Tobit software

[mkarir]

Hello,

We are working on a research project that is trying to identify
the root cause of some stray network traffic we are seeing.

If you run any software from Tobit and are willing to spare some
time to help us track down the root cause of this traffic we would
really appreciate your help.

Please contact me offlist so that we can coordinate.

Thanks
-manish

Network Research & Development
Merit Network Inc.

Interesting combination of SPAM + Phishing + stupidity

[Jorge Amodio]

this is obviously no news and the attachment as you all probably know
is a trojan executable.

The interesting part and kind of a test to determine who is more
stupid, the one sending the message or the one opening and executing
the attachment, the message is supposedly sent by UPS but signed as
DHL Customer Service, sort of "Welcome to Wells Fargo, your Bank of
America support team", duhhh.

Also, almost 3 months to notify you that a package was not delivered ?

Are spammers getting smarter ? or users getting dumber ?

Cheers

>From - Tue May 04 17:34:08 2010
>Return-Path: 
>Delivery-Date: Tue, 04 May 2010 18:25:37 -0400
>From: "UPS Manager Sal Erwin" 
>To: 
>Subject: UPS Delivery Problem NR 97981.
>Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 00:25:03 +0100
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
> boundary="=_NextPart_000_0006_01CAEBD8.A43991A0"
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>--=_NextPart_000_0006_01CAEBD8.A43991A0
>Content-Type: text/plain;
>   charset="Windows-1252"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Hello!
>
>We failed to deliver the package you have sent on the 6th of February in time
>because the recipient’s address is wrong.
>Please print out the invoice copy attached and collect the package at our 
>office.
>
>DHL Customer Services.
>
>
>--=_NextPart_000_0006_01CAEBD8.A43991A0
>Content-Type: application/zip;
>   name="UPS_invoice_4978.zip"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
>Content-Disposition: attachment;
>   filename="UPS_invoice_4978.zip"

RE: Surcharge for providing Internet routes?

[George Bonser]

> -Original Message-
> From: ML 
> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 1:44 PM
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Surcharge for providing Internet routes?
> 
> Has anyone here heard of or do they themselves charge extra for
> providing a complete internet table to customers?
> 
> Waive the surcharge for sufficiently large commits?
> 

I had one provider once that wanted to charge me a surcharge simply for
the privilege of running BGP.  The had "bgp charge" on their list of
things.  Well, we were dual-homed to them and I asked how in the world
they expected to fail traffic over if we *didn't* run bgb.  They should
be requiring I run bgp, not charging extra for it if they intend to meet
their own SLA.  Static routing to a dead link is a surefire SLA killer.
The sales rep got a little red.

As for a full table, no, I have not paid extra for it.

Re: Surcharge for providing Internet routes?

[Michael Dillon]

> I don't think there is a universally agreed upon definition of what
> transit means other than it involves someone paying someone else.

Uhh, "transit" is an English word which comes from the Latin word
meaning "it goes across". Transit has nothing to do with payment
at all. The only thing that everybody agrees on is that transit is
carrying packets across your network to another network.

Clearly, you could give away free transit if it helps you sell
T-shirts, or data center racks or some such, so payment is
just not relevant at all.

The problem is that "full transit" is such a common thing, that many people
just assume that "transit" means "full transit" and there, the misunderstandings
begin, especially with people that haven't had experience with ISPs who
make up their own rules instead of just copying the one down the road.

> I have no idea what the sales people call each in different
> countries, but domestic transit is not a misnomer as the ISP
> selling you this will be providing reacheability to their
> country specific customer base AND reacheability to their
> country specific peers.

Typically, sales people don't care about terminology and will happily
call "free transit", "paid peering" if it helps them make a sale.

But fundamentally, peering is about carrying packets from your
neighbor's network to destinations on your own network in return
for the same thing the other way around. Again, payment is not
part of the definition of peering.

Peering always involves two networks who are neighbors.

Transit always involves three or more networks who are
not neighbors and who have a third party network in
between them. The packets all have to transit the third
party network.

Most everything else is either marketing, or the jostling and adjustment
that happens when you discover that your business model isn't actually
profitable because you didn't think through your pricing structures in
enough detail, and some companies more clever than you have locked
in contracts that you really should not have signed at that price point.

