Re: Binge On! - get your umbrellas out, stuff's hitting the fan.

[Constantine A. Murenin]

On 10 January 2016 at 20:12, Owen DeLong  wrote:
>
>> On Jan 9, 2016, at 08:01 , Jeremy Austin  wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 5:06 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The best solution for everybody is the solution most consumers are adverse
>>> to, which is usage based billing. Granted, many times the providers have
>>> shot themselves in the foot by making the charges punitive instead of based
>>> on cost plus margin. Reasonable $/gig for everybody! :-)
>>
>>
>> I'm tempted to make an analogy to health care, insurance, and universal
>> coverage, but I'll abstain.
>>
>> Usage based billing alters the typical hockey stick graph: the 10% of users
>> using 80% of the bandwidth are otherwise subsidized by the long tail.
>>
>> As an ISP, usage-based billing is more sensible, because I would no longer
>> have to stress about oversubscription ratios and keeping the long tail
>> happy. But usage-based models are more stressful for the consumer; I think
>> I disagree that it's the best model for everybody.
>
> As much as I love to criticize T-Mo for what they do wrong (and there’s 
> plenty),
> this is one area where I think T-Mo has actually done something admirable.
>
> They have (sort of) usage-based billing.
>
> For $x/month you get Y GB of LTE speed data and after that you drop to 
> 128kbps.
>
> You don’t pay an overage charge, but your data slows way down.
>
> If you want to make it fast again, you can for $reasonable purchase additional
> data within that month on a one-time basis.
>
> I would like to encourage other carriers to adopt this model, actually. If
> Verizon had a model like this, I would probably switch tomorrow assuming
> their prices weren’t too far out of line compared to T-Mo.

Since you're bringing up 128kbps and Verizon, let me mention that a
company by the name of RokMobile appears to be offering an unlimited
256kbps throttling over on Verizon network, with 5GB of
(non-throttled?) 4G LTE, for 52,24 USD/mo after the 2,25 fees over the
49,99 list price (the fees appear to be identical regardless of the
ZIP Code, go figure!).

http://RokMobile.com/
http://reddit.com/r/RokMobile

I haven't tried them yet, but I'm getting kinda sick of paying ~79$/mo
for my 70$/mo Unlimited 4G plan with T-Mobile US, all the while they
keep throttling my hotspot at 128kbps after 5GB now, all whilst
effectively offering unlimited 1,5Mbps for all those chosen video
providers.

With the average web-pages being in the 3MB these days --
http://idlewords.com/talks/website_obesity.htm -- it takes a whole lot
of time to load up anything over 0.128Mbps (0.016MB/s).  The unlimited
128kbps part gets less and less useful these days.

There's now really little technical reason they can't bump 0.128Mbps
to 1.5Mbps if you're on LTE.  Nowadays, even 1.5Mbps is already slow
enough that people will still notice that their connection is
throttled.  And it'll also be an incentive to move up to LTE -- right
now, I have none, and I might as well be using as much spectrum at
128kbps on non-LTE as 1Mbps would cost on LTE.

BTW, with the minimum transmissions sizes on airtime and such, I'm
actually curious whether offering something like 256kbps, 512kbps or
even 1Mbps over LTE might in reality cost exactly the same amount of
airtime/spectrum as 128kbps over LTE.  Anyone knows?

Cheers,
Constantine.SU.

RE: Best Source for ARIN Region /24

[Shon Elliott]

I also am interested in where people are finding blocks of /22 or smaller just 
in case. We have some blocks from Level 3, but eventually, we're going to be 
out. 

That being said, we did get our IPv6 /32 allocation from ARIN. If anyone has 
any ideas on how to properly deploy this in an ISP environment, I'd love to 
learn. I've read some whitepapers on the subject, but most of those deal with 
enterprise based networks, and not so much as a service provider.

Kind Regards,
Shon Elliott, KK6TOO
unWired Broadband, Inc.
www.getunwired.com




-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 12:11 PM
To: North American Network Operators' Group 
Subject: Re: Best Source for ARIN Region /24

Some expansions under my ISP hat may lead to needing some address space, so I'd 
be interested in where people are getting space from as well. Smaller blocks, 
though, /22 and smaller. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 


- Original Message -

From: "Matthew D. Hardeman"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 1:19:00 PM 
Subject: Best Source for ARIN Region /24 

I’m looking to buy a /24 of space for a new multi-homed network in the ARIN 
region. Can anyone out there speak to going rates for a /24 and best places to 
shop? 

Deploying IPv6 in an ISP network [ was: Best Source for ARIN Region /24 ]

[Hugo Slabbert]

On Mon 2016-Jan-11 20:16:21 +, Shon Elliott  wrote:


I also am interested in where people are finding blocks of /22 or smaller just 
in case. We have some blocks from Level 3, but eventually, we're going to be 
out.

That being said, we did get our IPv6 /32 allocation from ARIN. If anyone has 
any ideas on how to properly deploy this in an ISP environment, I'd love to 
learn. I've read some whitepapers on the subject, but most of those deal with 
enterprise based networks, and not so much as a service provider.


Probably others as well, but afaik RIPE NCC's courses are targeting the SP 
side a bit more to start getting your feet wet:


https://www.ripe.net/support/training/courses/ipv6/outline
https://www.ripe.net/support/training/courses/advanced-ipv6/outline

How that interacts with your particular equipment etc. is a bigger 
question...




Kind Regards,
Shon Elliott, KK6TOO
unWired Broadband, Inc.
www.getunwired.com




--
Hugo

h...@slabnet.com: email, xmpp/jabber
PGP fingerprint (B178313E):
CF18 15FA 9FE4 0CD1 2319 1D77 9AB1 0FFD B178 313E

(also on Signal)




-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 12:11 PM
To: North American Network Operators' Group 
Subject: Re: Best Source for ARIN Region /24

Some expansions under my ISP hat may lead to needing some address space, so I'd 
be interested in where people are getting space from as well. Smaller blocks, 
though, /22 and smaller.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com


- Original Message -

From: "Matthew D. Hardeman" 
To: nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 1:19:00 PM
Subject: Best Source for ARIN Region /24

I’m looking to buy a /24 of space for a new multi-homed network in the ARIN 
region. Can anyone out there speak to going rates for a /24 and best places to 
shop?




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Description: Digital signature

RE: Deploying IPv6 in an ISP network [ was: Best Source for ARIN Region /24 ]

[Shon Elliott]

Hi Hugo,

Thanks for the response to the IPv6 part of my e-mail. Unfortunately, I don't 
think our company will send anyone to London for training. I would hope that 
there would be something in the United States that would be available. I know 
the IPv6 basics, just not real plan on deploying it on a service provider 
network.

Kind Regards,
Shon Elliott, KK6TOO
unWired Broadband, Inc.
www.getunwired.com



-Original Message-
From: Hugo Slabbert [mailto:h...@slabnet.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 4:21 PM
To: Shon Elliott 
Cc: North American Network Operators' Group 
Subject: Deploying IPv6 in an ISP network [ was: Best Source for ARIN Region 
/24 ]

On Mon 2016-Jan-11 20:16:21 +, Shon Elliott  wrote:

>I also am interested in where people are finding blocks of /22 or smaller just 
>in case. We have some blocks from Level 3, but eventually, we're going to be 
>out.
>
>That being said, we did get our IPv6 /32 allocation from ARIN. If anyone has 
>any ideas on how to properly deploy this in an ISP environment, I'd love to 
>learn. I've read some whitepapers on the subject, but most of those deal with 
>enterprise based networks, and not so much as a service provider.

Probably others as well, but afaik RIPE NCC's courses are targeting the SP side 
a bit more to start getting your feet wet:

https://www.ripe.net/support/training/courses/ipv6/outline
https://www.ripe.net/support/training/courses/advanced-ipv6/outline

How that interacts with your particular equipment etc. is a bigger question...

