Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
NANOG is not a general purpose router help mailing list. Issues discussed here are supposed to be relevant to the North American ISP community. Please take this question to a FreeBSD mailing list. Thanks, -Don ls it possible to have 2 default routes? or how can I do the rebundant when the route is still working either eth1 or eth2 down? Router2 192.168.0.2/20 eth1 192.168.0.18/20 eth2 10.0.0.1 eth3 ip route 0.0.0.0/0 192.168.0.1 ip route 0.0.0.0/0 192.168.0.17 or ip route 0.0.0.0/0 192.168.0.1 ip route 0.0.0.0/0 192.168.0.17 2 Router1 192.168.0.1 eth 192.168.0.17 eth2 172.16.0.1 eth3 host1 10.0.0.2 connects R2 couldn't ping host2 172.16.0.2 connects R1 when the link 192.168.0.1 is down host1-R1--Switch---R2-host2 --Switch--- i am using freebsd router Thank you for your help Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
Donald Stahl wrote: > > NANOG is not a general purpose router help mailing list. Issues > discussed here are supposed to be relevant to the North American ISP > community. excuse? configuring routers is not operational in north america? have you gone completely layer 2 over there? randy
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
ls it possible to have 2 default routes? No .. not in the literal sense. or how can I do the rebundant when the route is still working either eth1 or eth2 down? What you do in this case is create an equal weighted preference for each of the two routes, along with tests to ensure each link is up and modify your pf rules accordingly. example1 (this is for netfilter) : http://lartc.org/howto/lartc.rpdb.multiple-links.html example2 (freebsd specific) : http://www.freebsddiary.org/phorum/read.php?f=6&i=79&t=79 As others have mentioned, this is a question for the various FreeBSD mailing lists .. Cheers, Michael Holstein Cleveland State University
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
NANOG is not a general purpose router help mailing list. Issues discussed here are supposed to be relevant to the North American ISP community. excuse? configuring routers is not operational in north america? have you gone completely layer 2 over there? Are you seriously going to sit there and claim that someone asking about how to set up 2 default routes on a FreeBSD box is operationally or technically relevant to the NANOG community at large? I believe their email fails the NANOG pre-posting guide (specifically #3) and furthermore that it would be far better answered on a FreeBSD specific mailing list. This same person posted a question on Wednesday about MTU's stating "Why? but I still don't know why mtu can cause this problem." I seriously doubt this was relevant to the thousands of people who read this list but I could be wrong about that one too. Perhaps someone from the MLC can comment on whether these sorts of posts qualify as relevant. On the other hand, if you really want to answer these sorts of questions then perhaps people can email you directly? I personally think NANOG has enough noise as it is. -Don
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (ann kok) writes: > Hi > > ls it possible to have 2 default routes? > or how can I do the rebundant when the route is still > working either eth1 or eth2 down? > ... > i am using freebsd router see http://www.cctec.com/maillists/nanog/historical/9706/msg00237.html and http://gatekeeper.hpl.hp.com/archive/pub/misc/vixie/ifdefault/ -- Paul Vixie
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 2:25 PM, Donald Stahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On the other hand, if you really want to answer these sorts of questions > then perhaps people can email you directly? I personally think NANOG has > enough noise as it is. I've always been under the impression NANOG's primary goal is to foster learning and best practices for operating networks. just because a question is simplistic doesn't mean it isn't on topic and helpful towards promoting best practices at large. my two cents, aaron
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
Sorry all. i don't want to make any argument For me, i really want to get mailling list about networking to help. and I heard there are professional networking guys in nanog. they might help me. I still have many networking questions. for the mtu issue, I couldn't find out until I know someone changes the mtu. it really made me panic before. honestly, telecom company couldn't help me. I still don't know how they setup the jumbo frame in their side but DSL clients are only using mtu1492. Another question about private address, my router upstream interface can listen many private address. I asked the upstream ISP but they said they don't have any private address export. we have /30 connect to them. where is the private addresses coming? have you encountered this problem? if you think my question is not good, please ignore it Thank you again --- Donald Stahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> NANOG is not a general purpose router help > mailing list. Issues > >> discussed here