Re: European Nanog?
On 14.09 13:23, Roland Perry wrote: ... more to the point, who decided meeting content? essentially daniel karrenberg does. I thought it was a committee of the Workgroup chairs (apart perhaps from the first day). Roland, you are almost right. From http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-49/eof-info.html : The European Operators Forum (EOF) is a forum where new technologydevelopments of interest to Internet Protocol network operators arepresented and discussed. The EOF has no formal charter or chair. The agenda is co-ordinated by a program committee led by Rob Blokzijl, RIPE Chair. Participation is open to all interested parties. The EOF is normally a day and a half session that takes place prior to scheduled RIPE Working Group sessions. The Program Committee welcomes input for possible topics and can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED]. ... All sugestions for content go to the eof-coord list. Anyone willing to contribute to putting together the EOF programme is welcome to join this list. It is an extremely informal group. Most, if not all, RIPE WG chairpeople are on the list; but it is not limited to them. The RIPE NCC currently supports me to act as a secretary and to look after the meeting/speaker logistics. Daniel
Re: European Nanog?
Daniel, On 15.09.2004 13:50 Daniel Karrenberg wrote: Roland, you are almost right. From http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-49/eof-info.html : The European Operators Forum (EOF) is a forum where new technologydevelopments of interest to Internet Protocol network operators arepresented and discussed. The EOF has no formal charter or chair. The agenda is co-ordinated by a program committee led by Rob Blokzijl, RIPE Chair. this is not really consistent with http://www.ripe.net/ripe/wg/eof/index.html, It would also be more transparent if someone know of which members the program committee consist of. But this are pennies. I would much appreciate if EOF gets more input from RIPE operators. Have a successful RIPE 49 in Manchester, Arnold
Re: European Nanog?
I would much appreciate if EOF gets more input from RIPE operators. this is a problem with eof, nanog, apricot, ... the actual running and decision-making is not done by operators. it is done by the usual well-meaning people representing operators. and, of course, they are in extreme, and almost amusing, denial that there is a difference. i am not sure how foro de redes is currently operated; it used to be heavily operator run. it is interesting to note that afnog is organized and run pretty much by operators. i guess they can't afford net.bureaucrats to represent them :-). randy
Re: European Nanog?
Randy Bush [15/09/04 09:11 -1000]: this is a problem with eof, nanog, apricot, ... the actual running and decision-making is not done by operators. it is done by the usual well-meaning people representing operators. and, of course, At least in apricot's case, if anybody wants to help, and proves that he can help effectively, he / she is welcome to help .. it kind of boils down to X, Y and Z are willing to roll up their sleeves and help in everything from chasing after sponsors, running a registration system etc to actually coming into the conference venue with a satchel full of access points and wiring the place up Operators, vendors, people who represent the operator community, it doesn't really matter at all. Anyone who is willing to spare technical / organizational expertise and considerable chunks of spare time is welcome to step up to the plate and volunteer. srs (not speaking for the apricot mgmt committee here)
Re: European Nanog?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Randy Bush [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes You can state what you like, but the income from the NCC is what mostly funds the other RIPE activities, in which case its all the same to me, does the EOF live on a RIPE.NET server? Yes. Who funds those servers? more to the point, who decided meeting content? essentially daniel karrenberg does. I thought it was a committee of the Workgroup chairs (apart perhaps from the first day). -- Roland Perry
Re: Any Kine NOGs? Re: European Nanog?
