Re: Cisco vs Adtran vs Juniper
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 11:55:44AM -0400, Paul Stewart wrote: Still wondering if anyone knows how the Cisco lifetime warranty really works...? You call up TAC, tell them you have a problem with your catalyst. Since the huge gray-market problem with cisco gear, they'll probably want proof that you are original owner, so you'll most likely need to dig up invoices showing buying from an authorized cisco dealer/distributer. If they are happy with your documentation, you get support. If its a security problem with the software version, they'll give you a link to download a fixed version. If you have bad hardware, you'll get it cross-shipped next-business-day. You still need Smartnet to get any version upgrade, or faster shipping than NBD.
Re: Cisco vs Adtran vs Juniper
On Jul 18, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Eric Van Tol wrote: I'm looking for some constructive feedback on **real world** experiences please... We're split pretty evenly between Cisco and Juniper boxes and are happy with both. It all really depends on the services you want to sell or support for your customers, as each box can do different things. I've been using both these boxes for a while, the SSGs in particular, so I'll chime in. Eric is right, the WebUI for ScreenOS is not very good, but it's far better than any of the interfaces I've seen on any other security devices. It has its quirks, but it does get the job done. I have no complaints about the SSG hardware, you get decent port density across the line and 90% of the functionality you will want is there out of the box with no additional licensing required (stateful firewall, IPSec, all routing protocols, etc). Don't bother with the Antivirus and Antispam on ScreenOS, it sucks and Juniper knows it. The web filtering works pretty well, though. They're very flexible with regards to interoperability with other vendors (even Cisco). I've connected one to just about every vendor imaginable and there is always a way to make it work. If you're looking for a cheap router/firewall/VPN box, then the SSGs from Juniper are the way to go right now. JunOS Enhanced Services could make our lives even better too... Both Cisco and Juniper offer great options for this. CPE from both is typically very solid. Juniper has the added benefit of being able to convert their J-series boxes to Netscreen SSG firewalls and the cards are interchangeable between the security/J-series platforms. Of course, this does cost you in license fees. NAT on the J-series is a pain to set up and unfortunately, the default 256M flash on them is just too small to support an easy JUNOS upgrade. What he said -- with the J series you get JunOS and now JunOS Enhanced Services, so you get a full-fledged firewall as well. No need to convert them to ScreenOS (unless you need a feature that hasn't been ported from ScreenOS to JunOS ES yet). The only thing I really don't like in the J series is the lack of a non rack mount form factor. A lot of small and branch offices don't necessarily have racks and it can be cumbersome to convince someone they need a 19 wide noisebox to be their router. More on JunOS ES: http://www.juniper.net/techpubs/software/junos-es/ Regards, M
RE: Cisco vs Adtran vs Juniper
Thanks very much we're looking a series of models currently and all the feedback I've received so far has been extremely helpful... Best regards! Paul -Original Message- From: Matthew Elmore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:19 AM To: nanog Subject: Re: Cisco vs Adtran vs Juniper On Jul 18, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Eric Van Tol wrote: I'm looking for some constructive feedback on **real world** experiences please... We're split pretty evenly between Cisco and Juniper boxes and are happy with both. It all really depends on the services you want to sell or support for your customers, as each box can do different things. I've been using both these boxes for a while, the SSGs in particular, so I'll chime in. Eric is right, the WebUI for ScreenOS is not very good, but it's far better than any of the interfaces I've seen on any other security devices. It has its quirks, but it does get the job done. I have no complaints about the SSG hardware, you get decent port density across the line and 90% of the functionality you will want is there out of the box with no additional licensing required (stateful firewall, IPSec, all routing protocols, etc). Don't bother with the Antivirus and Antispam on ScreenOS, it sucks and Juniper knows it. The web filtering works pretty well, though. They're very flexible with regards to interoperability with other vendors (even Cisco). I've connected one to just about every vendor imaginable and there is always a way to make it work. If you're looking for a cheap router/firewall/VPN box, then the SSGs from Juniper are the way to go right now. JunOS Enhanced Services could make our lives even better too... Both Cisco and Juniper offer great options for this. CPE from both is typically very solid. Juniper has the added benefit of being able to convert their J-series boxes to Netscreen SSG firewalls and the cards are interchangeable between the security/J-series platforms. Of course, this does cost you in license fees. NAT on the J-series is a pain to set up and unfortunately, the default 256M flash on them is just too small to support an easy JUNOS upgrade. What he said -- with the J series you get JunOS and now JunOS Enhanced Services, so you get a full-fledged firewall as well. No need to convert them to ScreenOS (unless you need a feature that hasn't been ported from ScreenOS to JunOS ES yet). The only thing I really don't like in the J series is the lack of a non rack mount form factor. A lot of small and branch offices don't necessarily have racks and it can be cumbersome to convince someone they need a 19 wide noisebox to be their router. More on JunOS ES: http://www.juniper.net/techpubs/software/junos-es/ Regards, M No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.3/1564 - Release Date: 7/21/2008 6:42 AM The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and contains confidential and/or privileged material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender immediately and then destroy this transmission, including all attachments, without copying, distributing or disclosing same. Thank you.
