Re: Are network operators morons? [was: CloudFlare issues?]
>> perhaps the good side of this saga is that it may be an inflection >> point > I doubt it. > The greyer my hair gets, the crankier I get. i suspect i am a bit ahead of you there but i used to think that the public would never become aware of privacy issues. snowen bumped that ball and tim cook spiked it. and it is getting more and more air time. randy
Re: Are network operators morons? [was: CloudFlare issues?]
On Tue, 25 Jun 2019, Randy Bush wrote: perhaps the good side of this saga is that it may be an inflection point I doubt it. The greyer my hair gets, the crankier I get.
Re: Are network operators morons? [was: CloudFlare issues?]
perhaps the good side of this saga is that it may be an inflection point randy
Re: Are network operators morons? [was: CloudFlare issues?]
(thanks, btw, again) On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 8:33 AM Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > It is not like 701 is causing problems every week, or even ever year. If you > think this one incident proves they are ‘morons’, you are only showing you > are neither experienced nor mature enough to make that judgement. > I would be shocked if 701 is no longer filtering customers by default. I know they weren't filtering 'peers'. it seems like the particular case yesterday was a missed customer prefix-list :( which is sad, but happens. the japan incident seems to be the other type, I'd guess. -chris
Re: Are network operators morons? [was: CloudFlare issues?]
On 25/Jun/19 14:59, Adam Kennedy via NANOG wrote: > > > I believe there probably is a happy medium we can all meet, sort of > our own ISP DMZ, where we can help one another in the simple mistakes > or cut each other some slack in those difficult times. I like to think > NANOG is that place. Isn't that the point of NOG's, and why we rack so many air miles each year trying to meet each other and break bread (or something) while checking the Competition Hats at the door? Mark.
Re: Are network operators morons? [was: CloudFlare issues?]
Now with that out of the way... The mentality of everyone working together for a Better Internet (tm) is sort of a mantra of WISPA and WISPs in general. It is a mantra that has puzzled me and perplexed my own feelings as a network engineer. Do I want a better overall experience for my users and customers? Absolutely. Do I strive to make our network the best... pause... in the world? Definitely. Should I do the same to help a neighboring ISP, a competitor? This is where I scratch my head. You would absolutely think that we would all want a better overall Internet. One that we can depend on in times of need. One that we can be proud of. But we are driven, unfortunately, by our C-level execs to shun the competition and do whatever we can to get a leg up on everyone else. While this is good for the bottom line it is not exactly a healthy mentality to pit everyone against each other. It causes animosity between providers and we end up blaming each other for something simple and then claim they are stupid. A mistake that may be easy to make, a mistake that we have probably made ourselves a few times, perhaps a mistake we can learn to shrug off. I believe there probably is a happy medium we can all meet, sort of our own ISP DMZ, where we can help one another in the simple mistakes or cut each other some slack in those difficult times. I like to think NANOG is that place. -- Adam Kennedy, Network & Systems Engineer adamkenn...@watchcomm.net *Watch Communications* (866) 586-1518 On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 8:50 AM Matthew Walster wrote: > > > On Tue, 25 Jun 2019, 14:31 Patrick W. Gilmore, wrote: > >> I must be old. All I can think is Kids These Days, and maybe Get Off My >> BGP, er Lawn. >> > > Maybe they ought to [puts on shades] mind their MANRS. > > M (scuttling away) > >>
Re: Are network operators morons? [was: CloudFlare issues?]
On Tue, 25 Jun 2019, 14:31 Patrick W. Gilmore, wrote: > I must be old. All I can think is Kids These Days, and maybe Get Off My > BGP, er Lawn. > Maybe they ought to [puts on shades] mind their MANRS. M (scuttling away) >
Are network operators morons? [was: CloudFlare issues?]
[Removing the attribution, because many people have made statements like this over the last day - or year. Just selecting this one as a succinct and recent example to illustrate the point.] >> This blog post, and your CEO on Twitter today, took every opportunity to say >> “DAMN THOSE MORONS AT 701!”. > Damn those morons at 701, period. I must be old. All I can think is Kids These Days, and maybe Get Off My BGP, er Lawn. Any company running a large, high complex infrastructure is going to make mistakes. Period. It is not like 701 is causing problems every week, or even ever year. If you think this one incident proves they are ‘morons’, you are only showing you are neither experienced nor mature enough to make that judgement. To be clear, they may well be morons. I no longer know many people architecting and operating 701’s backbone, so I cannot tell you first-hand how smart they are. Maybe they are stupid, but exceptionally lucky. However, the facts at hand do not support your blanket assertion, and making it does not speak well of you. OTOH, I do have first-hand experience with previous CF blog posts, and to say they spin things in their favor is being generous. But then, it’s a blog post, i.e. Marketing. What else would you expect? I know it is anathema to the ethos of the network engineers & architects to work together instead of hurling insults, but it would probably result in a better Internet. And isn’t that what we all (supposedly) want? -- TTFN, patrick
