Re: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question..
Wouldn't the easiest (at least short term) thing be for IANA (or someone else authoritative-like) to put up a text file (not that I'm really sure how many blocks this entails) available via http or ftp for people to periodically wget, etc. Surely IANA, ARIN, or someone else has some type of up-to date database that they could script, etc to generate this file? On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 06:36:04PM -0700, John M. Brown wrote: First, standard disclaimers.. 1. This is a technical email. 2. I'm not speaking for any organization, other than ME. In the last 72 hours I've seen over 3GB of data hit a network I play with with source IP's of IANA-RESERVED space. Various people have reported seeing IANA-RSERVED get announced via BGP at different parts of the net. Various people maintain lists of IANA-RESERVED space and other such special use or reserved prefixes. These lists are used by others to generate filters, ACL's and the like. When IANA allocates a new prefix to a RIR, these lists have to be updated manually. Sometime after the space has been put into service and someone complains. Give the above, would it make sense for: A) The IANA to maintain a IRR/RADB type database that would allow for the auto generation of filters and ACL's based *purely* on RESERVED IANA space. No other prefixs would be listed. or B) For one or more of the RIR's (APNIC, ARIN, LACNIC, RIPE, etc) to maintain such a database, again only IANA-RSERVED space. or C) One of the existing well known IRR/RADB's to maintain the db ? If such a database was available, would YOU use it ? Would it help your network operations? Would it be of a possitive or negative nature to your network? Lets try to stay away from the obvious potential flames and other religous statements. Thank you. John Brown Speaking a single person
RE: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question..
http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space If folks want me to split it to show 256 lines (one per /8) I can have that happen. Don't want to have multiple sources of the data, so for now that's probably easiest. I'll watch this discussion with interest. If people think something is useful at the IANA level I'll do my best to make it happen. _ John Crain Manager of Technical Operations ICANN [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1AF4 F638 4B2D 3EF2 F9BA 99E4 8D85 69A7 _ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Meltzer Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 11:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question.. Wouldn't the easiest (at least short term) thing be for IANA (or someone else authoritative-like) to put up a text file (not that I'm really sure how many blocks this entails) available via http or ftp for people to periodically wget, etc. Surely IANA, ARIN, or someone else has some type of up-to date database that they could script, etc to generate this file? On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 06:36:04PM -0700, John M. Brown wrote: First, standard disclaimers.. 1. This is a technical email. 2. I'm not speaking for any organization, other than ME. In the last 72 hours I've seen over 3GB of data hit a network I play with with source IP's of IANA-RESERVED space. Various people have reported seeing IANA-RSERVED get announced via BGP at different parts of the net. Various people maintain lists of IANA-RESERVED space and other such special use or reserved prefixes. These lists are used by others to generate filters, ACL's and the like. When IANA allocates a new prefix to a RIR, these lists have to be updated manually. Sometime after the space has been put into service and someone complains. Give the above, would it make sense for: A) The IANA to maintain a IRR/RADB type database that would allow for the auto generation of filters and ACL's based *purely* on RESERVED IANA space. No other prefixs would be listed. or B) For one or more of the RIR's (APNIC, ARIN, LACNIC, RIPE, etc) to maintain such a database, again only IANA-RSERVED space. or C) One of the existing well known IRR/RADB's to maintain the db ? If such a database was available, would YOU use it ? Would it help your network operations? Would it be of a possitive or negative nature to your network? Lets try to stay away from the obvious potential flames and other religous statements. Thank you. John Brown Speaking a single person
Re: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question..