>
>Kind Regards,
>Shon Elliott, KK6TOO
>unWired Broadband, Inc.
>www.getunwired.com
>
>

--
Hugo

h...@slabnet.com: email, xmpp/jabber
PGP fingerprint (B178313E):
CF18 15FA 9FE4 0CD1 2319 1D77 9AB1 0FFD B178 313E

(also on Signal)

>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 12:11 PM
>To: North American Network Operators' Group 
>Subject: Re: Best Source for ARIN Region /24
>
>Some expansions under my ISP hat may lead to needing some address space, so 
>I'd be interested in where people are getting space from as well. Smaller 
>blocks, though, /22 and smaller.
>
>
>
>
>-
>Mike Hammett
>Intelligent Computing Solutions
>http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
>Midwest Internet Exchange
>http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
>
>- Original Message -
>
>From: "Matthew D. Hardeman" 
>To: nanog@nanog.org
>Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 1:19:00 PM
>Subject: Best Source for ARIN Region /24
>
>I’m looking to buy a /24 of space for a new multi-homed network in the ARIN 
>region. Can anyone out there speak to going rates for a /24 and best places to 
>shop?
>
>

Re: Best Source for ARIN Region /24

[Owen DeLong]

About $10/address seems to be the going rate, so why do you say you paid too 
much?

Owen

> On Jan 11, 2016, at 12:01 , Christopher Dye  wrote:
> 
> I just paid way too much from Hilco Streambank on Auction. I think I ended up 
> spending about $2500 + ARIN fees (but I really needed it). 
> www.ipv4auctions.com
> 
> Christopher Dye
> Chief Technology Officer
> Paragon Solutions Group, Inc. 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Ray Orsini
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 1:22 PM
> To: Matthew D. Hardeman ; nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: RE: Best Source for ARIN Region /24
> 
> Ditto here. Seems like Matthew beat me to the question
> 
> Regards,
> Ray Orsini – CEO
> Orsini IT, LLC – Technology Consultants
> VOICE DATA  BANDWIDTH  SECURITY  SUPPORT
> P: 305.967.6756 x1009   E: r...@orsiniit.com   TF: 844.OIT.VOIP
> 7900 NW 155th Street, Suite 103, Miami Lakes, FL 33016 
> http://www.orsiniit.com | View My Calendar | View/Pay Your Invoices | View 
> Your Tickets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Matthew D.
> Hardeman
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 2:19 PM
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Best Source for ARIN Region /24
> 
> I’m looking to buy a /24 of space for a new multi-homed network in the ARIN 
> region.  Can anyone out there speak to going rates for a /24 and best places 
> to shop?

Re: RE: Deploying IPv6 in an ISP network [ was: Best Source for ARIN Region /24 ]

[Hugo Slabbert]

Apologies; I had looked at some of the NCC's online material and got stuck in 
the "it's all online these days, right?" bubble...

Excuse the noise...

--
Hugo
h...@slabnet.com: email, xmpp/jabber
also on Signal

 From: Shon Elliott  -- Sent: 2016-01-11 - 16:34 


> Hi Hugo,
>
> Thanks for the response to the IPv6 part of my e-mail. Unfortunately, I don't 
> think our company will send anyone to London for training. I would hope that 
> there would be something in the United States that would be available. I know 
> the IPv6 basics, just not real plan on deploying it on a service provider 
> network.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Shon Elliott, KK6TOO
> unWired Broadband, Inc.
> www.getunwired.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Hugo Slabbert [mailto:h...@slabnet.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 4:21 PM
> To: Shon Elliott 
> Cc: North American Network Operators' Group 
> Subject: Deploying IPv6 in an ISP network [ was: Best Source for ARIN Region 
> /24 ]
>
> On Mon 2016-Jan-11 20:16:21 +, Shon Elliott  
> wrote:
>
>>I also am interested in where people are finding blocks of /22 or smaller 
>>just in case. We have some blocks from Level 3, but eventually, we're going 
>>to be out.
>>
>>That being said, we did get our IPv6 /32 allocation from ARIN. If anyone has 
>>any ideas on how to properly deploy this in an ISP environment, I'd love to 
>>learn. I've read some whitepapers on the subject, but most of those deal with 
>>enterprise based networks, and not so much as a service provider.
>
> Probably others as well, but afaik RIPE NCC's courses are targeting the SP 
> side a bit more to start getting your feet wet:
>
> https://www.ripe.net/support/training/courses/ipv6/outline
> https://www.ripe.net/support/training/courses/advanced-ipv6/outline
>
> How that interacts with your particular equipment etc. is a bigger question...
>
>>
>>Kind Regards,
>>Shon Elliott, KK6TOO
>>unWired Broadband, Inc.
>>www.getunwired.com
>>
>>
>
> --
> Hugo
>
> h...@slabnet.com: email, xmpp/jabber
> PGP fingerprint (B178313E):
> CF18 15FA 9FE4 0CD1 2319 1D77 9AB1 0FFD B178 313E
>
> (also on Signal)
>
>>
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>>Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 12:11 PM
>>To: North American Network Operators' Group 
>>Subject: Re: Best Source for ARIN Region /24
>>
>>Some expansions under my ISP hat may lead to needing some address space, so 
>>I'd be interested in where people are getting space from as well. Smaller 
>>blocks, though, /22 and smaller.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-
>>Mike Hammett
>>Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>>Midwest Internet Exchange
>>http://www.midwest-ix.com
>>
>>
>>- Original Message -
>>
>>From: "Matthew D. Hardeman" 
>>To: nanog@nanog.org
>>Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 1:19:00 PM
>>Subject: Best Source for ARIN Region /24
>>
>>I’m looking to buy a /24 of space for a new multi-homed network in the ARIN 
>>region. Can anyone out there speak to going rates for a /24 and best places 
>>to shop?
>>
>>




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Re: IPv6 Implementation and CPE Behavior

[James R Cutler]

> On Jan 11, 2016, at 1:37 PM, Owen DeLong  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jan 11, 2016, at 10:23 , James R Cutler  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Jan 11, 2016, at 12:01 PM, Graham Johnston  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Are most CPE devices generally not IPv6 capable in the first place?  For 
>>> those that are capable are they usually still configured with IPv6 
>>> disabled, requiring the customer to enable it?  For those CPE that are 
>>> capable and enabled, is there a common configuration such as full blown 
>>> DHCPv6 with PD?
>> 
>> I can’t speak regarding “most CPE devices” but for CPE = Apple Airport 
>> Extreme
>> 
>>  • At least since the AirPort Extreme 802.11n (AirPort5,117) was 
>> released in 2011, the hardware has supported native IPv6 routing and 
>> acceptance of PD from the WAN.
>> 
>>  • The default configuration for firmware 7.7.3 is automatic WAN IPv6 
>> configuration, native IPv6 routing, and, acceptance of PD from the WAN. End 
>> systems on the single LAN receive a /64.
> 
> To be more clear… The LAN receives a /64 from which end systems are able to 
> construct one or more end system addresses using SLAAC.

I tried to keep it simple - my original draft said “All end systems on the LAN 
receive the same /64 prefix in RAs, even if the ISP has delegated a /56, for 
example.  It was altogether too wordy so I excised about half of the original 
text. Maybe I went too far.

> 
>> 
>>  • No DHCPv6 is provided to the LAN through firmware up to the current 
>> version 7.7.3. 
>> 
> 
> The good news is that RDNSS is allegedly supported in recent firmware 
> releases.

I have found no documentation from Apple or in the Airport Utility GUI that 
mentions it. I have figured out some of IPv6 entries in .baseconfig files, but 
none for RDNSS.

