Re: Top-posting
I am top-posting to show that this entire thread is retarded. I certainly could have bottom-posted, because I don't use Outlook for this list, but the point here is -- is this what the NANOG list has really become? Really? So sad. - ferg On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 10:55 PM, Dobbins, Roland rdobb...@arbor.net wrote: On Apr 12, 2011, at 12:42 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: I have used Evolution and IMAP with exchange servers in the past, so, I'm not convinced this is an entirely accurate statement. And in fact, I'm posting this message in plain-text via the OSX Mail.app connected via native Exchange protocols to an Exchange server. There's even a plug-in for Mail.app in order to make inline posting easier. -- Fergie, a.k.a. Paul Ferguson Engineering Architecture for the Internet fergdawgster(at)gmail.com ferg's tech blog: http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/
Re: Top-posting (was: Barracuda Networks is at it again: Any Suggestions as to anAlternative? )
Call me and old 'hard case' - but I prefer that when I get information via email, that if possible, the relevant information show up immediately. Call me lazy I guess - but I would expect that most folks on this list have also understood good user interface design, and that the least amount of work that needs to be done for the receiver to be able to get their information is frequently the best solution. On the other hand - I must admit that I do often top post and note 'see inline' with heavy use of snipping in order to shorten what has turned into a long topic in order to make it a shorter and more concise topic. I absolutely agree with anybody (or everybody), that wants mailing list archives to be readable. Fortunately we have things called 'computers' that do that quite well - and reorganize the email correspondence on mailing lists back into standard chronological order. I am also not adverse to changing formats - I just think that it is just inefficient. - mike On Apr 11, 2011, at 11:15 AM, John Levine wrote: It's really impressive how insular a bunch of old timers can be. Coming up next: rants about HTML mail! R's, John In article BANLkTi=v11tghfgmxstjxscjtgpb6ct...@mail.gmail.com you write: On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Kevin Oberman ober...@es.net wrote: Of late I have started to get responses from people (not even the person who top-posted) saying that I should f*** off and that they would post however they wanted. Very hostile and even threatening. My wife complained once that my responses are hard to read and that I should just put at the top like the rest of the Internet. I fear I have been passed by...
Re: Yahoo! Mail Issue
Well yahoo's mx tend to do that a lot. i used to have a lot of bounced emails to yahoo until i implemented dkim, domainkeys and spf then all my yahoo problems disappeared , I just want to know if you have implemented any of these technologies dkim,domainkeys and spf, other wise you would have all those problems Joshua On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Matthew Petach mpet...@netflight.comwrote: On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 9:28 PM, Nathanael C. Cariaga nccari...@stluke.com.ph wrote: Hi All, It seems that we're having some problems receiving emails from selected Yahoo! Mail Accounts. I noticed that there is a commonality between the accounts that fails when sending an email to our domain (see email header below) From: mailer-dae...@nm1.bullet.mail.sg1.yahoo.com mailer-dae...@nm1.bullet.mail.sg1.yahoo.com To: *-*-*-*-*a...@yahoo.com Sent: Fri, April 8, 2011 6:26:08 PM Subject: Failure Notice Sorry, we were unable to deliver your message to the following address. xxx...@stluke.com.ph: Mail server for stluke.com.ph unreachable for too long Um...it might be easier to get mail, if your host didn't close the connection with a 5xx error. :/ mpetach@hinotori:~ host -t mx stluke.com.ph stluke.com.ph mail is handled by 20 qc.stluke.com.ph. stluke.com.ph mail is handled by 20 mx1.stluke.com.ph. stluke.com.ph mail is handled by 40 gc.stluke.com.ph. mpetach@hinotori:~ nslookup qc.stluke.com.ph. Server: 127.0.0.1 Address:127.0.0.1#53 Non-authoritative answer: Name: qc.stluke.com.ph Address: 219.90.94.56 mpetach@hinotori:~ mpetach@opstools1:~ telnet 219.90.94.56 25 Trying 219.90.94.56... Connected to static-host-219-90-94-56.tri.ph. Escape character is '^]'. ehlo yahoo.com 554 SMTP synchronization error Connection closed by foreign host. mpetach@opstools1:~ I imagine when port 25 stops giving 5xx failure message back, mail reception might improve. ^_^; Matt
