RE: Class D addresses? was: Redploying most of 127/8 as unicast public

[Richard Irving]

“In the early to mid 90's it was still a crap shoot of whether IP was
going to win (though it was really the only game in town for non-lan)
but by when I started at Cisco in 1998 it was the clear winner with
broadband starting to roll out”



IP was the clear winner since the Clinton-Gore Initiative of 1991, as we called 
it in 1991. (History records this as the  “Gore Bill”, feel free to Google.) [ 
He invented the Internet, you know! 😊 ] at which time we began prototype 
conversion of non-DOD Government agencies to “The IP Paradigm”, till about 
94-95, when the next phase was rollout to K-12 and Public libraries, as well as 
mainstream ISP’s.  This necessitated the birth of the NAP’s. These NAP’s were 
supposed to be -Private- sector, not Public. Many of us “Riding the Bill” left 
Public sector contracting to Private sector to facilitate this transition. 
(Hence the date of my ARIN-POC, actually just POC, ARIN didn’t exist yet) The 
debate in 95 was not “IP or not IP”, it was “Will your NAP be FDDI like the 
MAE’s, ATM, or even the LINX model of a GIGE switch. (Frame was already fading) 
“ While in private sector there may have been some doubt, the IP Juggernaut was 
well underway in Government by almost half a decade, and as they say “That is 
the sound of inevitability, Neo”, at that point.  IP was as “nailed to the 
wall” early to mid 90’s as Tony Li’s resignation was to his bosses door, at 
Cisco, a year or so, later. However, FWIW, the private sector had yet to hear 
the sound of the train. Many brand protocol loyalist fought IP adoption all the 
way until their favorite brand -adopted- it, so I understand your perspective.

FWIW, I miss being able to fit into my “No 53” Tee Shirt. ☹

Matter of fact, many of us missed the foreshadowing of the “woke” generation 
when we got in trouble for painting cross hairs on a backhoe for a NANOG Tee… 
it got “banned” for “possibly inciting violence against backhoe operators” .

:-*



Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Michael Thomas
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2021 3:52 PM
To: William Herrin
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Class D addresses? was: Redploying most of 127/8 as unicast public


On 11/20/21 12:37 PM, William Herrin wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 12:03 PM Michael Thomas  wrote:
>> Was it the politics of ipv6 that
>> this didn't get resolved in the 90's when it was a lot more tractable?
> No, in the '90s we didn't have nearly the basis for looking ahead. We
> might still have invented a new way to use IP addresses that required
> a block that wasn't unicast. It was politics in the 2000's and the
> 2010's, as it is today.

In the early to mid 90's it was still a crap shoot of whether IP was
going to win (though it was really the only game in town for non-lan)
but by when I started at Cisco in 1998 it was the clear winner with
broadband starting to roll out. It was also obvious that v4 address
space was going to run out which of course was the core reason for v6.
So I don't understand why this didn't get done then when it was a *lot*
easier. It sure smacks of politics.

Mike

RE: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

[Richard Irving]

I will out an old member of list, not myself, he still runs Old Cisco (ASA 
managed, “fully”, might be debatable) firewall, capable of full duplex 100 Mbs, 
on -both- sides. 😃 (WHOA)
His optic provider gave him a converter between the full optic GigE run into 
his house, and the 100 FD at the ASA. (It was a special deal, free installation
and more reliable than the competitor) (Both were actually =true=, can you 
imagine ?)

He runs a business in his basement that monitors several well known big 
services his business relies upon 24x7x365, for over 25 years.
All interruptions are noticed (within reason) and monitored, logged and alarmed 
accordingly.

He and his wife has raised 2 children through college, (one’s on his MBA), his 
retirement business.. -everyone- streams, there is no “cable” per se, he “cut 
the wire” when it was fashionable….
and their children would rather video chat than walk across the room, or go out 
somewhere.

He adores telling me about how salespeople are *constantly* calling him to 
upgrade the service. “Why, we can fit 5GigE down to you now!” said the
salesperson with garish clothes and floppy clown feet. “You just *can’t* live 
without it!” “thump-thump” goes those feet…..

He always asks them for the packet loss ratio on the existing link….. the call 
sorta ends after that.

