RE: IRR/RADB and BGP
On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Andy Dills wrote: > > > I dunno, there are plenty of smaller ASes who have yet to be forced to > > register their routes. > > > > We haven't yet been forced, but I finally got motivated to submit them to > > altdb last night. Altdb definitely rocks. > > Back when I got PI space in 1998, there were definitely some backbones > ignoring routes not found in the IRR. I wonder if they gave up, or people > just don't notice them anymore. They must have either given up or had default routes, because we've been PI since 99, and I've never once had a BGP related reachability issue. Does anybody have any reasonable statistics for networks announced that don't fit an entry in the registry? Andy --- Andy Dills Xecunet, Inc. www.xecu.net 301-682-9972 ---
RE: IRR/RADB and BGP
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Andy Dills wrote: > I dunno, there are plenty of smaller ASes who have yet to be forced to > register their routes. > > We haven't yet been forced, but I finally got motivated to submit them to > altdb last night. Altdb definitely rocks. Back when I got PI space in 1998, there were definitely some backbones ignoring routes not found in the IRR. I wonder if they gave up, or people just don't notice them anymore. -- Jon Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED]| I route System Administrator| therefore you are Atlantic Net| _ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_
RE: IRR/RADB and BGP
Just for clarification, ARIN's Routing Registry is available to any organization or entity, and is not reserved for use by its members only. Currently there is no fee associated with registering in the ARIN RR. For further details, please refer to the following link on ARIN's website: http://www.arin.net/tools/rr.html Regards, Leslie Nobile Director, Registration Services American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 7:04 PM To: Randy Bush Cc: Vandy Hamidi; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: IRR/RADB and BGP On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Randy Bush wrote: > the providers i know who want irr registration provide their own > registry for their customers. if yours does not, there are free > registries around. Just in case they don't, or if you'd rather be provider neutral in case you switch providers or worry the current one will get bought / go under, there's altdb.net (totally free), and IIRC, ARIN has their own routing registry, which I think is free for ARIN members to use. -- Jon Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED]| I route System Administrator| therefore you are Atlantic Net| _ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_
RE: IRR/RADB and BGP
> > > On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Deepak Jain wrote: > > > > > > I strongly approve of such requirement. I know that it is in > the peering > > > agreements of several carriers, but they often don't check or enforce > > > this. Many register customer routes and ASes. If routes and policies > > > were properly registered, securing the Internet would be a lot closer > > > to being possible. > > > > Is it safe to assume (now) that all the routes one would care > to listen to > > (under normal circumstances) > > are registered in an IRR now? I remember there used to be > well-known issues > > with some networks, especially internationally. > > I dunno, there are plenty of smaller ASes who have yet to be forced to > register their routes. Of some importance, yes, definitely, since at least some actors (including Teleglobe, my home) tend to recurse on AS-set when building filters... so unless registrered all the way down/up, filtered... which, by the way, is a good moment/reason to help those "smaller ASes" go register (rather than patching/proxying for them). Cheers, mh > > We haven't yet been forced, but I finally got motivated to submit them to > altdb last night. Altdb definitely rocks. > > Andy > > --- > Andy Dills > Xecunet, Inc. > www.xecu.net > 301-682-9972 > --- > >
RE: IRR/RADB and BGP
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Deepak Jain wrote: > > > I strongly approve of such requirement. I know that it is in the peering > > agreements of several carriers, but they often don't check or enforce > > this. Many register customer routes and ASes. If routes and policies > > were properly registered, securing the Internet would be a lot closer > > to being possible. > > Is it safe to assume (now) that all the routes one would care to listen to > (under normal circumstances) > are registered in an IRR now? I remember there used to be well-known issues > with some networks, especially internationally. I dunno, there are plenty of smaller ASes who have yet to be forced to register their routes. We haven't yet been forced, but I finally got motivated to submit them to altdb last night. Altdb definitely rocks. Andy --- Andy Dills Xecunet, Inc. www.xecu.net 301-682-9972 ---
RE: IRR/RADB and BGP
Negative. -Ejay -Original Message- From: Deepak Jain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:43 PM To: Kevin Oberman; Vandy Hamidi Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IRR/RADB and BGP > I strongly approve of such requirement. I know that it is in the peering > agreements of several carriers, but they often don't check or enforce > this. Many register customer routes and ASes. If routes and policies > were properly registered, securing the Internet would be a lot closer > to being possible. Is it safe to assume (now) that all the routes one would care to listen to (under normal circumstances) are registered in an IRR now? I remember there used to be well-known issues with some networks, especially internationally. Deepak Jain AiNET
RE: IRR/RADB and BGP
> I strongly approve of such requirement. I know that it is in the peering > agreements of several carriers, but they often don't check or enforce > this. Many register customer routes and ASes. If routes and policies > were properly registered, securing the Internet would be a lot closer > to being possible. Is it safe to assume (now) that all the routes one would care to listen to (under normal circumstances) are registered in an IRR now? I remember there used to be well-known issues with some networks, especially internationally. Deepak Jain AiNET