The bad news is that I have yet to really understand RDNSS in the context of OS 
X. I don’t find any recognizable mention in sysctl inet6 parameters. OS X El 
Capitan systems autoconfigure the LAN/64:EUI-64 address of the Airport Extreme 
along with the IPv4 nnn.nnn.nnn..1 address as DNS server  addresses.  Windows 
10 appears to do the same. (I haven’t bothered to look into Windows internals.  
I don’t get paid to do that anymore.) I keep IPv6 disabled on my Snow Leopard 
Server instances, both because no IPv6 DNS server address is ever 
autoconfigured and because none of those instances should ever get incoming 
IPv6 traffic.
> 
> Owen

Thanks for your comments.

James R. Cutler
james.cut...@consultant.com
PGP keys at http://pgp.mit.edu

Re: Best Source for ARIN Region /24

[Brough Turner]

Note that ARIN has a list of "Registered Transfer Facilitators" at:
   https://www.arin.net/resources/transfer_listing/facilitator_list.html

I've just started look into buying a /20.  So far, Hilco Streambank auction
prices seemed better than the two other facilitators I have communicated
with. If this whole topic is off target for this list, off list responses
would be welcome..., also pointers to any other appropriate forum.

Thanks,
Brough

Brough Turner
netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
Mobile:  617-285-0433   Skype:  brough
netBlazr Inc.  | Google+
 | Twitter
 | LinkedIn
 | Facebook
 | Blog
 | Personal website




On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Christopher Dye 
wrote:

> I just paid way too much from Hilco Streambank on Auction. I think I ended
> up spending about $2500 + ARIN fees (but I really needed it).
> www.ipv4auctions.com
>
> Christopher Dye
> Chief Technology Officer
> Paragon Solutions Group, Inc.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Ray Orsini
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 1:22 PM
> To: Matthew D. Hardeman ; nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: RE: Best Source for ARIN Region /24
>
> Ditto here. Seems like Matthew beat me to the question
>
> Regards,
> Ray Orsini – CEO
> Orsini IT, LLC – Technology Consultants
> VOICE DATA  BANDWIDTH  SECURITY  SUPPORT
> P: 305.967.6756 x1009   E: r...@orsiniit.com   TF: 844.OIT.VOIP
> 7900 NW 155th Street, Suite 103, Miami Lakes, FL 33016
> http://www.orsiniit.com | View My Calendar | View/Pay Your Invoices |
> View Your Tickets
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Matthew D.
> Hardeman
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 2:19 PM
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Best Source for ARIN Region /24
>
> I’m looking to buy a /24 of space for a new multi-homed network in the
> ARIN region.  Can anyone out there speak to going rates for a /24 and best
> places to shop?
>

Re: Deploying IPv6 in an ISP network [ was: Best Source for ARIN Region /24 ]

[Owen DeLong]

> On Jan 11, 2016, at 16:21 , Hugo Slabbert  wrote:
> 
> On Mon 2016-Jan-11 20:16:21 +, Shon Elliott  
> wrote:
> 
>> I also am interested in where people are finding blocks of /22 or smaller 
>> just in case. We have some blocks from Level 3, but eventually, we're going 
>> to be out.
>> 
>> That being said, we did get our IPv6 /32 allocation from ARIN. If anyone has 
>> any ideas on how to properly deploy this in an ISP environment, I'd love to 
>> learn. I've read some whitepapers on the subject, but most of those deal 
>> with enterprise based networks, and not so much as a service provider.

Step 1: Figure out what size block you should have requested and go back and 
get that.

Sure, that’s a little bit flip, but I’m actually serious. Most ISPs will need 
more than a /32 unless they are fairly trivial.

Instead of starting from a /32 and figuring out how to squeeze your customers 
into it, you should start from the number of end-sites you expect to serve from 
your largest serving site (POP or other aggregation point in your network) in 
the next, say 5 years.

Round that up to a nibble boundary with 25% free.

For example, if your largest site has fewer than 192 end-sites served, 8 bits 
is enough. If you have 192 or more but less than 3072, 12 bits is enough.
IF you have a million customers in your largest serving site, you’re looking at 
20 bits or more per serving site.

Next, figure out the number of serving sites you expect to have in the next 5 
years and round that up to a nibble boundary (again with 25% free).

So, if you expect to have more than 12, but fewer than 192 serving sites, 8 
bits is enough. Fewer than 12, you can get by with 4 bits. From 192-3071, 12 
bits.

Now, add those two sets of bits together and subtract from 48.

That’s your prefix size that you need to ask for.

I’m quite certain you can get that size prefix if you’ve done the exercise 
correctly because that’s exactly how the policy is written.

Owen

Re: Best Source for ARIN Region /24

[Mike Hammett]

I spent about five minutes looking for that list earlier today and couldn't 
find it. Thanks, Brough. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 


- Original Message -

From: "Brough Turner"  
To: "North American Network Operators' Group"  
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 3:38:46 PM 
Subject: Re: Best Source for ARIN Region /24 

Note that ARIN has a list of "Registered Transfer Facilitators" at: 
https://www.arin.net/resources/transfer_listing/facilitator_list.html 

I've just started look into buying a /20. So far, Hilco Streambank auction 
prices seemed better than the two other facilitators I have communicated 
with. If this whole topic is off target for this list, off list responses 
would be welcome..., also pointers to any other appropriate forum. 

Thanks, 
Brough 

Brough Turner 
netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband! 
Mobile: 617-285-0433 Skype: brough 
netBlazr Inc.  | Google+ 
 | Twitter 
 | LinkedIn 
 | Facebook 
 | Blog 
 | Personal website 
 



On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Christopher Dye  
wrote: 

> I just paid way too much from Hilco Streambank on Auction. I think I ended 
> up spending about $2500 + ARIN fees (but I really needed it). 
> www.ipv4auctions.com 
> 
> Christopher Dye 
> Chief Technology Officer 
> Paragon Solutions Group, Inc. 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Ray Orsini 
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 1:22 PM 
> To: Matthew D. Hardeman ; nanog@nanog.org 
> Subject: RE: Best Source for ARIN Region /24 
> 
> Ditto here. Seems like Matthew beat me to the question 
> 
> Regards, 
> Ray Orsini – CEO 
> Orsini IT, LLC – Technology Consultants 
> VOICE DATA  BANDWIDTH  SECURITY  SUPPORT 
> P: 305.967.6756 x1009 E: r...@orsiniit.com TF: 844.OIT.VOIP 
> 7900 NW 155th Street, Suite 103, Miami Lakes, FL 33016 
> http://www.orsiniit.com | View My Calendar | View/Pay Your Invoices | 
> View Your Tickets 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Matthew D. 
> Hardeman 
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 2:19 PM 
> To: nanog@nanog.org 
> Subject: Best Source for ARIN Region /24 
> 
> I’m looking to buy a /24 of space for a new multi-homed network in the 
> ARIN region. Can anyone out there speak to going rates for a /24 and best 
> places to shop? 
> 

Re: Anonymous Threats

[Josh Reynolds]

Was this intended for the list? It's a bit confusing.
On Jan 10, 2016 9:58 PM, "Andrew Kirch"  wrote:

> I have an idea. Indianapolis Cybercrime should stop playing politics and
> treat people like me who are willing to help, and were hugely successful
> with respect, and not like a mob informant.
> That said, post Snowden, I doubt I would go back... even with Brian Kils
> bullshit.
>
> Andrew D Kirch.
>
>
> On Sunday, January 10, 2016, Eric Rogers  wrote:
>
> > Our local community has recently had threats where the user has a
> > FaceBook profile and is threatening the schools, and several surrounding
> > schools, saying he is going to shoot everyone and blow them up... This
> > is an investigation, but it is getting out of hand.  Several police/FBI
> > raids, but yielded no results, and/or did not catch the right person.
> > He/she is taunting them, local and federal.
> >
> >
> >
> > I would ASSUME he is using some sort of proxy/anonymizer such as TOR or
> > something similar.  Is there any way to sniff for that type of traffic
> > on my network?  I want to make sure that they are not using us as the
> > source.
> >
> >
> >
> > Any thoughts on how to catch this person?  Even if it isn't us, and it
> > is somewhere else I would like to put a stop to it.  Preferably off-list
> > if you do respond...
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
> >
> > Eric Rogers
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > www.pdsconnect.me
> >
> > (317) 831-3000 x200
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: Binge On! - get your umbrellas out, stuff's hitting the fan.