FWIW, he always starts this story out with a snicker, and some latest and 
greatest gourmet drink..… :-P



Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Mike Hammett via NANOG
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2022 4:20 PM
To: Aaron Wendel
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

Most households have no practical use for more than 25 megs. More is better, 
but let's not just throw money into a fire because of a marketing machine.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest-IX
http://www.midwest-ix.com


From: "Aaron Wendel" 
To: nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2022 1:49:13 PM
Subject: Re: FCC proposes higher speed goals (100/20 Mbps) for USF providers

The Fiber Broadband Association estimates that the average US household
will need more than a gig within 5 years.  Why not just jump it to a gig
or more?


On 5/23/2022 1:40 PM, Sean Donelan wrote:
>
> https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-proposes-higher-speed-goals-small-rural-broadband-providers-0
>
>
> The Federal Communications Commission voted [May 19, 2022] to seek
> comment on a proposal to provide additional universal service support
> to certain rural carriers in exchange for increasing deployment to
> more locations at higher speeds. The proposal would make changes to
> the Alternative Connect America Cost Model (A-CAM) program, with the
> goal of achieving widespread deployment of faster 100/20 Mbps
> broadband service throughout the rural areas served by rural carriers
> currently receiving A-CAM support.
>

Re: Death of the Internet, Film at 11

[Richard Irving]

Then, again, Ayn Rands idea of "sex" was to get slapped around first.. I 
am not sure I would

acquire my "life philosophy" from her

and, as *proudly* *independent* as she was, in the end, she relied upon 
American Social Security

to get by

talk is cheap.

On 10/21/2016 09:02 PM, James Downs wrote:

On Oct 21, 2016, at 17:39, Ronald F. Guilmette  wrote:
P.S.  To all of you Ayn Rand devotees out there who still vociferously
argue that it's nobody else's business how you monitor or police your
"private" networks, and who still refuse to take even minimalist steps

What does Ayn Rand have to do with it? She would hardly countenance 
incompetence.

Re: A few Baltimore tips for this week

[Richard Irving]

Anyone coming or leaving via BWI airport :

http://www.bwiairport.com/en/shops/shop-dine/store/obryckisab/

*Obrycki's *is an absolute /*must*/ for Authentic Maryland crab cakes, 
the ones

they show on the food channel, and "my grandmother made".
Get them *pan fried*, ignore all the other pretend methods of creating an
Authentic Maryland Crab cake, they are not authentic.

You may want to eat them with "Heinz" on the side, like a dip.
Don't worry about asking for ketchup, no chef in Maryland will complain,
it will probably be on the table, anyway.

Next time you see Bobby Flay winning a throw down with _Maryland__
__Blue Crab,_ Crab Cakes, you can say you have had the real thing,
and will understand /why/ he won.

   And heed our good friends advice here, and don't get too far
off the beaten path  You may become a "Bawlmer Merlund statistic, hon."


On 10/06/2014 01:11 PM, Rich Kulawiec wrote:

Restaurants worth visiting: the Waterfront Kitchen (pricey, worth it,
harbor views), The Helmand (Afghan, delicious, charming hosts),
McCormick & Schmick's (seafood, harbor views), The Black Olive (Greek),
B&O Brasserie (great cocktails too), Sotto Sopra (Italian),
Da Mimmo's (Italian)

Re: F-ckin Leap Seconds, how do they work?

[Richard Irving]

"I'm only at (aproxamately) 42.28755874876601 north. Once you go near 60 north the 
value changes significantly."

"There is a band of latitudes where it does make more sense."


It sure isn't Indiana.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2010/03/13/205642/daylight-saving-time-energy-dst/?mobile=nc



On 07/05/2012 07:25 AM, Jared Mauch wrote:


On Jul 5, 2012, at 7:18 AM, Henning Stener  wrote:


On 05/07/12 13:05, Nick Hilliard wrote:

On 05/07/2012 11:34, Jared Mauch wrote:

Live further north and you will see the difference dst makes.

