future concepts. IPv6 matches that criteria. Martin --- At 10:07 AM 5/30/2003 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 30 May 2003 05:49:28 PDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: one of the things I want to do is make it much easier to parse visually my route tables. Might want to use networks 4/8, 16/8, and 64/8 - they stand out nicely when looking at net numbers in hex or binary. ;)
RE: IANA reserved Address Space
Given that unallocated class A address space represents one of the biggest chunks of remaining address space fairly likely... you'll notice that 60/8 was assigned in april 03 to apnic, lacnic was assigned 2 /8s in the last year and so forth... On Fri, 30 May 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But not to be a pest but what are the odds the IANA would ever allocate the 1 and 100 nets to someone? Is this an unpredictable matter or is there a schedule of what's next somewhere? Or which is more likely, the world adopts IP v6 or the 1 and 100 nets are deployed on the internet? :-) It is apparent that I really want to use these address ranges but I do need to grapple with the possibility that this lab will need internet connectivity at some point. -Original Message- From: Murphy, Brennan Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 8:49 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IANA reserved Address Space Others have pointed out that I should stick to RFC 1918 address space. But again, this is a lab network and to use the words of another, one of the things I want to do is make it much easier to parse visually my route tables. Think of it as a metric system type of numbering plan. The 1 and 100 nets would not be advertised via BGP obviously...not a hijack situation at all. If I take into account the possibility that this lab will have later requirements to connect to the internet, all I have to do is have a NAT plan in place...one that even takes into account that the 1 and 100 nets could become available some day, correct? Thanks to those who have responded so far. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 8:08 AM To: Murphy, Brennan Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: IANA reserved Address Space networks 1 and 100 are reserved for future delegation. network 10 is delegated for private networks, such as your lab. if you use networks 1 and 100, you are hijacking these numbers. that said, as long as your lab is never going to connect to the Internet, you may want to consider using the following prefixes: 4.0.0.0/8 38.0.0.0/8 127.0.0.0/8 192.0.0.0/8 I'm tasked with coming up with an IP plan for an very large lab network. I want to maximize route table manageability and router/firewall log readability. I was thinking of building this lab with the following address space: 1.0.0.0 /8 10.0.0.0 /8 100.0.0.0 /8 I need 3 distinct zones which is why I wanted to separate them out. In any case, I was wondering about the status of the 1 /8 and the 100 /8 networks. What does it mean that they are IANA reserved? Reserved for what? http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space Anyone else ever use IANA reserved address spacing for lab networks? Is there anything special I need to know? I'm under the impression that as long as I stay away from special use address space, I've got no worries. http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3330.txt Thanks, BM -- -- Joel Jaeggli Academic User Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] --PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -- In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of the scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first. -- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
RE: IANA reserved Address Space
I've got replies ranging from great idea, totally understand what youre trying to do to moron just use 1918. So I guess a bit more about the scenario is in order. This lab *could* be filled with millions of hosts (real/simulated) and thousands of networks (real/simulated). This lab is a sort of add on to an existing lab built out of 1918 address space---10, 172, 192. Two zones will be created consisting of 172 192 space and the other would be 1 10 100. Firewalls will separate the two as well as other subzones, etc. I've been asked to investigate how to make it easy to do the following: 1) create manageable and quickly adaptable firewall rulesets 2) create an IP plan that will lend itself to quick human parsing both in routing tables and router/firewall logs 3) consider that the lab will likely have machines that require patching/updates, etc from the real internet. Imagine you want to create an environment for experiments. You want to reduce complexity as much as possible and create a scenario where feedback of a test is quick...doesnt require much memorization of what is what and that allows you to suddenly stop and rerun tests. Rapidly. Think of access lists,route tables, firewall rulesets and logs. If you're running tests do you want too see results such as 192.168.22.0, 172.16.89.22, 10.129.20.222, 10.12.22.2? Wouldnt it be easier if your test results looked like this: 