--Michael Dillon

Re: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping

[Mark Smith]

On Tue, 4 May 2010 16:44:06 +0200 (CEST)
Mikael Abrahamsson  wrote:

> On Tue, 4 May 2010, Chris Boyd wrote:
> 
> > Most of the ADSL installations I've seen in SBC 13 state area had 
> > interleaving turned on, which significantly increases latency.  I 
> > suspect that's why many cable MSOs in the same territory have "cable is 
> > better for gaming" marketing campaigns running all the time.
> >
> > So the latency you see on an ADSL line is dependent on how the carrier 
> > set up the DSLAM.
> 
> Interleaving is good because it reduces bit error rate on the line. Would 
> be good though if the carrier let the customer change the properties of 
> the line to optimize for different things, high snr target/no interleaving 
> for low bw/low BER/low latency applications, low snr target/interleaving 
> for file transfers.
> 

It's common for ISPs in Australia who own their own DSLAMs to do this
via 'line profiles'. I'm on the most aggressive one, and have line
latency of around 9.5 to 10ms.

Also what is interesting is that ADSL firmware in the modem can
contribute significantly. I used to need to be on ADSL1 with
interleaving to get any sort of reliable line sync. After a
modem firmware upgrade, which I knew also involved an ADSL chipset
firmware upgrade, I didn't get any more bandwidth, but was able to get
stability (i.e. no loss of sync for weeks on end) without interleaving.

Regards,
Mark.

Re: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping

[Scott Weeks]

--- swm...@swm.pp.se wrote:
From: Mikael Abrahamsson 
On Tue, 4 May 2010, Scott Weeks wrote:

> "Interleaved" turned on to correct errors.  This adds ~25msec between 
> the CPE and the nearest router.  Sometimes folks ask for it to be 
> changed to "Fast".  We explain that errors may cause resyncs to happen 
> and then make the change if the customer still wants it.  That takes the

: Never seen it cause resyncs, but that might happen, dunno.

It definitely causes the DSLAM port to resync sometimes.



: It is usually settable to 1,4,16 ms in each direction, so 
: 25ms is not a "law of nature", it's just the default 16/4 ms 
: downstream/upstream interleaving and then the added coding delay.

We have to set it high because of the OSP.  It goes through jungles.  
Literally.  ;-)  Some areas get 25-30mph winds every day with 300-400 inches of 
rain a year.

http://www.nature.org/wherewework/northamerica/states/hawaii/preserves/art2363.html
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/4303747828_ce95aea13d.jpg

scott

RE: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping

[Frank Bulk - iName.com]

We're an ISP that has four access technologies.  Both cable and DSL modem
link times are affected by configured rate and sync rate, respectively.  

My home CM is at 15/1 Mbps and one-way latency is 4 to 5 msec.  My home DSL
modem is at 15/1 Mbps (with interleaving) and has a one-way latency of 15 to
16 msec.  And FTTH at 15/1 Mbps is about 2 msec.

In regards to burst mode, the cable modem file specifies how many bytes are
given that top speed, not time.  If the port is heavily utilized, "top"
speed may not be attained during that burst session.

Frank

-Original Message-
From: Patrick Giagnocavo [mailto:patr...@zill.net] 
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 10:19 PM
To: Srikanth Sundaresan; NANOG
Subject: Re: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping

Srikanth Sundaresan wrote:
> I'm trying to model ADSL access link bandwidth shaping. With a link of
> 18Mbps, I'm using a token bucket filter (tc + netem) to model 10Mbps,
> 8Mbps and 2Mbps access plans. I have a couple of questions:
> 
> - do ISPs typically use token bucket filters with large bursts to shape
traffic?
> - what kind of burst sizes and latencies/limits are typically used for
> the filter?
> 

You will definitely have to account for latency.

For emulating cable traffic, latencies (in the USA) will be about
60-80ms to typical sites.  Burst mode in my experience occurs only for
about the first 15 seconds, then is throttled back (though not always;
seems to depend on time of day).

For DSL, I seem to recall latency being about 90-110ms (note, I haven't
used DSL in many years).  Burst mode was generally not noticeable or
available, that is, you got the same speed regardless of downloading a
1MB jpeg or a 640MB .iso  file.

IMHO, IME, ISTR, YMMV...

--Patrick

Re: Thailand Internet firewall?

[Mikael Abrahamsson]

On Tue, 4 May 2010, Dobbins, Roland wrote:

Thai SPs are required by law to block sites deemed objectionable by the 
government of Thailand; common reasons given include lese majeste and/or 
other materials deemed injurious to 'national security'.


+1.

When I was in thailand the (my guess) URL inspection box was behaving 
badly and a substantial amount of TCP/80 connection attempts was failing. 
Using SSH tunneling to get out of Thailand made things behave much better 
becaus established tcp connections (even on 80) wasn't a problem, it was 
establishing new connections that was troublesome.


