Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

[Sean Donelan]

I would say, if you’re looking to build or expand your networks, focus 
on how you can get the fiber out there, there’s a lot of money available 
if you’re willing to take it.  It might mean taking the USF money and 
the obligations that go with that in reporting, compliance, etc.. but 
those costs don’t have to be onerous if you are mindful of how the 
programs work and have the right integration/reporting.



Yep.  No one is forcing carriers to take USF money.  They can 
essentially build whatever they want without USF money.


However, if they do take the USF money, what should be the absolute 
minimum delivery requirements?  They can always build above the minimum.


Its essentially a reverse auction.  If the government sets the 
requirements too high, the carriers claim they will walk away and the 
long-tail of broadband doesn't happen.  If the government sets the 
requirements too low, the carriers take the money and build less.


The historical problem is carriers promise whatever it takes to win, take 
the money and don't deliver (or demand more money to finish).

Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

[John Levine]

It appears that Owen DeLong via NANOG  said:
>-=-=-=-=-=-
>Forgive me if I have little or no sympathy for them.

The laws of physics make it rather difficult to provide symmetrical speeds on
shared media like coax or cellular radio.  As wired networks move to all fiber
they'll get more symmetrical but in the meantime I expect that Comcast, 
Spectrum,
Cox, AT, Verizon, and T-Mobile are deeply troubled by your disapproval.

R's,
John

>> On May 29, 2022, at 14:10, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
>> 
>> This is going to be very painful and difficult for a number of DOCSIS3 
>> operators, including some of the largest ISPs in the USA with
>multi-millions of subscribers with tons of legacy coax plant that have no 
>intention of ever changing the RF channel setup and
>downstream/upstream asymmetric bandwidth allocation to provide more than 
>15-20Mbps upstream per home. 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, 26 May 2022 at 16:59, Jeff Shultz > > wrote:
>> I think we have a winner here - we don't necessarily need 1G down, but we do 
>> need to get the upload speeds up to symmetrical 50/50,
>100/100 etc... there are enough people putting in HD security cameras and the 
>like that upstream speeds are beginning to be an issue. 
>> 
>> On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 4:37 AM David Bass > > wrote:
>> The real problem most users experience isn’t that they have a gig, or even 
>> 100Mb of available download bandwidth…it’s that
>they infrequently are able to use that full bandwidth due to massive over 
>subscription .  
>> 
>> The other issue is the minimal upload speed.  It’s fairly easy to consume 
>> the 10Mb that you’re typically getting as a
>residential customer.  Even “business class” broadband service has a pretty 
>poor upload bandwidth limit.  
>> 
>> We are a pretty high usage family, and 100/10 has been adequate, but there’s 
>> been times when we are pegged at the 10 Mb upload
>limit, and we start to see issues. 
>> 
>> I’d say 25/5 is a minimum for a single person. 
>> 
>> Would 1 gig be nice…yeah as long as the upload speed is dramatically 
>> increased as part of that.  We would rarely use it, but that
>would likely be sufficient for a long time.  I wouldn’t pay for the extra at 
>this point though. 
>> 

Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

[Owen DeLong via NANOG]

Forgive me if I have little or no sympathy for them.

