Re: Network graphics tools
I've had pretty good luck with OmniGraffle Professional, and, it's fairly cheap, too. Has many of the features Visio has, and, is gaining more on a regular basis. It lacks the Visio silly pictures (although you could create your own easily enough), but, it does understand connections between objects and has some more advanced metadata features I haven't yet learned to use. It's also got half-way decent auto-layout capabilities. http://www.omnigroup.com Owen --On March 21, 2006 9:17:44 PM -0500 Howard C. Berkowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Much of the enterprise market seems wedded to Visio as their network graphics tool, which locks them into Windows. Personally, I hate both little pictures of equipment and Cisco hockey-puck icons; I much prefer things like rectangles saying 7507 STL-1 or M160 NYC-3. Assuming you use *NIX platforms (including BSD under Mac OS X), what are your preferred tools for network drawings, both for internal and external use? I'd hate to be driven to Windows only because I need Visio. -- If this message was not signed with gpg key 0FE2AA3D, it's probably a forgery. pgpgYmbMdNBcw.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Network graphics tools
Hi Howard, On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:17:44 -0500 Howard C. Berkowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Much of the enterprise market seems wedded to Visio as their network graphics tool, which locks them into Windows. Personally, I hate both little pictures of equipment and Cisco hockey-puck icons; I much prefer things like rectangles saying 7507 STL-1 or M160 NYC-3. Assuming you use *NIX platforms (including BSD under Mac OS X), what are your preferred tools for network drawings, both for internal and external use? I'd hate to be driven to Windows only because I need Visio. I've been using inkscape (http://www.inkscape.org/) a bit recently, and haven't found it too bad for basic box network drawings. It's native format is SVG, although make sure you save your working diagrams in the Inkscape SVG format. If you save it as normal SVG, all the objects get merged into a single one - annoying if you want to go back and edit it later. I haven't tried it, however there is a probability that Firefox 1.5 can view the .SVGs Inkscape produces natively. Regards, Mark. -- Sheep are slow and tasty, and therefore must remain constantly alert. - Bruce Schneier, Beyond Fear
Re: Network graphics tools
If you're doing diagrams for internal use and know the chances of them being used with external parties is slim-to-none, go ahead, play with toys like dia. Rather strong opinion... PDFs are almost 100% acceptable, with a few losers left who won't install a reader. Hey, wait a minute! DIA can export as Postscript and ghostscript can turn those into PDFs. Therefore, you have contradicted your earlier assertion. By the way, there are other possibilities with DIA as well. It is scriptable with Python so you can do useful things like validate a diagram against the network. http://www.gnome.org/projects/dia/python.html There is also diacanvas2 which allows you to integrate the DIA drawing canvas into your application. http://diacanvas.sourceforge.net/ With diacanvas and python, you make an interactive network diagram and bundle it into a Windows .exe file to distribute to the sales force so they can do stuff like zoom in and out. Fact is, that the availability of reasonably featured and stable Open Source software has mushroomed over the past few years. --Michael Dillon
Re: Network graphics tools
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:07:59 +1030, Mark Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haven't tried it, however there is a probability that Firefox 1.5 can view the .SVGs Inkscape produces natively. In general, I don't know; however, the copy on my laptop (Firefox 1.5.0.1 on NetBSD-current) can display .svg files that happen to be on my laptop. I haven't tried retrieving any over the net, where MIME types are important. --Steven M. Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
Re: Network graphics tools
John Kinsella wrote: Not sure how preferring things like rectangles stops you from using Visio, but *shrug* Probably has more to do with the other features of Visio. Hidden metadata, slow VBS, fragile registry dependencies, ... all of which engineers tend to discover before an important deadline. Not trying to start a Visio religious war, just saying there's a reason enterprises use it. Like most things enterprises use it because that's what they know. Managers also believe they can't get fired for buying IBM. They will likely continue believing this until another manager comes along who knows open-source and how to use it for a better ROI. -- Roger Marquis Roble Systems Consulting http://www.roble.com/
Network graphics tools
Much of the enterprise market seems wedded to Visio as their network graphics tool, which locks them into Windows. Personally, I hate both little pictures of equipment and Cisco hockey-puck icons; I much prefer things like rectangles saying 7507 STL-1 or M160 NYC-3. Assuming you use *NIX platforms (including BSD under Mac OS X), what are your preferred tools for network drawings, both for internal and external use? I'd hate to be driven to Windows only because I need Visio.
