US Extradition rights (was Re: Spamhaus Exposed)
- Original Message - From: Dave Howe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Email List: nanog [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:53 AM Subject: Re: Spamhaus Exposed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, the US gov't is Satan going after innocent hackers in Wales? No, but the US government is apparently now allowed to arrest and extradite a child from the UK without having to show a judge good cause - which is *not* true in reverse, or for any other country. Up until recently, the US authorities would have had to make a case for extradition and/or arrest to a UK judge before the local plod would even be informed that there was an interest in the kid Yes, its a worrying development. No, it isn't particularly evil (just more evidence the american government thinks their laws should apply worldwide) or even marginally on-topic for Nanog. The Child you speak of caused destruction over a network, the same applied for the 2 hackers here who were sent over without even questioning the UK. If the US Government is Satan then I suppose I am going to hell, because I sure as hell support it. Josh Brady
Re: US Extradition rights (was Re: Spamhaus Exposed)
Joshua Brady wrote: The Child you speak of caused destruction over a network, the same applied for the 2 hackers here who were sent over without even questioning the UK. If the US Government is Satan then I suppose I am going to hell, because I sure as hell support it. Do you support the converse, where some little s*** hacks my London network from some random US college ? At the moment, I have no recourse of any kind and the UK authorities have no power, and as a consequence, no interest. Peter
RE: US Extradition rights (was Re: Spamhaus Exposed)
Joshua Brady wrote: The Child you speak of caused destruction over a network, the same applied for the 2 hackers here who were sent over without even questioning the UK. If the US Government is Satan then I suppose I am going to hell, because I sure as hell support it. Do you support the converse, where some little s*** hacks my London network from some random US college ? At the moment, I have no recourse of any kind and the UK authorities have no power, and as a consequence, no interest. Peter I would have to say yes. Globalization of trade and markets is dependant to some degree on a commonality of law. As you say, there's presently no reason a US firm couldn't destroy the network of a UK firm with whom it competes to get a competitive advantage. If spammers are any example, then there are people out there low enough to take advantage of such a loophole. It is probably reasonable to expect that every country will maintain its own speed limits and decency statues. I do believe that crimes against people and property should be prosecutable across international borders. Unfortunately, that is probably a utopian dream. Chris Proctor
RE: US Extradition rights (was Re: Spamhaus Exposed)
-Joshua Brady wrote: - The Child you speak of caused destruction over a network, the same - applied for the 2 hackers here who were sent over without even - questioning the UK. If the US Government is Satan then I -suppose I am - going to hell, because I sure as hell support it. - -Do you support the converse, where some little s*** hacks my -London network -from some random US college ? At the moment, I have no -recourse of any kind -and the UK authorities have no power, and as a consequence, -no interest. - -Peter The world is full of Attorneys.. And I bet you could find a nice one in the states to sue him.. Or report it to the FBI.. Http://www.fbi.gov US authorities had no ability to hand those hackers in Taiwan, so what did someone do? they contacted the Taiwan Gov't... Can you do that? J
Re: US Extradition rights (was Re: Spamhaus Exposed)
Joshua Brady wrote: The Child you speak of caused destruction over a network, the same applied for the 2 hackers here who were sent over without even questioning the UK. If the US Government is Satan then I suppose I am going to hell, because I sure as hell support it. Oh, so do I - I just think on general principles it really should require a judge in the serving country to rubberstamp it before the snatch and grab takes place - or more appropriately that the case be made to a UK judge, the child tried here and sentenced here. His actions were, after all, a criminal offence here too
Re: US Extradition rights (was Re: Spamhaus Exposed)
could this be taken offlist please? Dave Howe wrote: Joshua Brady wrote: The Child you speak of caused destruction over a network, the same applied for the 2 hackers here who were sent over without even questioning the UK. If the US Government is Satan then I suppose I am going to hell, because I sure as hell support it. Oh, so do I - I just think on general principles it really should require a judge in the serving country to rubberstamp it before the snatch and grab takes place - or more appropriately that the case be made to a UK judge, the child tried here and sentenced here. His actions were, after all, a criminal offence here too -- My Foundation verse: Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
Re: US Extradition rights (was Re: Spamhaus Exposed)
This entire fiasco needs to migrate off line, please -HenryWilliam Warren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: could this be taken offlist please?Dave Howe wrote: Joshua Brady wrote: The "Child" you speak of caused destruction over a network, the sameapplied for the 2 hackers here who were sent over without evenquestioning the UK. If the US Government is Satan then I suppose I amgoing to hell, because I sure as hell support it. Oh, so do I - I just think on general principles it really should require a judge in the serving country to rubberstamp it before the snatch and grab takes place - or more appropriately that the case be made to a UK judge, the child tried here and sentenced here. His actions were, after all, a criminal offence here too -- My "Foundation" verse:Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
Re: US Extradition rights (was Re: Spamhaus Exposed)
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Dave Howe wrote: Oh, so do I - I just think on general principles it really should require a judge in the serving country to rubberstamp it before the snatch and grab takes place - or more appropriately that the case be made to a UK judge, the child tried here and sentenced here. His actions were, after all, a criminal offence here too My expierience with getting the UK law enforcement to deal with cybercrimes has been less then stellar. Handing them logs of a kid taking down large networks (Including an entire smaller country one day), complete with evidence from the networks being hit, and him bragging he did it resulted in them picking him up and releasing him the next day. They never charged him with anything and basically told him to not do it again.. Kinda sucks.. Jason -- Jason Slagle - CCNP - CCDP /\ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign . X - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail . / \ - NO Word docs in e-mail .
