Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, Seth Mattinen wrote: That's an exact opposite of silly from the OP's request; my corporate account works just fine. Well, your corporate account seems to involve less silly (exchange/lotus notes) than most. -- Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se
Re: Finding content in your job title
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 11:14:52PM -0400, Steve Bertrand wrote: Hi all, This is perhaps a rather silly question, but one that I'd like to have answered. I'm young in the game, and over the years I've imagined numerous job titles that should go on my business card. They went from cool, to high-priority, to plain unimaginable. Now, after 10 years, I reflect back on what I've done, and what I do now. To me, if a business is loose-knit with no clear job descriptions or titles (ie. too small to have CXO etc), I feel that a business card should reflect what one feels is the primary job responsibility, or what they do the most (or love the most). For instance, I like to present myself as a 'network engineer'. I have never taken formal education, don't hold any certifications (well, since 2001), and can't necessarily prove my worth. How does the ops community feel about using this designation? Is it intrusive or offensive to those who hold real engineering degrees? I'm content with 'network manager', given that I still do perform (in my sleep) numerous system tasks and have to sometimes deal with front-line helpdesk stuff. Instead of acting like I'm trying to sell myself out, I'll leave out what I actually do and ask those who sig themselves with 'network engineer' what they do day-to-day to acquire that title, and if they feel comfortable with having it. Steve I solve that problem this way: 1 set of Business cards with Senior System Architect, an arbitary title the company gave me at some point 1 set of Business cards with Senior Monkey for almost everything -- Regards, Ulf. - Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 You can find my resume at: http://www.Alameda.net/~ulf/resume.html
Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010, Steve Bertrand wrote: On 2010.03.30 23:42, Andrew D Kirch wrote: I am proposing that the NANOG administration drop everything originating from commonly used webmail providers, I oppose this proposal. There are very legitimate (and legal) reasons why people may want to post to an operational list, using an address that can not tie them to the location or business that they are posting from. This list does not see much spam (or at least I don't). That said, let the list maintainers decide. I would much prefer if EVERYBODY used freebie email accounts as opposed to their corporate ones, as this would make it more likely that they would quote correctly and we would get less silly legal disclaimers and out of office messages. Personally, I don't give a fsck about corporate tags and/or legal notifications. My girl is a Federally certified Health and Safety Officer and works within the Nuclear industry. Each email she sends me that crosses her corporate Domino server contains about eight lines of non-72-width crap which usually translates into twice the length of the actual message. Although she _can_ use my personal (or external, ie. freebie) email services to relay out email from within her company, it likely isn't something that she should be doing (although their internal IT policy doesn't outright prohibit it...yet, or else I'd be the first to scream at her). The disclaimers, although annoying, to me are acceptable. Some enterprise have strict guidelines on email/communication use. I would sooner see the disclaimers as opposed to not have those valuable people not post at all. I don't use my work account for any mailing lists because it's totally useless for that purpose. I also will participate in these mailing lists regardless of my employer, thus I never understood why someone would want to post from their corporate accounts. I feel that in many cases that there are very good reasons for posting from such. Aside from the fact that some people post to ops/eng/rir/tech etc lists from their corporate email address because of internal policy, in many cases, I'd think that it makes sense that many postings to lists are for work purposes directly. Almost all of mine are. Whether I send from ste...@eagle.ca (my work email addr), st...@ibctech.ca or st...@ipv6canada.com shouldn't matter. I recognize your name Mikael, not your email address. Regardless, disclaimers and legal fluff are easily discarded when replying ;) Steve
Re: Useful URL for network operators
Stefan Fouant (sfouant) writes: I second this. I want this guy gone. (The frog, not Larry) Hey now, I don't like this guys tactics either, but frog??? ;) Some foregone conclusion about the Gaullic origins of said timewasting individual. Cheers, Philippe Jacques Bernard Regnauld
RE: Finding content in your job title
-Original Message- From: Steve Bertrand [mailto:st...@ibctech.ca] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:15 PM To: nanog@nanog.org nanog list Subject: Finding content in your job title How does the ops community feel about using this designation? Is it intrusive or offensive to those who hold real engineering degrees? I'm content with 'network manager', given that I still do perform (in my sleep) numerous system tasks and have to sometimes deal with front-line helpdesk stuff. I don't think it matters so much what you call yourself, but what job role are you filling in the corporate org chart? You might not be a degreed engineer but if you are serving as the company's Network Engineer then that is what you are. I would say that would go as long as the title is on a company business card and not a personal card. I would say that I would use the term engineer on a personal card only if I were an engineer in my field of practice by certification or degree. In a company, though, my title is the role I fill within the organization. I tend to prefer the architect designation mainly because it describes what I really do. I design the network, specify the equipment, get it all running, and am then happy to turn over the day to day operation to someone else provided there is a someone else to do it. My title within my organization is Senior Network Engineer but I personally see my role as Senior Network Architect and is what I would put on a personal card and is how I self identify. George
DNSSEC and Firewalls (was Re: IPv4 ANYCAST setup)
On Mon, 29 Mar 2010, Kevin Oberman wrote: Fix your security officers! I have talked to multiple security officers (who are generally not really knowledgeable on networks) who had 53/tcp blocked and none have yet agreed to change it. The last one told me that blocking 53/tcp is standard industry practice as per his firewall training. Point out what RFCs said simply bounced off of him. He said that if the protocols would not handle blocked 53/tcp, the protocols would have to be changed. Opening the port was simply not open to discussion. They don't seen to really care if things are broken and seem to feel that it is up to the network to accommodate their idea of normal firewall configuration. I will say that these were at federal government facilities. I hope the commercial world is a bit more in touch with reality. If you are with a US Federal agency having problems like this, or any other issues with your DNSSEC deployment, please include them in the DNSSEC survey every US Federal executive agency has been tasked to submit by the Office of Management and Budget. http://iase.disa.mil/stigs/stig/dns_stig_v4r1_20071017.pdf If, for example, an organization placed an authoritative server in its DMZ but limited zone transfers to servers behind the firewall, then it could allow inbound and outbound UDP 53 to and from the DMZ name server to allow queries, but deny TCP 53 in both directions to prohibit zone transfers. This configuration, however, is strongly discouraged because it may prevent legitimate DNS transactions that involve large responses (e.g., a DNSSEC signature). In general, limitations on queries, zone updates and transfers should be implemented in the name server's configuration rather than through configuration of firewalls, routers, or other communications devices.
Re: Finding content in your job title
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 3:14 AM, Steve Bertrand st...@ibctech.ca wrote: Hi all, This is perhaps a rather silly question, but one that I'd like to have answered. I'm young in the game, and over the years I've imagined numerous job titles that should go on my business card. They went from cool, to high-priority, to plain unimaginable. My approach is not to put job title on the business cards. There's no need. :)
Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts
Paul Ferguson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 9:00 PM, jim deleskie deles...@gmail.com wrote: I'm betting more then a few of use free mail accts to keep this separate from our work mail. If your really having that much issue, config your mail server to drop it yourself or unsub Seriously -jim yes posted from gmail acct. Ditto. - - ferg +1 (posting from gmail account) jc
Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 11:42:46PM -0400, Andrew D Kirch wrote: I am proposing that the NANOG administration drop everything originating from commonly used webmail providers [...] Bad idea. While free webmail providers are prodigious sources of abuse, they're not prodigious sources of abuse that makes it through to this list -- thanks to what I'm presuming is prudent configuration of the MTA and Mailman instance involved in running it. Additionally, some folks find that directing bulk, non-personal traffic like mailing lists to free webmail accounts makes it easier for them to participate. (And as noted by others, it does seem to free us from the meaningless, unenforceable, threatening disclaimers imposed by some of the more clueless companies out there.) If using those accounts facilitates the participation of people who can contribute to the community, then I see no reason at present to put up barriers to that. ---Rsk
Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts
Currently there are 3556 post's from nanog in this mailist account, I use this 1, of ten sub-accounts that I have with this provider to focus clearly on Nanog related issues. It is not free. I do however prefer that the professionals stay away from irc or facebook cutsy pie names, it is also good if you show those names like fergie does his, it is part of the network tradition and in good spirit. -henry From: JC Dill jcdill.li...@gmail.com To: nanog@nanog.org nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wed, March 31, 2010 12:04:32 AM Subject: Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts Paul Ferguson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 9:00 PM, jim deleskie deles...@gmail.com wrote: I'm betting more then a few of use free mail accts to keep this separate from our work mail. If your really having that much issue, config your mail server to drop it yourself or unsub Seriously -jim yes posted from gmail acct. Ditto. - - ferg +1 (posting from gmail account) jc
Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts
I'm betting more then a few of use free mail accts to keep this separate from our work mail. If your really having that much issue, config your mail server to drop it yourself or unsub Seriously -jim yes posted from gmail acct. Ditto. - - ferg +1 (posting from gmail account) +2 (also from gmail) free anti spam, no need for antivirus, free storage, spam don't go to my official address, don't have to make backups, can read from anywhere, mostly used for email lists. The problem is the source not what service he/she uses, trolls will be trolls regardless of what freebie fqdn they use. Jorge
Re: [Fwd: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] RIPE NCC Position On The ITU IPv6 Group]
That's odd. I was invited, by the US, but I'd scheduled CORE's technical meeting in Dortmund the following week, and there is only so much away time I can schedule while my wife is a 1L at Cornell Law, so I sent my regrets. The utility of going, as part of the US ISP delegation, and being excluded from even observing, seems odd. Anyway, the point of my question is how much clue is available when and where policy is made, visibly in the neighborhood of zero through ICANN's (and this is not drcs' fault, far from it) vehicle for ISP participation in policy making. So what is it in the ITU playpen? The value appears to be in the same range. I could be completely mistaken, hence the question. The short form of my contribution to the issues discussion is that iso3166 in the IANA root solved a scaling problem (epoch==Jon Postel), but left stateless peoples waiting for DNS Godot. A CIR model has the same issue for v6 allocation, leaving the same peoples waiting for a single v6 block Godot. Agreement is not mandatory. Eric On 3/30/10 8:15 PM, David Conrad wrote: Well, actually, ICANN was in Geneva specifically for the meeting, but we weren't allowed into the room. Quite annoying, actually. Regards, -drc On Mar 30, 2010, at 2:05 PM, Richard Barnes wrote: There were a few representatives of the Internet community at the meeting. All five RIRs were represented, as was ISOC. The notable absence was ICANN. Of course, this sample is by no means representative of the entire community, but it's more than None. On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Martin Hannigan mar...@theicelandguy.com wrote: None. On 3/11/10, Eric Brunner-Williams brun...@nic-naa.net wrote: What NANOG contributors, if any, are invited by a government, to join their national delegation to the initial meeting of the ITU's IPv6 Group in Geneva next week? -- Sent from my mobile device Martin Hannigan mar...@theicelandguy.com p: +16178216079 Power, Network, and Costs Consulting for Iceland Datacenters and Occupants
Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts
We are not allowed to post from work email accounts to lists such as these as well. The CISO's reasoning (and he may have a point...) is that we might ask the list Hey...I can't figure out why my Cisco $MODEL router is doing this when I upgrade to $VERSION of IOS. Then someone trolling to hack you knows you have one of them in your network running that version of code. It still may be easy enough to extrapolate where you work from your personal email using other publicly available methods but On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 4:49 AM, Jorge Amodio jmamo...@gmail.com wrote: I'm betting more then a few of use free mail accts to keep this separate from our work mail. If your really having that much issue, config your mail server to drop it yourself or unsub Seriously -jim yes posted from gmail acct. Ditto. - - ferg +1 (posting from gmail account) +2 (also from gmail) free anti spam, no need for antivirus, free storage, spam don't go to my official address, don't have to make backups, can read from anywhere, mostly used for email lists. The problem is the source not what service he/she uses, trolls will be trolls regardless of what freebie fqdn they use. Jorge
Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts
jim deleskie deles...@gmail.com writes: Hi, I'm betting more then a few of use free mail accts to keep this separate from our work mail. As a positive side effect there are fewer Out of Office replies when people use different accounts for normal work mail and mailing lists. If your really having that much issue, config your mail server to drop it yourself or unsub Or use a decent mail client which allows scoring and / or kill files. cheers, Jens -- - | Foelderichstr. 40 | 13595 Berlin, Germany| +49-151-18721264 | | http://blog.quux.de | jabber: jensl...@guug.de | --- | -