This is true.  Ireland, UK, NL, Denmark, northern Germany and northern
Poland are at a similar latitude to Polar Bear Provincial Park by Hudson
Bay.  With DST, we get much more usable evenings March through October, and
the sun rises at 05:00 instead of 04:00 in the morning, so early risers
don't get woken up at 4 every day.  During the winter, regular time means
that we have sunrise after 08:30 for 5 weeks.  At this latitude, DST is
serious win.

Nick



Live further north and you will see the absurdity of dst. :)
I live in Norway. In summer the sun is up, in winter the sun is not up.
At this latitude, dst is..meh.

I'm only at (aproxamately) 42.28755874876601 north. Once you go near 60 north 
the value changes significantly.

There is a band of latitudes where it does make more sense.

Re: 4 byte ASNs through OpenBGPd to old Cisco IOS

[Richard Irving]

They did, and it now formed peering with the RSD.

Thanks!

12.4.(24)T is the first version from that IOS train that natively 
supports 4 byte ASN's.


We can upgrade at a more convenient time and date.

:-)

On 09/23/2015 05:04 PM, Simon Lockhart wrote:

On Wed Sep 23, 2015 at 03:37:31PM -0500, Mike Hammett wrote:

Do any of you have any useful input other than they need to upgrade their IOS
to something newer than 4.5 years old?

I recently went through a very similar issue, and was convinced it was related
to 32 bit ASNs.

Are they seeing this error?
Sep 1 08:40:41.506 UTC: %BGP-3-NOTIFICATION: sent to neighbor xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx 
3/11 (invalid or corrupt AS path) 11 bytes 40020802 033C3424 580097

If so, have they configured "no bgp enforce-first-as" in their BGP router
config?

Simon

Re: 4 byte ASNs through OpenBGPd to old Cisco IOS

[Richard Irving]

FWIW, I have single digit NANOG shirts in my closet...
of course, I couldn't /*fit* into them/... anymore.

It has been almos_t_ 20 years.

Time flies eh ?

Seems like just yesterday Bill, John, I and /*Moses*/ were all having 
lunch in Denver.


 ;-)

On 09/23/2015 05:20 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Fearing you might be on here, I tried to be fairly non-offensive in my 
post.  ;-)




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


*From: *"Richard Irving" 
*To: *"Simon Lockhart" , "Mike Hammett" 


*Cc: *"NANOG" 
*Sent: *Wednesday, September 23, 2015 4:19:23 PM
*Subject: *Re: 4 byte ASNs through OpenBGPd to old Cisco IOS


   Typo.

They did, and it *has* now formed peering with the RSD.

Thanks!

12.4.(24)T is the first version from that IOS train that natively
supports 4 byte ASN's.

We can upgrade at a more convenient time and date.

:-)

On 09/23/2015 05:04 PM, Simon Lockhart wrote:
> On Wed Sep 23, 2015 at 03:37:31PM -0500, Mike Hammett wrote:
>> Do any of you have any useful input other than they need to upgrade 
their IOS

>> to something newer than 4.5 years old?
> I recently went through a very similar issue, and was convinced it 
was related

> to 32 bit ASNs.
>
> Are they seeing this error?
> Sep 1 08:40:41.506 UTC: %BGP-3-NOTIFICATION: sent to neighbor 
xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx 3/11 (invalid or corrupt AS path) 11 bytes 40020802 
033C3424 580097

>
> If so, have they configured "no bgp enforce-first-as" in their BGP 
router

> config?
>
> Simon

Re: i hate october

[Richard Irving]

My NANOG membership is older than some of them lived to

:-(

Remember, the only thing worse than cruelty of growing old... is not.


On 10/16/2015 08:06 AM, Rodney Joffe wrote:


Though fewer and fewer of us remember them and why it sucks.

Sigh. RFC2468. I can't believe I missed my midnight reminder on the list.


On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:57 AM, Randy Bush  wrote:

jon postel died this day in 1988
abha ahuja next tuesday
itojun the 29th

arrrgh

Re: i hate october

[Richard Irving]

Peaking of growing older

On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:57 AM, Randy Bush  wrote:

jon postel died this day in 1988


   1998


abha ahuja next tuesday
itojun the 29th

arrrgh

Re: i hate october

[Richard Irving]

* sigh *

On 10/16/2015 12:46 PM, Richard Irving wrote:

*S*peaking of growing older

Re: OT: Given what you know now, if you were 21 again...