Speaking for myself too: I have been wanting an *authoritative* *single* listing of unallocated address space for at least 6 years. Note that this is at a finer granularity than the IANA allocations list and it would have much more frequent changes than the IANA list as address space is allocated to local registries. However it could include a more coarse data set that changes less frequently for those that do not want or need the higher granularity. The only way to make this happen is for the RIRs to collect this data among themselves and publish it regularly. Because of the possible ramifications of errors in this list it is not as simple to do that reliably as it may seem at first glance; but it should be done. I know that the RIRs have efforts underway to publish such authoritative lists. I do not know the exact status of this work. But I fully agree with your requirement for a *single* *authoritative* list. Of course I would use it in the routers I operate. However these are not significant to many peoiple these days. Daniel PS: I do not care at all about the format as long as it is readily machine parseable. Daniel
Re: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question..
Daniel, Daniel Karrenberg wrote: Speaking for myself too: [...] I know that the RIRs have efforts underway to publish such authoritative lists. I do not know the exact status of this work. But I fully agree with your requirement for a *single* *authoritative* list. Yes, we at the RIPE NCC are working on such list. However the task, as you said, is not as easy as it seems to be. We have to be confident in the data we publish and this requires some work especially regarding early registrations. There are also efforts by the RIRs to make allocation records more accurate and appearing in the right RIR, the ERX project for instance http://www.arin.net/registration/erx/index.html. Of course I would use it in the routers I operate. However these are not significant to many peoiple these days. Daniel PS: I do not care at all about the format as long as it is readily machine parseable. Daniel Regards, Andrei Robachevsky DB Group Manager RIPE NCC
Re: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question..
We need to be careful, at the RIR level, that data being published doesn't get mucked up. If a RIR publishes a netblock as unallocated and that happens to knock people off the net, then the RIR's need to be willing to solve that problem 7x24x365. Having the IANA, or other entity publishing a list of blocks that have not been allocated to any RIR is much less of a risk, and much less likely to cause operational outage issues. At the RIR level, it would be far more useful to have accurate data on who the registrant / user of the space it. I know the RIR's are working very hard at getting the legacy data in better condition. john brown as a person, and nothing else On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 12:46:13PM +0200, Daniel Karrenberg wrote: Speaking for myself too: I have been wanting an *authoritative* *single* listing of unallocated address space for at least 6 years. Note that this is at a finer granularity than the IANA allocations list and it would have much more frequent changes than the IANA list as address space is allocated to local registries. However it could include a more coarse data set that changes less frequently for those that do not want or need the higher granularity. The only way to make this happen is for the RIRs to collect this data among themselves and publish it regularly. Because of the possible ramifications of errors in this list it is not as simple to do that reliably as it may seem at first glance; but it should be done. I know that the RIRs have efforts underway to publish such authoritative lists. I do not know the exact status of this work. But I fully agree with your requirement for a *single* *authoritative* list. Of course I would use it in the routers I operate. However these are not significant to many peoiple these days. Daniel PS: I do not care at all about the format as long as it is readily machine parseable. Daniel
Re: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question..
They are not bogus, hence the sub-deligation, and hence a good reason to have a more detailed source of information. I would suspect that this block should be chopped a bit to reflect the IANA/ICANN usage. This block was first routed on the internet via AS 226 around late summer early fall 1999. On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 10:08:00AM -0400, David Charlap wrote: John M. Brown wrote: In the last 72 hours I've seen over 3GB of data hit a network I play with with source IP's of IANA-RESERVED space. Just out of curiosity, do you know that these are bogus source addresses? Some of the IANA-RESERVED block is actually valid and is used by IANA's computers. My company was blocking all of the IANA-RESERVED space for a while, until we discovered that the IANA web server is using an address in that space. Note: $dig www.iana.org a ; DiG 2.0 www.iana.org a ;; -HEADER- opcode: QUERY , status: NOERROR, id: 6 ;; flags: qr rd ra ; Ques: 1, Ans: 1, Auth: 6, Addit: 6 ;; QUESTIONS: ;; www.iana.org, type = A, class = IN ;; ANSWERS: www.iana.org. 68055 A 192.0.34.69 ... and: $whois -h whois.arin.net 192.0.34.69 IANA RESERVED-192 (NET-192-0-0-0-1) 192.0.0.0 - 192.0.127.255 ICANN c/o Internet Assigned Numbers Authority ICANN (NET-192-0-32-0-1) 192.0.32.0 - 192.0.47.255 Various people have reported seeing IANA-RSERVED get announced via BGP at different parts of the net. Again, bogus addresses or legitimate IANA servers? Not everything in IANA-RESERVED is bogus. -- David
Re: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question..
On Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:08:00 -0400 David Charlap [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John M. Brown wrote: In the last 72 hours I've seen over 3GB of data hit a network I play with with source IP's of IANA-RESERVED space. Just out of curiosity, do you know that these are bogus source addresses? Some of the IANA-RESERVED block is actually valid and is used by IANA's computers. My company was blocking all of the IANA-RESERVED space for a while, until we discovered that the IANA web server is using an address in that space. This seems like an unwise overlaying of the IANA-RESERVED space to me. Why can't IANA allocate itself a /20 (or whatever it needs) and keep IANA-RESERVED space for unallocated addresses (plus maybe experimental uses that can and should be filtered at every border). Regards Marshall Eubanks that Note: $dig www.iana.org a ; DiG 2.0 www.iana.org a ;; -HEADER- opcode: QUERY , status: NOERROR, id: 6 ;; flags: qr rd ra ; Ques: 1, Ans: 1, Auth: 6, Addit: 6 ;; QUESTIONS: ;; www.iana.org, type = A, class = IN ;; ANSWERS: www.iana.org. 68055 A 192.0.34.69 ... and: $whois -h whois.arin.net 192.0.34.69 IANA RESERVED-192 (NET-192-0-0-0-1) 192.0.0.0 - 192.0.127.255 ICANN c/o Internet Assigned Numbers Authority ICANN (NET-192-0-32-0-1) 192.0.32.0 - 192.0.47.255 Various people have reported seeing IANA-RSERVED get announced via BGP at different parts of the net. Again, bogus addresses or legitimate IANA servers? Not everything in IANA-RESERVED is bogus. -- David
RE: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question..
Yes. 256 lines is probably better, just to make it easily portable. Also I'd like to see the list of how the ips are split between reginal registries for whois purposes. For example blocks like 3.0.0.0/8 or 4.0.0.0/8 have records in ARIN. I think therefore they should be listed as ARIN blocks even if they are used entirely by one company. What I'd like to see if format like this: block registrydate of allocation comment (purpose) And additional list which has list of all ip registries and contact info for each one include website, whois server, etc. I also would like to see ICANN can put all /8 (its only 256 records) in its whois server and have this information available there as well. On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, John Crain wrote: http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space If folks want me to split it to show 256 lines (one per /8) I can have that happen. Don't want to have multiple sources of the data, so for now that's probably easiest. I'll watch this discussion with interest. If people think something is useful at the IANA level I'll do my best to make it happen. _ John Crain Manager of Technical Operations ICANN [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1AF4 F638 4B2D 3EF2 F9BA 99E4 8D85 69A7 _ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Meltzer Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 11:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question.. Wouldn't the easiest (at least short term) thing be for IANA (or someone else authoritative-like) to put up a text file (not that I'm really sure how many blocks this entails) available via http or ftp for people to periodically wget, etc. Surely IANA, ARIN, or someone else has some type of up-to date database that they could script, etc to generate this file? On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 06:36:04PM -0700, John M. Brown wrote: First, standard disclaimers.. 1. This is a technical email. 2. I'm not speaking for any organization, other than ME. In the last 72 hours I've seen over 3GB of data hit a network I play with with source IP's of IANA-RESERVED space. Various people have reported seeing IANA-RSERVED get announced via BGP at different parts of the net. Various people maintain lists of IANA-RESERVED space and other such special use or reserved prefixes. These lists are used by others to generate filters, ACL's and the like. When IANA allocates a new prefix to a RIR, these lists have to be updated manually. Sometime after the space has been put into service and someone complains. Give the above, would it make sense for: A) The IANA to maintain a IRR/RADB type database that would allow for the auto generation of filters and ACL's based *purely* on RESERVED IANA space. No other prefixs would be listed. or B) For one or more of the RIR's (APNIC, ARIN, LACNIC, RIPE, etc) to maintain such a database, again only IANA-RSERVED space. or C) One of the existing well known IRR/RADB's to maintain the db ? If such a database was available, would YOU use it ? Would it help your network operations? Would it be of a possitive or negative nature to your network? Lets try to stay away from the obvious potential flames and other religous statements. Thank you. John Brown Speaking a single person -- William Leibzon Elan Communications Inc.