RE: Finding content in your job title
From: Steve Bertrand [mailto:st...@ibctech.ca] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:15 PM Subject: Finding content in your job title For instance, I like to present myself as a 'network engineer'. I have never taken formal education, don't hold any certifications (well, since 2001), and can't necessarily prove my worth. How does the ops community feel about using this designation? Is it intrusive or offensive to those who hold real engineering degrees? I'm Instead of acting like I'm trying to sell myself out, I'll leave out what I actually do and ask those who sig themselves with 'network engineer' what they do day-to-day to acquire that title, and if they feel comfortable with having it. I have Senior Network Engineer as my title. I have an undergraduate degree in networked communications and management. When working some days or on some projects, like when I'm laying out a whole new datacenter for $EMPLOYER, I feel that I'm filling the role admirably. Other days, when I'm simply pushing paper or stamping license plates (small, repetitive tasks of little import) I don't feel that I really deserve the title. But then, if I had my druthers, I'd put Chief Bit-mover on my business card (the CIO's secretary put the kabash on when I tried it, citing something about executives not much liking it when non-officers put Chief anything on their cards... ;) ) -JFO
Re: Finding content in your job title
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 01:19:26 -0400 Joe jbfixu...@gmail.com wrote: short the last business card I handed out simply had the title MIS Dept. Its Heh. Reminds me of the place I worked where the least knowledgeable, least experienced and least liked person was put in charge of MIS. If anyone had actually liked the guy they would have explained why signing all his emails as MIS Manager was a bad idea. Too funny. -- D'Arcy J.M. Cain da...@druid.net | Democracy is three wolves http://www.druid.net/darcy/| and a sheep voting on +1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082)(eNTP) | what's for dinner.
Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 07:41:18AM +0200, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: I would much prefer if EVERYBODY used freebie email accounts as opposed to their corporate ones, as this would make it more likely that they would quote correctly and we would get less silly legal disclaimers and out of office messages. What's your opinion (if any) about free-mail accounts listed for ARIN/APNIC/RIPE/LACNIC/AFRINIC/KRNIC/TWNIC (RIR) contacts? -- Henry Yen Aegis Information Systems, Inc. Senior Systems Programmer Hicksville, New York
Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts
+1 On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:00 AM, jim deleskie deles...@gmail.com wrote: I'm betting more then a few of use free mail accts to keep this separate from our work mail. If your really having that much issue, config your mail server to drop it yourself or unsub Seriously -jim yes posted from gmail acct. On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:42 AM, Andrew D Kirch trel...@trelane.net wrote: Is there anyone here who is legitimate using a freebie webmail account? I am proposing that the NANOG administration drop everything originating from commonly used webmail providers, and add further RHS filters as additional providers are identified as problems. Andrew
Re: Finding content in your job title
This is perhaps a rather silly question, but one that I'd like to have answered. I'm young in the game, and over the years I've imagined numerous job titles that should go on my business card. They went from cool, to high-priority, to plain unimaginable. Now, after 10 years, I reflect back on what I've done, and what I do now. To me, if a business is loose-knit with no clear job descriptions or titles (ie. too small to have CXO etc), I feel that a business card should reflect what one feels is the primary job responsibility, or what they do the most (or love the most). For instance, I like to present myself as a 'network engineer'. I have never taken formal education, don't hold any certifications (well, since 2001), and can't necessarily prove my worth. How does the ops community feel about using this designation? Is it intrusive or offensive to those who hold real engineering degrees? I'm content with 'network manager', given that I still do perform (in my sleep) numerous system tasks and have to sometimes deal with front-line helpdesk stuff. Instead of acting like I'm trying to sell myself out, I'll leave out what I actually do and ask those who sig themselves with 'network engineer' what they do day-to-day to acquire that title, and if they feel comfortable with having it. When the University I worked for went all touchy-feely and told us to pick titles for ourselves I wanted to use Savant. They wouldn't let me, so I tried Jack Of All Trades. Vetoed. So I just stayed with the cards I had that said Associate Director for Telecommunications and Computers. Which is about as void of meaning then and now as anything I have ever heard of. I actually held the title Super Security Engineer at my previous company according to my business cards. Now that I think of it, I need new business cards, any ideas? :)
Time for a lounge mailing list
It's been clear for a very long time that the NANOG crowd likes to socialize. At NANOGs, social settings are where connections are made, beers consumed, sometimes scuba dives shared or other local attractions explored. It is certainly a good thing, and fosters much useful discussion among peers who become friends. That said, the nanog@nanog.org mailing list often is overrun with non-operational discussion. Certainly there are some good examples today, such as job titles, or arguing about the best way to rid the list of a troll. Creation of a second mailing list to handle non-operational, social traffic for the nanog crowd would be one way to keep the main list on topic. Might even boost productivity, as folks could more easily defer reading and responding to the non-operational stuff until their off-hours. So how about it? lou...@nanog.org? offto...@nanog.org?
Re: Finding content in your job title
In a message written on Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 11:14:52PM -0400, Steve Bertrand wrote: Now, after 10 years, I reflect back on what I've done, and what I do now. To me, if a business is loose-knit with no clear job descriptions or titles (ie. too small to have CXO etc), I feel that a business card should reflect what one feels is the primary job responsibility, or what they do the most (or love the most). A /business card/ should reflect how you want those outside of your company to classify you. For instance, you may be Head Coder, Operations Manager, and Chief Kitchen Cleaner, but when you go to Nanog you hand out cards that say Peering Coordinator because you want people to know to e-mail you for peering. Having them know you are Chief Kitchen Cleaner is of no value. This is also why many people have more than one set of business cards. The NANOG Peering Coordinator may be the IETF Protocol Architect. This is also different from your offical title, that is what appears on your HR paperwork. That is relevant to your resume/cv, because if someone calls to check and see if you really were CTO, it's HR who is going to say yes or no. How does the ops community feel about using this designation? Is it intrusive or offensive to those who hold real engineering degrees? I'm content with 'network manager', given that I still do perform (in my sleep) numerous system tasks and have to sometimes deal with front-line helpdesk stuff. Engineer by it self doesn't imply certification to me. Those with Engineering certifications are typically a P.E., which just like M.D. or PhD mean something specific. Civil Engineer implies nothing to me, Bob Smith, P.E. does. Thus I am ok with someone calling themselves a Network Engineer. You can then also be Bob Smith, CCIE or Bob Smith, JNCIE if you feel you need to be certified in some way. -- Leo Bicknell - bickn...@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ pgpHlQuTkIgSg.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Finding content in your job title
In article r2i877585b01003310746z930ef004w54e76adc3ca3...@mail.gmail.com, Michael Dillon wavetos...@googlemail.com writes Be careful where you get the examples to model yourself upon. For instance, you are in Canada and I think it is actually illegal to call yourself and engineer unless you are licenced. And as far as I know there is no licencing available for network engineers. Licenced by the Canadian authorities? Here in the UK we have Institutes, such as IEEE, where membership can convey some authenticity to the title of 'Chartered Engineer'. But anyone can be a normal engineer (even people like me with a Masters in Engineering, but never bothered to apply to IEEE). -- Roland Perry
RE: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts
My employer has an unwritten policy that says we're free to post what we want where we want as long as we do not make it obvious who our employer is. I.E. don't post from the company email accounts. I use both personal domains and freebie accounts to comply with this request. Richey -Original Message- From: Mikael Abrahamsson [mailto:swm...@swm.pp.se] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 2:01 AM To: Seth Mattinen Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, Seth Mattinen wrote: That's an exact opposite of silly from the OP's request; my corporate account works just fine. Well, your corporate account seems to involve less silly (exchange/lotus notes) than most. -- Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se
Re: Finding content in your job title
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:14:52 EDT, Steve Bertrand said: For instance, I like to present myself as a 'network engineer'. I have never taken formal education, don't hold any certifications (well, since 2001), and can't necessarily prove my worth. Our payroll system was overhauled a few years ago, and it now claims I'm an IT Spec III, but provides for an alternate working title. I couldn't get Utility Infielder on my business card, so I kept the business cards that still say Computer Systems Senior Engineer. I don't go through cards very fast. ;) One of my cohorts prefers the term Mutagen. :) I've had the occasional whinge from pedants that complain that 'Engineer' is a controlled term and the state should take action on my use of it, and I point out to them (a) not in my field, yet, and (b) it was the Commonwealth of Virginia that *gave* me the title so they should feel free to take it up with the guys in Richmond. pgpqrMJIG0yX9.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Finding content in your job title
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, Steve Bertrand wrote: I'm young in the game, and over the years I've imagined numerous job titles that should go on my business card. They went from cool, to high-priority, to plain unimaginable. Now, after 10 years, I reflect back on what I've done, and what I do now. To me, if a business is loose-knit with no clear job descriptions or titles (ie. too small to have CXO etc), I feel that a business card should reflect what one feels is the primary job responsibility, or what they do the most (or love the most). Smaller shops might be more willing to let people choose their own titles for their business cards. A friend presented himself as Lord of the Underworld when he ran his own company. At my previous job, the title on my business card was either network engineer or senior network engineer, and that was pretty accurate, in the sense that most people here would probably agree that the network engineer is a pretty vague title that covers many different responsibilities. Bigger companies often put a framework of job classifications and titles in place to simplify HR/administrative items like salary ranges and reporting structures. I currently work at a larger organization where my business card says network analyst even though I work in the network engineering group, and my job classification is systems programmer IV even though I don't do any systems programming. I don't consider writing the occasional shell/perl/python script to be systems programming :) For instance, I like to present myself as a 'network engineer'. I have never taken formal education, don't hold any certifications (well, since 2001), and can't necessarily prove my worth. I don't hold any certs at the moment either, but I can prove my worth to an organization through my work experience and business knowledge. The are certs worth it horse has been pretty well beaten to death several times here and on other forums. How does the ops community feel about using this designation? Is it intrusive or offensive to those who hold real engineering degrees? I'm content with 'network manager', given that I still do perform (in my sleep) numerous system tasks and have to sometimes deal with front-line helpdesk stuff. Engineering implies different things to different people. I don't worry about offending a degreed engineer any more than I worry about offending someone who drives a train. I had a boss at a previous job herd all of the systems and network engineers in the conference room and give us the YOU ARE NOT ENGINEERS BECAUSE YOU DO NOT HAVE AN ENGINEERING DEGREE browbeating after some sort of an outage. He didn't last very long :) jms
Re: Time for a lounge mailing list
On Mar 31, 2010, at 11:46 AM, Daniel Senie wrote: It's been clear for a very long time that the NANOG crowd likes to socialize. At NANOGs, social settings are where connections are made, beers consumed, sometimes scuba dives shared or other local attractions explored. It is certainly a good thing, and fosters much useful discussion among peers who become friends. That said, the nanog@nanog.org mailing list often is overrun with non-operational discussion. Certainly there are some good examples today, such as job titles, or arguing about the best way to rid the list of a troll. Creation of a second mailing list to handle non-operational, social traffic for the nanog crowd would be one way to keep the main list on topic. Might even boost productivity, as folks could more easily defer reading and responding to the non-operational stuff until their off-hours. So how about it? lou...@nanog.org? offto...@nanog.org? The IETF has found an attendees list useful. Marshall
Re: Finding content in your job title
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 10:34:58PM -0500, Jorge Amodio wrote: Ok, let see. In several countries the use of the title engineer applies to people that achieved a certain technical degree, I'm not sure that applies uniformly but in Latin America using the engineer title without having achieved that degree is illegal. when i worked for LSUC, the equivilent of a state bar association, i think, i was asked to dream up a new title for my role, and asked for Network Architect. it was rejected for the reason that it bestowes upon you a professional designation for which you are not qualified. i think my title ended up being Systems and Network Engineering Manager. -- Jim Mercerj...@reptiles.org+92 336 520-4504 I'm Prime Minister of Canada, I live here and I'm going to take a leak. - Lester Pearson in 1967, during a meeting between himself and President Lyndon Johnson, whose Secret Service detail had taken over Pearson's cottage retreat. At one point, a Johnson guard asked Pearson, Who are you and where are you going?