On Tue, 14 Sep 2004, Philip Smith wrote: : At 10:36 13/09/2004 -1000, Scott Weeks wrote: : : Anyone got a list of all english language NOG mailing lists? So far I : have AFNOG, SwiNOG (apparently some in english) and SANOG. : : My little list includes: : : NANOG, AfNOG, SANOG, JANOG, EOF, APOPS, SGNOG, NZNOG, NordNOG, SwiNOG, PACNOG : : So, North America, Africa, South Asia, Japan, Europe, Asia Pacific, : Singapore, New Zealand, Nordic Countries, Switzerland, Pacific. I briefly looked and NordNOG wasn't an english speaking list. (no surprise there... :) I only read in english, thus my request for english language NOG lists. Did I miss that and are the others you mention in the english language? Like I mentioned privately to another person that replied: Too bad there's not a GNOG (Global) done in many languages and a person could subscribe to the language he/she desired. Don't know how one could afford the interpreters for the list, but it'd sure be a good thing if the S/N could be kept low. scott
Re: Any Kine NOGs? Re: European Nanog?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2004-09-14, at 16.36, Scott Weeks wrote: I briefly looked and NordNOG wasn't an english speaking list. (no surprise there... :) I only read in english, thus my request for english language NOG lists. Did I miss that and are the others you mention in the english language? As I created NordNOG I can assure you it is english speaking. Actually, I have no idea how think we would otherwise communicate :-) To the best of my knowledge there have been one or two messages in Swedish. It is a low volume list though, but that is another issue. - - kurtis - -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 8.1 iQA/AwUBQUcH4KarNKXTPFCVEQI1SACgi6U841Um7jyRlufk8YbNw1TLCpYAoN9e guFtqDD29S//+K8vfTV9IsXs =ljGJ -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Any Kine NOGs? Re: European Nanog?
On Tue, 14 Sep 2004, Kurt Erik Lindqvist wrote: : On 2004-09-14, at 16.36, Scott Weeks wrote: : : I briefly looked and NordNOG wasn't an english speaking list. (no : surprise there... :) I only read in english, thus my request for : english : language NOG lists. Did I miss that and are the others you mention in : the : english language? : : As I created NordNOG I can assure you it is english speaking. Actually, : I have no idea how think we would otherwise communicate :-) To the best : of my knowledge there have been one or two messages in Swedish. It is a : low volume list though, but that is another issue. Oops, I must've looked at the one or 2 in the archives. I guess I looked too briefly. scott
Re: Any Kine NOGs? Re: European Nanog?
On Tue, 14 Sep 2004, Philip Smith wrote: NANOG, AfNOG, SANOG, JANOG, EOF, APOPS, SGNOG, NZNOG, NordNOG, SwiNOG, PACNOG every time i see this list, it makes me want to tell NOG NOG jokes. richard -- Richard Welty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Averill Park Networking 518-573-7592 Java, PHP, PostgreSQL, Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security
Re: Any Kine NOGs? Re: European Nanog?
(B (BThe NOGs list is available at http://www.bugest.net/nogs.html . (B (B (B (BAt 10:36 13/09/2004 -1000, Scott Weeks wrote: (B (BAnyone got a list of all english language NOG mailing lists? So far I (Bhave AFNOG, SwiNOG (apparently some in english) and SANOG. (B (BMy little list includes: (B (BNANOG, AfNOG, SANOG, JANOG, EOF, APOPS, SGNOG, NZNOG, NordNOG, SwiNOG, PACNOG (B (BSo, North America, Africa, South Asia, Japan, Europe, Asia Pacific, (BSingapore, New Zealand, Nordic Countries, Switzerland, Pacific. (B (BThere are bound to be others lurking out there... (B (Bphilip (B-- (B (B (B (BKuniaki KONDO - Intec NetCore, Inc. (B[EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://inetcore.com/ (BNATS Project - http://www.nats-project.org/ $B%$%Y%s%H(BML - http://www.bugest.net/event-ml.html
RE: European Nanog?
Too many nogs- The RIPE NCC ran a Euro Operators forum that was probably the most useful. Neil.
Re: European Nanog?
On 13.09.2004 11:18 Neil J. McRae wrote: Too many nogs- The RIPE NCC ran a Euro Operators forum that was probably the most useful. 1. EOF is still alive though hardly visible/audible. 2. EOF is not a RIPE NCC activity. Arnold
RE: European Nanog?
2. EOF is not a RIPE NCC activity. Who runs/funds/maintains it then? Neil.
Re: European Nanog?