RE: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question..
Actually let me correct myself... The format I think would be better is: block date-of-current-allocation registrycomment/purpose I don't want to see separate lines below like (Formerly Stanford University - Apr 93). This should be part of the comment on the same line and date should always be the last change, i.e. 049/8 Joint Technical Command May 94 Returned to IANAMar 98 should actually be: 049/8 Mar98 IANAFormerly Joint Technical Command (May 94 - Mar 98) On Wed, 4 Sep 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes. 256 lines is probably better, just to make it easily portable. Also I'd like to see the list of how the ips are split between reginal registries for whois purposes. For example blocks like 3.0.0.0/8 or 4.0.0.0/8 have records in ARIN. I think therefore they should be listed as ARIN blocks even if they are used entirely by one company. What I'd like to see if format like this: block registrydate of allocation comment (purpose) And additional list which has list of all ip registries and contact info for each one include website, whois server, etc. I also would like to see ICANN can put all /8 (its only 256 records) in its whois server and have this information available there as well. On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, John Crain wrote: http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space If folks want me to split it to show 256 lines (one per /8) I can have that happen. Don't want to have multiple sources of the data, so for now that's probably easiest. I'll watch this discussion with interest. If people think something is useful at the IANA level I'll do my best to make it happen. _ John Crain Manager of Technical Operations ICANN [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1AF4 F638 4B2D 3EF2 F9BA 99E4 8D85 69A7 _ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Meltzer Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 11:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question.. Wouldn't the easiest (at least short term) thing be for IANA (or someone else authoritative-like) to put up a text file (not that I'm really sure how many blocks this entails) available via http or ftp for people to periodically wget, etc. Surely IANA, ARIN, or someone else has some type of up-to date database that they could script, etc to generate this file? On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 06:36:04PM -0700, John M. Brown wrote: First, standard disclaimers.. 1. This is a technical email. 2. I'm not speaking for any organization, other than ME. In the last 72 hours I've seen over 3GB of data hit a network I play with with source IP's of IANA-RESERVED space. Various people have reported seeing IANA-RSERVED get announced via BGP at different parts of the net. Various people maintain lists of IANA-RESERVED space and other such special use or reserved prefixes. These lists are used by others to generate filters, ACL's and the like. When IANA allocates a new prefix to a RIR, these lists have to be updated manually. Sometime after the space has been put into service and someone complains. Give the above, would it make sense for: A) The IANA to maintain a IRR/RADB type database that would allow for the auto generation of filters and ACL's based *purely* on RESERVED IANA space. No other prefixs would be listed. or B) For one or more of the RIR's (APNIC, ARIN, LACNIC, RIPE, etc) to maintain such a database, again only IANA-RSERVED space. or C) One of the existing well known IRR/RADB's to maintain the db ? If such a database was available, would YOU use it ? Would it help your network operations? Would it be of a possitive or negative nature to your network? Lets try to stay away from the obvious potential flames and other religous statements. Thank you. John Brown Speaking a single person
RE: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question..