RE: Time for a lounge mailing list
I'm sending this to the proper request email. This is a decent idea that I support. NANOG Crew please read the below email and consider establishing a separate socializing email address so operational topics only exist on the current email list. Cheers Marla Azinger -Original Message- From: Daniel Senie [mailto:d...@senie.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:47 AM To: NANOG list Subject: Time for a lounge mailing list It's been clear for a very long time that the NANOG crowd likes to socialize. At NANOGs, social settings are where connections are made, beers consumed, sometimes scuba dives shared or other local attractions explored. It is certainly a good thing, and fosters much useful discussion among peers who become friends. That said, the nanog@nanog.org mailing list often is overrun with non-operational discussion. Certainly there are some good examples today, such as job titles, or arguing about the best way to rid the list of a troll. Creation of a second mailing list to handle non-operational, social traffic for the nanog crowd would be one way to keep the main list on topic. Might even boost productivity, as folks could more easily defer reading and responding to the non-operational stuff until their off-hours. So how about it? lou...@nanog.org? offto...@nanog.org?
Re: Time for a lounge mailing list
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:46:34 EDT, Daniel Senie said: So how about it? lou...@nanog.org? offto...@nanog.org? sn...@nanog.org. ;) pgpQQZAcCyeD4.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts
Until somebody does 'view headers' and sees /X/-/Sender/-/IP / and oh look, it was sent from 'foobarco' ;-) FAIL -- Leigh On 31/03/10 16:55, Richey wrote: My employer has an unwritten policy that says we're free to post what we want where we want as long as we do not make it obvious who our employer is. I.E. don't post from the company email accounts. I use both personal domains and freebie accounts to comply with this request. Richey -Original Message- From: Mikael Abrahamsson [mailto:swm...@swm.pp.se] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 2:01 AM To: Seth Mattinen Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, Seth Mattinen wrote: That's an exact opposite of silly from the OP's request; my corporate account works just fine. Well, your corporate account seems to involve less silly (exchange/lotus notes) than most.
Re: Time for a lounge mailing list
nanog-c...@nanog.org? On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Azinger, Marla marla.azin...@frontiercorp.com wrote: I'm sending this to the proper request email. This is a decent idea that I support. NANOG Crew please read the below email and consider establishing a separate socializing email address so operational topics only exist on the current email list. Cheers Marla Azinger -Original Message- From: Daniel Senie [mailto:d...@senie.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:47 AM To: NANOG list Subject: Time for a lounge mailing list It's been clear for a very long time that the NANOG crowd likes to socialize. At NANOGs, social settings are where connections are made, beers consumed, sometimes scuba dives shared or other local attractions explored. It is certainly a good thing, and fosters much useful discussion among peers who become friends. That said, the nanog@nanog.org mailing list often is overrun with non-operational discussion. Certainly there are some good examples today, such as job titles, or arguing about the best way to rid the list of a troll. Creation of a second mailing list to handle non-operational, social traffic for the nanog crowd would be one way to keep the main list on topic. Might even boost productivity, as folks could more easily defer reading and responding to the non-operational stuff until their off-hours. So how about it? lou...@nanog.org? offto...@nanog.org? -- Brandon Galbraith Voice: 630.492.0464
Re: Finding content in your job title
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:12:46 -0400 Jim Mercer j...@reptiles.org wrote: i think my title ended up being Systems and Network Engineering Manager. So you were the SANE Manager? -- D'Arcy J.M. Cain da...@druid.net | Democracy is three wolves http://www.druid.net/darcy/| and a sheep voting on +1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082)(eNTP) | what's for dinner.
Re: Time for a lounge mailing list
lounge is good - off topic seems to say that *no* operational content will be discussed, whereas with lounge we can simply move long threads most people don't care about over there (ie: trolling, TDM, etc) -Jack Carrozzo On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Brandon Galbraith brandon.galbra...@gmail.com wrote: nanog-c...@nanog.org? On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Azinger, Marla marla.azin...@frontiercorp.com wrote: I'm sending this to the proper request email. This is a decent idea that I support. NANOG Crew please read the below email and consider establishing a separate socializing email address so operational topics only exist on the current email list. Cheers Marla Azinger -Original Message- From: Daniel Senie [mailto:d...@senie.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:47 AM To: NANOG list Subject: Time for a lounge mailing list It's been clear for a very long time that the NANOG crowd likes to socialize. At NANOGs, social settings are where connections are made, beers consumed, sometimes scuba dives shared or other local attractions explored. It is certainly a good thing, and fosters much useful discussion among peers who become friends. That said, the nanog@nanog.org mailing list often is overrun with non-operational discussion. Certainly there are some good examples today, such as job titles, or arguing about the best way to rid the list of a troll. Creation of a second mailing list to handle non-operational, social traffic for the nanog crowd would be one way to keep the main list on topic. Might even boost productivity, as folks could more easily defer reading and responding to the non-operational stuff until their off-hours. So how about it? lou...@nanog.org? offto...@nanog.org? -- Brandon Galbraith Voice: 630.492.0464
Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts
I also use a freebie webmail account for nanog mail. I would be opposed to this. Tom On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 8:42 PM, Andrew D Kirch trel...@trelane.net wrote: Is there anyone here who is legitimate using a freebie webmail account? I am proposing that the NANOG administration drop everything originating from commonly used webmail providers, and add further RHS filters as additional providers are identified as problems. Andrew
Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts
on the other hand, such a move would trim a huge number of list members, which might refocus the list to North America. --bill On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 09:25:56AM -0700, Tom Hutton wrote: I also use a freebie webmail account for nanog mail. I would be opposed to this. Tom On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 8:42 PM, Andrew D Kirch trel...@trelane.net wrote: Is there anyone here who is legitimate using a freebie webmail account? I am proposing that the NANOG administration drop everything originating from commonly used webmail providers, and add further RHS filters as additional providers are identified as problems. Andrew
Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts
On Wed, March 31, 2010 12:14 pm, Leigh Porter wrote: Until somebody does 'view headers' and sees /X/-/Sender/-/IP / and oh look, it was sent from 'foobarco' ;-) That depends on how they are sending it, of course. Webmail usually just has the IP of the host, and I imagine quite a few others around here have their own personal servers that could also be used for this, one way or another. Then of course there are things like Blackberries and iPhones that can send email themselves, and are likely to have IP addresses that are linked to something besides their current location. Daniel T. Staal --- This email copyright the author. Unless otherwise noted, you are expressly allowed to retransmit, quote, or otherwise use the contents for non-commercial purposes. This copyright will expire 5 years after the author's death, or in 30 years, whichever is longer, unless such a period is in excess of local copyright law. ---
Re: Time for a lounge mailing list
Everyone- this conversation should take place at nanog-futu...@nanog.org. That list is for meta-discussions like this. Thanks! Kris On Mar 31, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Jack Carrozzo wrote: lounge is good - off topic seems to say that *no* operational content will be discussed, whereas with lounge we can simply move long threads most people don't care about over there (ie: trolling, TDM, etc) -Jack Carrozzo On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Brandon Galbraith brandon.galbra...@gmail.com wrote: nanog-c...@nanog.org? On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Azinger, Marla marla.azin...@frontiercorp.com wrote: I'm sending this to the proper request email. This is a decent idea that I support. NANOG Crew please read the below email and consider establishing a separate socializing email address so operational topics only exist on the current email list. Cheers Marla Azinger -Original Message- From: Daniel Senie [mailto:d...@senie.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:47 AM To: NANOG list Subject: Time for a lounge mailing list It's been clear for a very long time that the NANOG crowd likes to socialize. At NANOGs, social settings are where connections are made, beers consumed, sometimes scuba dives shared or other local attractions explored. It is certainly a good thing, and fosters much useful discussion among peers who become friends. That said, the nanog@nanog.org mailing list often is overrun with non-operational discussion. Certainly there are some good examples today, such as job titles, or arguing about the best way to rid the list of a troll. Creation of a second mailing list to handle non-operational, social traffic for the nanog crowd would be one way to keep the main list on topic. Might even boost productivity, as folks could more easily defer reading and responding to the non-operational stuff until their off-hours. So how about it? lou...@nanog.org? offto...@nanog.org? -- Brandon Galbraith Voice: 630.492.0464
Re: [Fwd: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] RIPE NCC Position On The ITU IPv6 Group]
Why isn't this on YouTube? j On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 8:15 PM, David Conrad d...@virtualized.org wrote: Well, actually, ICANN was in Geneva specifically for the meeting, but we weren't allowed into the room. Quite annoying, actually. Regards, -drc -- --- Joly MacFie 917 442 8665 Skype:punkcast WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com ---
Re: Time for a lounge mailing list
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010, Michael Dillon wrote: Then we can just remind people to take the non technical discussions to the social networking site. I find that mailing lists flow much better than the discussions on social networking sites. The tools available to manage messages on forums and social networking sites are typically very primitive. There's a reason that the lions's share of technical discussions occur on mailing lists and over IRC (esp in the OSS world). nanog-chat or nanog-lounge lists sound great to me. Cheers, Rob -- Email: rob...@timetraveller.org IRC: Solver Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world
Re: Finding content in your job title
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: I've had the occasional whinge from pedants that complain that 'Engineer' is a controlled term and the state should take action on my use of it, and I point out to them (a) not in my field, yet, and (b) it was the Commonwealth of Virginia that *gave* me the title so they should feel free to take it up with the guys in Richmond. Good point. A title assigned by a government agency is probably most appropriate. Cheers, George Person of Interest
Re: Time for a lounge mailing list
On 3/31/2010 11:50, kris foster wrote: Everyone- this conversation should take place at nanog-futu...@nanog.org. That list is for meta-discussions like this. The irony is overwhelming.