1.10.1.1, 10.10.1.1, 100.10.1.1, 1.1.1.1, 10.1.1.1, 100.1.1.1, etc? ThanksI really appreciate everyone's feedback on this. -Original Message- From: Murphy, Brennan Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 9:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IANA reserved Address Space OK, I see now that down the road using a 1 and 100 net address on the lab would create unmanageable problems if those nets were ever put into use on the internet... something NAT couldnt fix. And the responses saying use 1918 space point out the potential problems were this lab ever to leak out an advertisement on to the internet, etc all advice I appreciate people have taken the time to offer. But not to be a pest but what are the odds the IANA would ever allocate the 1 and 100 nets to someone? Is this an unpredictable matter or is there a schedule of what's next somewhere? Or which is more likely, the world adopts IP v6 or the 1 and 100 nets are deployed on the internet? :-) It is apparent that I really want to use these address ranges but I do need to grapple with the possibility that this lab will need internet connectivity at some point. -Original Message- From: Murphy, Brennan Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 8:49 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IANA reserved Address Space Others have pointed out that I should stick to RFC 1918 address space. But again, this is a lab network and to use the words of another, one of the things I want to do is make it much easier to parse visually my route tables. Think of it as a metric system type of numbering plan. The 1 and 100 nets would not be advertised via BGP obviously...not a hijack situation at all. If I take into account the possibility that this lab will have later requirements to connect to the internet, all I have to do is have a NAT plan in place...one that even takes into account that the 1 and 100 nets could become available some day, correct? Thanks to those who have responded so far. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 8:08 AM To: Murphy, Brennan Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: IANA reserved Address Space networks 1 and 100 are reserved for future delegation. network 10 is delegated for private networks, such as your lab. if you use networks 1 and 100, you are hijacking these numbers. that said, as long as your lab is never going to connect to the Internet, you may want to consider using the following prefixes: 4.0.0.0/8 38.0.0.0/8 127.0.0.0/8 192.0.0.0/8 I'm tasked with coming up with an IP plan for an very large lab network. I want to maximize route table manageability and router/firewall log readability. I was thinking of building this lab with the following address space: 1.0.0.0 /8 10.0.0.0 /8 100.0.0.0 /8 I need 3 distinct zones which is why I wanted to separate them out. In any case, I was wondering about the status of the 1 /8 and the 100 /8 networks. What does it mean that they are IANA reserved? Reserved for what? http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space Anyone else ever use IANA reserved address spacing for lab networks? Is there anything special I need to know? I'm under the impression that as long as I stay away from special use address space, I've got no worries. http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3330.txt Thanks, BM
RE: IANA reserved Address Space
If your net 1 and your net 100 talk to each other in your lab, what sort of NAT plan would allow your net 1 to distinguish between your net 100 and the real net 100? Really... There are three different zones of RFC-1918 space, so your routing tables should still be pretty easy to visually parse. Owen --On Friday, May 30, 2003 5:49 AM -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Others have pointed out that I should stick to RFC 1918 address space. But again, this is a lab network and to use the words of another, one of the things I want to do is make it much easier to parse visually my route tables. Think of it as a metric system type of numbering plan. The 1 and 100 nets would not be advertised via BGP obviously...not a hijack situation at all. If I take into account the possibility that this lab will have later requirements to connect to the internet, all I have to do is have a NAT plan in place...one that even takes into account that the 1 and 100 nets could become available some day, correct? Thanks to those who have responded so far. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 8:08 AM To: Murphy, Brennan Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: IANA reserved Address Space networks 1 and 100 are reserved for future delegation. network 10 is delegated for private networks, such as your lab. if you use networks 1 and 100, you are hijacking these numbers. that said, as long as your lab is never going to connect to the Internet, you may want to consider using the following prefixes: 4.0.0.0/8 38.0.0.0/8 127.0.0.0/8 192.0.0.0/8 I'm tasked with coming up with an IP plan for an very large lab network. I want to maximize route table manageability and router/firewall log readability. I was thinking of building this lab with the following address space: 1.0.0.0 /8 10.0.0.0 /8 100.0.0.0 /8 I need 3 distinct zones which is why I wanted to separate them out. In any case, I was wondering about the status of the 1 /8 and the 100 /8 networks. What does it mean that they are IANA reserved? Reserved for what? http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space Anyone else ever use IANA reserved address spacing for lab networks? Is there anything special I need to know? I'm under the impression that as long as I stay away from special use address space, I've got no worries. http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3330.txt Thanks, BM