Owen


> On May 29, 2022, at 14:10, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
> 
> This is going to be very painful and difficult for a number of DOCSIS3 
> operators, including some of the largest ISPs in the USA with multi-millions 
> of subscribers with tons of legacy coax plant that have no intention of ever 
> changing the RF channel setup and downstream/upstream asymmetric bandwidth 
> allocation to provide more than 15-20Mbps upstream per home. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 26 May 2022 at 16:59, Jeff Shultz  > wrote:
> I think we have a winner here - we don't necessarily need 1G down, but we do 
> need to get the upload speeds up to symmetrical 50/50, 100/100 etc... there 
> are enough people putting in HD security cameras and the like that upstream 
> speeds are beginning to be an issue. 
> 
> On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 4:37 AM David Bass  > wrote:
> The real problem most users experience isn’t that they have a gig, or even 
> 100Mb of available download bandwidth…it’s that they infrequently are able to 
> use that full bandwidth due to massive over subscription .  
> 
> The other issue is the minimal upload speed.  It’s fairly easy to consume the 
> 10Mb that you’re typically getting as a residential customer.  Even “business 
> class” broadband service has a pretty poor upload bandwidth limit.  
> 
> We are a pretty high usage family, and 100/10 has been adequate, but there’s 
> been times when we are pegged at the 10 Mb upload limit, and we start to see 
> issues. 
> 
> I’d say 25/5 is a minimum for a single person. 
> 
> Would 1 gig be nice…yeah as long as the upload speed is dramatically 
> increased as part of that.  We would rarely use it, but that would likely be 
> sufficient for a long time.  I wouldn’t pay for the extra at this point 
> though. 
> 
> On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 8:20 PM Sean Donelan  > wrote:
> 
> Remember, this rulemaking is for 1.1 million locations with the "worst" 
> return on investment. The end of the tail of the long tail.  Rural and 
> tribal locations which aren't profitable to provide higher speed 
> broadband.
> 
> These locations have very low customer density, and difficult to serve.
> 
> After the Sandwich Isles Communications scandal, gold-plated proposals 
> will be viewed with skepticism.  While a proposal may have a lower total 
> cost of ownership over decades, the business case is the cheapest for 
> the first 10 years of subsidies.  [massive over-simplification]
> 
> Historically, these projects have lack of timely completion (abandoned, 
> incomplete), and bad (overly optimistic?) budgeting.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jeff Shultz
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: FYI - 2FA to be come mandatory for ARIN Online? (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Consultation on Requiring Two-Factor Authentication (2FA) for ARIN Online Accounts

[Randy Bush]

> For a while google authenticator did not let you "export" (copy to
> another device) for "security reasons". Nowadays it does

i think this is probably good for some folk.  though personally i am not
sure i want to consider two devices as endangered.

but as the list gets longer and longer, export as a backup mechanism is
tempting.  though an encrypted blob a la hsm backup would be a much
smaller increase in attack surface than cloning.

as i get more and more entries in the list, i would love it being alpha
sorted.  search requires that i adopt the fantasy that the iphone has a
keyboard.

randy

Re: [External] Open source tool for network map visualization

[Tom Hill]

On 27/05/2022 14:32, Tom Krenn via NANOG wrote:

A little simple, but maybe Network Weathermap?

https://www.network-weathermap.com/


With some tuning of your variables, it's really easy to automate a very 
useful topographical network diagram from practically any source of 
data. You do need to make sure that you think about that topography, 
however. Do you care about individual links in a LAG? Or could you 
aggregate those into a single link, with a click URL that 'drills down' 
to another specific map for that router/data centre/metro?


My only bugbear would be that there's no 'easy' way to overlay it on a 
world map *and* have the fidelity needed to view it all at a distance 
(like on a NOC screen). The choices above would only go so far, and 
you'd eventually find yourself with a lot of screens in the NOC just for 
maps.


Something like a Google Earth overlay would be wonderful, but I never 
found myself capable and/or with sufficient time to make that real. 
Other (commercial) products have no doubt done something like that.


--
Tom

Re: FYI - 2FA to be come mandatory for ARIN Online? (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Consultation on Requiring Two-Factor Authentication (2FA) for ARIN Online Accounts

[Robert Kisteleki]

On 2022-05-30 11:45, t...@pelican.org wrote:

On Sunday, 29 May, 2022 06:04, "Owen DeLong via NANOG"  said:


I use google auth for several forced 2FA sites and a few sites where what I am
protecting is worth the hassle. One difficulty that quickly emerges is managing
and finding the correct Totp in the long unsorted list.


In case it's of help, Authy seems a much-improved UI over Google Auth, 
including searching, and sync between devices, so e.g. your tablet can be your 
back-up key if your phone dies, is replaced, etc.


For a while google authenticator did not let you "export" (copy to 
another device) for "security reasons". Nowadays it does, not sure since 
exactly when. It also lets you search, so in these regards they are 
probably on par now.


Robert

Re: FYI - 2FA to be come mandatory for ARIN Online? (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Consultation on Requiring Two-Factor Authentication (2FA) for ARIN Online Accounts

[t...@pelican.org]

On Sunday, 29 May, 2022 06:04, "Owen DeLong via NANOG"  said:

> I use google auth for several forced 2FA sites and a few sites where what I am
> protecting is worth the hassle. One difficulty that quickly emerges is 
> managing
> and finding the correct Totp in the long unsorted list.

In case it's of help, Authy seems a much-improved UI over Google Auth, 
including searching, and sync between devices, so e.g. your tablet can be your 
back-up key if your phone dies, is replaced, etc.

No connection other than as a happy user.

Cheers,
Tim.