Re: Time for a lounge mailing list
Interesting idea. Then we'll start posting at nanog that there must be some operational problem because nobody is posting on the other list. Jorge
Re: Finding content in your job title
Perhaps the appropriate approach if the title is internet related is to call for a BoF at IETF, setup a WG to work on a standards titles draft, get it published as an RFC, vest the authority on IANA and start a PDP at ICANN to determine who can obtain and ware the title and how much has to pay for it. Now thinking it through, this may be something we can ask the ITU to do instead of trying to get into the internet standards and non-governance of the internet, I'm sure they will probably after a couple of years will come out with the pink book of titles recommendations that will be uniformly accepted and implemented around the world including developing countries. Need a beer Jorge On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:32 PM, George Imburgia na...@armorfirewall.com wrote: On Wed, 31 Mar 2010, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: I've had the occasional whinge from pedants that complain that 'Engineer' is a controlled term and the state should take action on my use of it, and I point out to them (a) not in my field, yet, and (b) it was the Commonwealth of Virginia that *gave* me the title so they should feel free to take it up with the guys in Richmond. Good point. A title assigned by a government agency is probably most appropriate. Cheers, George Person of Interest
Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts
On Mar 31, 2010, at 12:43 PM, Daniel Staal wrote: On Wed, March 31, 2010 12:14 pm, Leigh Porter wrote: Until somebody does 'view headers' and sees /X/-/Sender/-/IP / and oh look, it was sent from 'foobarco' ;-) That depends on how they are sending it, of course. Webmail usually just has the IP of the host, and I imagine quite a few others around here have their own personal servers that could also be used for this, one way or another. GMail doesn't even add that header, so you don't have to worry where you are browsing from. cue thread about Google's arrogance that they know better how to stop spam than anyone else; cue thread about Google's complete inability to stop spam even close to as well as many others; cue thread about Google's hypocrisy about adding X-Sender-IP on IMAP injected mail, but not through web mail; cue thread about people talking about e-mail / spam on NANOG; cue thread about moving the whole thing to nanog-futures; cue thread about -- TTFN, patrick Then of course there are things like Blackberries and iPhones that can send email themselves, and are likely to have IP addresses that are linked to something besides their current location. Daniel T. Staal --- This email copyright the author. Unless otherwise noted, you are expressly allowed to retransmit, quote, or otherwise use the contents for non-commercial purposes. This copyright will expire 5 years after the author's death, or in 30 years, whichever is longer, unless such a period is in excess of local copyright law. ---
Re: Time for a lounge mailing list
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010, Jorge Amodio wrote: Interesting idea. Then we'll start posting at nanog that there must be some operational problem because nobody is posting on the other list. -lounge and -chat lists are common in many technical organisations I'm a member of. They are generally used the way they are intended to be used. Tech types tend to be a lot better than an average person at following list rules, in my experience. Cheers, Rob -- Email: rob...@timetraveller.org IRC: Solver Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world
Re: Time for a lounge mailing list
I support the creation of a lounge list as well. Often times people posit ideas or concepts on the NANOG list that may not directly fall under the requirements of the list. A lounge type list would be a great catch-all and could take some of the perceived off-topic discussion to another list. In that case, if you don't like the volume of non NANOG business you can just unsubscribe. It cleans up this list and I feel it would probably strengthen this community as bit as well. Just my $.02 -- Paul H Bosworth GCFW, CCNP, CCIP, CCDP
Re: Time for a lounge mailing list
Am 31.03.10 18:14 schrieb valdis.kletni...@vt.edu: On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:46:34 EDT, Daniel Senie said: So how about it? lou...@nanog.org? offto...@nanog.org? sn...@nanog.org. ;) nanog-...@nanog.org - sec like in secret, and then make it mediocre operators only. Seriously, +1 - keep^W let this one become operational again. SCNR, .m signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/2010/prod_033110.html Does anybody know what are the plans for IPv6 support ? Regards Jorge
Re: [Fwd: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] RIPE NCC Position On The ITU IPv6 Group]
On Mar 31, 2010, at 6:52 AM, Joly MacFie wrote: On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 8:15 PM, David Conrad d...@virtualized.org wrote: Well, actually, ICANN was in Geneva specifically for the meeting, but we weren't allowed into the room. Quite annoying, actually. Why isn't this on YouTube? You'd have to ask the ITU secretariat. I'd note that they do audiocast meetings such as this, however you have to have a TIES account to gain access to it. Not sure how one would go about getting a TIES account. Regards, -drc
Re: [Fwd: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] RIPE NCC Position On The ITU IPv6 Group]
I'm talking the ITU refusing ICANN entrance at the door.. On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 3:18 PM, David Conrad d...@virtualized.org wrote: On Mar 31, 2010, at 6:52 AM, Joly MacFie wrote: On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 8:15 PM, David Conrad d...@virtualized.org wrote: Well, actually, ICANN was in Geneva specifically for the meeting, but we weren't allowed into the room. Quite annoying, actually. Why isn't this on YouTube? You'd have to ask the ITU secretariat. I'd note that they do audiocast meetings such as this, however you have to have a TIES account to gain access to it. Not sure how one would go about getting a TIES account. Regards, -drc -- --- Joly MacFie 917 442 8665 Skype:punkcast WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com ---
Re: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
On 03/31/2010 12:00 PM, Jorge Amodio wrote: http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/2010/prod_033110.html Does anybody know what are the plans for IPv6 support ? the current wrt610n supports ipv6 I failed to see why a slightly updated and rebranded one would not as well. Regards Jorge
RE: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
I reached out to the inside sales of Linksys just as recently as last week, and they wrote me back: We did a little further research to see how we were currently roadmapping RFC3633 and it looks like we have no current router models that will be coming out over the next couple quarters that support it on the consumer side of the house. and later: We will keep tabs with the BU on support and will let you know if we hear anything coming up on the roadmap. Frank -Original Message- From: Jorge Amodio [mailto:jmamo...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 2:01 PM To: NANOG Subject: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ? http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/2010/prod_033110.html Does anybody know what are the plans for IPv6 support ? Regards Jorge
RE: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
I checked the documentation for two models (Linux model and highest-end non-Linux model), and there's no mention of IPv6. Frank -Original Message- From: Nick Hilliard [mailto:n...@foobar.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 3:16 PM To: Joel Jaeggli Cc: NANOG Subject: Re: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ? On 31/03/2010 21:07, Joel Jaeggli wrote: the current wrt610n supports ipv6 I failed to see why a slightly updated and rebranded one would not as well. because for low-end CPE devices like this, a tiny change in the model number (e.g. v1-v2) might mean a completely different internal system, with different host CPU, different ethernet controller, etc. You're not in any way guaranteed the same sort of software compatibility when moving from one device version to another, particularly for less well supported features like ipv6. Nick
Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts
on the other hand, such a move would trim a huge number of list members, which might refocus the list to North America. http://archive.psg.com/bug-feature.jpg
Re: Finding content in your job title
if it was not so long, and if jp biz processes were not so confusing to clueless gaijin, i would ask for just another bozo on this bus randy
Re: [Fwd: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] RIPE NCC Position On The ITU IPv6 Group]
Joly, It is just another 501(c)(3) incorporated in California. Just as the ITU is just another treaty organization. The basis for cooperation has to be mutual interest, not mere assertion of presence, and getting to maybe after a long, and not very cooperative history, isn't necessarily YouTube material. FWIW, CORE was formed at the ITU, and nominally our relationship with the ITU is slightly less awful than ... any other lobbyist or actor in the room when Asst. Sec. Gomez was introduced to the community last Winter. At least, I said so and no one bothered to point out that I was either wrong or an idiot. Both those things could yet happen. Eric
Re: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
I checked the documentation for two models (Linux model and highest-end non-Linux model), and there's no mention of IPv6. If this is a strictly hardware discussion, v6 works on a variety of models, albeit not with stock firmware. To wit : http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/IPv6 This suggests that Cisco (et.al.) can release an official firmware image to support v6 on existing devices whenever they're sufficiently motivated to do so. I'd wager the only reason it hasn't been made GA is to limit the number of pass-the-buck support calls that start at $isp and get bounced back saying we don't support that yet, call whoever makes your router. My $0.02. Cheers, Michael Holstein Cleveland State University
Re: Finding content in your job title
Steve Bertrand st...@ibctech.ca writes: For instance, I like to present myself as a 'network engineer'. I have never taken formal education, don't hold any certifications (well, since 2001), and can't necessarily prove my worth. Hey, network engineer is good. Some time back someone gave me the title senior executioner security engineer. They even send a document to a customer with this title. Jens -- - | Foelderichstr. 40 | 13595 Berlin, Germany| +49-151-18721264 | | http://blog.quux.de | jabber: jensl...@guug.de | --- | -
Re: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
It's not in the wrt610n docs either yet the code was unambiguously in the box, complete with 6to4 that your couldn't shut off. On 03/31/2010 01:26 PM, Frank Bulk - iName.com wrote: I checked the documentation for two models (Linux model and highest-end non-Linux model), and there's no mention of IPv6. Frank -Original Message- From: Nick Hilliard [mailto:n...@foobar.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 3:16 PM To: Joel Jaeggli Cc: NANOG Subject: Re: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ? On 31/03/2010 21:07, Joel Jaeggli wrote: the current wrt610n supports ipv6 I failed to see why a slightly updated and rebranded one would not as well. because for low-end CPE devices like this, a tiny change in the model number (e.g. v1-v2) might mean a completely different internal system, with different host CPU, different ethernet controller, etc. You're not in any way guaranteed the same sort of software compatibility when moving from one device version to another, particularly for less well supported features like ipv6. Nick