are supposed to be relevant to the > North American ISP > >> community. > > > > excuse? configuring routers is not operational in > north america? have > > you gone completely layer 2 over there? > Are you seriously going to sit there and claim that > someone asking about > how to set up 2 default routes on a FreeBSD box is > operationally > or technically relevant to the NANOG community at > large? > > I believe their email fails the NANOG pre-posting > guide (specifically #3) > and furthermore that it would be far better answered > on a FreeBSD specific > mailing list. > > This same person posted a question on Wednesday > about MTU's stating "Why? > but I still don't know why mtu can cause this > problem." I seriously doubt > this was relevant to the thousands of people who > read this list but I > could be wrong about that one too. > > Perhaps someone from the MLC can comment on whether > these sorts of posts > qualify as relevant. > > On the other hand, if you really want to answer > these sorts of questions > then perhaps people can email you directly? I > personally think NANOG has > enough noise as it is. > > -Don > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008, ann kok wrote: > > Sorry all. i don't want to make any argument Don't worry, the argument is elsewhere. :) > For me, i really want to get mailling list about > networking to help. and I heard there are professional > networking guys in nanog. they might help me. There's certainly a lot of clue here. Its just coloured by 15+ years of jaded network and systems support. :) > I still have many networking questions. > > for the mtu issue, I couldn't find out until I know > someone changes the mtu. it really made me panic > before. > honestly, telecom company couldn't help me. I still > don't know how they setup the jumbo frame in their > side but DSL clients are only using mtu1492. Approach it scientifically. The trouble with not having exposure to low-level stuff as a pre-requisite for doing higher-level stuff is that you've probably missed out on all of the boring details that you could feed into solving the issue methodically. Path MTU discovery pops up as one of those things you'd think about after you learn about ICMP and PMTU in an intro networking course or book. (Or in my case, junior sysadmin, IRC and hanging around NANOG/RIPE meetings..) A lot of modern CPEs will actually rewrite the MSS of the TCP connection to make sure frames aren't bigger than the ISP provided MTU, thus trying to avoid PMTU. The trouble is that devices -other than the ISP/CPE- could be filtering PMTU, and sometimes its unavoidable to run MTU < 1500 to the client. (in fact, on a completely side note, sometimes you -want- to run small client-facing MTUs.) > Another question about private address, my router > upstream interface can listen many private address. > I asked the upstream ISP but they said they don't have > any private address export. > we have /30 connect to them. where is the private > addresses coming? > have you encountered this problem? Which private addresses? A number of ISPs will use RFC1918 addresses on PtP links to clients (and their dial infrastructure!), assigning real public IPs on the PPP end-points. Some others (like my 3G mobile broadband provider) run their entire dial infrastructure and end-user addressing on RFC1918 and do NAT elsewhere. "Private address export" needs defining too? Adrian
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
Is this for real? Someone asks a harmless question about setting up multiple default routes, not about Barack Obama or whether the moon is made of green cheese, but about default routes. Then 10 people decide to respond that this isn't appropriate for nanog. Then 25 people decide to dispute that. Then 50 people are arguing (ok maybe I exaggerate but just a little) about it. So the person who asked the original question feels bad and apologizes. And 5 people decide to tell her there's nothing to apologize for. And 10 people dispute that...and...what next? Oh, right, and next I feel an urge to write this idiotic meta-meta-meta-note. I think psychologists have a term for this, "chaotic instability disorder" or something like that. Maybe what we need are NANOG GREETERS! Hello, welcome to Nanog, can we help you find something? Hello, welcome to Nanog, can we help you find something?... -- -Barry Shein The World | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD| Login: Nationwide Software Tool & Die| Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo*