Re: Network graphics tools
xfig emacs artist-mode randy
Re: Network graphics tools
On Mar 21, 2006, at 6:17 PM, Howard C. Berkowitz wrote: Much of the enterprise market seems wedded to Visio as their network graphics tool, which locks them into Windows. Personally, I hate both little pictures of equipment and Cisco hockey-puck icons; I much prefer things like rectangles saying 7507 STL-1 or M160 NYC-3. Assuming you use *NIX platforms (including BSD under Mac OS X), what are your preferred tools for network drawings, both for internal and external use? I'd hate to be driven to Windows only because I need Visio. I use OmniGraffle Pro for OS/X: http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omnigraffle/pro/ It can import and export Visio XML format, as well. -- Roland Dobbins [EMAIL PROTECTED] // 408.527.6376 voice Everything has been said. But nobody listens. -- Roger Shattuck
Re: Network graphics tools
KDE has a Visio-like tool called kivio It was pretty much useless last I looked, but looks like it has some potential. Think I heard that you would be able to use the visio format at some point too, probably not yet though. http://www.koffice.org/kivio/ I've used dia a bit, seems reasonable. http://www.gnome.org/projects/dia/ -Wil Howard C. Berkowitz wrote: Much of the enterprise market seems wedded to Visio as their network graphics tool, which locks them into Windows. Personally, I hate both little pictures of equipment and Cisco hockey-puck icons; I much prefer things like rectangles saying 7507 STL-1 or M160 NYC-3. Assuming you use *NIX platforms (including BSD under Mac OS X), what are your preferred tools for network drawings, both for internal and external use? I'd hate to be driven to Windows only because I need Visio.
Re: Network graphics tools
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:20:19 -1000, Randy Bush [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: xfig And something I learned only recently -- xfig comes with a large library of clip art. Here are the categories on my system: $ ls /usr/pkg/lib/X11/xfig/Libraries/ Arrows Electronic Labels Optics Audiovisual ExamplesLogic Origami Buildings Flags MapsProcessFlowsheet Charts Flowchart Mechanical_DIN Structural_Analysis Computers Furniture Miscellaneous UML DSP GUI Music Welding ERD HospitalNetworksElectrical KnittingOfficeEquip And if you must, Networks/router3.fig is a hockey puck --Steven M. Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
Re: Network graphics tools
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, Howard C. Berkowitz wrote: Much of the enterprise market seems wedded to Visio as their network graphics tool, which locks them into Windows. Personally, I hate both little pictures of equipment and Cisco hockey-puck icons; I much prefer things like rectangles saying 7507 STL-1 or M160 NYC-3. Assuming you use *NIX platforms (including BSD under Mac OS X), what are your preferred tools for network drawings, both for internal and external use? I'd hate to be driven to Windows only because I need Visio. Omnigraffle! http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omnigraffle/ -Bill
Re: Network graphics tools
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, Howard C. Berkowitz wrote: Much of the enterprise market seems wedded to Visio as their network graphics tool, which locks them into Windows. Personally, I hate both little pictures of equipment and Cisco hockey-puck icons; I much prefer things like rectangles saying 7507 STL-1 or M160 NYC-3. ^ That's exactly what my network diagrams in dia look like. You can get dia for *NIX and Blows (if you want it). -- Jon Lewis | I route Senior Network Engineer | therefore you are Atlantic Net| _ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_
Re: Network graphics tools
On Tue, Mar 21, 2006 at 09:17:44PM -0500, Howard C. Berkowitz wrote: Much of the enterprise market seems wedded to Visio as their network graphics tool, which locks them into Windows. Personally, I hate both little pictures of equipment and Cisco hockey-puck icons; I much prefer things like rectangles saying 7507 STL-1 or M160 NYC-3. Not sure how preferring things like rectangles stops you from using Visio, but *shrug* Assuming you use *NIX platforms (including BSD under Mac OS X), what are your preferred tools for network drawings, both for internal and external use? I'd hate to be driven to Windows only because I need Visio. If you're doing diagrams for internal use and know the chances of them being used with external parties is slim-to-none, go ahead, play with toys like dia. Omnigraffle looks hopeful, but haven't personally used. On the other hand, if you are doing professional business communications I'd seriously condsider getting vmware and Visio. I might be a little backward to many here, as I work for a consulting company and 95% of what we do is client-facing. Maybe, more accurately, if you never expect anybody other than you to edit your work, Visio's not a necessity. PDFs are almost 100% acceptable, with a few losers left who won't install a reader. Not trying to start a Visio religious war, just saying there's a reason enterprises use it. Random thought - think Visio's capabilities are about as underused as Excel's... John