- Original Message - From: Neil J. McRae [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Nicolas DEFFAYET' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Arnold Nipper' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 'Ken Gilmour' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 5:18 AM Subject: RE: European Nanog? Too many nogs- The RIPE NCC ran a Euro Operators forum that was probably the most useful. in europe, same as in the US, there is a limited number of people who are at least peripherally interested in participating. not everyone is interested in everything - based on nanog experiences, there are rather large (proportionally) groups of people who are only interested in discussing spam, gmail invites or bad analogies for example. in our case, all of this is merged into one discussion stream. in europe, with ripe running several more specific lists, there isn't enough traffic for an everything goes, including crap forum. /imho paul
Re: European Nanog?
On Sun, Sep 12, 2004 at 09:16:33PM +0200, Michel Renfer wrote: Hi, The NOG philosophy don't work in Europe. That's not correct. The concept works in switzerland with SwiNOG very well - at least two meetings every year and a good organized communitiy behind SwiNOG. Agree, here in .nl we have (how surpising) NLNOG. This is a semi-open forum (read access for everyone, posting for a limited group). From time to time we even have social meetings. No formal meetings (yet). Works like a charme! -- Sabri Berisha, SAB666-RIPE - I route, therefore you are http://www.cluecentral.net - http://www.virt-ix.net
Re: European Nanog?
On 13.09.2004 11:37 Neil J. McRae wrote: 2. EOF is not a RIPE NCC activity. Who runs/funds/maintains it then? EOF is run my itself and has a status as a RIPE WG, hence imbedded in RIPE. Arnold
RE: European Nanog?
So the RIPE NCC - thanks. EOF is run my itself and has a status as a RIPE WG, hence imbedded in RIPE.
Re: European Nanog?
On 13.09.2004 12:20 Neil J. McRae wrote: So the RIPE NCC - thanks. EOF is run my itself and has a status as a RIPE WG, hence imbedded in RIPE. As already noted here a couple of times: RIPE != RIPE NCC Although MERIT is organizing NANOG meetings, no one would say: MERIT == NANOG. Right? Arnold
RE: European Nanog?
As already noted here a couple of times: RIPE != RIPE NCC Although MERIT is organizing NANOG meetings, no one would say: MERIT == NANOG. Right? I love the obsession that people have with this! You can state what you like, but the income from the NCC is what mostly funds the other RIPE activities, in which case its all the same to me, does the EOF live on a RIPE.NET server? Yes. Who funds those servers? Regards, Neil.
Re: European Nanog?
On 13.09.2004 12:52 Neil J. McRae wrote: As already noted here a couple of times: RIPE != RIPE NCC Although MERIT is organizing NANOG meetings, no one would say: MERIT == NANOG. Right? I love the obsession that people have with this! You can state what you like, but the income from the NCC is what mostly funds the other RIPE activities, in which case its all the same to me, You are welcome with your sight of the world, but we still believe it's not a disc ;-) does the EOF live on a RIPE.NET server? Yes. Who funds those servers? There ae loads of websites living on someone else server (and even paid for by someone else). But that does not make them necessarily belong to someone else. Arnold
Re: European Nanog?
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004, Arnold Nipper wrote: As already noted here a couple of times: RIPE != RIPE NCC Although MERIT is organizing NANOG meetings, no one would say: MERIT == NANOG. Right? Not quite. As far as I'm concerned, NANOG is part of MERIT activities. And while I'm not certain if NANOG is actually legally organized in any way, if it is, it is probably considered to be subsidiary of MERIT So while NANOG != MERIT, what we have is that NANOG MERIT Similarly while EOF != RIPE NCC, it is part of it, i.e. EOF RIPE I'm not so certain about RIPE NCC to RIPE relationship though, I suspect that RIPE NCC is a subset (RIR services or) larger RIPE organization that is involved in other activities, i.e. RIPE NCC RIPE So in this case both EOF and RIPE NCC being subsets of same larger set, these subsets may intersect (or one subset maybe contained in another or equal to it) but we do not know about it without additional data and can not make logical conclusion that EOF RIPE NCC. All we can can say is both EOF and RIPE NCC represent organized activity of RIPE existing in parallel and possibly sharing in some parts of the activity. But of course, overall funding for RIPE still comes from RIPE NCC, so while other activities of RIPE are not necessarilty parts of RIPE NCC they are still funded by it :) -- William Leibzon Elan Networks [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: European Nanog?
