Re: Mx204 alternative

[Randy Carpenter]

If you don't require redundant routing engines, there is nothing from Juniper 
that will cost less and have the capacity you require. In fact, there really 
aren't any cheaper MX options at all, other than the kneecapped MX80 and MX104 
variants. MX204 is really a nice box. I only wish they had a redundant version. 

Is price your only concern with the MX204? You might not need the full blown -R 
or -IR version, so the list price would only be ~$45K. 

I'm not too familiar with other vendors, so I'll leave that to others. 

thanks, 
-Randy 

- On Aug 7, 2019, at 11:02 PM, Mehmet Akcin  wrote: 

> Greetings,

> I am looking for some suggestions on alternatives to mx204.

> Any recommendations on something more affordable which can handle full routing
> tables from two providers?

> Prefer Juniper but happy to look alternatives.
> Min 6-8 10G ports are required
> 1G support required

> Thanks in advance!

> Mehmet
> --
> Mehmet
> +1-424-298-1903

Re: Mx204 alternative

[Rubens Kuhl]

If it's not for an US company, then a Huawei NE-20 could be in order. The
entry model fits 2U.


Rubens




On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 12:04 AM Mehmet Akcin  wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> I am looking for some suggestions on alternatives to mx204.
>
> Any recommendations on something more affordable which can handle full
> routing tables from two providers?
>
> Prefer Juniper but happy to look alternatives.
> Min 6-8 10G ports are required
> 1G support required
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Mehmet
> --
> Mehmet
> +1-424-298-1903
>

Re: Mx204 alternative

[Mehmet Akcin]

Thank you! Very useful

Certainly i have concerns about the software as well

On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 8:35 PM Brandon Martin 
wrote:

> On 8/7/19 11:02 PM, Mehmet Akcin wrote:
> > I am looking for some suggestions on alternatives to mx204.
> >
> > Any recommendations on something more affordable which can handle full
> > routing tables from two providers?
> >
> > Prefer Juniper but happy to look alternatives.
> > Min 6-8 10G ports are required
> > 1G support required
>
> Extreme (ex Brocade) SLX9540 will do full tables from a couple providers
> in a local edge scenario with their "OptiScale" FIB optimization/route
> caching, but the whole FIB won't fit in hardware.  Bandwidth is very
> generous (up to 48x10G + 6x100G), and prices are reasonable.  You
> wouldn't need any of the stupid port licenses, just the advanced feature
> license, so it should be about 25-40% more than an MX204 based on public
> pricing I've seen.  That would get you 24x10G + 24x1G (the rest of the
> hardware is all there just locked out).
>
> The SLX9650 will supposedly (if marketing and my SEs are to believed) do
> 4M IPv4 in hardware FIB, less if you want IPv6, too but still full
> tables of both with ample room for L2 MACs, next-hops, and MPLS.
> Bandwidth is, well, "Extreme" at I think 24x25G + 12x100G (25G breakout
> capable, all 25G also capable of 1G/10G).  Pricing is supposedly "about
> double" a 9540.
>
> Be advised that the control plane SOFTWARE is NOT as mature as JunOS.
> It's being built up rapidly, but there's still a lot of stuff missing.
> I have not, so far, run into any of the weird glitches that I've seen on
> older Foundry/Brocade products, though, so that's good.  There's also no
> oddball restrictions about port provisioning like the MX204 has.
> Control plane HARDWARE is well more than capable with something like
> 16GB (or maybe 32?) of RAM and a Xeon CPU.  There's actually a fully
> supported option for a guest VM for local analytics, SDN, etc. in remote
> scenarios.
>
> If you just want to push packets, they're nice boxes.  If you want "high
> touch" service provider features, I think you may find them lacking.
> They're worth looking at, though, if only because of the
> price/performance ratio.
>
> Arista has some similar boxes with similar caveats in terms of infantile
> software.
>
> MX204 is a very nice pizza box router for service providers.  I'm not
> aware of anything quite like it in terms of having a mature control
> plane.  I like the JunOS config language better than Cisco-style that
> most other folks use.
> --
> Brandon Martin
>
-- 
Mehmet
+1-424-298-1903

Re: Mx204 alternative

[Brandon Martin]

On 8/7/19 11:02 PM, Mehmet Akcin wrote:

I am looking for some suggestions on alternatives to mx204.

Any recommendations on something more affordable which can handle full 
routing tables from two providers?


Prefer Juniper but happy to look alternatives.
Min 6-8 10G ports are required
1G support required


Extreme (ex Brocade) SLX9540 will do full tables from a couple providers 
in a local edge scenario with their "OptiScale" FIB optimization/route 
caching, but the whole FIB won't fit in hardware.  Bandwidth is very 
generous (up to 48x10G + 6x100G), and prices are reasonable.  You 
wouldn't need any of the stupid port licenses, just the advanced feature 
license, so it should be about 25-40% more than an MX204 based on public 
pricing I've seen.  That would get you 24x10G + 24x1G (the rest of the 
hardware is all there just locked out).