Re: IANA reserved Address Space
This lab *could* be filled with millions of hosts (real/simulated) and thousands of networks (real/simulated). This lab is yup. built several of those over the years. last simulated network had 100,000 networks, ASNs et.al. (built it all inside a single host!) 1) create manageable and quickly adaptable firewall rulesets 2) create an IP plan that will lend itself to quick human parsing both in routing tables and router/firewall logs 3) consider that the lab will likely have machines that require patching/updates, etc from the real internet. if this is supposed to represent realworld, then use realworld numbers. design your lab so that patches/updates go to staging platforms and then pull into your lab from those - no direct network connections. Imagine you want to create an environment for experiments. You want to reduce complexity as much as possible and create a scenario where feedback of a test is quick...doesnt require much memorization of what is what and that allows you to suddenly stop and rerun tests. Rapidly. Think of access lists,route tables, firewall rulesets and logs. If you're running tests do you want too see results such as 192.168.22.0, 172.16.89.22, 10.129.20.222, 10.12.22.2? Wouldnt it be easier if your test results looked like this: 1.10.1.1, 10.10.1.1, 100.10.1.1, 1.1.1.1, 10.1.1.1, 100.1.1.1, etc? perhaps I am unique, but I suffer from dyslexia. 1.1.10.0.1.1.0.0.0.0.1.1.1.11.0 looks way too much like binary to me. Much easier for machine parsing. Humans that I have worked with tend to discriminate easier on differing patterns. ThanksI really appreciate everyone's feedback on this. -Original Message- From: Murphy, Brennan Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 9:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IANA reserved Address Space OK, I see now that down the road using a 1 and 100 net address on the lab would create unmanageable problems if those nets were ever put into use on the internet... something NAT couldnt fix. And the responses saying use 1918 space point out the potential problems were this lab ever to leak out an advertisement on to the internet, etc all advice I appreciate people have taken the time to offer. But not to be a pest but what are the odds the IANA would ever allocate the 1 and 100 nets to someone? Is this an unpredictable matter or is there a schedule of what's next somewhere? Or which is more likely, the world adopts IP v6 or the 1 and 100 nets are deployed on the internet? :-) It is apparent that I really want to use these address ranges but I do need to grapple with the possibility that this lab will need internet connectivity at some point. -Original Message- From: Murphy, Brennan Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 8:49 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IANA reserved Address Space Others have pointed out that I should stick to RFC 1918 address space. But again, this is a lab network and to use the words of another, one of the things I want to do is make it much easier to parse visually my route tables. Think of it as a metric system type of numbering plan. The 1 and 100 nets would not be advertised via BGP obviously...not a hijack situation at all. If I take into account the possibility that this lab will have later requirements to connect to the internet, all I have to do is have a NAT plan in place...one that even takes into account that the 1 and 100 nets could become available some day, correct? Thanks to those who have responded so far. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 8:08 AM To: Murphy, Brennan Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: IANA reserved Address Space networks 1 and 100 are reserved for future delegation. network 10 is delegated for private networks, such as your lab. if you use networks 1 and 100, you are hijacking these numbers. that said, as long as your lab is never going to connect to the Internet, you may want to consider using the following prefixes: 4.0.0.0/8 38.0.0.0/8 127.0.0.0/8 192.0.0.0/8 I'm tasked with coming up with an IP plan for an very large lab network. I want to maximize route table manageability and router/firewall log readability. I was thinking of building this lab with the following address space: 1.0.0.0 /8 10.0.0.0 /8 100.0.0.0 /8 I need 3 distinct zones which is why I wanted to separate them out. In any case, I was wondering about the status of the 1 /8 and the 100 /8 networks. What does it mean that they are IANA reserved? Reserved for what? http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space Anyone else ever use IANA reserved address spacing for lab networks? Is there anything special I need to know? I'm under the impression