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Barry Shein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Is this for real? > > Someone asks a harmless question about setting up multiple default > routes, not about Barack Obama or whether the moon is made of green > cheese, but about default routes. > > Then 10 people decide to respond that this isn't appropriate for nanog. > > Then 25 people decide to dispute that. > > Then 50 people are arguing (ok maybe I exaggerate but just a little) > about it. > > So the person who asked the original question feels bad and apologizes. > > And 5 people decide to tell her there's nothing to apologize for. > > And 10 people dispute that...and...what next? Oh, right, and next I > feel an urge to write this idiotic meta-meta-meta-note. > > I think psychologists have a term for this, "chaotic instability > disorder" or something like that. > > Maybe what we need are NANOG GREETERS! > > Hello, welcome to Nanog, can we help you find something? Hello, > welcome to Nanog, can we help you find something?... Blue light special in slot 5? V6 only STM64's now half price! I dont think that there's any issue at all to be honest. NANOG isn't just for the clued. Best, Marty
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
If we do not help the newbies how will they ever become clued. I can certainly remember when I did not know a bit from a byte. Oh and btw I'll take 5 of those STM64's on special... Regards all - Scott Martin Hannigan wrote: On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Barry Shein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Is this for real? Someone asks a harmless question about setting up multiple default routes, not about Barack Obama or whether the moon is made of green cheese, but about default routes. Then 10 people decide to respond that this isn't appropriate for nanog. Then 25 people decide to dispute that. Then 50 people are arguing (ok maybe I exaggerate but just a little) about it. So the person who asked the original question feels bad and apologizes. And 5 people decide to tell her there's nothing to apologize for. And 10 people dispute that...and...what next? Oh, right, and next I feel an urge to write this idiotic meta-meta-meta-note. I think psychologists have a term for this, "chaotic instability disorder" or something like that. Maybe what we need are NANOG GREETERS! Hello, welcome to Nanog, can we help you find something? Hello, welcome to Nanog, can we help you find something?... Blue light special in slot 5? V6 only STM64's now half price! I dont think that there's any issue at all to be honest. NANOG isn't just for the clued. Best, Marty
RE: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
Scott McGrath wrote: > If we do not help the newbies how will they ever become clued. I can > certainly remember when I did not know a bit from a byte. I agree, but I question if NANOG is the appropriate medium for such help. I tend to (maybe mistakenly) assume a working knowledge of basic multihoming concepts is essentially a prerequisite for active participation on the NANOG mailing list. Isn't this akin to posting to a profesional mathematics forum asking for help with your Algebra? I know I read the list for high-level discussions of the issues facing North American network operators, not for a rehash of multihoming 101. Certainly helping to educate newcomers can go a long way towards making all of lives easier, but that seems outside the scope of NANOG-L. If NANOG isn't the appropriate forum for those types of discussions, what is? Where should we be referring people to have clue bestowed upon them? Is there a lack of alternatives out there for such discussion? [vendor]-nsp seems like a decent choice for questions such as the one that sparked this discussion. Inet-access used be a good place for finding that type of information, but that list seems to be on life-support these days. Would it be appropriate for NANOG to start such a list? (NANOG Lite?) Would anyone bother subscribing/participating? Or are the available alternatives sufficient? Andrew Cruse
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:44:39 EDT, Martin Hannigan said: > > > I dont think that there's any issue at all to be honest. NANOG isn't > just for the clued. > > And more to the point - if somebody manages to go through all the hoops needed to ask a basic question on the NANOG list, it demonstrates a desire to accumulate clue - so we should encourage those people. I'll make the prediction that in 5 years, the person who *started* this thread will be substantially more clued than the lead network engineer at many AS's (you all know the ones I mean - that AS that's 1 or 2 hops away from you that on a weekly basis do something that makes you want to go and inject clue with a baseball bat..) pgpMQRVq1SJXD.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
I'll take that bet Valdis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:44:39 EDT, Martin Hannigan said: I dont think that there's any issue at all to be honest. NANOG isn't just for the clued. And more to the point - if somebody manages to go through all the hoops needed to ask a basic question on the NANOG list, it demonstrates a desire to accumulate clue - so we should encourage those people. I'll make the prediction that in 5 years, the person who *started* this thread will be substantially more clued than the lead network engineer at many AS's (you all know the ones I mean - that AS that's 1 or 2 hops away from you that on a weekly basis do something that makes you want to go and inject clue with a baseball bat..)