The SLX9650 will supposedly (if marketing and my SEs are to believed) do 
4M IPv4 in hardware FIB, less if you want IPv6, too but still full 
tables of both with ample room for L2 MACs, next-hops, and MPLS. 
Bandwidth is, well, "Extreme" at I think 24x25G + 12x100G (25G breakout 
capable, all 25G also capable of 1G/10G).  Pricing is supposedly "about 
double" a 9540.


Be advised that the control plane SOFTWARE is NOT as mature as JunOS. 
It's being built up rapidly, but there's still a lot of stuff missing. 
I have not, so far, run into any of the weird glitches that I've seen on 
older Foundry/Brocade products, though, so that's good.  There's also no 
oddball restrictions about port provisioning like the MX204 has. 
Control plane HARDWARE is well more than capable with something like 
16GB (or maybe 32?) of RAM and a Xeon CPU.  There's actually a fully 
supported option for a guest VM for local analytics, SDN, etc. in remote 
scenarios.


If you just want to push packets, they're nice boxes.  If you want "high 
touch" service provider features, I think you may find them lacking. 
They're worth looking at, though, if only because of the 
price/performance ratio.


Arista has some similar boxes with similar caveats in terms of infantile 
software.


MX204 is a very nice pizza box router for service providers.  I'm not 
aware of anything quite like it in terms of having a mature control 
plane.  I like the JunOS config language better than Cisco-style that 
most other folks use.

--
Brandon Martin

RE: Mx204 alternative

[Tony Wicks]

It’s a bit more expensive and higher capability (1.2tb vs 400G) than the MX204. 
But the form factor and capability is very impressive for a little box.

 

From: Mehmet Akcin  
Sent: Thursday, 8 August 2019 3:30 PM
To: Tony Wicks 
Cc: nanog 
Subject: Re: Mx204 alternative

 

Thank you! Something within 2U (max) form factor :)

 

On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 8:23 PM Tony Wicks mailto:t...@wicks.co.nz> > wrote:

Nokia 7750 sr-1.

 

 

From: NANOG mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org> > On 
Behalf Of Mehmet Akcin
Sent: Thursday, 8 August 2019 3:03 PM
To: nanog mailto:nanog@nanog.org> >
Subject: Mx204 alternative

 

Greetings,

 

I am looking for some suggestions on alternatives to mx204. 

 

Any recommendations on something more affordable which can handle full routing 
tables from two providers?

 

Prefer Juniper but happy to look alternatives.

Min 6-8 10G ports are required

1G support required

 

Thanks in advance! 

 

Mehmet

-- 

Mehmet
+1-424-298-1903

-- 

Mehmet
+1-424-298-1903

Re: Mx204 alternative

[Mehmet Akcin]

Thank you! Something within 2U (max) form factor :)

On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 8:23 PM Tony Wicks  wrote:

> Nokia 7750 sr-1.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* NANOG  *On Behalf Of *Mehmet Akcin
> *Sent:* Thursday, 8 August 2019 3:03 PM
> *To:* nanog 
> *Subject:* Mx204 alternative
>
>
>
> Greetings,
>
>
>
> I am looking for some suggestions on alternatives to mx204.
>
>
>
> Any recommendations on something more affordable which can handle full
> routing tables from two providers?
>
>
>
> Prefer Juniper but happy to look alternatives.
>
> Min 6-8 10G ports are required
>
> 1G support required
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
>
>
> Mehmet
>
> --
>
> Mehmet
> +1-424-298-1903
>
-- 
Mehmet
+1-424-298-1903

RE: Mx204 alternative

[Tony Wicks]

Nokia 7750 sr-1.

 

 

From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Mehmet Akcin
Sent: Thursday, 8 August 2019 3:03 PM
To: nanog 
Subject: Mx204 alternative

 

Greetings,

 

I am looking for some suggestions on alternatives to mx204. 

 

Any recommendations on something more affordable which can handle full routing 
tables from two providers?

 

Prefer Juniper but happy to look alternatives.

Min 6-8 10G ports are required

1G support required

 

Thanks in advance! 

 

Mehmet

-- 

Mehmet
+1-424-298-1903

Mx204 alternative

[Mehmet Akcin]

Greetings,

I am looking for some suggestions on alternatives to mx204.

Any recommendations on something more affordable which can handle full
routing tables from two providers?

Prefer Juniper but happy to look alternatives.
Min 6-8 10G ports are required
1G support required

Thanks in advance!