List the 128-191/8 allocations first. Getting this information from the RIR's has been tedious. After that, details on each /8 for all 256 lines would be useful. It is a stepping stone to some of other suggestions that are bound to come out of this thread. Rob Thomas and I have been playing around with a more stricter ingress prefix filter template to help ISPs get out of the I only filter RFC1918 rut. You can check out the drafts at: http://www.cisco.com/public/con/isp/security/ The big question was a consensus on how to handle a template recommendation for the old B space and C. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John Crain Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 1:04 AM To: 'Jeffrey Meltzer'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question.. http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space If folks want me to split it to show 256 lines (one per /8) I can have that happen. Don't want to have multiple sources of the data, so for now that's probably easiest. I'll watch this discussion with interest. If people think something is useful at the IANA level I'll do my best to make it happen. _ John Crain Manager of Technical Operations ICANN [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1AF4 F638 4B2D 3EF2 F9BA 99E4 8D85 69A7 _ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Meltzer Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 11:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question.. Wouldn't the easiest (at least short term) thing be for IANA (or someone else authoritative-like) to put up a text file (not that I'm really sure how many blocks this entails) available via http or ftp for people to periodically wget, etc. Surely IANA, ARIN, or someone else has some type of up-to date database that they could script, etc to generate this file? On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 06:36:04PM -0700, John M. Brown wrote: First, standard disclaimers.. 1. This is a technical email. 2. I'm not speaking for any organization, other than ME. In the last 72 hours I've seen over 3GB of data hit a network I play with with source IP's of IANA-RESERVED space. Various people have reported seeing IANA-RSERVED get announced via BGP at different parts of the net. Various people maintain lists of IANA-RESERVED space and other such special use or reserved prefixes. These lists are used by others to generate filters, ACL's and the like. When IANA allocates a new prefix to a RIR, these lists have to be updated manually. Sometime after the space has been put into service and someone complains. Give the above, would it make sense for: A) The IANA to maintain a IRR/RADB type database that would allow for the auto generation of filters and ACL's based *purely* on RESERVED IANA space. No other prefixs would be listed. or B) For one or more of the RIR's (APNIC, ARIN, LACNIC, RIPE, etc) to maintain such a database, again only IANA-RSERVED space. or C) One of the existing well known IRR/RADB's to maintain the db ? If such a database was available, would YOU use it ? Would it help your network operations? Would it be of a possitive or negative nature to your network? Lets try to stay away from the obvious potential flames and other religous statements. Thank you. John Brown Speaking a single person
RE: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question..
Whoops that should be http://www.cisco.com/public/cons/isp/security/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Barry Raveendran Greene Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 1:29 PM To: John Crain; 'Jeffrey Meltzer'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question.. List the 128-191/8 allocations first. Getting this information from the RIR's has been tedious. After that, details on each /8 for all 256 lines would be useful. It is a stepping stone to some of other suggestions that are bound to come out of this thread. Rob Thomas and I have been playing around with a more stricter ingress prefix filter template to help ISPs get out of the I only filter RFC1918 rut. You can check out the drafts at: http://www.cisco.com/public/con/isp/security/ The big question was a consensus on how to handle a template recommendation for the old B space and C. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John Crain Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 1:04 AM To: 'Jeffrey Meltzer'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question.. http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space If folks want me to split it to show 256 lines (one per /8) I can have that happen. Don't want to have multiple sources of the data, so for now that's probably easiest. I'll watch this discussion with interest. If people think something is useful at the IANA level I'll do my best to make it happen. _ John Crain Manager of Technical Operations ICANN [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1AF4 F638 4B2D 3EF2 F9BA 99E4 8D85 69A7 _ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Meltzer Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 11:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question.. Wouldn't the easiest (at least short term) thing be for IANA (or someone else authoritative-like) to put up a text file (not that I'm really sure how many blocks this entails) available via http or ftp for people to periodically wget, etc. Surely IANA, ARIN, or someone else has some type of up-to date database that they could script, etc to generate this file? On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 06:36:04PM -0700, John M. Brown wrote: First, standard disclaimers.. 1. This is a technical email. 2. I'm not speaking for any organization, other than ME. In the last 72 hours I've seen over 3GB of data hit a network I play with with source IP's of IANA-RESERVED space. Various people have reported seeing IANA-RSERVED get announced via BGP at different parts of the net. Various people maintain lists of IANA-RESERVED space and other such special use or reserved prefixes. These lists are used by others to generate filters, ACL's and the like. When IANA allocates a new prefix to a RIR, these lists have to be updated manually. Sometime after the space has been put into service and someone complains. Give the above, would it make sense for: A) The IANA to maintain a IRR/RADB type database that would allow for the auto generation of filters and ACL's based *purely* on RESERVED IANA space. No other prefixs would be listed. or B) For one or more of the RIR's (APNIC, ARIN, LACNIC, RIPE, etc) to maintain such a database, again only IANA-RSERVED space. or C) One of the existing well known IRR/RADB's to maintain the db ? If such a database was available, would YOU use it ? Would it help your network operations? Would it be of a possitive or negative nature to your network? Lets try to stay away from the obvious potential flames and other religous statements. Thank you. John Brown Speaking a single person
RE: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question..