[Tony Finch]

Alan Buxey  wrote:
>
> Bulk data and background update processes are things that could possibly
> by throttled - after all, that's pretty much what QoS does.  Most of my
> phone data is google play software updates and on woes phone ios and
> itunes store updates - it doesn't matter if the update ticks along in
> the background. Audio and video need to be good.

If throttling makes the data transfer take longer then it will hurt
battery life.

Tony.
-- 
f.anthony.n.finch    http://dotat.at/
Biscay, Fitzroy: West veering northwest, gale 8 to storm 10, decreasing 5 to
7. Very rough or high, becoming rough or very rough. Showers, thundery at
first. Good, occasionally poor.

Re: Binge On! - get your umbrellas out, stuff's hitting the fan.

[Doug Barton]

T-Mobile CEO Apologizes For “Offending” EFF And Its Supporters

After an aggressive response to his company, T-Mobile, being called out 
for being anti-Net Neutrality on its new “Binge On” product by the EFF, 
CEO John Legere has backtracked a bit. In case you missed it, he 
flippantly asked “Who the fuck is the EFF?” during a Twitter Q last week.


http://techcrunch.com/2016/01/11/t-mobile-ceo-apologizes-for-offending-eff-and-its-supporters/

Re: Best Source for ARIN Region /24

[Rafael Possamai]

If you apply for an IPv6 block, as an ISP, and you have the intention of
truly utilizing it, then you can apply for a /24 to facilitate that
transition.

It will cost you about $1500 or so, which is about half of what a /24 is
going for in the transfer market.

Thing is, if you take the IPv6 block just to use the /24 they give you,
then one could argue you are cheating the system.



On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Matthew D. Hardeman 
wrote:

> I’m looking to buy a /24 of space for a new multi-homed network in the
> ARIN region.  Can anyone out there speak to going rates for a /24 and best
> places to shop?
>
>

Re: Best Source for ARIN Region /24

[Martin Hannigan]

If you aren't advised to at least analyze the potential to avoid buying and
using v6, you'd be getting bad advice. With that said:

For large blocks, >/16, you're going to want to work with a *reputable*
broker that understands how the market works. The two I am consistent in
pointing to are Addrex and Hilco Streambank. They seem to be both reputable
and knowledgeable. There are many others. You can speak with each  if
necessary and ask about experiences. Being registered with an RIR is not a
requirement to participate in the market as a broker.

For the smallish blocks, < /16, I'd point to the Hilco auction platform.
Appears to be able to process small transactions reliably and you can price
track with the public data. And it's automated.

There are pitfalls when acquiring IPv4 addresses, including whether you
want them to be assets or to be leases. The regions are treating legacy
addresses and transfers differently. V4 addresses are usable globally and
there are enough people here as well as broker knowledge to help you
navigate that as well. Brokers can guide you through these decisions and
which markets to acquire them in based on your needs and objectives, which
RIRs to work with and how to transfer addresses.

I've been recommending folks avoid transferring space from friends. Failed
transactions can be costly in many ways.

YMMV.

Best,

-M<



On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Shon Elliott 
wrote:

> I also am interested in where people are finding blocks of /22 or smaller
> just in case. We have some blocks from Level 3, but eventually, we're going
> to be out.
>
> That being said, we did get our IPv6 /32 allocation from ARIN. If anyone
> has any ideas on how to properly deploy this in an ISP environment, I'd
> love to learn. I've read some whitepapers on the subject, but most of those
> deal with enterprise based networks, and not so much as a service provider.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Shon Elliott, KK6TOO
> unWired Broadband, Inc.
> www.getunwired.com
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 12:11 PM
> To: North American Network Operators' Group 
> Subject: Re: Best Source for ARIN Region /24
>
> Some expansions under my ISP hat may lead to needing some address space,
> so I'd be interested in where people are getting space from as well.
> Smaller blocks, though, /22 and smaller.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Matthew D. Hardeman" 
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 1:19:00 PM
> Subject: Best Source for ARIN Region /24
>
> I’m looking to buy a /24 of space for a new multi-homed network in the
> ARIN region. Can anyone out there speak to going rates for a /24 and best
> places to shop?
>
>
>

Re: Best Source for ARIN Region /24

[Rafael Possamai]

Makes sense. In that case, I think only way out is to go through a broker
to find a suitable party for a transfer. I would read the rules and
regulations regarding transfer of ARIN blocks, they have some details and
the process requires some paperwork.


On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 8:35 PM, Matthew D. Hardeman 
wrote:

> I’m aware of the /24 block for facilitation concept, but my client’s use
> case can qualify as an end-user rather than as an ISP, thus their annual
> operating cost is smaller than even the X-SMALL ISP category, which they’d
> land in — if they opted for the smaller /36 initial IPv6 direct allocation,
> rather than the default /32 direct allocation.
>
> That seems to balance toward buying an existing /24.
>
>
> On Jan 11, 2016, at 8:00 PM, Rafael Possamai 
> wrote:
>
> If you apply for an IPv6 block, as an ISP, and you have the intention of
> truly utilizing it, then you can apply for a /24 to facilitate that
> transition.
>
> It will cost you about $1500 or so, which is about half of what a /24 is
> going for in the transfer market.
>
> Thing is, if you take the IPv6 block just to use the /24 they give you,
> then one could argue you are cheating the system.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Matthew D. Hardeman <
> mharde...@ipifony.com> wrote:
>
>> I’m looking to buy a /24 of space for a new multi-homed network in the
>> ARIN region.  Can anyone out there speak to going rates for a /24 and best
>> places to shop?
>>
>>
>
>

RE: SMS gateways

[frnkblk]

I plan to continue living in a rural area with a GSM provider that will support 
2G. =)

Frank

-Original Message-
From: John Levine [mailto:jo...@iecc.com] 
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2016 5:24 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Cc: frnk...@iname.com
Subject: Re: SMS gateways

In article <006501d14b31$7c478e40$74d6aac0$@iname.com> you write:
>Surprised no one has mentioned the Multimodem iSMS: 
>http://www.multitech.com/brands/multimodem-isms
>
>Been using it for 5+ years -- first three years the code wasn't stable, 
>needing a reboot every few months,
>but the latest code has been stable for 2+ years.

It looked interesting until I got to the part where it says it uses a
2G GSM modem.  AT has said quite firmly that they will turn off
their 2G network in 2017, and press reports say that T-Mobile is
already turning off 2G in favor of LTE.

What do you plan to do instead next year?

Re: Best Source for ARIN Region /24

[Matthew D. Hardeman]

I’m aware of the /24 block for facilitation concept, but my client’s use case 
can qualify as an end-user rather than as an ISP, thus their annual operating 
cost is smaller than even the X-SMALL ISP category, which they’d land in — if 
they opted for the smaller /36 initial IPv6 direct allocation, rather than the 
default /32 direct allocation.

That seems to balance toward buying an existing /24.