Mehmet
-- 
Mehmet
+1-424-298-1903

Re: What can ISPs do better? Removing racism out of internet

[bzs]

On August 7, 2019 at 18:43 cov...@ccs.covici.com (John Covici) wrote:
 > Well, I don't want any net nannies sensoring the news I get, any ideas
 > the nanny does not like I will never see (?)

Then you wouldn't buy it. Netnanny exists now, do you use it? No?
Would you use it? No. Then nothing would change.

P.S. Netnanny is an actual product parents can buy to put a filter on
their children's access to the internet. I have no interest, it's just
become a term for that kind of thing.

 > On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 15:37:48 -0400,
 > b...@theworld.com wrote:
 > > 
 > > 
 > > I propose that the RIGHT THING TO DO would be to seek out, promote (to
 > > both customers and the public), and support various curation services
 > > like netnanny.
 > > 
 > > Promoting the idea that third-party curation is a service one can
 > > obtain into the public discussion can only be good.
 > > 
 > > -- 
 > > -Barry Shein
 > > 
 > > Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com | 
 > > http://www.TheWorld.com
 > > Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
 > > The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
 > 
 > -- 
 > Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
 > How do
 > you spend it?
 > 
 >  John Covici wb2una
 >  cov...@ccs.covici.com

-- 
-Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*

RE: What can ISPs do better? Removing racism out of internet

[bzs]

Netnanny is mostly sold for parents to put on their children's access.

You're not thinking this through.

Promote third-party curation, those who never want to see content they
find disturbing can PURCHASE* that service rather than bugging their
congressperson to demand that ISPs provide this for everyone for free
by law.

* No reason it couldn't be ad-supported but I hope you get my point.

On August 7, 2019 at 16:34 kmedc...@dessus.com (Keith Medcalf) wrote:
 > 
 > On Wednesday, 7 August, 2019 13:38, b...@theworld.com wrote:
 > 
 > >I propose that the RIGHT THING TO DO would be to seek out, promote
 > >(to >both customers and the public), and support various curation 
 > >services like netnanny.
 > 
 > IANAP (I Am Not A Psychiatrist) however, persons who, when reading or 
 > hearing the words of others cannot control the images which leap, unbidden, 
 > into their minds causing them to offend themselves or otherwise instill in 
 > themselves a self-created state of distress, should, IMHO, seek professional 
 > help from a trained and certified mental health professional who may be able 
 > to help them overcome their mental disability either through psychotherapy 
 > or the administration of psychoactive drugs.
 > 
 > I do not think NetNanny is a certified mental health professional in any 
 > jurisdication -- at least not those within the NANOG region.
 > 
 > -- 
 > The fact that there's a Highway to Hell but only a Stairway to Heaven says a 
 > lot about anticipated traffic volume.
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 

-- 
-Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*

RE: What can ISPs do better? Removing racism out of internet

[Keith Medcalf]

On Wednesday, 7 August, 2019 13:38, b...@theworld.com wrote:

>I propose that the RIGHT THING TO DO would be to seek out, promote
>(to >both customers and the public), and support various curation
>services like netnanny.

IANAP (I Am Not A Psychiatrist) however, persons who, when reading or hearing 
the words of others cannot control the images which leap, unbidden, into their 
minds causing them to offend themselves or otherwise instill in themselves a 
self-created state of distress, should, IMHO, seek professional help from a 
trained and certified mental health professional who may be able to help them 
overcome their mental disability either through psychotherapy or the 
administration of psychoactive drugs.

I do not think NetNanny is a certified mental health professional in any 
jurisdication -- at least not those within the NANOG region.

--
The fact that there's a Highway to Hell but only a Stairway to Heaven says a 
lot about anticipated traffic volume.

Re: What can ISPs do better? Removing racism out of internet

[bzs]

I propose that the RIGHT THING TO DO would be to seek out, promote (to
both customers and the public), and support various curation services
like netnanny.

Promoting the idea that third-party curation is a service one can
obtain into the public discussion can only be good.

-- 
-Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*

Re: [j-nsp] MX10003 rack size

[Anderson, Charles R]

1000mm deep.  APC AR3100 racks are 600mm x 1070mm.  APC also makes 1200mm deep 
ones, and 750mm wide ones, and both together.

On Wed, Aug 07, 2019 at 04:12:26PM +, Richard McGovern wrote:
> Pete "1000 deep rack"??  Is that fathoms __
> 
> Richard McGovern
> Sr Sales Engineer, Juniper Networks 
> 978-618-3342
>  
> I’d rather be lucky than good, as I know I am not good
> I don’t make the news, I just report it
>  
> 
> On 8/7/19, 6:20 AM, "Pete Webb"  wrote:
> 
> No mate,
> I made the same mistake.
> Minimum you can get away with is 1000 deep racks, and even then you have 
> to leave the front air filter off.
> 
> Pete
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: juniper-nsp  On Behalf Of 
> Sander Steffann
> Sent: 30 July 2019 13:32
> To: nanog ; Juniper List 
> Subject: [j-nsp] MX10003 rack size
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Has anyone ever managed to fit a Juniper MX10003 in a 90cm deep rack? 
> Without applying power tools to either the rack or the router ;)
> 
> Cheers,
> Sander