List the 128-191/8 allocations first. Getting this information from the RIR's has been tedious. Unless IANA was responsible for those initial allocations, it should not be IANA's task to make this list. And if IANA makes such a list I think it should be separate from the /8 list presented at http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space I'd much rather have regional registries list information for customers for all blocks for companies that are located in their territory. And that means information for initial allocations made prior to APNIC/RIPE should be moved to those registraries with link available from ARIN. All those /8 which IANA currently lists as having multiple registries are in reality in ARIN's database currently so we might as well consider ARIN to be responsible registry, however in case where majority of allocations in that block are going to custoers in other region, IANA should consider having another RIR be made reponsible for that /8 block. My opinion is that we have chosen right approach by having a heirchy of responsibilities for ip allocations, i.e. IANA-RIR-ISP-customer. We should try to keep to this strategy and for old records have the information transfered to approriate authority. IANA should only keep records for entire /8 in the end. After that, details on each /8 for all 256 lines would be useful. It is a stepping stone to some of other suggestions that are bound to come out of this thread. Rob Thomas and I have been playing around with a more stricter ingress prefix filter template to help ISPs get out of the I only filter RFC1918 rut. You can check out the drafts at: http://www.cisco.com/public/con/isp/security/ The big question was a consensus on how to handle a template recommendation for the old B space and C. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John Crain Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 1:04 AM To: 'Jeffrey Meltzer'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question.. http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space If folks want me to split it to show 256 lines (one per /8) I can have that happen. Don't want to have multiple sources of the data, so for now that's probably easiest. I'll watch this discussion with interest. If people think something is useful at the IANA level I'll do my best to make it happen. _ John Crain Manager of Technical Operations ICANN [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1AF4 F638 4B2D 3EF2 F9BA 99E4 8D85 69A7 _ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Meltzer Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 11:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question.. Wouldn't the easiest (at least short term) thing be for IANA (or someone else authoritative-like) to put up a text file (not that I'm really sure how many blocks this entails) available via http or ftp for people to periodically wget, etc. Surely IANA, ARIN, or someone else has some type of up-to date database that they could script, etc to generate this file? On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 06:36:04PM -0700, John M. Brown wrote: First, standard disclaimers.. 1. This is a technical email. 2. I'm not speaking for any organization, other than ME. In the last 72 hours I've seen over 3GB of data hit a network I play with with source IP's of IANA-RESERVED space. Various people have reported seeing IANA-RSERVED get announced via BGP at different parts of the net. Various people maintain lists of IANA-RESERVED space and other such special use or reserved prefixes. These lists are used by others to generate filters, ACL's and the like. When IANA allocates a new prefix to a RIR, these lists have to be updated manually. Sometime after the space has been put into service and someone complains. Give the above, would it make sense for: A) The IANA to maintain a IRR/RADB type database that would allow for the auto generation of filters and ACL's based *purely* on RESERVED IANA space. No other prefixs would be listed. or B) For one or more of the RIR's (APNIC, ARIN, LACNIC, RIPE, etc) to maintain such a database, again only IANA-RSERVED space. or C) One of the existing well known IRR/RADB's to maintain the db ? If such a database was available, would YOU use it ? Would it help your network operations? Would it be of a possitive or negative nature to your network? Lets try to stay away from the obvious potential flames and other religous statements. Thank you. John Brown Speaking
RE: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question..