On 13.09.2004 13:27 william(at)elan.net wrote: I'm not so certain about RIPE NCC to RIPE relationship though, I suspect that RIPE NCC is a subset (RIR services or) larger RIPE organization that is involved in other activities, i.e. RIPE NCC RIPE No, that's not true. There is no order function for EOF, RIPE and RIPE NCC. While EOF has a RIPE WG status it is not a RIPE WG (this was at least my understanding). And the only relation between RIPE and RIPE NCC is that RIPE NCC is provid(es)ing administrative support for RIPE. But of course, overall funding for RIPE still comes from RIPE NCC, so while other activities of RIPE are not necessarilty parts of RIPE NCC they are still funded by it :) There is no overall funding for RIPE. For what? Meeting costs and the like are paid for by the meeting participants. Arnold
Re: European Nanog?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ken Gilmour [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Does anyone know of a list like nanog for Europe? I would be interested in subscribing... If your network is member of LINX or AMS-IX you will find there some private lists which discuss a European flavour of many of the things I see on NANOG. -- Roland Perry
Re: European Nanog?
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 06:28:36 +0530, the mental interface of Suresh Ramasubramanian told: Daniel Roesen [12/09/04 20:32 +0200]: But when it comes to mailing list traffic volume, there is no companion that I'm aware of. I rather believe that's a feature, not a bug I'd rather have no mails than tons of gmail invites! -- Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems. -- Linus Torvalds The best way to prepare [to be a programmer] is to write programs, and to study great programs that other people have written. In my case, I went to the garbage cans at the Computer Science Center and I fished out listings of their operating systems. -- Bill Gates, OS/2 Notebook, Microsoft Press, 1990, p. 614
Re: European Nanog?
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004, Arnold Nipper wrote: On 13.09.2004 11:18 Neil J. McRae wrote: Too many nogs- The RIPE NCC ran a Euro Operators forum that was probably the most useful. 1. EOF is still alive though hardly visible/audible. 2. EOF is not a RIPE NCC activity. I'd agree that RIPE is the forum tho, it *is* the foremost industry forum for policies and is well established. Too many splinter groups already... Steve
Re: European Nanog?
2. EOF is not a RIPE NCC activity. actually, it is. but it did not used to be. randy
RE: European Nanog?
You can state what you like, but the income from the NCC is what mostly funds the other RIPE activities, in which case its all the same to me, does the EOF live on a RIPE.NET server? Yes. Who funds those servers? more to the point, who decided meeting content? essentially daniel karrenberg does. randy
Any Kine NOGs? Re: European Nanog?
: The NOG philosophy don't work in Europe. : simply not true. Check out SwiNOG http://www.swinog.ch/ : : And there's NordNOG. Anyone got a list of all english language NOG mailing lists? So far I have AFNOG, SwiNOG (apparently some in english) and SANOG. Thanks, scott
Re: Any Kine NOGs? Re: European Nanog?
: The NOG philosophy don't work in Europe. : simply not true. Check out SwiNOG http://www.swinog.ch/ : And there's NordNOG. Anyone got a list of all english language NOG mailing lists? So far I have AFNOG, SwiNOG (apparently some in english) and SANOG. NZNOG (New Zealand) -Bill
Re: Any Kine NOGs? Re: European Nanog?
At 10:36 13/09/2004 -1000, Scott Weeks wrote: Anyone got a list of all english language NOG mailing lists? So far I have AFNOG, SwiNOG (apparently some in english) and SANOG. My little list includes: NANOG, AfNOG, SANOG, JANOG, EOF, APOPS, SGNOG, NZNOG, NordNOG, SwiNOG, PACNOG So, North America, Africa, South Asia, Japan, Europe, Asia Pacific, Singapore, New Zealand, Nordic Countries, Switzerland, Pacific. There are bound to be others lurking out there... philip --
Re: European Nanog?