RE: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
I confirmed with Linksys' PR person that there is no IPv6 -- if someone sees different, please let us know. Frank -Original Message- From: Joel Jaeggli [mailto:joe...@bogus.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 4:30 PM To: frnk...@iname.com Cc: 'Nick Hilliard'; NANOG Subject: Re: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ? It's not in the wrt610n docs either yet the code was unambiguously in the box, complete with 6to4 that your couldn't shut off. On 03/31/2010 01:26 PM, Frank Bulk - iName.com wrote: I checked the documentation for two models (Linux model and highest-end non-Linux model), and there's no mention of IPv6. Frank -Original Message- From: Nick Hilliard [mailto:n...@foobar.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 3:16 PM To: Joel Jaeggli Cc: NANOG Subject: Re: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ? On 31/03/2010 21:07, Joel Jaeggli wrote: the current wrt610n supports ipv6 I failed to see why a slightly updated and rebranded one would not as well. because for low-end CPE devices like this, a tiny change in the model number (e.g. v1-v2) might mean a completely different internal system, with different host CPU, different ethernet controller, etc. You're not in any way guaranteed the same sort of software compatibility when moving from one device version to another, particularly for less well supported features like ipv6. Nick
Re: Finding content in your job title
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 31/03/2010 08:32, Andrew Mulholland wrote: On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 3:14 AM, Steve Bertrand st...@ibctech.ca wrote: I'm young in the game, and over the years I've imagined numerous job titles that should go on my business card. They went from cool, to high-priority, to plain unimaginable. My approach is not to put job title on the business cards. Totally agree. After my employer started changing their mind over whether we are programmers, analysts, officers, etc, I just dropped the title from the card. By the time I'm handing the card out, the recipient already knows my status. - -- Oliver Gorwits, Network and Telecommunications Group, Oxford University Computing Services -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkuzxkkACgkQ2NPq7pwWBt4DkACfW5XU4l/bS1wfE/CmoZoL1We2 YgoAoLLPKvYjxfLMYNU2vICzDxef6Emp =7fL+ -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
On 31/03/2010 22:30, Joel Jaeggli wrote: It's not in the wrt610n docs either yet the code was unambiguously in the box, complete with 6to4 that your couldn't shut off. I have heard that if you visit the hidden /system.asp web page on those devices and unclick the Vista Premium button, that this shuts down 6to4. Don't have one of the boxes myself, so I can't test it. I don't know whether to congratulate or feel sorry for Remco van Mook for discovering this. On 31/03/2010 22:51, Frank Bulk - iName.com wrote: I confirmed with Linksys' PR person that there is no IPv6 -- if someone sees different, please let us know. Wouldn't be the first time that a PR person's opinion did not intersect with reality - although it may well be the first time in recorded history that a PR person undersold a product. http://www.google.com/search?q=wrt610n+ipv6+%2Bsite%3A.linksys.com Nick
Re: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:53:37 -0400, Michael Holstein michael.holst...@csuohio.edu wrote: If this is a strictly hardware discussion, v6 works on a variety of models, albeit not with stock firmware. ... This suggests that Cisco (et.al.) can release an official firmware image to support v6 on existing devices whenever they're sufficiently motivated to do so. Yes and no. Many of the uber-cheap models simply don't have the processing power or memory to do IPv6 well. (Some would say they don't do IPv4 well. I'm one of them.) Pure here's-a-packet-here's-where-it-goes switching can be done in almost any model as long as the v6 stack doesn't make the image too large to fit in the 4K rom. Doing anything remotely complicated, like tunneling and stateful firewalling, makes the image much too large and eats way too much ram. (This is also way many of the cheap models do not run linux and generally cannot run a usable linux image.) On the more expensive, higher end models, yes, they can run rather complex IPv4/6 stacks quite well. However, the bottom is that there is simply little to no consumer demand for IPv6 support -- esp. in North America (read: US) where most of these things are sold. --Ricky
Re: Finding content in your job title
Finding content in my job title... hmm maybe I can change mine to 'Gopher'. (Go-pher, Go Fer, as in Going For, to get, fetch...) Speak to me in 'engineer-ese' : (functionality) : I interpret and 'go for' the hardware that fills the requirement. Come to think of it maybe that's a good name for a corporation; Gopher IT. (Ducks back down hole avoiding various projectiles) ~.~ Best regards, Larry E. Stites Critical Asset Manager Northern California Networks, Inc. (Gopher IT, Inc?) .. on 3/30/10 8:14 PM, Steve Bertrand wrote: Hi all, This is perhaps a rather silly question, but one that I'd like to have answered. I'm young in the game, and over the years I've imagined numerous job titles that should go on my business card. They went from cool, to high-priority, to plain unimaginable. Now, after 10 years, I reflect back on what I've done, and what I do now. To me, if a business is loose-knit with no clear job descriptions or titles (ie. too small to have CXO etc), I feel that a business card should reflect what one feels is the primary job responsibility, or what they do the most (or love the most). For instance, I like to present myself as a 'network engineer'. I have never taken formal education, don't hold any certifications (well, since 2001), and can't necessarily prove my worth. How does the ops community feel about using this designation? Is it intrusive or offensive to those who hold real engineering degrees? I'm content with 'network manager', given that I still do perform (in my sleep) numerous system tasks and have to sometimes deal with front-line helpdesk stuff. Instead of acting like I'm trying to sell myself out, I'll leave out what I actually do and ask those who sig themselves with 'network engineer' what they do day-to-day to acquire that title, and if they feel comfortable with having it. Steve ~.~ Best regards, Larry E. Stites Acquisitions and Sales Northern California Networks, Inc. CA LIC#04 SR KH 100-484111 Nevada City, Calif. 95959 cell 530 320 4194 ~ land 530 265 2588
Re: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
On 03/31/2010 03:07 PM, Ricky Beam wrote: Yes and no. Many of the uber-cheap models simply don't have the processing power or memory to do IPv6 well. (Some would say they don't do IPv4 well. I'm one of them.) Pure here's-a-packet-here's-where-it-goes switching can be done in almost any model as long as the v6 stack doesn't make the image too large to fit in the 4K rom. Doing anything remotely complicated, like tunneling and stateful firewalling, makes the image much too large and eats way too much ram. (This is also way many of the cheap models do not run linux and generally cannot run a usable linux image.) On the more expensive, higher end models, yes, they can run rather complex IPv4/6 stacks quite well. I *seriously* doubt that in this day and age. The basic problem is with Linksys' business model which is to farm out the engineering to whomever can produce it cheapest. They provide the spec and if it ain't in the specs, it ain't in the product. You can expect *no* continuity between one product and the next; there ain't an IOS or even codebase. However, the bottom is that there is simply little to no consumer demand for IPv6 support -- esp. in North America (read: US) where most of these things are sold. Yes, of course, except for that making a self-fulfilling prophecy. Mike, who's been bitten one too many times
Home CPE choice
Hopefully this e-mail is considered operational content :) The recent thread on the new linkys kit and ipv6 support got me thinking about CPE choice. What good off the shelf solutions are out there? Should one buy the high end d-link/linksys/netgear products? I've had bad experiences with those (netgear in particular). Should one get a real cisco router? The 877 or something? Maybe an ASA or the new small business targeted ISR (can't recall the model number off hand right now). There is mikrotik but I'm not so sure about the operating system. Is there a market for a new breed of CPE running OpenWRT or pfsense on hardware with enough CPU/RAM to not fall over? Granted that won't cost $79.00 at best buy. However it seems to me that decent CPE is going to run a couple hundred dollars in order to have sufficient ram/cpu. My current home router is a cisco 1841. I keep my 6mbps DSL line pretty much saturated all the time. Often times my wife will be watching Hulu in the living room, I'll be streaming music and running torrents (granted I have tuned my Azures client fairly well) all at the same time and it's a good experience. Running that kind of traffic load through my linksys would cause it to need a reboot once or more a day. What are folks here running in SOHO environments that doesn't require too frequent oil changes :)
RE: Home CPE choice
I have a small HP dummy terminal I installed a CFIDE card in with m0n0wall that has run beautifully for the past 3 years. Barely has any power draw and cost me a whopping $100 after shipping. I keep a few of the dummy terminals around in case this one dies (it's about 6 years old and came from a heavy-use banking application). Joe
Re: Home CPE choice
On 3/31/2010 6:55 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: Hopefully this e-mail is considered operational content :) The recent thread on the new linkys kit and ipv6 support got me thinking about CPE choice. What good off the shelf solutions are out there? Should one buy the high end d-link/linksys/netgear products? I've had bad experiences with those (netgear in particular). Should one get a real cisco router? The 877 or something? Maybe an ASA or the new small business targeted ISR (can't recall the model number off hand right now). There is mikrotik but I'm not so sure about the operating system. Is there a market for a new breed of CPE running OpenWRT or pfsense on hardware with enough CPU/RAM to not fall over? Granted that won't cost $79.00 at best buy. However it seems to me that decent CPE is going to run a couple hundred dollars in order to have sufficient ram/cpu. My current home router is a cisco 1841. I keep my 6mbps DSL line pretty much saturated all the time. Often times my wife will be watching Hulu in the living room, I'll be streaming music and running torrents (granted I have tuned my Azures client fairly well) all at the same time and it's a good experience. Running that kind of traffic load through my linksys would cause it to need a reboot once or more a day. What are folks here running in SOHO environments that doesn't require too frequent oil changes :) I run Astaro on a p-4 celey i had lying around. Get far more than any little router you'll see..can't beat the price.
