Re: AS286 effectively no more..
We have lost connectivity from them since last friday. If you send an email to their NOC you will get an autoreply saying: The KPNQwest Network Operations Center was CLOSED on 19/07/2002 As everybody knew they did have a really proactive and responsive NOC. It is sad to see things like thi happen. :-( Cheers German On Mon, 29 Jul 2002, Stephen J. Wilcox wrote: FYI we have still got BGP with KPN and all routes look okay (from London).. no evidence of this shutdown as yet, perhaps it was only a couple of sections? Steve On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Huopio Kauto wrote: Interesting how quietly one of the powerhouses in Europe has been shut down yesterday evening. Any notes on increased latency / routing issues wrt AS286 shutdown? --kauto Kauto Huopio - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Information Security Adviser Finnish Communications Regulatory Authority / CERT-FI tel. +358-9-6966772, fax. +358-9-6966515 CERT-FI duty desk +358-9-6966510 - http://www.cert.fi
Re: AS286 effectively no more..
The KPNQwest Network Operations Center was CLOSED on 19/07/2002 As everybody knew they did have a really proactive and responsive NOC. It is sad to see things like thi happen. :-( indeed. it's rare these days that a noc is given enough budget and authority to do a good job. as286 predated the dotcom boom (and bust) by a lot of years and was a fine bunch of folks from the earliest days to the final days. it's really sad to see a successful enterprise swept up by a boom/bust cycle. (i guess anybody who was able to cash out their equity from the kpn/qwest deal saw it as a good thing, but older customers probably wish it hadn't happened.) -- Paul Vixie
Re: AS286 effectively no more..
On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Huopio Kauto wrote: Interesting how quietly one of the powerhouses in Europe has been shut down yesterday evening. Any notes on increased latency / routing issues wrt AS286 shutdown? Does anyone know what happened to the Ebone/KPNQWEST European-wide DWDM system? I figure that if it was shut down, we would see more impact. Their IP network load I bet was quite easily handled by other operators considering the huge over-capacity situation we have had the past years. -- Mikael Abrahamssonemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: AS286 effectively no more..
What is the legal position of an IRU deal if the cable owner goes belly up? Unless someone buys the equipment and agrees to theke the IRU:s on - they are worthless. - kurtis -
Re: AS286 effectively no more..
Does anyone know what happened to the Ebone/KPNQWEST European-wide DWDM system? I figure that if it was shut down, we would see more impact. It's beeing sold off in pices. Their IP network load I bet was quite easily handled by other operators considering the huge over-capacity situation we have had the past years. Uhm, how many pan-European _fiber_ owners is there? Not that many. Most of that over capacity was bought from KQ in Europe... Keep in mind that this is a game where everyone is dependent on everybody else. There isn't that much actual diverse fiber out there... - kurtis -
RE: AS286 effectively no more..
What is the legal position of an IRU deal if the cable owner goes belly up? Unless someone buys the equipment and agrees to theke the IRU:s on - they are worthless. How about duct IRU:s? --kauto
RE: AS286 effectively no more..
On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Kurt Erik Lindqvist wrote: Unless someone buys the equipment and agrees to theke the IRU:s on - they are worthless. You can make fiber IRUs stick even if the company who bought the fiber goes belly up. IRUs (Indefeasible Rights of Use seems to be the acronym?) as far as I know, is just that, you actually own the fibers you IRUed for the time being. -- Mikael Abrahamssonemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: AS286 effectively no more..
At 10:27 AM 25-07-02 +0200, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Kurt Erik Lindqvist wrote: Unless someone buys the equipment and agrees to theke the IRU:s on - they are worthless. You can make fiber IRUs stick even if the company who bought the fiber goes belly up. IRUs (Indefeasible Rights of Use seems to be the acronym?) as far as I know, is just that, you actually own the fibers you IRUed for the time being. Most IRU contracts I looked at before putting together ours did not specify a clause such as: Unless terminated earlier under Clauses 4.1, 4.2 or 4.3, this Agreement shall remain in force for a period of 15 (fifteen) years and shall be binding on the Supplier; any other legal entity which may replace the Supplier; the Supplier liquidator (should there be one) or anyone to whom the Supplier may transfer the rights and ownership of the underground fiber optic cables. Go look to see if your IRU contract has any clause about the supplier liquidator. -Hank -- Mikael Abrahamssonemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: AS286 effectively no more..