Re: What can ISPs do better? Removing racism out of internet

[Rob McEwen]

On 8/7/2019 10:50 AM, Tony Patti wrote:


FYI, /Bloomberg BusinessWeek/ published _TODAY_ a 3,200-word article 
by Felix Gillette entitled*

"Section 230 Was Supposed to Make the Internet a Better Place. It Failed"*
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-08-07/section-230-was-supposed-to-make-the-internet-a-better-place-it-failed 





If the whole Section 230 gets deleted - and isn't carefully replaced - 
then many DNSBLs and spam filters and spam filtering technology 
providers with get sued out of business (even if just by SLAPP lawsuits 
suddenly making more progress and costing a fortune in attorney feeds). 
These costs will then get passed onto consumers in the form of either 
MUCH WORSE spam filtering, or much higher costs for email hosting 
services. The same is true for Internet content filters, too.


Be careful what you wish for, you might get it!

--
Rob McEwen

RE: What can ISPs do better? Removing racism out of internet

[Tony Patti]

FYI, Bloomberg BusinessWeek published TODAY a 3,200-word article by Felix 
Gillette entitled

"Section 230 Was Supposed to Make the Internet a Better Place. It Failed"
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-08-07/section-230-was-supposed-to-make-the-internet-a-better-place-it-failed

Tony Patti
[SW_logo_HighRes]
CIO

t: (215) 867-8401
f: (215) 268-7184
e: t...@swalter.com
w: www.swalter.com







-Original Message-
From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Mel Beckman
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 11:36 PM
To: John Levine 
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: What can ISPs do better? Removing racism out of internet



John,



Please reread my comments. I did not say “carriers” and specifically excluded 
the FCC’s definition. I said “Common Carriers”, as defined by Common Law. The 
DMCA asserts that they must operate as CCs under this definition: in order to 
get protection under Safe Harbor they must function as a “passive conduit” of 
information.



-mel via cell



> On Aug 6, 2019, at 7:36 PM, John Levine 
> mailto:jo...@iecc.com>> wrote:

>

> In article 
> <6956e76b-e6b7-409f-a636-c7607bfd8...@beckman.org>
>  you write:

>> Mehmet,

>>

>> I’m not sure if you understand the terms under which ISPs operate as “common 
>> carriers”, and thus enjoy immunity from lawsuits due to the acts of their 
>> customers.

>

> ISPs in the U.S. are not carriers and never have been.  Even the ISPs

> that are subsidaries of telcos, which are common carriers for their

> telco operations, are not common carriers for their ISPs.

>

> This should not come as surprise to anyone who's spent 15 minutes

> looking at the relevant law.

>

> ISPs are probably protected by 47 USC 230(c)(1) but all of the case

> law I know is related to web sites or hosting providers.

>

>

Contact in ATU

[DaKnOb]

Hello,
Anyone by any chance has any contact info for ATU in Albania? Any type of 
contact should probably be fine, from what I’ve seen, not necessarily 
technical. 

Thanks,
Antonis 

Re: GEO IP Updates

[Martijn Schmidt via NANOG]

Google also has a portal where you can provide a link to a self-published csv 
geofeed, which is used for some but not all products served from their CDN 
infrastructure.

https://isp.google.com/geo_feed/

They're also working on getting the format standardised in the IETF. I applaud 
this, because less badly guessed geoip data and more reliably self-published 
data is better:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-google-self-published-geofeeds

From: NANOG  on behalf of Chriztoffer Hansen 

Sent: 07 August 2019 08:27:23
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Subject: Re: GEO IP Updates


Colin Legendre wrote on 06/08/2019 17:10:
> We updated... Maxmind, DB-IP, IP Info, IP Geolocation, IPHub. IP2location
>
> Any others we should update?

$DAY_JOB previously had a case. Were it was necessary to contact Akamai.
Because they have their own database.

--

[ have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? ]
[ Chriztoffer Hansen+1 914 3133553 ]
[   0x18dd23c550293098de07052a9dcf2ca008ebd2e8 ]

Re: GEO IP Updates

[Chriztoffer Hansen]

Colin Legendre wrote on 06/08/2019 17:10:

We updated... Maxmind, DB-IP, IP Info, IP Geolocation, IPHub. IP2location

Any others we should update?


$DAY_JOB previously had a case. Were it was necessary to contact Akamai. 
Because they have their own database.


--

[ have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? ]
[ Chriztoffer Hansen+1 914 3133553 ]
[   0x18dd23c550293098de07052a9dcf2ca008ebd2e8 ]



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