Re: Top-posting
Hi Paul, Your point is taken - but actually this is a bit of a conundrum, at least for me. Generally what I see is that younger people who grew up using email when they were children desire to bottom post or post inline whereas folks that originally utilized email primarily to communicate technical information only generally prefer to top-post. I believe that top-posting is fine and that have also found use for (what do they call it, reverse-hugarian or reverse-polish) notation for doing things like naming and structuring software packages to also be immensely useful. Either way, I ultimately agree with you - except with the possible exception that possibly if the NaNog list really care - they could setup a survey of all list members, have everybody vote, then we know on this list that when we ask questions where we expect timely answers we can expect the answers to possibly be buried in a myriad of text. Another problem with bottom-posting is the SNIP of anything above, etc. Cheers - and sorry for having a little late night fun bothering everybody with noting something that I have seen mostly as a social change on how people communicate via email over the past 30 years. - Mike P.S. - meanwhile, for an email list like NaNog - I am still hoping that most folks want efficiency on answers to questions - and if the need old data are clever enough to realize that there are plenty of ways via HTTP to find those 'weirdo top-post commentors' listed with their posts in chronological and/or relevance level - with prior commentary properly sorted. - mfd On Apr 11, 2011, at 11:06 PM, Paul Ferguson wrote: I am top-posting to show that this entire thread is retarded. I certainly could have bottom-posted, because I don't use Outlook for this list, but the point here is -- is this what the NANOG list has really become? Really? So sad. - ferg On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 10:55 PM, Dobbins, Roland rdobb...@arbor.net wrote: On Apr 12, 2011, at 12:42 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: I have used Evolution and IMAP with exchange servers in the past, so, I'm not convinced this is an entirely accurate statement. And in fact, I'm posting this message in plain-text via the OSX Mail.app connected via native Exchange protocols to an Exchange server. There's even a plug-in for Mail.app in order to make inline posting easier. -- Fergie, a.k.a. Paul Ferguson Engineering Architecture for the Internet fergdawgster(at)gmail.com ferg's tech blog: http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/
Re: Top-posting (was: Barracuda Networks is at it again: Any Suggestions as to anAlternative? )
On 12 Apr 2011, at 07:33, Michael DeMan wrote: Call me and old 'hard case' - but I prefer that when I get information via email, that if possible, the relevant information show up immediately. Call me lazy I guess - but I would expect that most folks on this list have also understood good user interface design, and that the least amount of work that needs to be done for the receiver to be able to get their information is frequently the best solution. Well indeed, top-posting is just so much more efficient given the volumes of email most of us probably see each day. Back when receiving an email was an event, and your xbiff flag popping up was a cause for excitement, taking time to scroll/page down to the new bottom-posted content in the reply was part of the enjoyment of the whole 'You have new mail' process. But I'm afraid times have changed; bottom-posted email is now an annoyance to most just as a slow-loading web page would be. Tim
Re: Yahoo! Mail Issue
We had a lot of issues delivering mail to yahoo.com.sg about a year ago (just the .sg domain, plain .com was fine). Could establish connection but it'd die halfway through transferring mail. A static route to drop the MTU (for their subnet only) to 1000 fixed the problem right up. Not sure if pmtud was/is broken or what. - Chris On Tue, 2011-04-12 at 15:29 +1000, Nathanael C. Cariaga wrote: Thanks anyway. I just find this issue intriguing since not all Yahoo mail accounts are affected. In addition, incoming mails from other domain doesn't seem to be affected. That is why I want to check if it is a network issue :) -nathan On 4/12/2011 1:17 PM, Matthew Petach wrote: On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Brielle Brunsbr...@2mbit.com wrote: On 4/11/11 10:47 PM, Matthew Petach wrote: mpetach@opstools1:~telnet 219.90.94.56 25 Trying 219.90.94.56... Connected to static-host-219-90-94-56.tri.ph. Escape character is '^]'. ehlo yahoo.com 554 SMTP synchronization error Connection closed by foreign host. mpetach@opstools1:~ I imagine when port 25 stops giving 5xx failure message back, mail reception might improve. ^_^; Works fine for me, your getting an error because your trying to send a command before receiving the first 220, aka RFC violation. As long as you connect, wait a moment without trying to send a command, your fine. Doh! See, that's what happens when you ask networking people to try to troubleshoot mail issues. ^_^;; Sorry about that. :( Matt