As all this sort of thing is considered a sensitive subject in Thailand, 
it's doubtful you'll get a response, IMHO.


+1 as well. There are two things you don't do in thailand, you don't ever 
say or do anything bad towards the king, and you don't do drugs. So since 
the filters are there to protect the king, it's a sensitive subject.


--
Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se

Re: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping

[Mikael Abrahamsson]

On Tue, 4 May 2010, Scott Weeks wrote:

"Interleaved" turned on to correct errors.  This adds ~25msec between 
the CPE and the nearest router.  Sometimes folks ask for it to be 
changed to "Fast".  We explain that errors may cause resyncs to happen 
and then make the change if the customer still wants it.  That takes the


Basically "interleaved" is a way "smearing" bits over time, so FEC can do 
its job when there is a 1ms line hit that causes a lot of errors during 
that 1ms.


Turning off interleaving (changing to "fast") usually means your "errored 
seconds" counter will increase over time because of lack of error 
correction, and your customer experiences packet loss intermittently. 
Never seen it cause resyncs, but that might happen, dunno.


It is usually settable to 1,4,16 ms in each direction, so 25ms is not a 
"law of nature", it's just the default 16/4 ms downstream/upstream 
interleaving and then the added coding delay.


--
Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se

Call For Papers - UIC 2010 (Xi\'an, China, October 26-29, 2010)

[Robert C. Hsu]

   Our sincere apologies if you receive multiple copies of this
   announcement.
   ---
   -
   CALL FOR PAPERS
   The 7th International Conference on Ubiquitous Intelligence and
   Computing
   - Building Smart Worlds in Real and Cyber Spaces -
   UIC 2010 (http://www.nwpu.edu.cn/uic2010/)
   Xi'an, China, October 26-29, 2010
   Technically Sponsored by IEEE CS TCSC
   Co-located with ATC 2010 (http://www.nwpu.edu.cn/atc2010/)
   ---
   -
   What's New:
   --
   1. Due to many requests, the submission deadline of UIC 2010 is
   extended to May 15.
   2. Selected best papers of UIC 2010 will be published in the special
   issues of:
   * Personal and Ubiquitous Computing (Springer, SCI-E)
   * International Journal of Information Acquisition (World Scientific)
   * International Journal of Autonomous and Adaptive Communications
   Systems (Inderscience)
   3. Six workshops have been accepted by UIC 2010. Workshop paper
   submission deadline is May 30.
   ---
   --
   Ubiquitous sensors, devices, networks and information are paving the
   way towards a smart world in which computational intelligence is
   distributed throughout the physical environment to provide reliable and
   relevant services to people. This ubiquitous intelligence will change
   the computing landscape because it will enable new breeds of
   applications and systems to be developed and the realm of computing
   possibilities will be significantly extended. By enhancing everyday
   objects with intelligence, many tasks and processes could be
   simplified, the physical spaces where people interact like the
   workplaces and homes, could become more efficient, safer and more
   enjoyable. Ubiquitous computing, or pervasive computing, uses these
   many ��smart things or u-things§ to create smart environments,
   services and applications.
   A smart thing can be endowed with different levels of intelligence, and
   may be context-aware, active, interactive, reactive, proactive,
   assistive, adaptive, automated, sentient, perceptual, cognitive,
   autonomic and/or thinking. Research on ubiquitous intelligence is an
   emerging research field covering many disciplines. A series of grand
   challenges exist to move from the current level of computing services
   to the smart world of adaptive and intelligent services. Started in
   2005, the series of UIC conferences has been held in Taipei, Nagasaki,
   Three Gorges (China), Hong Kong, Oslo and Brisbane. UIC 2010 will
   include a highly selective program of technical papers, accompanied by
   workshops, panel discussions and keynote speeches. Established as a
   premier venue in the area of ubiquitous intelligence and computing, UIC
   2010 will offer a forum for researchers to exchange ideas and
   experiences in developing intelligent/smart objects, environments and
   systems.
   
