XGS-PON & "Dedicated" Service

[Neader, Brent]

Hello!

Interested in getting the larger community's thought on this.

The primary question being does XGS-PON have a place in providing a dedicated 
enterprise level service (at least sold as one) in the marketplace?  Delivered 
via a residential (per the data sheet description) CPE, Nokia XS-010X-Q for a 
1gb/1gb dedicated symmetrical service.

Background, ive dealt with 30+ providers over the last 18 years, primarily last 
mile based.  Typically we seek out an Enterprise/Dedicated service, with an 
SLA, typically delivered via DWDM, CWDM, or AE, or equivalent.  We have also 
had a site or two delivered via a PON variant, typically with less of an SLA, 
typically maybe half to quarter of the price of a dedicated service.  Price & 
SLA sets the expectation of the service, CPE provided, underlying technology, 
etc.

Dealing with a large over-builder right now who has an "elite" enterprise 
product (highest of 3 tiers) advertised as the following.


-100% dedicated bandwidth so you never have to compete for speed


-Mission Critical Reliability with 99.999% guaranteed uptime


-Financially backed SLA with the most stringent performance objectives


-Enterprise-level customer service and technical support

Now I understand with XGS, you can have various QOS in place (WRR/SP, etc), but 
inherently there are still shared splits involved, that just aren't a thing in 
other truly dedicated technologies.  Expectations were set with the provider's 
sales team around what was to be delivered and how it was to be delivered that 
seemingly haven't been met by the product and service team.

That aside, from an SP perspective, is it capable to wrap enough layers around 
service to be "dedicated" even when delivered via a conflicting underlying 
technology?  Or could that be considered disingenuous for those that want to 
know and understand the difference?  Im hoping the service itself and support 
team make up for the difference, but obviously a little concerned.

Thanks!

RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Arelion/Telia AS1299 issues?

[Neader, Brent]

About as ugly as a graph as ive seen!  Reverse path for this site is cogent, 
mtr and forward ISP failing me a bit not returning the transition hop IP I need 
to verify, but im assuming its Arelion.  This site is in the southeast also.

[cid:image001.png@01DA0667.5563C150]

From: NANOG  On Behalf Of 
Steve Feldman
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2023 10:37 AM
To: Elmar K. Bins 
Cc: NANOG 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Arelion/Telia AS1299 issues?

$dayjob has transit from 1299 in Miami. We’ve been seeing packet loss nearby in 
their network since around 06: 00 UTC, still ongoing. Steve > On Oct 24, 2023, 
at 8: 20 AM, Elmar K. Bins  wrote: > > We also observed
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$dayjob has transit from 1299 in Miami.  We’ve been seeing packet loss nearby 
in their network since around 06:00 UTC, still ongoing.

 Steve



> On Oct 24, 2023, at 8:20 AM, Elmar K. Bins 
> mailto:e...@4ever.de>> wrote:

>

> We also observed this today, UTC morning, esp. across the pond, and our

> alternative paths from Europe to the US were suffering from the still unfixed

> fibre cut, so I was a bit unhappy with 200 extra ms, and 60% loss.

>

> 1299 seems to've found an alternative path in the meantime, looks good to us.

>

> Elmar.

>

>

> nanog@nanog.org (Andrian Visnevschi via NANOG) wrote:

>

>> We had the same issue with Arelion this morning, a huge increase in the

>> latency and jitter was happening across the US and of course for any

>> traffic sourced from the EU flowing to the US.

>> Within the US we noticed a latency spike from 20-50ms to ~200ms. From the

>> EU to our US facilities, we noticed a spike from  ~130ms to ~400ms.