Re: Home CPE choice
Hopefully this e-mail is considered operational content :) The recent thread on the new linkys kit and ipv6 support got me thinking about CPE choice. What good off the shelf solutions are out there? Should one buy the high end d-link/linksys/netgear products? I've had bad experiences with those (netgear in particular). Should one get a real cisco router? The 877 or something? Maybe an ASA or the new small business targeted ISR (can't recall the model number off hand right now). There is mikrotik but I'm not so sure about the operating system. Is there a market for a new breed of CPE running OpenWRT or pfsense on hardware with enough CPU/RAM to not fall over? Granted that won't cost $79.00 at best buy. However it seems to me that decent CPE is going to run a couple hundred dollars in order to have sufficient ram/cpu. My current home router is a cisco 1841. I keep my 6mbps DSL line pretty much saturated all the time. Often times my wife will be watching Hulu in the living room, I'll be streaming music and running torrents (granted I have tuned my Azures client fairly well) all at the same time and it's a good experience. Running that kind of traffic load through my linksys would cause it to need a reboot once or more a day. What are folks here running in SOHO environments that doesn't require too frequent oil changes :) I run FreeBSD on a PIII; I can easily saturate my 15mbit cable connection without it breaking a sweat. I also have a couple Cisco 2610's, one of which is my ipv6 tunnel endpoint. -M
Re: Home CPE choice
Juniper's SSG5 and SRX100 are nice options for home. I've enjoyed an SSG5 for awhile now. SRX100 for junos. SSG5's pop up on ebay occasionally for a few $100. -Iain On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Marty Anstey marty.ans...@sunwave.netwrote: Hopefully this e-mail is considered operational content :) The recent thread on the new linkys kit and ipv6 support got me thinking about CPE choice. What good off the shelf solutions are out there? Should one buy the high end d-link/linksys/netgear products? I've had bad experiences with those (netgear in particular). Should one get a real cisco router? The 877 or something? Maybe an ASA or the new small business targeted ISR (can't recall the model number off hand right now). There is mikrotik but I'm not so sure about the operating system. Is there a market for a new breed of CPE running OpenWRT or pfsense on hardware with enough CPU/RAM to not fall over? Granted that won't cost $79.00 at best buy. However it seems to me that decent CPE is going to run a couple hundred dollars in order to have sufficient ram/cpu. My current home router is a cisco 1841. I keep my 6mbps DSL line pretty much saturated all the time. Often times my wife will be watching Hulu in the living room, I'll be streaming music and running torrents (granted I have tuned my Azures client fairly well) all at the same time and it's a good experience. Running that kind of traffic load through my linksys would cause it to need a reboot once or more a day. What are folks here running in SOHO environments that doesn't require too frequent oil changes :) I run FreeBSD on a PIII; I can easily saturate my 15mbit cable connection without it breaking a sweat. I also have a couple Cisco 2610's, one of which is my ipv6 tunnel endpoint. -M -- -- - Iain Morris iain.t.mor...@gmail.com
RE: Home CPE choice
I'm running IPcop on a mini ITX machine (old processor out of my laptop T5500), a cheapo stick of memory and a sata to CF adaptor with a 4gb CF card. All in all cost me about $350. Been running IPcop's for about 6 years now on various hardware going back to a dual p3 500 with 256mb of ram and no complaints aside from ipv6 support which is slated for the 2.x branch. I have a 50/10 cable line which I have kept saturated for multiple days at a time, 5 public IP's about 60 firewall rules and 3 network interfaces (LAN, WAN and guest wireless). I migrated from a PPPOE dsl provider to cable about a year and a half ago. Also physically moved about that time and never powered off the device, or had any issues whatsoever. The UI is a bit weird, but once you set it up you never touch it. 17:16:19 up 568 days, 19:36, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 -Original Message- From: Charles N Wyble [mailto:char...@knownelement.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 4:56 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Home CPE choice Hopefully this e-mail is considered operational content :) The recent thread on the new linkys kit and ipv6 support got me thinking about CPE choice. What good off the shelf solutions are out there? Should one buy the high end d-link/linksys/netgear products? I've had bad experiences with those (netgear in particular). Should one get a real cisco router? The 877 or something? Maybe an ASA or the new small business targeted ISR (can't recall the model number off hand right now). There is mikrotik but I'm not so sure about the operating system. Is there a market for a new breed of CPE running OpenWRT or pfsense on hardware with enough CPU/RAM to not fall over? Granted that won't cost $79.00 at best buy. However it seems to me that decent CPE is going to run a couple hundred dollars in order to have sufficient ram/cpu. My current home router is a cisco 1841. I keep my 6mbps DSL line pretty much saturated all the time. Often times my wife will be watching Hulu in the living room, I'll be streaming music and running torrents (granted I have tuned my Azures client fairly well) all at the same time and it's a good experience. Running that kind of traffic load through my linksys would cause it to need a reboot once or more a day. What are folks here running in SOHO environments that doesn't require too frequent oil changes :)
Re: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
Yes and no. Many of the uber-cheap models simply don't have the processing power or memory to do IPv6 well. (Some would say they don't do IPv4 well. I'm one of them.) Pure here's-a-packet-here's-where-it-goes switching can be done in almost any model as long as the v6 stack doesn't make the image too large to fit in the 4K rom. Flashback to 1989... In 2003, Dallas Semiconductor tried to implement IPv6 on an 8051 microcontroller. They started with an IPv4 stack and modified as needed but soon discovered that it was easiest to just implement a dual stack that handled all the addresses internally as 128 bit quantities regardless of whether or not they were v6 or v4. It worked and they did it in 64k of ROM. This was written up at the time, and no doubt influenced many other implementors of v6 in non-UNIX embedded systems. By the way, the 8051 was introduced by Intel back in 1980. It was loosely related on the 8080 which powered many CP/M based computers in the 80's that typically had 64K of RAM On the more expensive, higher end models, yes, they can run rather complex IPv4/6 stacks quite well. These so-called expensive models are the majority of the cable modem and DSL market in the USA, often running Linux which has supported IPv6 for a decade. However, the bottom is that there is simply little to no consumer demand for IPv6 support -- esp. in North America (read: US) where most of these things are sold. In fact, consumer demand for IPv6 is close to 100%. Consumers just want their Internet access to work trouble free and are not interested in hearing excuses like ARIN ran out of IP addresses or, We can't add any more connections to our network because it is full. IPv6 lets you keep on offering full Internet access and keep on growing the network so that when a customer moves across town, you can connect them up in their new home. --Michael Dillon
Re: Home CPE choice
What good off the shelf solutions are out there? Should one buy the high end d-link/linksys/netgear products? I've had bad experiences with those (netgear in particular). Should one get a real cisco router? IMHO, you should look to Japan, Korea and China for suppliers. Even if you are small, you may be pleasantly surprised at the response from a Chinese manufacturer. If you specify a box with Linux-based firmware, then the manufacturer has low design costs, and can ammortise them across many customers because that Linux build can be used again and again. The easiest way to spec it is to find an existing DSL CPE that is based around Linux and ask them how much to make noname boxes for you so that you can put your own sticker on. Better yet, form a buying club with folks that you meet at the next NANOG BOF and you are certain to get decent responses. Is there a market for a new breed of CPE running OpenWRT or pfsense on hardware with enough CPU/RAM to not fall over? Such CPE has been available for years which is why OpenWRT was created in the first place. I believe OpenWRT has limited DSL drivers? Granted that won't cost $79.00 at best buy. However it seems to me that decent CPE is going to run a couple hundred dollars in order to have sufficient ram/cpu. Ignore BestBuy prices. You don't know their margin and it WILL vary product to product. With a bit of web searching I found a 5 yr old device, Netcomm NB5 ADSL modem/router that runs Linux and retails for $99 Australian. What are folks here running in SOHO environments that doesn't require too frequent oil changes :) Ignore what people tell you. Go talk to Chinese manufacturers and explain what you need. You are doing them a favor by providing free market data to them so that they begin to understand that there is an ISP market that wants DSL routers that are Linux based, flexible, support IPv6, and can be branded by the ISP. Fact is, that all those name brand boxes at BestBuy also come from Chinese manufacturers anyway. The brand name companies are middlemen that provide specs, some design work, and checking manufacturing quality. The only tricky part of the equation is manufacturing quality, but why not copy the ISP pioneers of the 1990s. They did not do extensive trials and evaluations of routers and switches. Instead, they found out what the early entrants were using and bought the same stuff. So do some digging to find out what Chinese factories are building kit for Billionton, Netgear and all the rest. --Michael Dillon
Re: Home CPE choice
On 31/03/2010 23:55, Charles N Wyble wrote: What good off the shelf solutions are out there? Should one buy the high end d-link/linksys/netgear products? I've had bad experiences with those (netgear in particular). Some people have said that the Fritz!box is quite good. No idea if it's approved for use in the US. Nick
Re: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
On 01/04/2010 00:40, Michael Dillon wrote: In fact, consumer demand for IPv6 is close to 100%. Michael, I think you fat-fingered 0%. Just to be clear, I'm talking about the real world here. Nick
Re: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
Linksys Live Chat claims neither the new Valet, nor the new E-Series supports IPv6. I do not have high confidence in the accuracy of the answer. Owen On Mar 31, 2010, at 1:07 PM, Joel Jaeggli wrote: On 03/31/2010 12:00 PM, Jorge Amodio wrote: http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/2010/prod_033110.html Does anybody know what are the plans for IPv6 support ? the current wrt610n supports ipv6 I failed to see why a slightly updated and rebranded one would not as well. Regards Jorge
Re: [Fwd: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] RIPE NCC Position On The ITU IPv6 Group]
On Mar 31, 2010, at 12:18 PM, David Conrad wrote: On Mar 31, 2010, at 6:52 AM, Joly MacFie wrote: On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 8:15 PM, David Conrad d...@virtualized.org wrote: Well, actually, ICANN was in Geneva specifically for the meeting, but we weren't allowed into the room. Quite annoying, actually. Why isn't this on YouTube? You'd have to ask the ITU secretariat. I'd note that they do audiocast meetings such as this, however you have to have a TIES account to gain access to it. Not sure how one would go about getting a TIES account. Regards, -drc $20,000/year to the ITU secretariat to become a sector member. Owen
Re: Home CPE choice
On 03/31/2010 05:04 PM, Nick Hilliard wrote: On 31/03/2010 23:55, Charles N Wyble wrote: Some people have said that the Fritz!box is quite good. No idea if it's approved for use in the US. Nick, Thanks for posting this. I wasn't aware of this product. It looks pretty cool.