   TOPICS:
   
   1. Ubiquitous Intelligent/Smart Systems
   * Sensor, Ad Hoc, Mesh & P2P Networks
   * Social Networking and Computing
   * Knowledge Representation and Ontology
   * Wearable, Personal and Body Area Systems
   * Middleware and Intelligent Platforms
   * Intelligent Services and Architectures
   * Agents, Swarm and Context-aware Systems
   * Nature-inspired Intelligent Systems
   2. Ubiquitous Intelligent/Smart Environments
   * Smart Room, Home, Office, Laboratory
   * Smart Shop, Hospital, Campus, City, etc.
   * Smart Vehicle, Road, Traffic & Transportation
   * Healthcare and Elder/Child Care Services
   * Pervasive/Ubiquitous Media and Services
   * Pervasive Learning, Games, Entertainment
   * Other Intelligent/Smart Applications
   3. Ubiquitous Intelligent/Smart Objects
   * Electronic Labels, Cards, E-Tags and RFID
   * Embedded Chips, Sensors & Actuators
   * MEMS, NEMS, Micro & Biometric Devices
   * Smart Appliances and Wearable Devices
   * Material, Textile, Cloth, Furniture, etc.
   * Embedded Software and Agents
   * Interaction to Smart Objects/Devices
   * Smart Object OS and Programming
   4. Personal/Social/Physical Aspects
   * Real/Cyber World Modeling and Semantics
   * User/Object Identity and Activity Recognition
   * Adaptive User Interfaces and Tools
   * Security, Privacy, Safety and Legal Issues
   * Emotional, Ethical and Psychological Factors
   * Implication & Impact of Ubiquitous Intelligence
   * Relations between Real and Cyber Worlds
   
   WORKSHOPS AND AFFILIATED EVENTS:
   
   The UIC 2010 Organizing Committee invites proposals for one-day
   workshops affiliated with the conference and addressing research areas
   related to the conference. The workshop proceedings will be published
   by IEEE CS Press. Submit workshop proposals to works

Call for Papers - IEEE GLOBECOM 2010 Workshop on Web and Pervasive Security (WPS 2010, 6 - 10 December 2010, Miami, USA)

[Robert C. Hsu]

   
   ** Apologies if you receive multiple copies of this CFP. **
   
   Dear Colleagues:
   Please disseminate this message in your networks / subscribed lists.
   We also invite you to contribute a paper to this conference.
   *
   IEEE GLOBECOM 2010 Workshop on Web and Pervasive Security
   WPS'10 (Miami, USA, 6-10 December 2010)
   http://grid.chu.edu.tw/wps2010/
   *
   ---
   1. Introduction
   2. Topics
   3. Important dates
   4. Paper format & submission
   5. Organizing Committee
   6. History of WPS
   ---
   =
   1. Introduction
   =
   Web and Pervasive Environments (WPE) are emerging rapidly as an
   exciting new
   paradigm including ubiquitous, web, grid, ubiquitous and peer-to-peer
   computing to
   provide computing and communication services any time and anywhere.
   In order to realize their advantages, it requires the security services
   and
   Applications to be suitable for WPE. If they are realized, a user will
   be able to
   remotely access and control all information and web appliances in the
   workplace
   as well as at home and office, easily and conveniently use various
   services to
   enable working at home, remote education, remote diagnosis, virtual
   shopping,
   network gaming, and high quality VOD with no limitations on space and
   time.
   WPS2010 is a successor of the 1st International Workshop on Application
   and
   Security service in Web and pervAsive eNvirionments (ASWAN-07,
   HuangShan,
   China, June, 2007), the 2nd International Workshop on Web and Pervasive
   Security (WPS-08, Hong Kong, March, 2008) and the 3rd International
   Workshop
   on Web and Pervasive Security (WPS-09, Galveston, Texas, March, 2009)
   WPS2010 workshop is intended to foster the dissemination of
   state-of-the-art
   research in the area of secure WPE including security models, security
   systems,
   application services and novel security applications associated with
   its utilization.
   Also, it offers the possibility to discuss protocols and protocol
   characteristics with
   those people that are using them for solving their scientific problems.
   We plan to
   publish high quality papers, which cover the various web and security
   issues and
   practical applications in WPE.
   ===
   2. Topics
   ===
   Topics of interest include, but are not limited to:
   * Security web-based collaboration applications and services
   * Model for secure web services
   * Wireless sensor networks / RFID application and security for WPE
   * Intelligent multimedia security services for WPE
   * Key management and authentication in WPE
   * Network security issues and protocols in WPE
   * Access control in WPE
   * Privacy Protection in WPE
   * Cryptographic algorithms for WPE
   * Data privacy and trustiness for WPE
   * Forensics Issue for WPE
   * Privacy and anonymity for WPE
   * Security in P2P networks and Grid computing in WPE
   * Trust management in WPE
   * Commercial and industrial applications for WPE
   ===
   3. Important Dates
   ===
   Paper Submission: July 2, 2010
   Decision notification: August 13, 2010
   Camera-ready and registration due: August 31, 2010
   ==
   4. Paper format & submission
   ==
   Papers must be submitted electronically in Adobe PDF format to the
   submission
   system.
   http://edas.info/N8718
   Papers must have authors' affiliation and contact information on the
   first
   page. Papers must be unpublished and not being considered elsewhere for
   publication.
   In particular, papers submitted to WPS2010 must not be concurrently
   submitted to
   GLOBECOM in identical or modified form.
   Prospective authors are encouraged to submit an IEEE conference style
   paper up to 5 pages
   (including all text, figures, and references) through EDAS submission
   system
   http://edas.info/N8718
   One additional page will be allowed with additional publication fee.
   An accepted paper must be registered before the registration deadline.
   An accepted paper must be presented at the workshop. Failure to
   register before the deadline will result in automatic withdrawal of
   the paper from the workshop proceedings and the program. All accepted
   and presented papers will be included in the IEEE GLOBECOM proceedings
   and IEEE digital library. GLOBECOM has the right to remove an accepted
   and registered but not presented paper from the IEEE digital library.
   ===
   5. Organizing Committee
   ===
   Workshop Co-Chairs:
   Jong Hyuk Park, Seoul National University of 