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:15:06 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > mailing list. Isn't this akin to posting to a profesional mathematics forum > asking for help with your Algebra? In 1943 he (Einstein) answered a little girl who had difficulties in school with mathematics. "Do not worry about your difficulties in Mathematics. I can assure you mine are still greater. Best regards Professor Albert Einstein." http://www.einstein-website.de/z_kids/letterskids.html pgphpkErfGgp3.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:15:06 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > >> mailing list. Isn't this akin to posting to a profesional >> mathematics forum asking for help with your Algebra? > > In 1943 he (Einstein) answered a little girl who had difficulties in > school with mathematics. > "Do not worry about your difficulties in Mathematics. I can assure > you mine are still greater. Best regards Professor Albert Einstein." > > http://www.einstein-website.de/z_kids/letterskids.html That's cute Valdis, but did the little girl and Einstein force thousands of people around the world to read their correspondence? I whole-heartily encourage and thank anyone willing to take the time to help the original poster. Off-list. Andrew
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 5:59 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That's cute Valdis, but did the little girl and Einstein force thousands of > people around the world to read their correspondence? Suggestion: Before creating list rule about appropriate level of expertise in questions, wait until volume of question traffic merits such. In my experience, easy questions sometimes even yield tips or discussion useful to experts. -- Ben
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
Can someone put this in a digest for me? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Barry Shein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: nanog@merit.edu Sent: Fri Mar 21 16:44:39 2008 Subject: Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Barry Shein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Is this for real? > > Someone asks a harmless question about setting up multiple default > routes, not about Barack Obama or whether the moon is made of green > cheese, but about default routes. > > Then 10 people decide to respond that this isn't appropriate for nanog. > > Then 25 people decide to dispute that. > > Then 50 people are arguing (ok maybe I exaggerate but just a little) > about it. > > So the person who asked the original question feels bad and apologizes. > > And 5 people decide to tell her there's nothing to apologize for. > > And 10 people dispute that...and...what next? Oh, right, and next I > feel an urge to write this idiotic meta-meta-meta-note. > > I think psychologists have a term for this, "chaotic instability > disorder" or something like that. > > Maybe what we need are NANOG GREETERS! > > Hello, welcome to Nanog, can we help you find something? Hello, > welcome to Nanog, can we help you find something?... Blue light special in slot 5? V6 only STM64's now half price! I dont think that there's any issue at all to be honest. NANOG isn't just for the clued. Best, Marty
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
At 04:20 AM 21/3/08, ann kok wrote: ls it possible to have 2 default routes? or how can I do the rebundant when the route is still working either eth1 or eth2 down? A google search for turns up lots of hints (mine included). There are some variations using lo0 so that the route is always available esp. in BSDs. Though this is NANOG, I'd guess that many subscribers are only familiar with using Cisco and Juniper boxen i.e. fully fledged routers, for multihoming at the edge. Some of us live at the edge, providing services and content using Alteon/F5/BSD We have often solved these issues WITHOUT using C or J (other than for upstream connections). Even with multi Gb connectivity, C & J are not essential !