Re: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
On 1 April 2010 00:05, Nick Hilliard n...@foobar.org wrote: On 01/04/2010 00:40, Michael Dillon wrote: In fact, consumer demand for IPv6 is close to 100%. Michael, I think you fat-fingered 0%. Just to be clear, I'm talking about the real world here. I did not fat finger anything. In the real world, nearly 100% of consumers demand IPv6 from their ISP. But consumers are not techies so they don't talk that way with acronyms and technical gobbledygook version numbers. In plain English they tell us that they want the Internet access service to just plain work. They want it to work all the time, including tomorrow and if they move across town, or to another city, they want to order a move from the ISP, and have it done in a few days. ISPs who don't have IPv6 will soon be unable to provide access to all Internet sites, as content providers begin to bring IPv6 sites onstream. And ISPs without IPv6 will not be able to continue growing their networks, even for something as trivial as an existing customer who moves to a different PoP. The approaching time is going to be a crisis for the ISP industry, and the press will tar some ISPs in a very bad light if they can't smoothly introduce IPv6. There will be bargain basement sellouts and happy MA departments at ISPs with foresight who got their IPv6 capability ready early. It's now like the calm before the storm. We know that a battle is coming and we know roughly where and when it will be fought. Reports from the field indicate that all is quiet, but that is normal just before the battle commences. The wise general will not be put off by these reports of peace and quiet, but will prepare his forces and keep an eye on the preparations of his adversaries. --Michael Dillon
Re: Finding content in your job title
Larry Sheldon wrote: So I just stayed with the cards I had that said Associate Director for Telecommunications and Computers. That's nice, so you can call yourself a Director ;-) What's up with the overuse of the term President in job titles, Vice President of Engineering, Product Management... often these people appear to not have any real corporate presidential powers... Maybe it's because receptionists and secretaries are now called office managers and so the managers feel their title has become inflated. I agree with the misuse of the term Engineer in IT. I think it should only be used for the official protected title of civil engineer. Which I believe is a very respectable job. Sad but true, in IT too many people have some form of engineer in their job title but are almost totally clueless. Which is about as void of meaning then and now as anything I have ever heard of. What happened to titles such as programmer (or code monkey if your prefer, maybe a PC issue?), network administrator, systems administrator, systems analyst, information analyst? Greetings, Jeroen
Re: Home CPE choice
On 03/31/2010 04:03 PM, Jack Carrozzo wrote: Given a marked lack of $significant funding for home routing, I rock BSD boxen all over. Cool. I'm looking at pfsense to replace my cisco. I want to move the router to my lab for CCIE studies. Have you tried pfsense, or do you find the built in functionality/configuration system to be sufficient? I've only used bsd in an end user setting. The more I read, the more it seems that for software routing BSD is a better packet pusher. At one point we had several doing OSPF in my apartment (because we could) Oh yeah. I hear that. :) but I moved and am now behind a single Sun Netra ($30) with BSD, natd, and iptables. Works beautifully. Iptables on bsd? Not pf? Interesting. I'm pretty familiar with Iptables myself and have been wanting to pickup pf. Can you dive into why you went with iptables instead of pf? Was it familiarity or functionality or...? If you're only interested in real routing hardware, I'd probably go with the low-end cisco SOHO stuff, or if you still have a 2600 sitting around and only roll DSL, that will work nicely. Right. I have a 2600 in my lab.
Re: Home CPE choice
On 03/31/2010 04:03 PM, Joe Johnson wrote: I have a small HP dummy terminal I installed a CFIDE card in with m0n0wall that has run beautifully for the past 3 years. No moving parts I take it? I think I've played with m0n0wall in the past. Barely has any power draw and cost me a whopping $100 after shipping. Very nice. I keep a few of the dummy terminals around in case this one dies (it's about 6 years old and came from a heavy-use banking application). There you go.
Re: [Fwd: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] RIPE NCC Position On The ITU IPv6 Group]
Actually, it's 31,800 CHF == 30,170 USD. Plus, you have to get the approval of your local government even to submit an application. http://www.itu.int/members/sectmem/Form.pdf On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Owen DeLong o...@delong.com wrote: On Mar 31, 2010, at 12:18 PM, David Conrad wrote: On Mar 31, 2010, at 6:52 AM, Joly MacFie wrote: On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 8:15 PM, David Conrad d...@virtualized.org wrote: Well, actually, ICANN was in Geneva specifically for the meeting, but we weren't allowed into the room. Quite annoying, actually. Why isn't this on YouTube? You'd have to ask the ITU secretariat. I'd note that they do audiocast meetings such as this, however you have to have a TIES account to gain access to it. Not sure how one would go about getting a TIES account. Regards, -drc $20,000/year to the ITU secretariat to become a sector member. Owen
Re: Home CPE choice
On 03/31/2010 04:07 PM, William Warren wrote: I run Astaro on a p-4 celey i had lying around. Get far more than any little router you'll see..can't beat the price. Astaro looks cool. I hadn't heard of it before. Thanks for sharing.
Re: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Michael Dillon wavetos...@googlemail.com wrote: I did not fat finger anything. In the real world, nearly 100% of consumers demand IPv6 from their ISP. ... Hah. No. No they don't. They want, as you point out, access to the internet, which they are currently getting JUST FINE. And this will continue to be the case for a LONG TIME. ISPs who don't have IPv6 will soon be unable to provide access to all Internet sites, as content providers begin to bring IPv6 sites onstream. I've been hearing this BS for over a decade, and yet I've not heard a single complaint or run into a single site I could not access for lack of IPv6. Yes, there are IPv6 only sites, but I don't use them, nor do any of the people I know. What little IPv6 I have used I have had to go out of my way to *intentionally* use IPv6 over v4. Until there are common sites that are only accessible via IPv6 -- thus unavailable to unevolved ISP customers, ISP won't be investing anything in IPv6 deployment. That's not to say ISPs aren't experimenting with it -- some are, simply that they are not putting any heavy engineering resources behind it. The approaching time... Right now, that snail is on the other side of the world -- almost literally. Unless someone glues a rocket to it's shell, it won't even be on the horizon for years. If it were up to me, you, or the rest of the list, we'd rather simply get the mess over and switch everything tomorrow. *heh* But that ain't gonna happen. (I still have gear in use that only does IPX. thankfully, I've escaped Appletalk, but IPX is still clinging to life.) --Ricky
Re: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
I'm a real life user, I know the difference and I could careless about v6. most anything I want I is on v4 and will still be there long after ( when ever it is) we run out of v4 addresses. If I'm on a content provider and I'm putting something new online I want everyone to see, they will find away for all of us with v4 and credit cards to see it, and not be so worried about developing countries or the sub 5% of people in developed countries for now. I'm sure @ some point v6 will see the business need, but while I'm expect to have to deploy it for marketing reasons, I hope its someone else's problem but its a must have for real business. On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Ricky Beam jfb...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Michael Dillon wavetos...@googlemail.com wrote: I did not fat finger anything. In the real world, nearly 100% of consumers demand IPv6 from their ISP. ... Hah. No. No they don't. They want, as you point out, access to the internet, which they are currently getting JUST FINE. And this will continue to be the case for a LONG TIME. ISPs who don't have IPv6 will soon be unable to provide access to all Internet sites, as content providers begin to bring IPv6 sites onstream. I've been hearing this BS for over a decade, and yet I've not heard a single complaint or run into a single site I could not access for lack of IPv6. Yes, there are IPv6 only sites, but I don't use them, nor do any of the people I know. What little IPv6 I have used I have had to go out of my way to *intentionally* use IPv6 over v4. Until there are common sites that are only accessible via IPv6 -- thus unavailable to unevolved ISP customers, ISP won't be investing anything in IPv6 deployment. That's not to say ISPs aren't experimenting with it -- some are, simply that they are not putting any heavy engineering resources behind it. The approaching time... Right now, that snail is on the other side of the world -- almost literally. Unless someone glues a rocket to it's shell, it won't even be on the horizon for years. If it were up to me, you, or the rest of the list, we'd rather simply get the mess over and switch everything tomorrow. *heh* But that ain't gonna happen. (I still have gear in use that only does IPX. thankfully, I've escaped Appletalk, but IPX is still clinging to life.) --Ricky
Re: Finding content in your job title
I agree with the misuse of the term Engineer in IT. I think it should only be used for the official protected title of civil engineer. Which I believe is a very respectable job. Sad but true, in IT too many people have some form of engineer in their job title but are almost totally clueless. [ X-Operational_Content = 0 ] Can't resist. When I read your message it brought back to my memory a nice guy that used to work for me eons ago, very clever, smart and hands-on, he had a Bachelor's Degree in Psychology. One day, we had some sort of outage and I found him in the computer room sitting in front of one of the racks with some routing gear, I still have that image in my memory he looked like he was doing some sort of group therapy with the routers, I couldn't resist and told him Hey Joey, Freud won't help you, get your butt off of the chair and follow the default procedure, power cycle the damn beast. There were also several folks with various degrees in Physics, experts on blowing up stuff. Again, IMHO, in this field a title may help or may provide others a relative idea where you fit in a large organization, or help the HR folks know how much to put on your paycheck or what kind of benefits/perks go associated with that level, but I still believe that substance is more important. Regards Jorge COOK Chief Old Operations Knucklehead
Re: Home CPE choice
On Mar 31, 2010, at 6:55 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: Is there a market for a new breed of CPE running OpenWRT or pfsense on hardware with enough CPU/RAM to not fall over? Hi, Charles -- as a few hardware points to consider: Both the Soekris and Alix hardware is still very solid. We've been using them in a few research projects for a couple of years now and haven't had a single failure. Both can push ~20Mbit/sec with in-kernel packet forwarding and NAT. Alix2d2: 500Mhz Geode, 256MB DDR, 2x100Mbit ethernet, USB, CF, 2x miniPCI, $110 + enclosure ($10) /power ($6) Soekris net5501: 500Mhz Geode, 512MB DDR, 4x 100Mbit ethernet, USB, CF, miniPCI, PCI, $300 + power If you want to move a step up, there's a really nice new option on the market in the form of Intel Pineview atom-based systems, but the selection of embedded/router boards is more limited than it is with the Geodes. Advantech just released a single or dual core, 1.6Ghz, fanless atom-based system that draws about 15W that can easily handle 100Mbps: http://www.advantech.com.tw/products/AIMB-212/mod_1-DCLYTN.aspx (2x gigabit ethernet ports onboard) The drawback is that it's kinda spendy - about $220, IIRC, plus about $40 for 2GB DRAM and another $10 for a power supply - but it's a great little box. Takes 12V in so you can use a small power supply with it, not a big ITX beast (or an expensive inline ITX). And if you find yourself needing 5x RS232 ports, well, now you have 'em. :) (You're paying for an embedded controller...) We just got 20 of them and are able to handle a few hundred MB/sec of reading off of an SSD, etc. I haven't yet tried forwarding full gigabit through it, but it's probably ... around the limit. Don't go with the old Atom-based systems you might find on ebay. The pineview based ones are the first ones out that are fanless -- and the I/O controller is a *lot* better on these systems. If you go with an Atom system off of, say, Newegg, be careful with the chipset selection. -Dave
Re: Home CPE choice