On Wed, 4 Sep 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: List the 128-191/8 allocations first. Getting this information from the RIR's has been tedious. Unless IANA was responsible for those initial allocations, it should not be IANA's task to make this list. And if IANA makes such a list I think it should be separate from the /8 list presented at http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space Originally IANA (Postel) allocated all the numbers. So if its old enough, or special enough like the Cable net 24, it originally came from IANA. But who really cares if it originally was allocated by IANA? Over the years, parts of blocks have been allocated by different groups. In some cases part of the allocations in a network range were originally done by one group, and part way throug the range the maintenance was transfered to a different organization (e.g. maintenance of the 24 block was transfered to ARIN). At the simiplest, figuring out who did what when is still a mess. But we do NOT need to answer that question. If an address block has NOT been allocated by IANA, it should NEVER appear in the global Internet routing table exchanged between ISPs. To make that a positive statement, according to IANA has block X been allocated for unicast routing purposes? We don't need to know who, where, when, why. Just what. Net/8 Allocated for unicast routing on Internet 0/8 N 1/8 N 2/8 N 3/8 Y 4/8 Y ... 10/8N ... 127/8 N ... 224/8 N ... 255/8 N I know, what about multicast, what about Class E addresses, what about addresses allocated by IANA but not by the RIR, ... All great questions. People want this information so they can filter their BGP routing tables. What addresses are legal (following the liberal in what you accept, conservative in what you send motto) for the global Internet BGP routing table. As a first cut let's document, preferably in a machine readable form for easy updating, what are the network blocks allocated for use.
RE: IRR listing of IANA-reserved, a question..
On Wed, 4 Sep 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I used the list posted at iana and created the list in the what I think is better for use by own whois server. Its likely to be of use to others. Also based on suggestion by Sean Donelan column has been added if /8 block is or should be routable or not (my own opinion). The list is available at http://www.completewhois.com/iana-ipv4-addresses I'm also posting it here below (you're free to modify or not and use it for whatever purposes you desire): 92 /8s reserved... Since the start of 1999, ARIN has grown by 6 /8s, APNIC and RIPE by 4 each, for a total of 14 /8s in almost 4 years. Call it an even /4 per 4 years, for an average of a /6 per year. Now, assume some acceleration in growth...say global assignment increases to /7 per year starting next year, which I think is unreasonable but illustrative for the sake of the point. That would still provide space for the next 10+ years. And looking at the list, there are still several companies who have unreasonable allocations. You have weird things like Eli Lilly and Company, Ford, US Postal Service, Prudential Securities, Interop Show Network, Halliburton Company, Apple, Xerox, Computer Sciences Corporation, etc. I'm sure these companies have legitimate needs for large amounts of address space, but they most likely don't even need a /8 combined. Surely the US-DOD (with 10 /8s to their name) would like to renumber into rfc1918 space for a myriad of reasons. If not, one would think that can be reduced considerably. This is all ignoring the considerable amount of dead space in 128/2. Does anybody keep statistics about what percentage of useable space is announced? So...my question is, without a marketable product, and without a need for the considerable future, will IPv6 remain a barely supported protocol for too long to be implemented? Will IPv6 be surpassed by a superior protocol before it becomes neccessary to be implemented? 10 years is a long time... Andy Andy Dills 301-682-9972 Xecunet, LLCwww.xecu.net Dialup * Webhosting * E-Commerce * High-Speed Access
