Re: Outside plant - prewire customer demarc preference

[Brandon Martin]

On 11/22/23 12:35, Sean Donelan wrote:


For *only* $1,000, the builder is willing to pre-install a smurf tube 
from the demarc to the central distribution point.  But such a deal 
for 5G


Yeah that's ridiculous.  Running such a thing while the walls are still 
open is a piece of cake, and the material is maybe $50-100 depending on 
distance.


Since most fiber installs seem to use pre-connectorized cable, without 
affecting building structure integrity (i.e. 2-inch is too big 
according to builder), how small is too small?  Trade size 1/2-inch, 
3/4-inch, 1-inch?


Does the FTTH industry have any published standards?


At least my experience has been that, where pre-connectorized drop 
cables are used, they're only pre-termed on the telco side (often, but 
by no means always in a hardened connector).  The customer side is 
either unterminated or uses a small ferrule with a snap-on housing 
precisely so that it can be fished through small holes in walls/framing 
and small or crowded conduits.


In practice, 1/2" trade size smurf tube is big enough if it's not too 
long and bendy especially if they're willing to get one with a 
pull-string already in it (and the guy before you is nice enough to pull 
another).  If it's a long or bendy drop or you want a little extra piece 
of mind, 3/4" is readily available not too expensive.  1" starts to get 
a bit expensive and is usually unnecessary.


I personally connectorize both sides in the field.  Having the ability 
to do it is invaluable for repairs, and it's not that much harder to do 
two sides than one especially if you're already fishing wires and such.  
If you're using hardened connectors, the situation is different since 
they're not commonly available for field install, though it is a thing 
you can get.


I'm not aware of any published standards focusing on FTTx in North 
America.  All the standards I know of are datacenter/mid-size business 
oriented and are going to call for ridiculous (in FTTx) things like 2"+ 
rigid conduit on the assumption it'll have at least a 48F loose-tube in 
it and probably more than one.


I would imagine some of the national ogre telcos who are still doing 
FTTx deployments will have a pre-build guide for at least MDUs that 
might be useful, though around here they often just show up when the 
first person orders service and treat the building as "existing" even if 
it was just built last week.  I'm guessing they have so many existing 
buildings to deal with at least right now that this isn't a huge deal 
for them and may even be easier than having two classes of MDU installs 
(existing and pre-wire). AT and Centurylink/Lumen are the most likely 
to have them IMO, but checking Frontier/Verizon (do they still have ANY 
wireline territory?) may be useful, too, especially since they were the 
earliest ones to do it.


--
Brandon Martin

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RE: CPE/NID options

[Tony Wicks]

The Nokia 7210 sas range has suitable devices for layer2 (sas-k5) and MPLS
(sas-k12, sas-d) edge at non totally crazy prices. They are true telco grade
edge devices - https://onestore.nokia.com/asset/184551

 

  _  

From: NANOG mailto:nanog-bounces+chris=thesysadmin...@nanog.org> > on behalf of Ross
Tajvar mailto:r...@tajvar.io> >
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2023 3:41 PM
To: North American Network Operators' Group mailto:nanog@nanog.org> >
Subject: CPE/NID options 

 

I'm evaluating CPEs for one of my clients, a regional ISP. Currently, we're
terminating the customer's service (L3) on our upstream equipment and
extending it over our own fiber to the customer's premise, where it lands in
a Juniper EX2200 or EX2300.

 

At a previous job, I used Accedian's ANTs on the customer prem side. I like
the ANT because it has a small footprint with only 2 ports, it's passively
cooled, it's very simple to operate, it's controlled centrally, etc.
Unfortunately, when I reached out to Accedian, they insisted that the
controller (which is required) started at $30k, which is a non-starter for
us.

 

I'm not aware of any other products like this. Does anyone have a
recommendation for a simple L2* device to deploy to customer premises? Not
necessarily the exact same thing, but something similarly-featured would be
ideal.

 

*I'm not sure if the ANT is exactly "layer 2", but I don't know what else to
call it.

Re: Incident with AMS-IX drops 7.5 Tbps of traffic

[Erik van Westen via NANOG]

Yesterday evening, today again.

[quote]

"We have identified what seems to be the sequence of events. We are 
currently working on confirming the hypothesis in the lab, while the 
platform is stabilised, before we proceed to any further changes/actions.
We have confirmed that Juniper propagated LACP packets from a customer 
to the rest of the platform. Of course, this shouldn't happen which 
points to a bug. This causes customer LACP LAGs to be torn down and, 
potential, pseudowires to get destroyed and rebuild.
In consequence, this leads to full buffers and resource starvation which 
leads to RSVP messages timeout/errors. Then, RSVP PathError messages are 
sent (aggressively) and trigger another Juniper bug, which sends 
PathError messages to both the head-end PEs and new RSVP Path messages 
to the tail-end PEs, without any back-off timeouts.