Re: Yahoo! Mail Issue
Strangely though I noticed that the email accounts that seems to be affected by our concern seems to be related to the Yahoo SG servers. On 4/12/2011 3:04 PM, Christopher Balmain wrote: We had a lot of issues delivering mail to yahoo.com.sg about a year ago (just the .sg domain, plain .com was fine). Could establish connection but it'd die halfway through transferring mail. A static route to drop the MTU (for their subnet only) to 1000 fixed the problem right up. Not sure if pmtud was/is broken or what. - Chris On Tue, 2011-04-12 at 15:29 +1000, Nathanael C. Cariaga wrote: Thanks anyway. I just find this issue intriguing since not all Yahoo mail accounts are affected. In addition, incoming mails from other domain doesn't seem to be affected. That is why I want to check if it is a network issue :) -nathan On 4/12/2011 1:17 PM, Matthew Petach wrote: On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Brielle Brunsbr...@2mbit.com wrote: On 4/11/11 10:47 PM, Matthew Petach wrote: mpetach@opstools1:~ telnet 219.90.94.56 25 Trying 219.90.94.56... Connected to static-host-219-90-94-56.tri.ph. Escape character is '^]'. ehlo yahoo.com 554 SMTP synchronization error Connection closed by foreign host. mpetach@opstools1:~ I imagine when port 25 stops giving 5xx failure message back, mail reception might improve. ^_^; Works fine for me, your getting an error because your trying to send a command before receiving the first 220, aka RFC violation. As long as you connect, wait a moment without trying to send a command, your fine. Doh! See, that's what happens when you ask networking people to try to troubleshoot mail issues. ^_^;; Sorry about that. :( Matt -- Nathanael C. Cariaga Network Security Administrator St Luke's Medical Center Tel (QC) : +63 2 723 0101 ext 5520 / 4206 Tel (GC) : +63 2 789 7700 ext 6035 / 6036 Tel : +63 2 356 5686 Mobile : +63 922 8735686 EMail: nccari...@stluke.com.ph
Re: Top-posting (was: Barracuda Networks is at it again: Any Suggestions as to anAlternative? )
I really don't think anybody is concerned about how fast the email downloads anymore. Rather it is more of a matter of how long it takes us humans to process the incredible volume of information we are expected to process. I have no problem either 'top posting' or 'bottom posting' - but I agree it would be good for the NaNog list to decide on a policy. I say we all vote. The ultimate question on email etiquette is naturally how to properly identify inline commentary. Top-post is definitely the most efficient for that. For instance, if I have a lengthy correspondence with a peer who may or may not speed English, the top-post is always respected, and from there it is quite easy (because it is in the top) to note that other commentary is inline - and (as I mentioned before) - to remove unnecessary material while leaving short portions of material relevant. To get back on topic about using email efficiently and get away from peoples personal preferences, I will say the following. #1) I have no disagreement about whether to top-post or bottom-post on this list or any other - given that there is a policy in place. Maintaing communications is the most important thing. #2) I still do not understand how 'bottom posters' reference material from prior e-mails in their replies? Perhaps I am just ignorant. I often have lengthy business and technical communications which some times require a bit of snipping here and there - the best way to notify somebody you have SNIPPED the prior conversation is to say it right up front? #3) These kinds of things become even more important when working with non-native English speakers. #4) I still seem to believe (maybe I am wrong) - that 'bottom posters' thing that an individual email to list is supposed to be an 'archive' - I wholly disagree. On Apr 11, 2011, at 11:49 PM, Tim Chown wrote: On 12 Apr 2011, at 07:33, Michael DeMan wrote: Call me and old 'hard case' - but I prefer that when I get information via email, that if possible, the relevant information show up immediately. Call me lazy I guess - but I would