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > And more to the point - if somebody manages to go through all the hoops > needed to ask a basic question on the NANOG list, it demonstrates a > desire to accumulate clue - so we should encourage those people. ... yes, please. (i've not given up on accumulating clue some day.) -- Paul Vixie
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008, Sena, Rich wrote: > Can someone put this in a digest for me? I will, once the shit settles. Adrian > > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Barry Shein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: nanog@merit.edu > Sent: Fri Mar 21 16:44:39 2008 > Subject: Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant > > > On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Barry Shein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Is this for real? > > > > Someone asks a harmless question about setting up multiple default > > routes, not about Barack Obama or whether the moon is made of green > > cheese, but about default routes. > > > > Then 10 people decide to respond that this isn't appropriate for > nanog. > > > > Then 25 people decide to dispute that. > > > > Then 50 people are arguing (ok maybe I exaggerate but just a little) > > about it. > > > > So the person who asked the original question feels bad and > apologizes. > > > > And 5 people decide to tell her there's nothing to apologize for. > > > > And 10 people dispute that...and...what next? Oh, right, and next I > > feel an urge to write this idiotic meta-meta-meta-note. > > > > I think psychologists have a term for this, "chaotic instability > > disorder" or something like that. > > > > Maybe what we need are NANOG GREETERS! > > > > Hello, welcome to Nanog, can we help you find something? Hello, > > welcome to Nanog, can we help you find something?... > > Blue light special in slot 5? V6 only STM64's now half price! > > > > I dont think that there's any issue at all to be honest. NANOG isn't > just for the clued. > > > > Best, > > Marty -- - Xenion - http://www.xenion.com.au/ - VPS Hosting - Commercial Squid Support - - $25/pm entry-level VPSes w/ capped bandwidth charges available in WA -
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.einstein-website.de/z_kids/letterskids.html That's cute Valdis, but did the little girl and Einstein force thousands of people around the world to read their correspondence? I whole-heartily encourage and thank anyone willing to take the time to help the original poster. Off-list. Andrew Strange. I subscribed to numerous mailing lists. My mail reader's search function has been most enlightening when someone shared the answer with the group, which is often experienced by others, clueful or not, and honestly, easier to search than most mailing list archives. It's disingenuous to not share the answer, as anyone searching the archives will find the question unanwered and thus insurmountable, or they'll find a polite followup or pointer, and the benefit happens without additional email traffic When did this become the debian support list anyway :-) Or should we simply point folks to http://www.routergod.com/ To whomever started the thread with an actual question, don't be scared off. We're more like gentoo users than the other guys. Here's a good general resource (I know there are better but some of my favorite links are lost in time, and encourage folks to share) http://www.private.org.il/tcpip_rl.html Hey nanog committee, there's an idea. How about an operator's wiki? http://www.nanog.org/isp.html looks a bit weak given the overall bundled IQ floating around these parts? (even an email submission link for good stuff might be a start.nanog-support seems too general for such) Best regards, andy
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
> Hey nanog committee, there's an idea. How about an operator's wiki? http://nanog.cluepon.net/ centralization is not a core feature of the internet :) randy
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
Thanks Randy, (seriously, I get questions such as those all the time) I was beginning to think NANOG was still stuck in the 2002 or something :-) You surely know the parable "the shoemakers kids are the last to get shoes" as my own 'lab' full of toys/stuff is the last to get upgraded and labeled. http://www.nanog.org/resources.html would be an ideal place to place a link to the wiki. (and yes, wiki.nanog.org might be a nice DNS addition). Best regards, and again, thanks for the pointer. andy Randy Bush wrote: Hey nanog committee, there's an idea. How about an operator's wiki? http://nanog.cluepon.net/ centralization is not a core feature of the internet :) randy
Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Inet-access used be a good place for finding that type of information, but that list seems to be on life-support these days. It's not dead yet! Ask a good question in inet-access and you will get a lot of answers, both on and off list. The reason the list isn't very active is that its former "support new ISPs" role is unfortunately dwindling as the telcos keep selling ISP services for less-than-wholesale and independent ISPs can't compete and fold or sell-out to the telcos. For anyone who wants to join this low volume (but bursty) list, see: http://inet-access.net/mailman/listinfo/list As to the original question, it would be useful to review the NANOG FAQ before posting, especially if one is new to the list. Among the many useful tidbits of information is this one: http://www.nanog.org/listfaq.html#routerconfig Q: How do I know if a router configuration question is on-topic or not? A: If your question is "how do I do on a router?", this question is best asked on one of the router-specific mailing lists below. If your question is "How do I get and 's implementations to work together?" then that question is on-topic for NANOG. Platform-specific lists include: Cisco routers http://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo cisco-nsp Juniper routers puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp Foundry routers http://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/foundry-nsp Riverstone routers http://www.nmops.org FreeBSD http://www.FreeBSD.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresources.html jc