As a cascade effect, this causes issues to SLXes as well."


Update 15:20:

We have finished the call with our vendor and we can confirm that the 
root cause is indeed triggered by (wrong) propagation of LACP packets 
from Juniper PE equipment.


As a mitigation solution, we will be deploying ACL entries to filter out 
LACP packets on all non-LACP interfaces on Juniper boxes.
At the same time, we will reboot Juniper core-glo-205, to refresh its 
runtime state and proceed will load balancing all traffic to both cores.


Please note that the platform is currently stable and we are working on 
installing the failsafes to avoid any reoccurrence.


[/quote]


On 23-11-2023 15:57, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

https://www.ams-ix.net/ams/documentation/total-stats

https://www.ams-ix.net/ams/outage-on-amsterdam-peering-platform

Re: CPE/NID options

[Benjamin Collet via NANOG]

Hi Ross,

On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 at 23:41:41 -0500, Ross Tajvar wrote:
> I'm not aware of any other products like this. Does anyone have a
> recommendation for a simple L2* device to deploy to customer premises? Not
> necessarily the exact same thing, but something similarly-featured would be
> ideal.

If you're looking for MEF-compliant NIDs, both Ciena CES[1] and RAD
ETX[2] are solid options in my experience.

Cheers,
Benjamin

---
[1] https://www.ciena.com/products#routing-and-switching
[2] https://www.rad.com/products/Ethernet-Access-Devices-Routers/
-- 
Benjamin Collet


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Incident with AMS-IX drops 7.5 Tbps of traffic

[Eric Kuhnke]

https://www.ams-ix.net/ams/documentation/total-stats

https://www.ams-ix.net/ams/outage-on-amsterdam-peering-platform

Re: Advantages and disadvantages of legacy assets

[John Curran]

Gary -

It is unclear if/when such an outcome will occur, but the potential of such an 
endstate highlights the importance of being involved in governance activities 
of one (or more) of the community-based RIR organizations – as a preparatory 
measure should such a change occur in the future.

Note that there is a near-universal expectation of governments that forbearance 
of public regulation (due to industry self-regulation) is only warranted when 
the private alternative covers all of those engaged in similar business, so 
your expressed trajectory has a sound basis.

Best wishes (& Happy Holidays!),
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
American Registry for Internet Numbers


On Nov 22, 2023, at 10:02 PM, Gary Buhrmaster  wrote:

On Wed, Nov 22, 2023 at 8:14 PM William Herrin  wrote:

It still seems unwise, but not entirely insane.

I would expect that at some point in the future
that many/all of the major players will require
RIR validated routing information, and whether
that is due to regulation or best practices for
which the majors will not want to become liable
for ignoring (and "think of the children") is hard
to know.  In the end I suspect we are likely just
trying to discern when that date will be, not the
eventual end result ("not today" is not, really,
a valid target goal).

Re: CPE/NID options

[Shawn L via NANOG]

I believe RAD makes a device similar to the Accedian.  There's also the Metro 
Nid line from Accedian, but while they do a lot, they're pretty spendy.
 
Shawn
 

-Original Message-
From: "Tim Burke" 
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2023 12:38am
To: "Ross Tajvar" 
Cc: "North American Network Operators' Group" 
Subject: Re: CPE/NID options



We are using EX2300-C’s, they do the trick very well. Fanless, flexible 
mounting options, dual 10G feeds, and a nice price point. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 22, 2023, at 22:44, Ross Tajvar  wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm evaluating CPEs for one of my clients, a regional ISP. Currently, we're 
> terminating the customer's service (L3) on our upstream equipment and 
> extending it over our own fiber to the customer's premise, where it lands in 
> a Juniper EX2200 or EX2300.
> 
> At a previous job, I used Accedian's ANTs on the customer prem side. I like 
> the ANT because it has a small footprint with only 2 ports, it's passively 
> cooled, it's very simple to operate, it's controlled centrally, etc. 
> Unfortunately, when I reached out to Accedian, they insisted that the 
> controller (which is required) started at $30k, which is a non-starter for us.
> 
> I'm not aware of any other products like this. Does anyone have a 
> recommendation for a simple L2* device to deploy to customer premises? Not 
> necessarily the exact same thing, but something similarly-featured would be 
> ideal.
> 
> *I'm not sure if the ANT is exactly "layer 2", but I don't know what else to 
> call it.