expect that most folks on this list have also understood good user interface design, and that the least amount of work that needs to be done for the receiver to be able to get their information is frequently the best solution. Well indeed, top-posting is just so much more efficient given the volumes of email most of us probably see each day. Back when receiving an email was an event, and your xbiff flag popping up was a cause for excitement, taking time to scroll/page down to the new bottom-posted content in the reply was part of the enjoyment of the whole 'You have new mail' process. But I'm afraid times have changed; bottom-posted email is now an annoyance to most just as a slow-loading web page would be. Tim
Re: Yahoo! Mail Issue
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 12:12 AM, Nathanael C. Cariaga nccari...@stluke.com.ph wrote: Strangely though I noticed that the email accounts that seems to be affected by our concern seems to be related to the Yahoo SG servers. Oh. You don't seem to want to accept connections from the singapore servers at all: -bash-3.2$ telnet qc.stluke.com.ph 25 Trying 219.90.94.56... Connected to qc.stluke.com.ph. Escape character is '^]'. 550 Blacklisted: Blocked - see http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?115.178.12.223 Connection closed by foreign host. -bash-3.2$ So, they really can't send mail to your users--but it's your machine rejecting the connection. :/ Matt On 4/12/2011 3:04 PM, Christopher Balmain wrote: We had a lot of issues delivering mail to yahoo.com.sg about a year ago (just the .sg domain, plain .com was fine). Could establish connection but it'd die halfway through transferring mail. A static route to drop the MTU (for their subnet only) to 1000 fixed the problem right up. Not sure if pmtud was/is broken or what. - Chris On Tue, 2011-04-12 at 15:29 +1000, Nathanael C. Cariaga wrote: Thanks anyway. I just find this issue intriguing since not all Yahoo mail accounts are affected. In addition, incoming mails from other domain doesn't seem to be affected. That is why I want to check if it is a network issue :) -nathan On 4/12/2011 1:17 PM, Matthew Petach wrote: On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Brielle Brunsbr...@2mbit.com wrote: On 4/11/11 10:47 PM, Matthew Petach wrote: mpetach@opstools1:~ telnet 219.90.94.56 25 Trying 219.90.94.56... Connected to static-host-219-90-94-56.tri.ph. Escape character is '^]'. ehlo yahoo.com 554 SMTP synchronization error Connection closed by foreign host. mpetach@opstools1:~ I imagine when port 25 stops giving 5xx failure message back, mail reception might improve. ^_^; Works fine for me, your getting an error because your trying to send a command before receiving the first 220, aka RFC violation. As long as you connect, wait a moment without trying to send a command, your fine. Doh! See, that's what happens when you ask networking people to try to troubleshoot mail issues. ^_^;; Sorry about that. :( Matt -- Nathanael C. Cariaga Network Security Administrator St Luke's Medical Center Tel (QC) : +63 2 723 0101 ext 5520 / 4206 Tel (GC) : +63 2 789 7700 ext 6035 / 6036 Tel : +63 2 356 5686 Mobile : +63 922 8735686 EMail : nccari...@stluke.com.ph
Re: Top-posting (was: Barracuda Networks is at it again: Any Suggestions as to anAlternative? )
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011, Michael DeMan wrote: The ultimate question on email etiquette is naturally how to properly identify inline commentary. It's not a problem. Inline is done by trimming lines that are not needed and quoted text is prefaced by a sign. So if the email you're reading doesn't have a few lines of followed by text, the sender doesn't know how to properly quote/trim and answer inline and most of the time their text is not worth reading anyway. -- Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se
Re: Top-posting (was: Barracuda Networks is at it again: AnySuggestions as to anAlternative? )
Tim Chown wrote: Well indeed, top-posting is just so much more efficient given the volumes of email most of us probably see each day. Top posting works in conversations you are having with someone, usually just one person, because you are aware of what's been said. If one comes into a conversation with many people and reads the top post, there is no reference to what that applies to unless you've been following the conversation from the beginning. I wonder if anyone actually took the time to read the relevant links on the NANOG page gord referred to? http://www.tux.org/lkml/#s3-9
Re: Barracuda Networks is at it again: Any Suggestions as to an Alternative?