Re: IRR/RADB and BGP
### On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:46:48 -0700, "Kevin Oberman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ### casually decided to expound upon "Vandy Hamidi" ### <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> the following thoughts about "Re: ### IRR/RADB and BGP ": KO> You need to have routes registered in the IRR, but not necessarily the KO> RADB. The RADB is only a part of the IRR. Many larger ISPs and NSPs KO> run their own registries and there are several international KO> registries including APNIC and RIPE. There has been at least one free KO> database out there. I just don't remember the URL. (It's in the KO> archives, but the search may be painful.) RADB mirrors other registries and its server will happily spit out results from multiple sources/mirrors. Thus if you register in say AltDB, your provider will by default get returned your object if they query the RADB server. This of course assumes they are not doing selective source and restricting their searches to that of only RADB. You will want to confirm this with your provider. Tools such as IRRToolSet used for building prefix filters will allow the user to select on a per-query basis (in addition to global) which sources to search against when querying an IRR database. -- /*===[ Jake Khuon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ]==+ | Packet Plumber, Network Engineers /| / [~ [~ |) | | --- | | for Effective Bandwidth Utilisation / |/ [_ [_ |) |_| N E T W O R K S | +=*/
Re: IRR/RADB and BGP
On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 03:30:32PM -0700, Vandy Hamidi wrote: > Cost to register with RADB is $250/year and I want to understand it > before I shell out. http://www.altdb.net/ -- Richard A Steenbergen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras GPG Key ID: 0xF8B12CBC (7535 7F59 8204 ED1F CC1C 53AF 4C41 5ECA F8B1 2CBC)
Re: IRR/RADB and BGP
> Vandy Hamidi wrote: > > Our new ISP is asking that I create a maintainer object in the RADB > and associated AS/Routes for us to be about to eBGP peer. > This is the first time I've been asked by a provider to do this for > something as simple as peering to advertise a couple /24's. > > I've peered with ATT, Sprint, UUnet, Qwest, Savvis, SBC, and Internap > in the past and never had to do anything but have a valid ASN provided > by ARIN. Hey, wait a minute! You've peered with SBCIS and not set up an aut-num and route objects in the RADB? For shame! That's our policy, too. Get with it! > Is this just so they can dynamically build their prefix/as-path lists? It's to avoid having Sprint mocked by L3. > Why would I need to do this and what advantages are there. Cost to > register with RADB is $250/year and I want to understand it before I > shell out. Use ARIN's IRR or AltDB, then. But wouldn't it be nice to support the RADB, and our good friends at Merit? Heck, you could donate a few grand -- I'm sure they'd accept it. Peter E. Fry
Re: IRR/RADB and BGP
Register for free at : http://www.altdb.net James Edwards Routing and Security [EMAIL PROTECTED] At the Santa Fe Office: Internet at Cyber Mesa
Re: IRR/RADB and BGP
On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Randy Bush wrote: > the providers i know who want irr registration provide their own > registry for their customers. if yours does not, there are free > registries around. Just in case they don't, or if you'd rather be provider neutral in case you switch providers or worry the current one will get bought / go under, there's altdb.net (totally free), and IIRC, ARIN has their own routing registry, which I think is free for ARIN members to use. -- Jon Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED]| I route System Administrator| therefore you are Atlantic Net| _ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_
Re: IRR/RADB and BGP
> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:30:32 -0700 > From: "Vandy Hamidi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Our new ISP is asking that I create a maintainer object in the RADB and > associated AS/Routes for us to be about to eBGP peer. > This is the first time I've been asked by a provider to do this for > something as simple as peering to advertise a couple /24's. > > I've peered with ATT, Sprint, UUnet, Qwest, Savvis, SBC, and Internap in > the past and never had to do anything but have a valid ASN provided by > ARIN. > > Is this just so they can dynamically build their prefix/as-path lists? > Why would I need to do this and what advantages are there. Cost to > register with RADB is $250/year and I want to understand it before I > shell out. You need to have routes registered in the IRR, but not necessarily the RADB. The RADB is only a part of the IRR. Many larger ISPs and NSPs run their own registries and there are several international registries including APNIC and RIPE. There has been at least one free database out there. I just don't remember the URL. (It's in the archives, but the search may be painful.) I strongly approve of such requirement. I know that it is in the peering agreements of several carriers, but they often don't check or enforce this. Many register customer routes and ASes. If routes and policies were properly registered, securing the Internet would be a lot closer to being possible. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +1 510 486-8634
Re: IRR/RADB and BGP
> Our new ISP is asking that I create a maintainer object in the > RADB and associated AS/Routes for us to be about to eBGP peer. congrats. you got a quality provider who cares about good safe routing practice. > Is this just so they can dynamically build their prefix/as-path > lists? i would hope they do. > Why would I need to do this and what advantages are there. Cost > to register with RADB is $250/year and I want to understand it > before I shell out. the providers i know who want irr registration provide their own registry for their customers. if yours does not, there are free registries around. randy