RE: IANA reserved Address Space
If you're running tests do you want too see results such as 192.168.22.0, 172.16.89.22, 10.129.20.222, 10.12.22.2? Wouldnt it be easier if your test results looked like this: 1.10.1.1, 10.10.1.1, 100.10.1.1, 1.1.1.1, 10.1.1.1, 100.1.1.1, etc? What's wrong with results that look like: 10.1.1.1 10.1.10.1 10.1.100.1 10.10.1.1 10.10.10.1 10.10.100.1 10.100.1.1 10.100.10.1 10.100.100.1 -- /ak
RE: IANA reserved Address Space
But not to be a pest but what are the odds the IANA would ever allocate the 1 and 100 nets to someone? 99%
RE: IANA reserved Address Space
But not to be a pest but what are the odds the IANA would ever allocate the 1 and 100 nets to someone? 99% I can't imagine 100.0.0.0/8 remaining reserved - there's nothing particularly special about it (100=0x64... a number which represented in hex has digits which form a power of two in decimal, looks nice but isn't a special bit boundary or anything). 1.0.0.0/8, well, IMO some chance it may remain reserved for quite a while. But there's always a chance it could be allocated any day. As another example, I'd be sure 200.200.200.200 will end up with someone someday, and I've seen horrible attrocities committed with that IP by people who don't own it (eg. used as a content destination IP via satellite that a number of providers then had machines with that IP receiving UDP), just because they think it looks nice. 1.0.0.0/8 was used by One.Net (an Australian ISP/Telco, who later collapsed rather dramatically) for their router/link IP addresses. It was disgusting enough that many wouldn't peer with them. I don't know what isn't clear about using the allocated network for internal addresses: 10.0.0.0/16 10.10.0.0/16 10.20.0.0/16 etc Nice, clear, obviously differentiated blocks. 10.0.0.0/8 is BIG. You're unlikely to need more than 254 devices on any subnet in a lab anyway, so you can split down to /24's (or smaller in these enlightened times of CIDR, but I'm guessing that doesn't look nice to you). If you can't find enough nice IP addresses in it to build your lab, well, that's a really big lab. David.
RE: IANA reserved Address Space
On Fri, 30 May 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 10.12.22.2? Wouldnt it be easier if your test results looked like this: 1.10.1.1, 10.10.1.1, 100.10.1.1, 1.1.1.1, 10.1.1.1, 100.1.1.1, etc? Those aren't very human parsable in my eyes - too close to one another. Why not use 10/8, 241/8 and, and 251/8 - Or is class E space out :P Jason -- Jason Slagle - CCNP - CCDP /\ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign . X - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail . / \ - NO Word docs in e-mail .
Re: IANA reserved Address Space
Bill Manning wrote: that said, as long as your lab is never going to connect to the Internet, you may want to consider using the following prefixes: [..] 127.0.0.0/8 I would not use 127.0.0.0/8 for anything. Michel. that would be you. in 1989, i built a 6,000 node network w/ 400 subnets out of that address range. worked a treat. since then the UNIX fascists have tightened their grip on what the enterprising admin can do w/ that portion of the address map. now 127.0.0.0/8 seems mostly good for things like NTP and host addresses, not tied to any specific interface. still useful for some of us. --bill
Re: IANA reserved Address Space
On Fri, 30 May 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1.0.0.0 /8 10.0.0.0 /8 100.0.0.0 /8 I need 3 distinct zones which is why I wanted to separate them out. In any case, I was wondering about the status of the 1 /8 and the 100 /8 networks. What does it mean that they are IANA reserved? Reserved for what? http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space It means (like what has happened recently with 69/8 and others) that they're not in use YET. Eventually, they will go from Reserved to RIR assigned and you will have reachability issues if your lab is ever connected to the internet. Anyone else ever use IANA reserved address spacing for lab networks? Is there anything special I need to know? There's an awful lot of RFC 1918 space. How about using some of it? http://69box.atlantic.net/ -- Jon Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED]| I route System Administrator| therefore you are Atlantic Net| _ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_
Re: IANA reserved Address Space
I'm tasked with coming up with an IP plan for an very large lab network. I want to maximize route table manageability and router/firewall log readability. I was thinking of building this lab with the following address space: 1.0.0.0 /8 10.0.0.0 /8 100.0.0.0 /8 I encourage my competitors to do this. or read another way, this is fairly stupid, but as log as this stupidity doesn't affect me, I don't care. However the person tasked with cleaning tha crap up behind you may not feel the same. Doing something right, the first time saves having to do it over again and again and again and again.