* Justin Scott: No such luck: They want me to PAY FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR for which I did NOT receive service and then for the current (upcoming year). Sorry - I don't allow myself to be ripped off like that. Hi John, this is actually a pretty common practice for service subscription models where the software and its components (spam filter rules in this case) are being continually updated. But it's not been updated during the sabbatical. In this regard, it's very different from crisis support services, where such a model is still obnoxious, but at least makes some sense. but you're going to benefit NOW from work that was done at that time (the un-paid period) AND all the future updates that come out during your new renewal period. Seems doubtful, given the volatility of filtering rules. -- Florian Weimerfwei...@bfk.de BFK edv-consulting GmbH http://www.bfk.de/ Kriegsstraße 100 tel: +49-721-96201-1 D-76133 Karlsruhe fax: +49-721-96201-99
Re: Implementations/suggestions for Multihoming IPv6 for DSL sites
On 11, Apr, 2011, at 17:26 , Owen DeLong wrote: But can you explain better? Why should LISP require more IP space than normal IPv4 deployment? If you are a new site, you ask for an IP block. This is independent from whether or not you will use LISP. Sure, but, if you also need locators, don't you need additional IP space to use for locators? No, those are the IP address that you provider gives to your border router. Right... In addition to my provider independent addresses... That's more address space than is required if I am not using LISP. No, you just use the IP addresses of the interface to your upstream as locators. Those addresses are there anyway, right? So using LISP is not adding anything. No true. I ask for a PI block that I will use as EID-Prefix, then the locators are part of the address space of my providers. There is no duplication. Right... Ordinarily, without LISP, I get a PI block and use that for EID and the routing is based on the EID prefix. With LISP, the EID prefix is PI and I use additional PA resources to do the routing locators. That's what I meant by duplication. There are additional PA resources required on top of the PI in order to make LISP work. I still do not see this duplication (may be I need more coffee this morning..) You do not need to modify anything in the PA space of your provider. Those resources are there and are used to make your block reachable also without LISP. Luigi
Re: Implementations/suggestions for Multihoming IPv6 for DSL sites
On 11, Apr, 2011, at 23:53 , Jeff Wheeler wrote: On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 2:03 PM, Owen DeLong o...@delong.com wrote: I do tend to think that any technology sufficiently confusing that I cannot understand it well after reasonable effort is of questionable value for wide deployment. The secret is to ignore all the crazy acronyms and boil it down to this -- LISP sets up tunnels to remote end-points based on what it learns from a mapping server, and these tunnels may be used by one or more end-to-end flows. I personally believe LISP is a horrible idea that will have trouble scaling up, because a large table of LISP mappings is not any easier to store in FIB than a larger DFZ. The solution the LISP folks This is one of the few parts of LISP I do understand and I'm not entirely convinced that it is all that bad because you don't have to do this on core routers, you can push it out pretty close to the customer edge, possibly even on the customer side of said edge. We already have this in the core today, thanks to MPLS. The problem with LISP is the router that does encapsulation, which you can think of as conceptually identical to a PE router, must have a large enough FIB for all simultaneous flows out of the customers behind that PE router. This may be a very large number for an end-user PE router with a bunch of subscribers behind it running P2P file sharing, and may also be very large for a hosting shop with end-users from all over the globe downloading content. This is not true. There are several works out there showing that the FIB will not grow as you are saying. Luigi In the case of a CDN, one distributed CDN node may have far fewer active flows (installed in FIB) than the size of the DFZ, since the CDN would intend to direct end-users to a geographically-local CDN node. As you know, I like to think of what happens when you receive a DDoS. In the case of LISP, if there are a huge number of source addresses sending just one packet to you that generates some kind of reply, your PE router will query its mapping server, install a new tunnel/next-hop, and transmit the reply packet. If the FIB is not large enough to install every flow, it will churn, creating a DoS condition essentially identical to what we saw with older flow-cache based routers when they were subjected to traffic to/from a very large number of hosts. Like you, I am not 100% sure of my position on LISP, but I do think I understand it has a very serious design limit that probably doesn't make things look any better than polluting the DFZ from the perspective of content providers or end-user ISPs. It does have benefits from the carrier perspective because, as you say, it can move the PE router into the customer's network and move state information from the carrier to the edge; but I think this comes at a high complexity cost and might result in overall more work/cost for everyone. -- Jeff S Wheeler j...@inconcepts.biz Sr Network Operator / Innovative Network Concepts
Re: Yahoo! Mail Issue
Oh well... Just have to inform our users :( Thanks! =) ps. I'm just wondering why yahoo doesn't inform their users that the email that they sent was blocked because of their servers were listed in a blocklist (inspite that the server is able to return a correct reject code 550) On 4/12/2011 3:33 PM, Matthew Petach wrote: -bash-3.2$ telnet qc.stluke.com.ph 25 Trying 219.90.94.56... Connected to qc.stluke.com.ph. Escape character is '^]'. 550 Blacklisted: Blocked - seehttp://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?115.178.12.223 Connection closed by foreign host. -bash-3.2$ --