On Sun, 2004-09-12 at 19:55, Ken Gilmour wrote: Hi Ken, Does anyone know of a list like nanog for Europe? I would be interested in subscribing... I've learned a lot from this list but would like to find a closer one as well :-) http://euronog.org/mailing-lists.php Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware NDSoftware IP Network: http://www.ip.ndsoftware.net/ FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/
Re: European Nanog?
Brilliant thanks! I got a swiss offlist one too that i subscribed to as well. (looks like they have an interesting ddos tracking one too!) Maybe i should have broadened my google search with euro nog instead of european network operators group. Thanks for your help Regards, Ken On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:05:43 +0200, the mental interface of Nicolas DEFFAYET told: On Sun, 2004-09-12 at 19:55, Ken Gilmour wrote: Hi Ken, Does anyone know of a list like nanog for Europe? I would be interested in subscribing... I've learned a lot from this list but would like to find a closer one as well :-) http://euronog.org/mailing-lists.php Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems. -- Linus Torvalds
Re: European Nanog?
On 12.09.2004 20:05 Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote: On Sun, 2004-09-12 at 19:55, Ken Gilmour wrote: Hi Ken, Does anyone know of a list like nanog for Europe? I would be interested in subscribing... I've learned a lot from this list but would like to find a closer one as well :-) http://euronog.org/mailing-lists.php *LOL* This list is so dead you won't believe it ... There is no real correspondent to NANOG in Europe. EOF (http://www.ripe.net/ripe/wg/eof/index.html) has been iniated to cope with the network/ISP related items within RIPE. Though EOF is not as dead as Euronog is it could be more active. There are EOF workshops/tutorials at almost each RIPE meeting but no discussions in between. As always ... YMMV Arnold
Re: European Nanog?
On Sun, Sep 12, 2004 at 06:55:12PM +0100, Ken Gilmour wrote: Does anyone know of a list like nanog for Europe? http://www.ripe.net/ripe/wg/eof/ But when it comes to mailing list traffic volume, there is no companion that I'm aware of. Many issues are discussed on other specialized RIPE mailing lists. Regards, Daniel
Re: European Nanog?
On Sun, 2004-09-12 at 20:23, Arnold Nipper wrote: On 12.09.2004 20:05 Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote: http://euronog.org/mailing-lists.php *LOL* This list is so dead you won't believe it ... There is no real correspondent to NANOG in Europe. EOF (http://www.ripe.net/ripe/wg/eof/index.html) has been iniated to cope with the network/ISP related items within RIPE. Though EOF is not as dead as Euronog is it could be more active. There are EOF workshops/tutorials at almost each RIPE meeting but no discussions in between. The NOG philosophy don't work in Europe. Same problem of very low activity for local NOG like FRnog, Swissnog,... We have do our best for start an european NOG. There is currently ~ 300 subscribers to the list [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware NDSoftware IP Network: http://www.ip.ndsoftware.net/ FNIX6 (French National Internet Exchange IPv6): http://www.fnix6.net/
RE: European Nanog?
Hi Nicolas The NOG philosophy don't work in Europe. That's not correct. The concept works in switzerland with SwiNOG very well - at least two meetings every year and a good organized communitiy behind SwiNOG. http://www.swinog.ch cheers, michel
Re: European Nanog?
Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote: The NOG philosophy don't work in Europe. Same problem of very low activity for local NOG like FRnog, Swissnog,... simply not true. Check out SwiNOG http://www.swinog.ch/ mort than 500 subscribers, several closed working groups (antispam, lawful interception, BBCS), 2 yearly meetings. And this in a small country of just 7 mio inhabitants. F.
Re: European Nanog?
The NOG philosophy don't work in Europe. simply not true. Check out SwiNOG http://www.swinog.ch/ And there's NordNOG. -Bill
Re: European Nanog?
Daniel Roesen [12/09/04 20:32 +0200]: But when it comes to mailing list traffic volume, there is no companion that I'm aware of. I rather believe that's a feature, not a bug