Re: IANA reserved Address Space
On Fri, 30 May 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm tasked with coming up with an IP plan for an very large lab network. I want to maximize route table manageability and router/firewall log readability. I was thinking of building this lab with the following address space: 1.0.0.0 /8 10.0.0.0 /8 100.0.0.0 /8 Since all of the replies have been pretty close to the same (Use RFC1918 ...etc), I'd like to rephrase it to answer a curiosity of mine. RFC1918 is a set number of IP addresses. If you are working on a private network lab that will be on the internet eventually or have parts on the internet and exceeds the total number of IPV4 addressing set aside in RFC1918, and IPV6 private addressing is not an option, what can you do? (I know it's a stretch, but I think it asks specifically what Brennan wants to know and what I'm curious about now) IPV6 would seem to be the best answer overall since it has already been determined the solution for limited addressing, but there is still equipment/software and such that does not support it. Brennan, is a mix of IPV6 and IPV4 private addressing an option for you? I do have to agree wholeheartedly that using address space not assigned to you is unprofessional, and will cause someone headaches later even if it is not you. Gerald
RE: IANA reserved Address Space
On Fri, 30 May 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: RFC1918 is a set number of IP addresses. If you are working on a private network lab that will be on the internet eventually or have parts on the internet and exceeds the total number of IPV4 addressing set aside in RFC1918, and IPV6 private addressing is not an option, what can you do? (I know it's a stretch, but I think it asks specifically what Brennan wants to know and what I'm curious about now) You request the number if IP addresses you actually need from IANA (or the relevant registry). See RFC2050, which says: In order for the Internet to scale using existing technologies, use of regional registry services should be limited to the assignment of IP addresses for organizations meeting one or more of the following conditions: a) the organization has no intention of connecting to the Internet-either now or in the future-but it still requires a globally unique IP address. The organization should consider using reserved addresses from RFC1918. If it is determined this is not possible, they can be issued unique (if not Internet routable) IP addresses. DS
RE: IANA reserved Address Space
1.0.0.0 /8 10.0.0.0 /8 100.0.0.0 /8 I encourage my competitors to do this. or read another way, this is fairly stupid, but as log as this stupidity doesn't affect me, I don't care. However the person tasked with cleaning tha crap up behind you may not feel the same. Doing something right, the first time saves having to do it over again and again and again and again. Or they could use any addresses they want, and give themselves a way out of the nightmare by using DHCP, bootp or some other sort of similar technology to allow them to migrate thousands of physical or virtual hosts to a new numbering topology. If the lab your are connecting to already has burned up most RFC1918 space, give yourself an out if you have to renumber the whole thing before you can get it live on the Internet. Deepak Jain AiNET
Re: IANA reserved Address Space
On Fri, 30 May 2003, Gerald wrote: RFC1918 is a set number of IP addresses. If you are working on a private network lab that will be on the internet eventually or have parts on the internet and exceeds the total number of IPV4 addressing set aside in RFC1918, and IPV6 private addressing is not an option, what can you do? (I know it's a stretch, but I think it asks specifically what Brennan wants to know and what I'm curious about now) As a related question I guess I'd ask what sort of simulation requires more than 16.7 million discreet ipv4 adresses (1/256 of the whole) in order too simulate a reasonable subset of the whole ipv4 internet. -- -- Joel Jaeggli Academic User Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] --PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -- In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of the scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first. -- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
Re: IANA reserved Address Space
On Fri, 30 May 2003, Joel Jaeggli wrote: As a related question I guess I'd ask what sort of simulation requires more than 16.7 million discreet ipv4 adresses (1/256 of the whole) in order too simulate a reasonable subset of the whole ipv4 internet. I don't have an answer for that one. :-) I came across the numbering for this in another lookup I was doing and it seemed relevant: 10.0.0.0/8 16,777,214 unique hosts maximum 192.168.0.0/16 65,534 unique hosts maximum 172.16.0.0/12 1,048,574 unique hosts maximum Total: 17,891,322 unique addresses (before further subnetting) What real world scenario would use more than almost 17.9 million hosts? That doesn't count NAT'ing within private addressing if the project is large enough and primarily using outbound traffic. RFC1884 sets aside fec0::/10 for IPV6 Private addressing. That's enough to fit all of IPV4 addressing inside of the private addressing alone. (Anyone have a total number of unique hosts on that one?) Gerald