Re: Network graphics tools
Howard C. Berkowitz wrote: Much of the enterprise market seems wedded to Visio as their network graphics tool, which locks them into Windows. Personally, I hate both little pictures of equipment and Cisco hockey-puck icons; I much prefer things like rectangles saying 7507 STL-1 or M160 NYC-3. Assuming you use *NIX platforms (including BSD under Mac OS X), what are your preferred tools for network drawings, both for internal and external use? I'd hate to be driven to Windows only because I need Visio. http://www.nethack.net/software/netmapr/ is an alternative as well. I personally use Dia, and it seems fine in both OS types, and exports various types of files that [OOo/MS-office] can deal with easily. You can download shapes for a variety of presenters/office/visio/etc from the cisco website (as well as others). Cheers, andy
Re: Network graphics tools
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, John Kinsella wrote: If you're doing diagrams for internal use and know the chances of them being used with external parties is slim-to-none, go ahead, play with toys like dia. Omnigraffle looks hopeful, but haven't personally used. Omnigraffle can read/write Visio XML format, .vdx It's not Visio's default file format, but it does give you 100% compatibility. -Bill
Re: Network graphics tools
An entity claiming to be John Kinsella ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: : : Not trying to start a Visio religious war, just saying there's a reason : enterprises use it. : And it's not just that they think that having thousands of open stencil windows is impressive when you open a single diagram? Mark -- []| I once saw a page that said, This page best viewed [] Mark Rogaski | by coming over to my office and looking at it on my [] [EMAIL PROTECTED] | monitor. You don't often see honesty like that. [] [EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Jamie Zawinsky []| signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Network graphics tools
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Yo Howard! On Tue, Mar 21, 2006 at 09:17:44PM -0500, Howard C. Berkowitz wrote: Much of the enterprise market seems wedded to Visio as their network graphics tool, which locks them into Windows. Personally, I hate both little pictures of equipment and Cisco hockey-puck icons; I much prefer things like rectangles saying 7507 STL-1 or M160 NYC-3. I am surprised no one has mentioned Open Office 2. It's drawing function can do a lot of Visio like things. I like it a lot better than dia and it does all the network drawing that I need. RGDS GARY - --- Gary E. Miller Rellim 20340 Empire Blvd, Suite E-3, Bend, OR 97701 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel:+1(541)382-8588 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEINmp8KZibdeR3qURAg2UAKCF6M1AN9CYWRvHgkPWSfjvxBrKVgCg6bJj CXgt4PcQfea+5EkKPZ4kgUk= =zmju -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Network graphics tools
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, Mark Rogaski wrote: An entity claiming to be John Kinsella ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: : : Not trying to start a Visio religious war, just saying there's a reason : enterprises use it. : And it's not just that they think that having thousands of open stencil windows is impressive when you open a single diagram? If you save the document without any surplus stencil windows open, that doesn't happen. In my experience it simply remembers how many were open the last time it was saved, and reopens all the same ones again assuming theyre available. And this is rapidly moving OT ...
Re: Network graphics tools
Mechanical pencil, a sheet of paper for a straight edge, and a penny when you want to make a proffesional looking round object. I publish to Flickr using macro mode on my Fuji Finepix 5100 to make the picture. No little Cisco hockey puck stencils, but last year when I sketched a steaming pile o' poo all parties involved understood this to be the Cisco ICS 7750 we were scheduled to replace. Howard C. Berkowitz wrote: Much of the enterprise market seems wedded to Visio as their network graphics tool, which locks them into Windows. Personally, I hate both little pictures of equipment and Cisco hockey-puck icons; I much prefer things like rectangles saying 7507 STL-1 or M160 NYC-3. Assuming you use *NIX platforms (including BSD under Mac OS X), what are your preferred tools for network drawings, both for internal and external use? I'd hate to be driven to Windows only because I need Visio. -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] // IM:layer3arts voice: 402 408 5951 cell : 402 301 9555 fax : 402 408 6902