> On Jan 11, 2016, at 8:00 PM, Rafael Possamai  wrote:
> 
> If you apply for an IPv6 block, as an ISP, and you have the intention of 
> truly utilizing it, then you can apply for a /24 to facilitate that 
> transition. 
> 
> It will cost you about $1500 or so, which is about half of what a /24 is 
> going for in the transfer market.
> 
> Thing is, if you take the IPv6 block just to use the /24 they give you, then 
> one could argue you are cheating the system.
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Matthew D. Hardeman  > wrote:
> I’m looking to buy a /24 of space for a new multi-homed network in the ARIN 
> region.  Can anyone out there speak to going rates for a /24 and best places 
> to shop?
> 
> 



smime.p7s
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Re: Best Source for ARIN Region /24

[Jeremy Austin]

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 11:10 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Some expansions under my ISP hat may lead to needing some address space,
> so I'd be interested in where people are getting space from as well.
> Smaller blocks, though, /22 and smaller.
>

Me too, but "will" instead of "may".

Jeremy Austin

Re: Looking for Yahoo eMail contact

[Valdis . Kletnieks]

On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 12:25:17 +, Marc Storck said:
> I'm looking for a Yahoo email administrator who could contact me offlist.

> Error: "421 4.7.1 [TS03] All messages from x.x.x.x permanently deferred"

If you find one, tell them to go look up the difference between 4xx and 5xx
return codes. :)


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Re: GPON vs. GEPON

[Mark Tinka]

On 9/Jan/16 08:45, Josh Reynolds wrote:

>
> There's a reason Google did 16 way splits, and yes, we have two paths we
> are looking at for NG-PON2. One with Calix, another with another vendor.

At previous job, we did 24x splits to guarantee 100Mbps to each home; up
to 50Mbps for Internet Access, 26Mbps for two 1080p IPTV HD streams, and
another 24Mbps for margin (which covered VoIP).

At present job, we'll stick with Active-E.

Mark.

Re: Another Big day for IPv6 - 10% native penetration

[Sander Steffann]

Hi Vint,

> Op 11 jan. 2016, om 12:47 heeft Vint Cerf  het volgende 
> geschreven:
> 
> since google is a major implementor of IPv6, some people might claim this is 
> an attempt to artificially inflate scores for Google sites. Sigh.

Sigh indeed. On the other hand: IPv6 is getting enough traction that it can't 
be considered a "Google thing".

A thought: Maybe Google could announce that because of the increasing scarcity 
of IPv4 addresses and the rise of global IPv6 deployment Google is considering 
to start taking IPv6 reachability into account later this year. That would give 
the possibility for Google to watch how people respond before actually changing 
anything, it would take away some arguments of those that blame Google for 
artificially inflating scores (they have been warned long in advance) and it 
would make SEO companies more aware of IPv6 so they can start pushing the ISPs 
and hosters to support IPv6.

Google already provides webmaster tools. Maybe showing a warning for websites 
that aren't reachable over IPv6 (or even worse: that have completely different 
content on IPv6) would be nice. Even if IPv6 reachability doesn't affect the 
page rank (yet) the number of users with IPv6+IPv4-CGN is growing so enabling 
IPv6 will have a positive impact on a growing number of eyeballs (see 
Facebook's experience with IPv6 performance). Showing warning messages on 
Google Webmaster Tools when the site is not reachable over IPv6 (and error 
messages when the IPv4 content is very different from the IPv6 content) would 
be nice.

Even if Google gets so much pushback that they decide not to go forward with 
this at this point in time it might already cause some good awareness for IPv6.

Even though IPv6 is growing all over the world I still think Google doing 
something like this would help a lot.

Cheers,
Sander



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Looking for Yahoo eMail contact

[Marc Storck]

Hello,

I’m looking for a Yahoo email administrator who could contact me offlist.

I have a customer with a clean record that is getting thsi error:

Error: "421 4.7.1 [TS03] All messages from x.x.x.x permanently deferred" when 
sending email to Yahoo

The customer is a local non-profit and sends a very limited amount of emails to 
members, suppliers and other contacts. Mailing-lists are only used to contact 
members of the NPO.

I checked the recommendation listed at
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/postmaster/SLN3436.html

and checked his IP address on several “multi-rbl” lookup sites. All looks clean.

So I need more input to understand what we need to correct.

Thank you very much in advance.

Best regards,

Marc




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Re: Another Big day for IPv6 - 10% native penetration

[Sander Steffann]

> Op 11 jan. 2016, om 15:05 heeft Vint Cerf  het volgende 
> geschreven:
> 
> sounds like the Federal Reserve testing the waters with hints of increasing 
> discount rate...

:)



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[TECH] PPPoE server on ASR 920

[Nicolas Even]

Hi.

I need some help. I hope some of you are able to help me :)


I configured a pppoe server on a brand new asr 920 plateform (advanced
metro ip access) but it's not working.

My set up is trivial :

1/ Add a bba-group and a virtual template :

bba-group pppoe BBAPPPOE
 virtual-template 1
 sessions per-mac limit 2

interface Virtual-Template1
 ip unnumbered Loopback0
 no peer default ip address
 ppp authentication pap CPE_USER

2/ Then, configure the Radius :

aaa group server radius
 server auth-port 1812 acct-port 1813
 ip radius source-interface Loopback0
!
aaa authentication ppp CPE_USER group 
aaa authorization network default group removed>

radius-server host auth-port 1812 acct-port 1813 key 7 

3/ Finally, I configured an interface accepting pppoe :

interface GigabitEthernet0/0/4
 description TEST-PPPOE
 no ip address
 media-type rj45
 negotiation auto
 pppoe enable group BBAPPPOE

A router, plugged on the interface Gi 0/0/4, is sending pado packets but
ASR920 is not seeing these packets :

Counters does not increment, debug says nothing.

ASR920-ALE-1#sh pppoe statistics

But I can see input packets with

ASR920-ALE-1# sh interfaces Gi 0/0/4

Has anyone have experience with  pppoe server on a ASR920 ?

Thanks a lot :)

Nicolas.

IPv6 Implementation and CPE Behavior

[Graham Johnston]

Hi nanog,

We are little behind in our IPv6 rollout are pushing to make big strides by the 
end of Q2.  We have all of our core network and primary infrastructure 
dual-stack enabled at this point and our next step will be to move to 
dual-stack on our CMTSs.  For those retail operators that have enabled 
dual-stack can you comment on behavior that you observed from customer CPE 
equipment after flipping the switch?  Are most CPE devices generally not IPv6 
capable in the first place?  For those that are capable are they usually still 
configured with IPv6 disabled, requiring the customer to enable it?  For those 
CPE that are capable and enabled, is there a common configuration such as full 
blown DHCPv6 with PD?

For those that are responding I am primarily concerned about customer routers.  
I have followed the many discussions about Android phones that don't perform 
DHCPv6, and I am really concerned about these kind of issues as these devices 
basically won't be seen at the edge of the customer's network.

If you have something else that you think is noteworthy, I'm all ears.

Thanks,
Graham Johnston
Network Planner
Westman Communications Group
204.717.2829
johnst...@westmancom.com
P think green; don't print this email.

Re: Looking for Yahoo eMail contact

[Elizabeth Zwicky via NANOG]

http://postmaster.yahoo.com, click on "Contact Us" at the top since your 
question isn't one of the giant ones in the middle of the page.
Elizabeth Zwicky 

On Monday, January 11, 2016 4:28 AM, Marc Storck  
wrote:
 

 Hello,

I’m looking for a Yahoo email administrator who could contact me offlist.

I have a customer with a clean record that is getting thsi error:

Error: "421 4.7.1 [TS03] All messages from x.x.x.x permanently deferred" when 
sending email to Yahoo

The customer is a local non-profit and sends a very limited amount of emails to 
members, suppliers and other contacts. Mailing-lists are only used to contact 
members of the NPO.

I checked the recommendation listed at
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/postmaster/SLN3436.html

and checked his IP address on several “multi-rbl” lookup sites. All looks clean.

So I need more input to understand what we need to correct.

Thank you very much in advance.