Re: any "bring your own bandwidth" IPv4 over IPv4 tunnel merchants?

[Tim Burke]

I've had no problems with it. Seems to be much better than the  
residential service. The /29 was only $10? I must be getting jipped,  
I'm paying $20.

Tim Burke
630.617.1300 Cell
t...@tburke.us Email
Sent from my iPhone

On May 4, 2010, at 12:52 PM, "Owen DeLong"  wrote:

> LoL... I'm using that same service (without the /29 for $10/month)  
> as transport for my
> tunneled setup.
>
> Owen
>
> On May 4, 2010, at 9:40 AM, Tim Burke wrote:
>
>> I'm using Comcast's business-class service. ~$110 per month for  
>> 22mbit down, 5mbit up and a /29.
>>
>> This would definitely be your best bet as opposed to trying to rig  
>> up a tunneled setup. You can also get their 12mbit down, 2mbit up  
>> service with a /29 for $79, iirc.
>>
>> 
>> From: Chris Grundemann [cgrundem...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:01 PM
>> To: Bill Bogstad
>> Cc: NANOG list
>> Subject: Re: any "bring your own bandwidth" IPv4 over IPv4 tunnel  
>> merchants?
>>
>> On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 12:12, Bill Bogstad  wrote:
>>> Like many people, I can't justify the expense of "commercial" IP
>>> connectivity for my residence.  As a result, I deal with dynamic IP
>>> addresses; dns issues; and limitations on the services that I can  
>>> host
>>> at my residence.
>> 
>>
>> Not sure where you live / what service is available to you but many
>> "business" DSL, cable and fixed-wireless offerings are quite
>> reasonably priced these days.  I pay about $100/mo for 16m x 2m and a
>> /28 from my local cable operator - which is likely less than
>> residential service plus a vpn/tunnel service. It sure isn't a fiber
>> metro-E connection but it does let me run my various servers out of
>> the house. Perhaps something to look into.
>>
>> $0.02
>> ~Chris
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Bill Bogstad
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> @ChrisGrundemann
>> weblog.chrisgrundemann.com
>> www.burningwiththebush.com
>> www.coisoc.org
>

Re: any "bring your own bandwidth" IPv4 over IPv4 tunnel merchants?

[Owen DeLong]

LoL... I'm using that same service (without the /29 for $10/month) as transport 
for my
tunneled setup.

Owen

On May 4, 2010, at 9:40 AM, Tim Burke wrote:

> I'm using Comcast's business-class service. ~$110 per month for 22mbit down, 
> 5mbit up and a /29.
> 
> This would definitely be your best bet as opposed to trying to rig up a 
> tunneled setup. You can also get their 12mbit down, 2mbit up service with a 
> /29 for $79, iirc.
> 
> 
> From: Chris Grundemann [cgrundem...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:01 PM
> To: Bill Bogstad
> Cc: NANOG list
> Subject: Re: any "bring your own bandwidth" IPv4 over IPv4 tunnel merchants?
> 
> On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 12:12, Bill Bogstad  wrote:
>> Like many people, I can't justify the expense of "commercial" IP
>> connectivity for my residence.  As a result, I deal with dynamic IP
>> addresses; dns issues; and limitations on the services that I can host
>> at my residence.
> 
> 
> Not sure where you live / what service is available to you but many
> "business" DSL, cable and fixed-wireless offerings are quite
> reasonably priced these days.  I pay about $100/mo for 16m x 2m and a
> /28 from my local cable operator - which is likely less than
> residential service plus a vpn/tunnel service. It sure isn't a fiber
> metro-E connection but it does let me run my various servers out of
> the house. Perhaps something to look into.
> 
> $0.02
> ~Chris
> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Bill Bogstad
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> --
> @ChrisGrundemann
> weblog.chrisgrundemann.com
> www.burningwiththebush.com
> www.coisoc.org