Re: Yahoo! Mail Issue
Tell you the truth, you shouldnt be dropping the connection right at the smtp banner with a 5xx - return it after RCPT TO. On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Nathanael C. Cariaga nccari...@stluke.com.ph wrote: Oh well... Just have to inform our users :( Thanks! =) ps. I'm just wondering why yahoo doesn't inform their users that the email that they sent was blocked because of their servers were listed in a blocklist (inspite that the server is able to return a correct reject code 550) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian (ops.li...@gmail.com)
Re: Top-posting
on 12.04.2011 08:45 Michael DeMan wrote: Generally what I see is that younger people who grew up using email when they were children desire to bottom post or post inline whereas folks that originally utilized email primarily to communicate technical information only generally prefer to top-post. I would say, it's just the other way round. Just my .02€ Arnold -- Arnold Nipper / nIPper consulting, Sandhausen, Germany email: arn...@nipper.de phone: +49 6224 9259 299 mobile: +49 152 53717690 fax: +49 6224 9259 333 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Top-posting (was: Barracuda Networks is at it again: Any Suggestions as to anAlternative? )
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:49:17 +0100 Tim Chown t...@ecs.soton.ac.uk wrote: Call me and old 'hard case' - but I prefer that when I get information via email, that if possible, the relevant information show up immediately. Right. And the most relevant information is the snippet being replied to in that email - or that part of the email. Well indeed, top-posting is just so much more efficient given the volumes of email most of us probably see each day. Indeed. It lets us filter out people who don't understand the protocol and probably have less useful information for us. Back when receiving an email was an event, and your xbiff flag popping up was a cause for excitement, taking time to scroll/page down Back then we also trimmed the text so that we didn't have to page down a few screens to see the reply. Then, like now, if someone can't be bothered to compose a message properly I just move on. Also back then we still read lots of messages. We just used Usenet instead of email. Now that email has supplanted Usenet for many discussion groups (a good thing IMHO) we get more mail. I find that the amount of time spent reading discussions has been pretty steady over the years. It's just the number of groups that has decreased as has the medium. The way I see it, I read many orders of magnitude more messages than I send. That tells me that the bulk of the work involved should be in composing. The work composing is multiplied by 1. The work reading can be multiplied by many thousands. changed; bottom-posted email is now an annoyance to most just as a slow-loading web page would be. It's only an annoyance if you try to repeat the entire thread in each message. The basic rule is not you must bottom post. It is you must trim and bottom post. For more detail we have archives. -- D'Arcy J.M. Cain da...@druid.net | Democracy is three wolves http://www.druid.net/darcy/| and a sheep voting on +1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082)(eNTP) | what's for dinner.
Re: [Nanog] Re: LISP
On 04/12/2011 02:12 AM, Jason Frisvold wrote: On Apr 11, 2011, at 11:02 AM, harbor235 wrote: http://www.lisp4.net/ This sounds a lot like LNP in the telco world. Is the goal here to make IP's portable ? One of the goals, yes. Or is this a viable way to access IPv6 from either an IPv4 host or an IPv6 host unfortunate enough to not have full IPv6 tables? LISP will not do translation for you, so an IPv6-only host will not be able to talk to an IPv4-only host by just using LISP. However, solving the problem of not having full IPv6 tables is possible in two ways: 1) you use IPv4 locators so basically tunnel the traffic over IPv4; or 2) use a proxy tunnel router that does have access to full IPv6 tables. And do all of the networks you pass through have to be LISP enabled? Ideally, the source and destination networks both have to be LISP enabled, the core doesn't have to know anything about LISP. It is however possible for LISP enabled sites to communicate with sites not deploying LISP, using proxy tunnel routers deployed by third parties. For more discussion about how this might be deployed see Section 4 of the LISP deployment document: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jakab-lisp-deployment-03#section-4 Regards, -- Lori Jakab UPC Advanced Broadband Communications Center
Re: Barracuda Networks is at it again: Any Suggestions as to an Alternative?
On 09/04/2011 10:37, Bryan Irvine wrote: As do some states with automotive registration. It's a quite normal practice. If you're in a monopoly or near-monopoly position, you can get away with screwing over your customer base. If you're in a competitive market, practices like support catch-up fees depend on a company's ability to trade on their customers' ignorance about what products are available in the market. Who knows, it may well work for this quarter or the next - but as a long term business proposition, it's quite corrosive to customer loyalty. Nick
Re: Top-posting (was: Barracuda Networks is at it again: Any Suggestions as to anAlternative? )
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 12:17:54 +0100 gord gordsla...@ieee.org wrote: I wasn't pedantic or impolite enough to suggest that it was off-topic here (which, technically, it is), simply saying that it was doing my Actually, I don't think it is off-topic. Meta-discussions about the list are considered on-topic for the list. This is a discussion about whether the rules for the list should be changed and so is on-topic. -- D'Arcy J.M. Cain da...@druid.net | Democracy is three wolves http://www.druid.net/darcy/| and a sheep voting on +1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082)(eNTP) | what's for dinner.