Best regards,

Marc

Re: Nat

[Lee Howard]

On 1/7/16, 7:39 PM, "NANOG on behalf of Doug Barton"
 wrote:

>On 12/18/2015 01:20 PM, Lee Howard wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 12/17/15, 1:59 PM, "NANOG on behalf of Matthew Petach"
>
>>> I'm still waiting for the IETF to come around
>>> to allowing feature parity between IPv4 and IPv6
>>> when it comes to DHCP.  The stance of not
>>> allowing the DHCP server to assign a default
>>> gateway to the host in IPv6 is a big stumbling
>>> point for at least one large enterprise I'm aware
>>> of.
>>
>>
>> Tell me again why you want this, and not routing information from the
>> router?
>
>C'mon Lee, stop pretending that you're interested in the answer to this
>question, and wasting everyone's time in the process. You know the
>answers, just as well as the people who would give them.

I’m flattered that you think I know so much.

Jared gave a useful reply, and I’m doing research before writing an
internet-draft.  


>
>>> Right now, the biggest obstacle to IPv6
>>> deployment seems to be the ivory-tower types
>>> in the IETF that want to keep it pristine, vs
>>> allowing it to work in the real world.
>>
>> There¹s a mix of people at IETF, but more operator input there would be
>> helpful. I have a particular draft in mind that is stuck between ³we¹d
>> rather delay IPv6 than do it wrong² and ³be realistic about how people
>> will deploy it."
>
>On this topic the operator input has been clear for over a decade, and
>yet the purists have blocked progress this whole time. The biggest
>roadblock to IPv6 deployment are its most ardent "supporters."

I don’t think IPv6 evangelists are in the way.
I do think many enterprises don’t care about IPv6, and no protocol changes
will make a difference. Some enterprise administrators wouldn’t mind
deploying IPv6 as long as they don’t have to think about it. I think this
is foolish: deploying a new Internet Protocol will not be simpler than
deploying a new Spanning Tree or a new routing protocol.
There are also enterprise administrators who have technical concerns;
those are the ones I want to help.

Lee

Re: IPv6 Implementation and CPE Behavior

[Tarko Tikan]

hey,


Are most CPE devices generally not IPv6 capable in the first place?  For those 
that are capable are they usually still configured with IPv6 disabled, 
requiring the customer to enable it?  For those CPE that are capable and 
enabled, is there a common configuration such as full blown DHCPv6 with PD?


In my experience, IPv6 is mostly disabled. But this will vary from 
region to region due to different vendors on the market.


When IPv6 is already enabled, it mostly is DHCPv6 PD, otherways it'll 
not really make sense as CPE. Some routers will also need M-bit set in 
the RA, others will just blindly do DHCPv6.


But it tends to be PD _and_ NA, NA can or can not be annoying depending 
on your network setup.


We have also seen issues with DHCP timers, make sure you have a way to 
protect your DHCP servers and relays when CPE starts sending out request 
every millisecond.


--
tarko

Re: Binge On! - get your umbrellas out, stuff's hitting the fan.

[Jeremy Austin]

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
> For $x/month you get Y GB of LTE speed data and after that you drop to
> 128kbps.
>
> You don’t pay an overage charge, but your data slows way down.
>
> If you want to make it fast again, you can for $reasonable purchase
> additional
> data within that month on a one-time basis.
>
> I would like to encourage other carriers to adopt this model, actually. If
> Verizon had a model like this, I would probably switch tomorrow assuming
> their prices weren’t too far out of line compared to T-Mo.
>
>
This is similar to Hughesnet's FAP (unfortunately named Fair Access Policy).

I've had some consumer success with this model. There are other fairness
models that can augment it, however; it's not my favorite.


> >
> > The Internet (from the non-eyeball side) is designed around a
> free-feeding
> > usage model. Can you imagine if the App store of your choice showed two
> > prices, one for the app and one for the download? The permission-based
> > model on Android would have requests like, "This app is likely to cost
> you
> > $4/week. Is this OK?”
>
> Kind of an interesting idea, but to me, the reason usage charges induce
> stress has ore to do with the fact that they are kind of out of control
> pricey first of all and second of all that you start incurring them without
> warning and without any real ability to say no on most networks.
>
> That’s why I actually like the T-Mo strategy here. With existing tools,
> the customer has full choice and control about “overage” costs even if
> their data usage remains somewhat opaque.
>

>From what I understand, the controversy around T-Mo is that the technique
itself was opaque, correct? If the Internet as a whole *had* an "SD" knob,
like Netflix on AppleTV/etc., usage-billed customers would benefit — as
long as it was plainly spelled out.


>
>
> > In addition, let's say I know of an ISP that makes 10% of its revenue
> from
> > overage charges. Moving to a purely usage-based model would lower ACR, as
> > it would have to charge a more reasonable price/gig; that top 10% of
> users
> > won't replace the lost revenue. So even providers may have little
> incentive
> > to change models, particularly if they have a vested interest in
> inhibiting
> > the growth of video or usage in general.
>
> How can an ISP make 10% of its money from overage charges unless they are
> doing usage-based billing? If you’ve got an AYCE plan, you don’t have
> overages. If you don’t, then you have some form of usage based billing.
>
> The varieties of usage based billing that are available are a far less
> interesting exercise.
>
> Owen
>
>
On a continuum, AYCE at one end, pay-by-the-bit at the other, and in
between, usage caps. For the majority of customers on $provider network,
caps are unnecessary; for them, the flat rate they pay is effectively an
AYCE. Smaller stomachs, and they are paying a higher $/bit as they use
less. Those who incur overages are experiencing usage-based billing.

I agree it is uninteresting, but there it is.

How much uncapped LTE spectrum is needed before we can hit that 2Mbps per
customer referred to recently?

Re: Binge On! - get your umbrellas out, stuff's hitting the fan.

[Owen DeLong]

> On Jan 11, 2016, at 10:00 , Jeremy Austin  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Owen DeLong  > wrote:
> 
> For $x/month you get Y GB of LTE speed data and after that you drop to 
> 128kbps.
> 
> You don’t pay an overage charge, but your data slows way down.
> 
> If you want to make it fast again, you can for $reasonable purchase additional
> data within that month on a one-time basis.
> 
> I would like to encourage other carriers to adopt this model, actually. If
> Verizon had a model like this, I would probably switch tomorrow assuming
> their prices weren’t too far out of line compared to T-Mo.
> 
> 
> This is similar to Hughesnet's FAP (unfortunately named Fair Access Policy).
> 
> I've had some consumer success with this model. There are other fairness 
> models that can augment it, however; it's not my favorite.

What is your favorite?

>  
> >
> > The Internet (from the non-eyeball side) is designed around a free-feeding
> > usage model. Can you imagine if the App store of your choice showed two
> > prices, one for the app and one for the download? The permission-based
> > model on Android would have requests like, "This app is likely to cost you
> > $4/week. Is this OK?”
> 
> Kind of an interesting idea, but to me, the reason usage charges induce
> stress has ore to do with the fact that they are kind of out of control
> pricey first of all and second of all that you start incurring them without
> warning and without any real ability to say no on most networks.
> 
> That’s why I actually like the T-Mo strategy here. With existing tools,
> the customer has full choice and control about “overage” costs even if
> their data usage remains somewhat opaque.
> 
> From what I understand, the controversy around T-Mo is that the technique 
> itself was opaque, correct? If the Internet as a whole *had* an "SD" knob, 
> like Netflix on AppleTV/etc., usage-billed customers would benefit — as long 
> as it was plainly spelled out.

Yes… And I’m in line criticizing T-Mobile for this. However, when it comes to 
the pricing model for data overages, there’s is the best I’ve seen yet.