Re: IANA reserved Address Space
On Sat, 31 May 2003 00:54:07 EDT, Gerald said: 10.0.0.0/8 16,777,214 unique hosts maximum 192.168.0.0/16 65,534 unique hosts maximum 172.16.0.0/12 1,048,574 unique hosts maximum Total: 17,891,322 unique addresses (before further subnetting) However, see RFC3194. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: IANA reserved Address Space
RFC1884 sets aside fec0::/10 for IPV6 Private addressing. That's enough to fit all of IPV4 addressing inside of the private addressing alone. (Anyone have a total number of unique hosts on that one?) 2^(128-10) 332306998946228968225951765070086144 Pete
Re: IANA reserved Address Space
As a related question I guess I'd ask what sort of simulation requires more than 16.7 million discreet ipv4 adresses (1/256 of the whole) in order too simulate a reasonable subset of the whole ipv4 internet. Many products perform differently (though both performance levels might be observed as line rate) when subjected to different length prefixes. Pete
IANA reserved Address Space
I'm tasked with coming up with an IP plan for an very large lab network. I want to maximize route table manageability and router/firewall log readability. I was thinking of building this lab with the following address space: 1.0.0.0 /8 10.0.0.0 /8 100.0.0.0 /8 I need 3 distinct zones which is why I wanted to separate them out. In any case, I was wondering about the status of the 1 /8 and the 100 /8 networks. What does it mean that they are IANA reserved? Reserved for what? http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space Anyone else ever use IANA reserved address spacing for lab networks? Is there anything special I need to know? I'm under the impression that as long as I stay away from special use address space, I've got no worries. http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3330.txt Thanks, BM
Re: IANA reserved Address Space
networks 1 and 100 are reserved for future delegation. network 10 is delegated for private networks, such as your lab. if you use networks 1 and 100, you are hijacking these numbers. that said, as long as your lab is never going to connect to the Internet, you may want to consider using the following prefixes: 4.0.0.0/8 38.0.0.0/8 127.0.0.0/8 192.0.0.0/8 I'm tasked with coming up with an IP plan for an very large lab network. I want to maximize route table manageability and router/firewall log readability. I was thinking of building this lab with the following address space: 1.0.0.0 /8 10.0.0.0 /8 100.0.0.0 /8 I need 3 distinct zones which is why I wanted to separate them out. In any case, I was wondering about the status of the 1 /8 and the 100 /8 networks. What does it mean that they are IANA reserved? Reserved for what? http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space Anyone else ever use IANA reserved address spacing for lab networks? Is there anything special I need to know? I'm under the impression that as long as I stay away from special use address space, I've got no worries. http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3330.txt Thanks, BM
RE: IANA reserved Address Space
Others have pointed out that I should stick to RFC 1918 address space. But again, this is a lab network and to use the words of another, one of the things I want to do is make it much easier to parse visually my route tables. Think of it as a metric system type of numbering plan. The 1 and 100 nets would not be advertised via BGP obviously...not a hijack situation at all. If I take into account the possibility that this lab will have later requirements to connect to the internet, all I have to do is have a NAT plan in place...one that even takes into account that the 1 and 100 nets could become available some day, correct? Thanks to those who have responded so far. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 8:08 AM To: Murphy, Brennan Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: IANA reserved Address Space networks 1 and 100 are reserved for future delegation. network 10 is delegated for private networks, such as your lab. if you use networks 1 and 100, you are hijacking these numbers. that said, as long as your lab is never going to connect to the Internet, you may want to consider using the following prefixes: 4.0.0.0/8 38.0.0.0/8 127.0.0.0/8 192.0.0.0/8 I'm tasked with coming up with an IP plan for an very large lab network. I want to maximize route table manageability and router/firewall log readability. I was thinking of building this lab with the following address space: 1.0.0.0 /8 10.0.0.0 /8 100.0.0.0 /8 I need 3 distinct zones which is why I wanted to separate them out. In any case, I was wondering about the status of the 1 /8 and the 100 /8 networks. What does it mean that they are IANA reserved? Reserved for what? http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space Anyone else ever use IANA reserved address spacing for lab networks? Is there anything special I need to know? I'm under the impression that as long as I stay away from special use address space, I've got no worries. http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3330.txt Thanks, BM