>>

>>

>> We ended up shifting traffic from Arelion to a different carrier, and will

>> stay there until we are confident that they fixed any issue that they had

>> in their network. To be honest, we've been experiencing quite similar

>> issues with unstable latency on Arelion over the past couple of months, and

>> it's becoming quite frustrating

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> *Andrian Visnevschi*

>>

>> VP of Network & Security

>>

>> +373 68374133

>>

>> andr...@acreto.io | 
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://acreto.io__;!!MQS9YPUatEJj!iZ7j3VWHoxkh3S3Y9nSVzutat2MUlem16ycD6ZkjZEKDIfzdtZuY1hZ8YlspD9zJ_9Go4lCTes737Rtqe1SEPX-_sA$

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 6:03 PM David Hubbard 
>> mailto:dhubb...@dino.hostasaurus.com>>

>> wrote:

>>

>>> Hey all, anyone aware of issues with Arelion this morning?  We have a

>>> bunch of end users on at least Cox and Cogeco who are having serious issues

>>> with service access, and the problem appears to be on the return path where

>>> it traverses Arelion.  Source net is Lumen/L3 3356 but loss/latency doesn’t

>>> appear to creep up until already within Arelion’s network.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Imperva mentioned outage/degradation due to a national ISP issue too, so I

>>> suspect it’s affecting more than just certain peerings.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Thanks,

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> David

>>>

RE: Carriers

[Neader, Brent]

5nines is in that building, they list available carriers on their spec sheet, 
it is a pretty respectable selection.  Unsure of how the MMR or cross connects 
work in building though.

https://datacenter.5nines.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/62/2019/10/5NINES-Data-Center-PDF.pdf



From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020 9:02 AM
To: Daniel Corbe 
Cc: Nanog@nanog.org
Subject: EXT_Re: Carriers

Maybe those with their own glass, but they wouldn't know anything about anyone 
coming in on IRUs.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest-IX
http://www.midwest-ix.com


From: "Daniel Corbe" mailto:dan...@corbe.net>>
To: "Rod Beck" 
mailto:rod.b...@unitedcablecompany.com>>
Cc: Nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 2:30:00 PM
Subject: Re: Carriers


On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 12:47 PM Rod Beck 
mailto:rod.b...@unitedcablecompany.com>> wrote:
Does anyone know who are the providers in this building? US Signal is there. 
Anyone else?

222 West Washington Ave, Madison.

Surely the landlord would have a list of carriers providing service into the 
property.

Re: Changing upstream providers, opinions/thoughts on 123.net and cogent

[Neader, Brent]

Looks like they already are?

https://bgp.he.net/AS14374

Depending on which peer you might be replacing 123.net or cogent with, that 
could possibly change someone’s opinion.  However, at least from past topics on 
this, given cogent history with peering issues (such as HE.net cake), I think 
one would certainly want to understand what impact peering/routing quirks would 
cause them and their ability to work around them before selecting cogent.

Given I doubt your international reach is a big deal, and given 123.net is more 
of a tier2 (https://bgp.he.net/AS12129) with local and regional peering ( 
https://www.peeringdb.com/net/3899 ), they could be better suited for your 
traffic patterns and local customers?

Also if you are not already interconnected with 123.net from a transport 
perspective, given their footprint in the state, there could be opportunities 
for an NNI to expand your reach to help interconnect your customer’s locations 
(aka customer has a branch office inside and outside your direct footprint and 
wants ELAN type service).

I have looked at them before but never got serious, and thus cannot offer any 
input on their actual service or support.

From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Ben Cannon
Sent: Friday, January 4, 2019 8:16 PM
To: Aaron Henderson 
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: EXT_Re: Changing upstream providers, opinions/thoughts on 123.net and 
cogent

Run BGP and use multiple upstream providers as soon as you can.
-Ben

On Jan 4, 2019, at 4:57 AM, Aaron Henderson 
mailto:ahender...@avci.net>> wrote:
I work for a rural ISP and the powers that be have been thinking about changing 
our upstream providers. The big names on the table right now are 
123.net and Cogent.

I, along with the people in my circle, do not have any experience with these 
providers and all we are getting is what sales are dishing us.

I was hoping some of you here might have experience with these providers and 
could share your experiences and opinions.

Thanks,

A