[Richard Irving]

Learn how to delegate -everything-, and actually do -nothing-...
.. how to blame someone else when something goes wrong, even if it's 
-your- fault,

and take full credit whenever anything goes well, even if it -isn't- yours..

Then, and only then, Grasshopper,
 you will be  ready for */management/* in -/*any*/- of the Fortune 
500 corporations.



:-P


-- Who is John Galt ?


On 07/13/2011 05:08 PM, Larry Stites wrote:

Given what you know now, if you were 21 and just starting into networking /
communications industry which areas of study or specialty would you
prioritize?


Thanks



Larry Stites
NCNetworks, Inc.
Nevada City, CA 95959

Re: Did Internap lose all clue?

[Richard Irving]

Awww C'mon. It is the same old, same old.

Q:  What is the difference between a Sales Engineer,
and an Engineer ?

A:  The Engineer *knows* when he is lying.

   :-D

"same as it ever was same as it ever was...same as it .. ever... 
was.." - Talking Heads




On 10/20/2011 04:59 PM, Holmes,David A wrote:

Looking at the link referenced below, the route optimization method mentioned 
appears to be very similar to the old Routescience or Sockeye BGP optimization 
products.

-Original Message-
From: Jay Nakamura [mailto:zeusda...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 1:54 PM
To: bas
Cc: nanog
Subject: Re: Did Internap lose all clue?

Well, it didn't say "router hops"...  They could mean "AS hops" I
guess.  I never trust marketing garbage anyway.  It makes my head
hurt.

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 4:48 PM, bas  wrote:

Recently I was contacted by an Internap sales person.
The third line of the email read:

"As you know well, BGP makes all routing decisions simply based on HOP COUNT"

I blinked my eyes a couple of times.. Yes it really said hop count.
Then I replied to the guy that if he tries to sell a technical product
to technical people he should get his info straight.

But he replied BGP actually makes decisions based on hop count.
He even sent an URL from the internap website that states this
http://www.internap.com/it-iq/route-optimization-miro/

On that page there is also this gem:
"BGP relies on the premise that hops are responsible for packet loss
and congestion, and therefore a route with fewer hops is inherently
better. "


I can imagine blatant misinformation like this from a shady startup
trying to trick some sales with smoke and mirrors, but from Internap?


-- Bas




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Re: Bandwidth Upgrade

[Richard Irving]

"40 Years of Training Champions for Christ: "

You would have thought they would have trained a /Network Engineer/,
or two.. in those 40 years, wouldn't you ?

;-)




On 11/17/2011 10:30 AM, Bielawa, Daniel Walter wrote:

Greetings,
 My team is in the process of putting some documentation 
together to justify a bandwidth upgrade. I am asking if you would be willing to 
reply back to me, with how you decide that it is time to upgrade your 
bandwidth. On-line or off-line reply's will be acceptable.

Thank You

Daniel Bielawa
Network Engineer
Liberty University Network Services

(434)592-7987

LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
40 Years of Training Champions for Christ: 1971-2011

Re: economic value of low AS numbers

[Richard Irving]

Since AS1 (BBNPLANET) was bought for around 666 million way back when, 
as I recall..

your 1k purchase would be -outstanding-.



On 11/17/2011 01:55 PM, Keegan Holley wrote:

2011/11/17 David Conrad


On Nov 17, 2011, at 8:16 AM, Keegan Holley wrote:

Besides standing at the water cooler at 1:23PM on 12/3 telling AS123

jokes

I'm not sure a particular AS number has any relevance or any monetary

value

unless there is scarcity.

You are discounting (pun intended) vanity and marketing.  I am no longer
surprised at what people will be willing to pay (sometimes astonishing
amounts of) money for.

I suppose I can't argue with that, but anyone technical enough to know

what an AS is should know better.  Also, would it really count?  What if I
opened a small ISP in some carrier hotel and paid 1000 bucks for AS 1.  I'm
not sure I'd want to sign a contract with someone dumb enough to think I
was the first company on the internet.