You can make fiber IRUs stick even if the company who bought the fiber goes belly up. IRUs (Indefeasible Rights of Use seems to be the acronym?) as far as I know, is just that, you actually own the fibers you IRUed for the time being. As with everything in life, it will always depend on the contract you have with your supplier and the contracts that you supplier has with this suppliers and so on. For example if Bozotelco builds a huge fibre network all over the world but then goes bust before they paid the bill for the fibre - who owns the fibre ? :-) Regards, Neil. -- Neil J. McRae - Alive and Kicking [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: AS286 effectively no more..
--On Thursday, July 25, 2002 11:23:38 +0300 Huopio Kauto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is the legal position of an IRU deal if the cable owner goes belly up? Unless someone buys the equipment and agrees to theke the IRU:s on - they are worthless. How about duct IRU:s? Some what more complex and depends on the set-up of the company. You will need access to the manholes to start with..:) - kurtis -
Re: AS286 effectively no more..
Does anyone know what happened to the Ebone/KPNQWEST European-wide DWDM system? I figure that if it was shut down, we would see more impact. Most people have made other arrangements, and most of the IP customers were ISPs themselves with other upstreams. We have seen some issues with less direct paths to some carriers, but nothing an email to peering@ couldn't solve. Their IP network load I bet was quite easily handled by other operators considering the huge over-capacity situation we have had the past years. Indeed. Regards, Neil. -- Neil J. McRae - Alive and Kicking [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: AS286 effectively no more..
Uhm, how many pan-European _fiber_ owners is there? Not that many. Most of that over capacity was bought from KQ in Europe... COLT, Telia, Dynergy, BT Ignite [I think], Level 3, LDcom, others. KQ was excellent at marketing themselves as the only company who had pan-European fibre but the reality is far different. Well, several of the companies you mention above where actually large customers of KQ. Although you are right in that they had pices of the network themselves. I agree with you that KQ marketing was a stroy in itslef, but for pan-European fiber assets, there are very few own it all. - kurtis -
Re: AS286 effectively no more..
On Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:53:55 +0200, Mikael Abrahamsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Their IP network load I bet was quite easily handled by other operators considering the huge over-capacity situation we have had the past years. Contributory cause? http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=1234733 (Quick summary - Worldcom accused of contributing to the Internet bubble by overstating traffic growth) msg04024/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: AS286 effectively no more..
Well, several of the companies you mention above where actually large customers of KQ. Although you are right in that they had pices of the network themselves. I agree with you that KQ marketing was a stroy in itslef, but for pan-European fiber assets, there are very few own it all. Yes one of the myths that I used to hear was that COLTs european network relied upon KQ, which it didn't. The other issue is local network access of course, its fine having these huge fibre networks that are point to point, but you need to have the local access network to connect corporates. -- Neil J. McRae - Alive and Kicking [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: AS286 effectively no more..
Yes one of the myths that I used to hear was that COLTs european network relied upon KQ, which it didn't. The other issue is local network As ex-KQ I agree with you. But there where plenty of others. access of course, its fine having these huge fibre networks that are point to point, but you need to have the local access network to connect corporates. This is true, and this is something that KQ (among others) missed out on. - kurtis -
Re: AS286 effectively no more..
On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 09:46:07AM +0300, Huopio Kauto wrote: Interesting how quietly one of the powerhouses in Europe has been shut down yesterday evening. Any notes on increased latency / routing issues wrt AS286 shutdown? On a much quieter note, how many people noticed that AS1673 and 140.223/16 disappeared a few weeks ago? It looks like Worldcom actually managed to integrate something! (Just before they finish going out of business, too...) --msa