>  
> 
> 
> > In addition, let's say I know of an ISP that makes 10% of its revenue from
> > overage charges. Moving to a purely usage-based model would lower ACR, as
> > it would have to charge a more reasonable price/gig; that top 10% of users
> > won't replace the lost revenue. So even providers may have little incentive
> > to change models, particularly if they have a vested interest in inhibiting
> > the growth of video or usage in general.
> 
> How can an ISP make 10% of its money from overage charges unless they are
> doing usage-based billing? If you’ve got an AYCE plan, you don’t have
> overages. If you don’t, then you have some form of usage based billing.
> 
> The varieties of usage based billing that are available are a far less
> interesting exercise.
> 
> Owen
> 
> 
> On a continuum, AYCE at one end, pay-by-the-bit at the other, and in between, 
> usage caps. For the majority of customers on $provider network, caps are 
> unnecessary; for them, the flat rate they pay is effectively an AYCE. Smaller 
> stomachs, and they are paying a higher $/bit as they use less. Those who 
> incur overages are experiencing usage-based billing.

Another term for usage caps is “usage tiers” where you select a tier that you 
live in and you pay a fine if you exceed your usage tier.

However, as I said, I consider everything to the right of AYCE on your 
“continuum” to be simply variations of usage-based billing.

Sure, to a consumer who stays within their usage tier, their tier looks like 
AYCE (until it doesn’t), but it certainly isn’t actually.

> 
> I agree it is uninteresting, but there it is.
> 
> How much uncapped LTE spectrum is needed before we can hit that 2Mbps per 
> customer referred to recently?

I would assume quite a bit. There are 7 billion potential subscribers, so 
that’s 14 billion Mbps or 14 Petabits per second world wide.

Owen

Re: Binge On! - get your umbrellas out, stuff's hitting the fan.

[Jeremy Austin]

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 9:15 AM, Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
>
>>
>>
> This is similar to Hughesnet's FAP (unfortunately named Fair Access
> Policy).
>
> I've had some consumer success with this model. There are other fairness
> models that can augment it, however; it's not my favorite.
>
>
> What is your favorite?
>

Does a dog have the Buddha nature?

My favorite is actually having enough bandwidth to meet demand. What a
concept. Ought to work for terrestrial; where we run out of
spectrum/bandwidth is in shared-medium last-mile.

Pre-Title II classification, I had excellent success with per-flow
equalization/fairness, but this is expensive and makes bandwidth guarantees
difficult to manage.

After, I've also had success with a) maintaining sane oversubscription
ratios and b) using per-customer-class fairness balancing, and c) some
experimentation with FQ-CODEL, although this is less neutral and still a
gray area — at least until I understand it better.



>
>
> However, as I said, I consider everything to the right of AYCE on your
> “continuum” to be simply variations of usage-based billing.
>
> Sure, to a consumer who stays within their usage tier, their tier looks
> like AYCE (until it doesn’t), but it certainly isn’t actually.
>

I agree.


>
>
>
> How much uncapped LTE spectrum is needed before we can hit that 2Mbps per
> customer referred to recently?
>
>
> I would assume quite a bit. There are 7 billion potential subscribers, so
> that’s 14 billion Mbps or 14 Petabits per second world wide.
>

Heh. Gary said it better — it's about user density. All 7 billion aren't on
one set of sectors.

The architecture for "repeaters", as Gary pointed out, is suboptimal, which
is why we rely so heavily on Wifi, and why the WISP world is up in arms
over LTE-U. Or so it seems to me.

And NYC is just now getting wifi in the tunnels?

I apologize if this has grown off-topic.

Re: Binge On! - get your umbrellas out, stuff's hitting the fan.

[Jeremy Austin]

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 9:40 AM, Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
>
>
> My favorite is actually having enough bandwidth to meet demand. What a
> concept. Ought to work for terrestrial; where we run out of
> spectrum/bandwidth is in shared-medium last-mile.
>
>
> That’s not a billing model… We were talking about billing models.
>
> What’s your favorite billing model?
>

Heh. I had said "fairness" — perhaps we both support unfair billing but
fair supply?

Two sides of the same tarnished coin, supply and demand.

Which model I prefer… Diogenes, when asked what kind of wine he liked best,
replied "The wine of others."

As a user in that top 10%, I like my bandwidth subsidized by my unwitting
peers. As an ISP, I'm managing to sell it AYCE, but I'm small potatoes. My
opinions are my own but largely informed by what I observe for customer
satisfaction, contrasting models in an uncompetitive market.

Re: IPv6 Implementation and CPE Behavior

[Owen DeLong]

> On Jan 11, 2016, at 10:23 , James R Cutler  
> wrote:
> 
>> On Jan 11, 2016, at 12:01 PM, Graham Johnston  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Are most CPE devices generally not IPv6 capable in the first place?  For 
>> those that are capable are they usually still configured with IPv6 disabled, 
>> requiring the customer to enable it?  For those CPE that are capable and 
>> enabled, is there a common configuration such as full blown DHCPv6 with PD?
> 
> I can’t speak regarding “most CPE devices” but for CPE = Apple Airport Extreme
> 
>   • At least since the AirPort Extreme 802.11n (AirPort5,117) was 
> released in 2011, the hardware has supported native IPv6 routing and 
> acceptance of PD from the WAN.
> 
>   • The default configuration for firmware 7.7.3 is automatic WAN IPv6 
> configuration, native IPv6 routing, and, acceptance of PD from the WAN. End 
> systems on the single LAN receive a /64.

To be more clear… The LAN receives a /64 from which end systems are able to 
construct one or more end system addresses using SLAAC.

> 
>   • No DHCPv6 is provided to the LAN through firmware up to the current 
> version 7.7.3. 
> 

The good news is that RDNSS is allegedly supported in recent firmware releases.

Owen

Re: Binge On! - get your umbrellas out, stuff's hitting the fan.

[Owen DeLong]

> On Jan 11, 2016, at 10:31 , Jeremy Austin  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 9:15 AM, Owen DeLong  > wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This is similar to Hughesnet's FAP (unfortunately named Fair Access Policy).
>> 
>> I've had some consumer success with this model. There are other fairness 
>> models that can augment it, however; it's not my favorite.
> 
> What is your favorite?
> 
> Does a dog have the Buddha nature?
> 
> My favorite is actually having enough bandwidth to meet demand. What a 
> concept. Ought to work for terrestrial; where we run out of 
> spectrum/bandwidth is in shared-medium last-mile. 

That’s not a billing model… We were talking about billing models.

What’s your favorite billing model?

> Pre-Title II classification, I had excellent success with per-flow 
> equalization/fairness, but this is expensive and makes bandwidth guarantees 
> difficult to manage. 
> 
> After, I've also had success with a) maintaining sane oversubscription ratios 
> and b) using per-customer-class fairness balancing, and c) some 
> experimentation with FQ-CODEL, although this is less neutral and still a gray 
> area — at least until I understand it better.

Again, we are apparently talking apples and oranges. I’m talking about billing 
models and you’re talking about service delivery techniques.

> However, as I said, I consider everything to the right of AYCE on your 
> “continuum” to be simply variations of usage-based billing.
> 
> Sure, to a consumer who stays within their usage tier, their tier looks like 
> AYCE (until it doesn’t), but it certainly isn’t actually.
> 
> I agree.
>  
> 
>> 
>> 
>> How much uncapped LTE spectrum is needed before we can hit that 2Mbps per 
>> customer referred to recently?
> 
> I would assume quite a bit. There are 7 billion potential subscribers, so 
> that’s 14 billion Mbps or 14 Petabits per second world wide.
> 
> Heh. Gary said it better — it's about user density. All 7 billion aren't on 
> one set of sectors.
> 
> The architecture for "repeaters", as Gary pointed out, is suboptimal, which 
> is why we rely so heavily on Wifi, and why the WISP world is up in arms over 
> LTE-U. Or so it seems to me.
> 
> And NYC is just now getting wifi in the tunnels?
> 
> I apologize if this has grown off-topic.