Re: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping

[Scott Weeks]

--- cb...@gizmopartners.com wrote:
From: Chris Boyd 
On May 4, 2010, at 7:27 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:

> I am not sure what the point is in mixing in speed of light 
> latency. If your "typical sites" are, say, Indian cricket 
> blogs, you will typically have a high latency from the US. 
> What does that tell you about your DSL or Cable system, 
> except that it is somewhat removed from India ?

: Most of the ADSL installations I've seen in SBC 13 state area 
: had interleaving turned on, which significantly increases latency.
: I suspect that's why many cable MSOs in the same territory have 
: "cable is better for gaming" marketing campaigns running all the time.
:
: So the latency you see on an ADSL line is dependent on how the 
: carrier set up the DSLAM.


In the system I work on, which is in a state with many rural areas and an OSP 
that goes through a lot of very wet and very windy areas, has "Interleaved" 
turned on to correct errors.  This adds ~25msec between the CPE and the nearest 
router.  Sometimes folks ask for it to be changed to "Fast".  We explain that 
errors may cause resyncs to happen and then make the change if the customer 
still wants it.  That takes the latency from ~25msec to ~3-4msec.  So use both 
when doing your modeling.  I don't know how to model the error rate, though, as 
that would be dependent on the quality of the OSP you're modeling...

scott


ps. if you're so fast in gaming that a difference of 1/5 of a second makes a 
difference you're good...  ;-)

RE: any "bring your own bandwidth" IPv4 over IPv4 tunnel merchants?

[Tim Burke]

I'm using Comcast's business-class service. ~$110 per month for 22mbit down, 
5mbit up and a /29.

This would definitely be your best bet as opposed to trying to rig up a 
tunneled setup. You can also get their 12mbit down, 2mbit up service with a /29 
for $79, iirc.


From: Chris Grundemann [cgrundem...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:01 PM
To: Bill Bogstad
Cc: NANOG list
Subject: Re: any "bring your own bandwidth" IPv4 over IPv4 tunnel merchants?

On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 12:12, Bill Bogstad  wrote:
> Like many people, I can't justify the expense of "commercial" IP
> connectivity for my residence.  As a result, I deal with dynamic IP
> addresses; dns issues; and limitations on the services that I can host
> at my residence.


Not sure where you live / what service is available to you but many
"business" DSL, cable and fixed-wireless offerings are quite
reasonably priced these days.  I pay about $100/mo for 16m x 2m and a
/28 from my local cable operator - which is likely less than
residential service plus a vpn/tunnel service. It sure isn't a fiber
metro-E connection but it does let me run my various servers out of
the house. Perhaps something to look into.

$0.02
~Chris

>
> Thanks,
> Bill Bogstad
>
>


--
@ChrisGrundemann
weblog.chrisgrundemann.com
www.burningwiththebush.com
www.coisoc.org

Re: Thailand Internet firewall?

[Dobbins, Roland]

On May 4, 2010, at 11:03 PM, Drew Weaver wrote:

> Is anyone aware whether or not Thailand has a centralized firewall on 
> Internet access?

Thai SPs are required by law to block sites deemed objectionable by the 
government of Thailand; common reasons given include lese majeste and/or other 
materials deemed injurious to 'national security'.

Thailand's Ministry of Information & Computer Technology is the relevant 
governmental bureau - their Web site may be found here:



As all this sort of thing is considered a sensitive subject in Thailand, it's 
doubtful you'll get a response, IMHO.

---
Roland Dobbins  // 

Injustice is relatively easy to bear; what stings is justice.

-- H.L. Mencken

Thailand Internet firewall?

[Drew Weaver]

Hi,

Is anyone aware whether or not Thailand has a centralized firewall on Internet 
access?

We've had reports from several folks in Thailand that they are unable to get to 
some IP addresses in our network (this problem is reproducible on the 
traceroute.org Thailand sites as well).