Re: Top-posting (was: Barracuda Networks is at it again: Any Suggestions as to anAlternative? )
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 2:49 AM, Tim Chown t...@ecs.soton.ac.uk wrote: Well indeed, top-posting is just so much more efficient given the volumes of email most of us probably see each day. That's true... if you're adding a trivial thought to an already concise thread. If you're adding complex argument or information, or if the thread has wandered into a wide topic, a top-posted message is often incomprehensible. Without the context provided by posting inline, the reader can't immediately tell what point or points you're responding to. That's why in lists like this one we intermix new thoughts with the information they're responsive to. More, bottom-posting is just a subset of inline posting in which we're only responding to one element. But I'm afraid times have changed; bottom-posted email is now an annoyance to most just as a slow-loading web page would be. Then you're doing it wrong. You're supposed to trim the original down to just the context that clarifies your response. That's the other problem with top-posters... nobody trims, so if I want to understand what they're attempting to say I have to scroll down, read all the previous messages and then guess which part they're replying to. Usually the lazy top-poster hasn't said anything worth that much effort. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William D. Herrin her...@dirtside.com b...@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. .. Web: http://bill.herrin.us/ Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
Re: Top-posting (was: Barracuda Networks is at it again: Any Suggestions as to anAlternative? )
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:49:17 BST, Tim Chown said: Well indeed, top-posting is just so much more efficient given the volumes of email most of us probably see each day. http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernelm=129565913825601w=2 Go read that thread. 115 messages and counting. Read *all* of them. Then think how much longer it would have taken if everybody had top posted. Second note in the thread - new text is: RIP to this guy, won't be missed :) You *really* want to have read the context on that before reading the comment. If top-posted, it leaves you thinking something entirely different ;) pgpTWdzQQm7rm.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Top-posting (was: Barracuda Networks is at it again: Any Suggestions as to anAlternative? )
On 12/04/11 6:47 AM, William Herrin wrote: On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 2:49 AM, Tim Chownt...@ecs.soton.ac.uk wrote: But I'm afraid times have changed; bottom-posted email is now an annoyance to most just as a slow-loading web page would be. Then you're doing it wrong. You're supposed to trim the original down to just the context that clarifies your response. That's the other problem with top-posters... nobody trims, so if I want to understand what they're attempting to say I have to scroll down, read all the previous messages and then guess which part they're replying to. Usually the lazy top-poster hasn't said anything worth that much effort. An even bigger problem is that the lazy top-poster often misses critical issues that either clarify the post they are replying to (making their reply irrelevant) or forgets to reply to something critical in the quoted text. I run into this often at $dayjob, where I can't ask more than one question in an email because the top-posted reply generally only addresses the first question. The people who top post see this as a feature - they get their reply composed and sent off faster and can then move on to other things. They don't understand why they fail to thrive in their jobs as co-workers start to route discussions around them and then ultimately they are the first to be laid off because they aren't seen as an essential part of the team. jc
Re: Level 3 Agrees to Purchase Global Crossing
On 4/11/2011 10:13 AM, William Allen Simpson wrote: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/print/2011-04-11/level-3-agrees-to-acquire-global-crossing-in-deal-valued-at-1-9-billion.html The deal will combine two unprofitable companies with total revenue of $6.26 billion as of last year, and cut annualized capital spending by about $40 million, according to the statement. It will also help reduce the pressure on prices, which have declined by as much as 30 percent a year in the industry, said Donna Jaegers, an analyst at DA Davidson Co. “This is what telecom has needed for a long time,” said Denver-based Jaegers, who recommends buying both stocks. “You have way too many players.” If L3 merges GBLX in as well as they did Broadwing...the little guy stands to do pretty well.
Re: Yahoo! Mail Issue
- Original Message - From: Nathanael C. Cariaga nccari...@stluke.com.ph Thanks anyway. I just find this issue intriguing since not all Yahoo mail accounts are affected. In addition, incoming mails from other domain doesn't seem to be affected. That is why I want to check if it is a network issue :) It only happens when the sending server is less than 600 miles from you. Cheers, -- jra