Meh, most useful threads wander significantly.

Owen

Re: IPv6 Implementation and CPE Behavior

[James R Cutler]

> On Jan 11, 2016, at 12:01 PM, Graham Johnston  
> wrote:
> 
> Are most CPE devices generally not IPv6 capable in the first place?  For 
> those that are capable are they usually still configured with IPv6 disabled, 
> requiring the customer to enable it?  For those CPE that are capable and 
> enabled, is there a common configuration such as full blown DHCPv6 with PD?

I can’t speak regarding “most CPE devices” but for CPE = Apple Airport Extreme

• At least since the AirPort Extreme 802.11n (AirPort5,117) was 
released in 2011, the hardware has supported native IPv6 routing and acceptance 
of PD from the WAN.

• The default configuration for firmware 7.7.3 is automatic WAN IPv6 
configuration, native IPv6 routing, and, acceptance of PD from the WAN. End 
systems on the single LAN receive a /64.

• No DHCPv6 is provided to the LAN through firmware up to the current 
version 7.7.3. 

For all recent Windows, OS X, and. IOS versions, IPv6 “just works” with the 
Airport default IPv6 configuration. Most users can not tell the difference. 

For those connected to ISPs that still can’t spell IPv6, I do manually set 
Internet Options to Configure IPv6: Link-local only. This should not make any 
difference, but it makes me and some eyeballs happier.

James R. Cutler
james.cut...@consultant.com
PGP keys at http://pgp.mit.edu

Best Source for ARIN Region /24

[Matthew D. Hardeman]

I’m looking to buy a /24 of space for a new multi-homed network in the ARIN 
region.  Can anyone out there speak to going rates for a /24 and best places to 
shop?



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

RE: Best Source for ARIN Region /24

[Ray Orsini]

Ditto here. Seems like Matthew beat me to the question

Regards,
Ray Orsini – CEO
Orsini IT, LLC – Technology Consultants
VOICE DATA  BANDWIDTH  SECURITY  SUPPORT
P: 305.967.6756 x1009   E: r...@orsiniit.com   TF: 844.OIT.VOIP
7900 NW 155th Street, Suite 103, Miami Lakes, FL 33016
http://www.orsiniit.com | View My Calendar | View/Pay Your Invoices | View
Your Tickets




-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Matthew D.
Hardeman
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 2:19 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Best Source for ARIN Region /24

I’m looking to buy a /24 of space for a new multi-homed network in the ARIN
region.  Can anyone out there speak to going rates for a /24 and best places
to shop?

Re: Looking for Yahoo eMail contact

[Bjørn Mork]

Elizabeth Zwicky via NANOG  writes:

> "permanently deferred"

Does not compute :)


Bjørn

Re: Best Source for ARIN Region /24

[Matthew D. Hardeman]

So far, some of the off-list responses that I’ve seen from my inquiry are 
beating out the pricing that shows on Hilco Streambank’s site.


> On Jan 11, 2016, at 2:01 PM, Christopher Dye  wrote:
> 
> I just paid way too much from Hilco Streambank on Auction. I think I ended up 
> spending about $2500 + ARIN fees (but I really needed it). 
> www.ipv4auctions.com
> 
> Christopher Dye
> Chief Technology Officer
> Paragon Solutions Group, Inc. 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Ray Orsini
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 1:22 PM
> To: Matthew D. Hardeman ; nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: RE: Best Source for ARIN Region /24
> 
> Ditto here. Seems like Matthew beat me to the question
> 
> Regards,
> Ray Orsini – CEO
> Orsini IT, LLC – Technology Consultants
> VOICE DATA  BANDWIDTH  SECURITY  SUPPORT
> P: 305.967.6756 x1009   E: r...@orsiniit.com   TF: 844.OIT.VOIP
> 7900 NW 155th Street, Suite 103, Miami Lakes, FL 33016 
> http://www.orsiniit.com | View My Calendar | View/Pay Your Invoices | View 
> Your Tickets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Matthew D.
> Hardeman
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 2:19 PM
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Best Source for ARIN Region /24
> 
> I’m looking to buy a /24 of space for a new multi-homed network in the ARIN 
> region.  Can anyone out there speak to going rates for a /24 and best places 
> to shop?



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: Binge On! - get your umbrellas out, stuff's hitting the fan.

[Owen DeLong]

> On Jan 11, 2016, at 11:07 , Jeremy Austin  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 9:40 AM, Owen DeLong  > wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> My favorite is actually having enough bandwidth to meet demand. What a 
>> concept. Ought to work for terrestrial; where we run out of 
>> spectrum/bandwidth is in shared-medium last-mile. 
> 
> That’s not a billing model… We were talking about billing models.
> 
> What’s your favorite billing model?
> 
> Heh. I had said "fairness" — perhaps we both support unfair billing but fair 
> supply? 
> 
> Two sides of the same tarnished coin, supply and demand.
> 
> Which model I prefer… Diogenes, when asked what kind of wine he liked best, 
> replied "The wine of others."
> 
> As a user in that top 10%, I like my bandwidth subsidized by my unwitting 
> peers. As an ISP, I'm managing to sell it AYCE, but I'm small potatoes. My 
> opinions are my own but largely informed by what I observe for customer 
> satisfaction, contrasting models in an uncompetitive market.

As another user in that top 10%, I don’t mind paying the freight for the data I 
use and I pay the extra $30/month for an unlimited plan vs. the lower tiers at 
lower prices.

OTOH, the other 4 lines on my account as lesser users, I’m accepting the free 
1GB of LTE and then they run at 128k for the rest of the month. Two of these 
lines, however, are in the hands of teenagers, so I’m not willing to risk 
having to pay exhorbitant overage fees if they go over.

That’s what keeps me on T-Mo at the moment. There’s no way to get on Verizon 
and not take an overage risk (short of just paying up front for huge amounts of 
data every month).

With T-Mo, when they run out of data, they run out of fast data, but stuff 
doesn’t completely break. That’s a very nice solution for my niche.

Owen

RE: Best Source for ARIN Region /24

[Christopher Dye]

I just paid way too much from Hilco Streambank on Auction. I think I ended up 
spending about $2500 + ARIN fees (but I really needed it). www.ipv4auctions.com

Christopher Dye
Chief Technology Officer
Paragon Solutions Group, Inc. 

-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Ray Orsini
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 1:22 PM
To: Matthew D. Hardeman ; nanog@nanog.org
Subject: RE: Best Source for ARIN Region /24

Ditto here. Seems like Matthew beat me to the question

Regards,
Ray Orsini – CEO
Orsini IT, LLC – Technology Consultants
VOICE DATA  BANDWIDTH  SECURITY  SUPPORT
P: 305.967.6756 x1009   E: r...@orsiniit.com   TF: 844.OIT.VOIP
7900 NW 155th Street, Suite 103, Miami Lakes, FL 33016 http://www.orsiniit.com 
| View My Calendar | View/Pay Your Invoices | View Your Tickets




-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Matthew D.
Hardeman
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 2:19 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Best Source for ARIN Region /24

I’m looking to buy a /24 of space for a new multi-homed network in the ARIN 
region.  Can anyone out there speak to going rates for a /24 and best places to 
shop?


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: Best Source for ARIN Region /24

[Mike Hammett]

Some expansions under my ISP hat may lead to needing some address space, so I'd 
be interested in where people are getting space from as well. Smaller blocks, 
though, /22 and smaller. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 


- Original Message -

From: "Matthew D. Hardeman"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 1:19:00 PM 
Subject: Best Source for ARIN Region /24 

I’m looking to buy a /24 of space for a new multi-homed network in the ARIN 
region. Can anyone out there speak to going rates for a /24 and best places to 
shop?