It seems to only be from Thailand, and only certain IPs on our network

Does anyone know how to contact whoever is responsible for this firewall system 
to find out at the very least why this block is in place?

thanks,
-Drew

Re: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping

[Chris Boyd]

On May 4, 2010, at 8:42 AM, isabel dias wrote:

> Is cable better for gamming? 

All the LAN party places I know of use Metro Ethernet solutions.  Gamers like 
low ping times to their servers, and are willing to spend $$ to get them.  So 
if your target market includes people who play a lot of first person shooters, 
it may be worthwhile to consider offering a low latency setup for them.

--Chris

Re: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping

[Mikael Abrahamsson]

On Tue, 4 May 2010, Chris Boyd wrote:

Most of the ADSL installations I've seen in SBC 13 state area had 
interleaving turned on, which significantly increases latency.  I 
suspect that's why many cable MSOs in the same territory have "cable is 
better for gaming" marketing campaigns running all the time.


So the latency you see on an ADSL line is dependent on how the carrier 
set up the DSLAM.


Interleaving is good because it reduces bit error rate on the line. Would 
be good though if the carrier let the customer change the properties of 
the line to optimize for different things, high snr target/no interleaving 
for low bw/low BER/low latency applications, low snr target/interleaving 
for file transfers.


--
Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se

Re: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping

[Valdis . Kletnieks]

On Tue, 04 May 2010 06:42:59 PDT, isabel dias said:
> Is cable better for gaming?

Depends on the game and the gamer.  Personally, it doesn't matter to me, as
even if I was on my employer's 10GE uplink, I'd still lose to some snot-nosed
brat with fast reflexes on a 56kb modem.  So till they invent an uplink that
has -1500ms latency, I'm screwed.


pgpNRxRSB5iRB.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping

[isabel dias]

Is cable better for gamming? 



- Original Message 
From: isabel dias 
To: Chris Boyd ; NANOG 
Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 2:41:48 PM
Subject: Re: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping

same as in the HFC and QAM modulation values and so on and so forth .
services that are requiring a connection-oriented service such as a gaming 
clan/cloud are highly affected when working in latency and jitter network based 
environments such as the ethernet based ones and SMDS ...




- Original Message 
From: Chris Boyd 
To: NANOG 
Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 2:19:39 PM
Subject: Re: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping


On May 4, 2010, at 7:27 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:

> I am not sure what the point is in mixing in speed of light latency. If your 
> "typical sites" are, say,
> Indian cricket blogs, you will typically have a high latency from the US. 
> What does that tell
> you about your DSL or Cable system, except that it is somewhat removed from 
> India ?

Most of the ADSL installations I've seen in SBC 13 state area had interleaving 
turned on, which significantly increases latency.  I suspect that's why many 
cable MSOs in the same territory have "cable is better for gaming" marketing 
campaigns running all the time.

So the latency you see on an ADSL line is dependent on how the carrier set up 
the DSLAM.

--Chris

Re: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping

[isabel dias]

same as in the HFC and QAM modulation values and so on and so forth .
services that are requiring a connection-oriented service such as a gaming 
clan/cloud are highly affected when working in latency and jitter network based 
environments such as the ethernet based ones and SMDS ...




- Original Message 
From: Chris Boyd 
To: NANOG 
Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 2:19:39 PM
Subject: Re: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping


On May 4, 2010, at 7:27 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:

> I am not sure what the point is in mixing in speed of light latency. If your 
> "typical sites" are, say,
> Indian cricket blogs, you will typically have a high latency from the US. 
> What does that tell
> you about your DSL or Cable system, except that it is somewhat removed from 
> India ?

Most of the ADSL installations I've seen in SBC 13 state area had interleaving 
turned on, which significantly increases latency.  I suspect that's why many 
cable MSOs in the same territory have "cable is better for gaming" marketing 
campaigns running all the time.

So the latency you see on an ADSL line is dependent on how the carrier set up 
the DSLAM.

--Chris

Re: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping

[Chris Boyd]

On May 4, 2010, at 7:27 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:

> I am not sure what the point is in mixing in speed of light latency. If your 
> "typical sites" are, say,
> Indian cricket blogs, you will typically have a high latency from the US. 
> What does that tell
> you about your DSL or Cable system, except that it is somewhat removed from 
> India ?

Most of the ADSL installations I've seen in SBC 13 state area had interleaving 
turned on, which significantly increases latency.  I suspect that's why many 
cable MSOs in the same territory have "cable is better for gaming" marketing 
campaigns running all the time.

So the latency you see on an ADSL line is dependent on how the carrier set up 
the DSLAM.