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Blake Pfankuch bpfank...@cpgreeley.comwrote: I'm running IPcop on a mini ITX machine (old processor out of my laptop T5500), a cheapo stick of memory and a sata to CF adaptor with a 4gb CF card. All in all cost me about $350. Been running IPcop's for about 6 years now on various hardware going back to a dual p3 500 with 256mb of ram and no complaints aside from ipv6 support which is slated for the 2.x branch. I have a 50/10 cable line which I have kept saturated for multiple days at a time, 5 public IP's about 60 firewall rules and 3 network interfaces (LAN, WAN and guest wireless). I migrated from a PPPOE dsl provider to cable about a year and a half ago. Also physically moved about that time and never powered off the device, or had any issues whatsoever. The UI is a bit weird, but once you set it up you never touch it. 17:16:19 up 568 days, 19:36, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 snip Running IPcop on a circa 1995 PIII, 128 Mb Ram, I believe its 5Gb disk 3 of 5 I originally setup about 10 years ago when I decided on this platform (2 have died so far), total cost $0 using repurposed systems. It runs a DHCP LAN/Wan with a small dmz off it and other than security based upgrades hasn't been touched since it was installed. I just checked, its been up 496 days without a hiccup this time, probably since our last power outage which was longer than the 10 minutes my little ups will manage :) Had a problem the other day and my provider unamed, Largest BC/Canada/DSL provider finally got it fixed. One of the things they said was broken is the 12 year old DSL modem they provided and so they sent me a free replacement to get things up to speed. But wait, this is where things get interesting, they sent me an IP4 based NAT router. I called back and said, That won't work I need at leat a couple of Internet Reachable addresses to use.. Long story short, they are no longer providing addresses anymore, only Nat (was a battle but I managed to get them to send me a replacement modem/bridge instead), thus said Company will be recovering thousands of addresses over the next little while from all their residential customers to use somewhere else and lowering the functionality for the customer. On a side note, IPV6 was not available, was not in their plans, and there was no beta list, volunteer list, interest list, etc for people to express interest with. In the 1990's this Company was praised for its forward thinking :) cheers
Re: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
On 3/31/2010 19:05, Nick Hilliard wrote: On 01/04/2010 00:40, Michael Dillon wrote: In fact, consumer demand for IPv6 is close to 100%. Michael, I think you fat-fingered 0%. Just to be clear, I'm talking about the real world here. I wondered about that. I would have guess that nearly all consumers (where that is the most savvy label available for them) would reply huh?. The next layer up would say, Yeah, sure...I've got my firewalls set to stop it along wit the other evil stuff like ping. -- Democracy: Three wolves and a sheep voting on the dinner menu. Requiescas in pace o email Ex turpi causa non oritur actio Eppure si rinfresca ICBM Targeting Information: http://tinyurl.com/4sqczs http://tinyurl.com/7tp8ml
Re: Finding content in your job title
Larry Stites wrote: Come to think of it maybe that's a good name for a corporation; Gopher IT. That would unnecessarily confuse us 1 and a half human who still use gopher. :-(
Re: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
Michael Dillon wrote: ISPs who don't have IPv6 will soon be unable to provide access to all Internet sites, as content providers begin to bring IPv6 sites onstream. And ISPs without IPv6 will not be able to continue growing their networks, even for something as trivial as an existing customer who moves to a different PoP. It is April Fool's Day somewhere on Earth already (9:49PM Eastern here as I write this). What is the local time where you are Michael? --Patrick
Charter North Texas - IP Services Contact
Can I get an off-list reply from a Charter Cable admin for the North Texas area? (This is for IP services and/or residental cable services) Thank you! ___ Regards, Nick Hale Abuse Administrator nh...@softlayer.com mailto:nh...@softlayer.com 866.398.7638 toll-free 214.442.0601 fax 6400 International Parkway, Suite 2000 Plano, TX 75093 http://www.softlayer.com http://www.softlayer.com/ image001.jpg
Re: Home CPE choice
Netscreen 5GTs will also do IPv6 with some ScreenOS 5.4 code revs (5.4.0r10.0 for sure). Those pop up on Ebay for $60ish and make respectable home CPE devices. Not quite the horsepower of the SSG5 but they seem to hold up reasonably well. Dan Jones Juniper's SSG5 and SRX100 are nice options for home. I've enjoyed an SSG5 for awhile now. SRX100 for junos. SSG5's pop up on ebay occasionally for a few $100. -Iain On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Marty Anstey marty.ans...@sunwave.netwrote: Hopefully this e-mail is considered operational content :) The recent thread on the new linkys kit and ipv6 support got me thinking about CPE choice. What good off the shelf solutions are out there? Should one buy the high end d-link/linksys/netgear products? I've had bad experiences with those (netgear in particular). Should one get a real cisco router? The 877 or something? Maybe an ASA or the new small business targeted ISR (can't recall the model number off hand right now). There is mikrotik but I'm not so sure about the operating system. Is there a market for a new breed of CPE running OpenWRT or pfsense on hardware with enough CPU/RAM to not fall over? Granted that won't cost $79.00 at best buy. However it seems to me that decent CPE is going to run a couple hundred dollars in order to have sufficient ram/cpu. My current home router is a cisco 1841. I keep my 6mbps DSL line pretty much saturated all the time. Often times my wife will be watching Hulu in the living room, I'll be streaming music and running torrents (granted I have tuned my Azures client fairly well) all at the same time and it's a good experience. Running that kind of traffic load through my linksys would cause it to need a reboot once or more a day. What are folks here running in SOHO environments that doesn't require too frequent oil changes :) I run FreeBSD on a PIII; I can easily saturate my 15mbit cable connection without it breaking a sweat. I also have a couple Cisco 2610's, one of which is my ipv6 tunnel endpoint. -M -- -- - Iain Morris iain.t.mor...@gmail.com
Re: Finding content in your job title
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010, Jeroen van Aart wrote: What happened to titles such as programmer (or code monkey if your prefer, maybe a PC issue?), network administrator, systems administrator, systems analyst, information analyst? Those titles still exist, but after you read enough job postings for network administrator, network manager, or network engineer you might not remember what they meant to you originally because HR people are generally not tech-savvy, or jobs have to be posted in classification buckets that don't fit very well. I've seen more job postings than I care to count that asked for a network engineer, but the closest duty the job actually called for was someone who knows how to manage Exchange and Active Directory. jms
100% want IPv6 - Was: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
On 31/03/10 22:14 -0300, jim deleskie wrote: I'm a real life user, I know the difference and I could careless about v6. most anything I want I is on v4 and will still be there long after ( when ever it is) we run out of v4 addresses. If I'm on a From a content perspective, you may be right. Those with a quickly dwindling supply of v4 addresses will most likely use what they have left for business customers, and for content. However, there will be a time when a significant number of customers will not be able to access your content. content provider and I'm putting something new online I want everyone to see, they will find away for all of us with v4 and credit cards to see it, and not be so worried about developing countries or the sub 5% of people in developed countries for now. I'm sure @ some point v6 What percentage of sales are you willing to eat? will see the business need, but while I'm expect to have to deploy it for marketing reasons, I hope its someone else's problem but its a must have for real business. Are you willing to gamble your business on your expectations? Business models will develop that will take advantage of global addressing to end devices. The Next Big (Nth) Thing will. Do you feel that you have a perfect Crystal Ball, or do you want to start hedging your bets now? -- Dan White
Re: 100% want IPv6 - Was: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
Dan White wrote: On 31/03/10 22:14 -0300, jim deleskie wrote: I'm a real life user, I know the difference and I could careless about v6. most anything I want I is on v4 and will still be there long after ( when ever it is) we run out of v4 addresses. If I'm on a From a content perspective, you may be right. Those with a quickly dwindling supply of v4 addresses will most likely use what they have left for business customers, and for content. However, there will be a time when a significant number of customers will not be able to access your content. ^^ Uncertainty . What percentage of sales are you willing to eat? ^^ Fear . will see the business need, but while I'm expect to have to deploy it for marketing reasons, I hope its someone else's problem but its a must have for real business. Are you willing to gamble your business on your expectations? Business models will develop that will take advantage of global addressing to end devices. The Next Big (Nth) Thing will. Do you feel that you have a perfect Crystal Ball, or do you want to start hedging your bets now? ^^ Doubt. --Patrick
Re: 100% want IPv6 - Was: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
On 31/03/10 23:18 -0400, Patrick Giagnocavo wrote: Dan White wrote: From a content perspective, you may be right. Those with a quickly dwindling supply of v4 addresses will most likely use what they have left for business customers, and for content. However, there will be a time when a significant number of customers will not be able to access your content. ^^ Uncertainty . What percentage of sales are you willing to eat? ^^ Fear . Are you willing to gamble your business on your expectations? Business models will develop that will take advantage of global addressing to end devices. The Next Big (Nth) Thing will. Do you feel that you have a perfect Crystal Ball, or do you want to start hedging your bets now? ^^ Doubt. http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/ -- Dan White
Re: 100% want IPv6 - Was: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
Dan White wrote: Are you willing to gamble your business on your expectations? Business models will develop that will take advantage of global addressing to end devices. The Next Big (Nth) Thing will. Do you feel that you have a perfect Crystal Ball, or do you want to start hedging your bets now? ^^ Doubt. http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/ We have just (anecdotally, empirically) established earlier in this thread, that anything smaller than a mid-sized business, can't even *GET* IPv6 easily (at least in the USA); much less care about it. Talking about a crystal ball, in my view, is just a lot of hand-waving that means I don't have a real-world example to point to. Talking about the Next Big Thing means that somehow, the NBT will be present without any residential or small business broadband users partaking in it. Sounds like a pretty small piece of the pie for the NBT... For the record, I have no dog in this fight; I just think that the rhetoric / fanboi-ism / advocacy level is just a little too high - emotion rather than reason is taking over in the course of debate, which for me at least, is unwelcome. Cordially Patrick
Re: 100% want IPv6 - Was: New Linksys CPE, IPv6 ?
On 31/03/10 23:52 -0400, Patrick Giagnocavo wrote: We have just (anecdotally, empirically) established earlier in this thread, that anything smaller than a mid-sized business, can't even *GET* IPv6 easily (at least in the USA); much less care about it. Talking about a crystal ball, in my view, is just a lot of hand-waving that means I don't have a real-world example to point to. Talking about the Next Big Thing means that somehow, the NBT will be present without any residential or small business broadband users partaking in it. Sounds like a pretty small piece of the pie for the NBT... For the record, I have no dog in this fight; I just think that the rhetoric / fanboi-ism / advocacy level is just a little too high - emotion rather than reason is taking over in the course of debate, which for me at least, is unwelcome. As a (small) service provider with very stiff competition from much larger providers where I work, we have to have a perfect Crystal Ball, or hedge our bets. Customer needs are constantly changing, and are a constantly moving target. Historically we have a good understanding of what they want. We were the first broadband provider in our footprint for several years, but we have lost customers to competition as well. Technology is most notable when it is disruptive, and is probably most devastating to a company like our's when it is. We will only survive if we are prepared, and that's the same advice I would offer anyone who has a penny to lose in this game. -- Dan White