--Chris

Re: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping

[Marshall Eubanks]

On May 4, 2010, at 8:02 AM, Dave Hart wrote:

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 08:54 UTC, Raymond Dijkxhoorn wrote, quoting  
Patrick:

For emulating cable traffic, latencies (in the USA) will be about
60-80ms to typical sites.

[...]
For DSL, I seem to recall latency being about 90-110ms (note, I  
haven't

used DSL in many years).

[...]
The latency i have here on my DSL is ~ 16-22 ms. So its much lower,  
factor

4...


Either you're looking only at the loop contribution, or you're in the
SF bay area and nearly every "typical site" is available locally.
Here in the relatively backwater Seattle suburbs, unless it's served
by Microsoft or a content distribution network, there are substantial
latencies to typical sites.



I am not sure what the point is in mixing in speed of light latency.  
If your "typical sites" are, say,
Indian cricket blogs, you will typically have a high latency from the  
US. What does that tell
you about your DSL or Cable system, except that it is somewhat removed  
from India ?


Regards
Marshall



To make it concrete I used Windows ICMP tracert against a few sites
from both cable and DSL in the Seattle suburbs.  First from a
consumer-grade cable offering:

http://pastebin.com/TGc6xsHk

Then from a business-class telco DSL (complete with more than 1 static
IP, someone tie me down lest my soul escape my body from sheer joy!):

http://pastebin.com/DMrsiUQf

Note I made no attempt to ensure I was tracing to the same numeric IP
address from both, and the tests were simultaneous.

Cheers,
Dave Hart

P.S.  A special flip of the bird to those IWFs who filter all ICMP at
the edge and break path MTU detection.

Re: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping

[Raymond Dijkxhoorn]

Hi!


Either you're looking only at the loop contribution, or you're in the
SF bay area and nearly every "typical site" is available locally.
Here in the relatively backwater Seattle suburbs, unless it's served
by Microsoft or a content distribution network, there are substantial
latencies to typical sites.

To make it concrete I used Windows ICMP tracert against a few sites
from both cable and DSL in the Seattle suburbs.  First from a
consumer-grade cable offering:

http://pastebin.com/TGc6xsHk

Then from a business-class telco DSL (complete with more than 1 static
IP, someone tie me down lest my soul escape my body from sheer joy!):


I am in the Netherlands, and its pretty common there to have low latency 
on DSL ;)


Bye,
Raymond.

Re: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping

[Dave Hart]

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 08:54 UTC, Raymond Dijkxhoorn wrote, quoting Patrick:
>> For emulating cable traffic, latencies (in the USA) will be about
>> 60-80ms to typical sites.
[...]
>> For DSL, I seem to recall latency being about 90-110ms (note, I haven't
>> used DSL in many years).
[...]
> The latency i have here on my DSL is ~ 16-22 ms. So its much lower, factor
> 4...

Either you're looking only at the loop contribution, or you're in the
SF bay area and nearly every "typical site" is available locally.
Here in the relatively backwater Seattle suburbs, unless it's served
by Microsoft or a content distribution network, there are substantial
latencies to typical sites.

To make it concrete I used Windows ICMP tracert against a few sites
from both cable and DSL in the Seattle suburbs.  First from a
consumer-grade cable offering:

http://pastebin.com/TGc6xsHk

Then from a business-class telco DSL (complete with more than 1 static
IP, someone tie me down lest my soul escape my body from sheer joy!):

http://pastebin.com/DMrsiUQf

Note I made no attempt to ensure I was tracing to the same numeric IP
address from both, and the tests were simultaneous.

Cheers,
Dave Hart

P.S.  A special flip of the bird to those IWFs who filter all ICMP at
the edge and break path MTU detection.

Re: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping

[Raymond Dijkxhoorn]

Hi!


- do ISPs typically use token bucket filters with large bursts to shape traffic?
- what kind of burst sizes and latencies/limits are typically used for
the filter?



You will definitely have to account for latency.

For emulating cable traffic, latencies (in the USA) will be about
60-80ms to typical sites.  Burst mode in my experience occurs only for
about the first 15 seconds, then is throttled back (though not always;
seems to depend on time of day).

For DSL, I seem to recall latency being about 90-110ms (note, I haven't
used DSL in many years).  Burst mode was generally not noticeable or
available, that is, you got the same speed regardless of downloading a
1MB jpeg or a 640MB .iso  file.


The latency i have here on my DSL is ~ 16-22 ms. So its much lower, factor 
4...


Bye,
Raymond.