Cisco vs Adtran vs Juniper
Hi there.. I'm looking for some constructive feedback on **real world** experiences please... We're primarily a Cisco shop today - our core and distribution are all Cisco driven and will continue to be (won't change that so not worth discussing today). My question is oriented towards two other markets primarily: Security Devices Remote Office/Customer Site Devices Let me elaborate a bit more... Security - today, we've been deploying Cisco ASA boxes (was PIX before that) with pretty good success. However, in comparison to Juniper the Cisco boxes are *really* expensive - at least to us anyways. Juniper has nice products so I'm looking at proposing a solution internally to move towards the Juniper security appliances. Feedback from folks on them vs Cisco ASA?? Remote Office/Customer Site Devices - today, we do a lot of managed routers to customer sites. Again, cost driven, I'm being pushed towards looking at Adtran devices for customer sites that we maintain. I have nothing against Adtran but haven't viewed them to date as being in the same arena as Cisco/Juniper etc.. these routers are mainly providing basic firewalling/NAT and some very small VPN activity at times. To take this one step further, some of our voice folks are really enjoying the Adtran boxes as it offers an all in one solution which is a router, firewall, voice box (many options - PRI handoff, T1, FXS/FXO) and in some of their boxes 24 POE switch ports as well. This is kinda cool I'll admit but the approach in the past has been to drop in a Cisco router, Adtran for voice applications, and then Cisco POE switches if required. This is very costly compared to Adtran's all in one approach so am I being stubborn on this or is the Adtran products in this case in the same league?? I had some terrible track record with Adtran a number of years ago so my back gets up when their name is mentioned...;) Any feedback would be very appreciated - we're going to have meetings internally in the next while to decide which product lines fit with which service offerings the best Thanks, Paul The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and contains confidential and/or privileged material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender immediately and then destroy this transmission, including all attachments, without copying, distributing or disclosing same. Thank you.
Re: Cisco vs Adtran vs Juniper
On your last note Cisco also offers a all-in-one with all the features you talked about and more. They are called UC500's. _Chris On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Paul Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi there.. I'm looking for some constructive feedback on **real world** experiences please... We're primarily a Cisco shop today - our core and distribution are all Cisco driven and will continue to be (won't change that so not worth discussing today). My question is oriented towards two other markets primarily: Security Devices Remote Office/Customer Site Devices Let me elaborate a bit more... Security - today, we've been deploying Cisco ASA boxes (was PIX before that) with pretty good success. However, in comparison to Juniper the Cisco boxes are *really* expensive - at least to us anyways. Juniper has nice products so I'm looking at proposing a solution internally to move towards the Juniper security appliances. Feedback from folks on them vs Cisco ASA?? Remote Office/Customer Site Devices - today, we do a lot of managed routers to customer sites. Again, cost driven, I'm being pushed towards looking at Adtran devices for customer sites that we maintain. I have nothing against Adtran but haven't viewed them to date as being in the same arena as Cisco/Juniper etc.. these routers are mainly providing basic firewalling/NAT and some very small VPN activity at times. To take this one step further, some of our voice folks are really enjoying the Adtran boxes as it offers an all in one solution which is a router, firewall, voice box (many options - PRI handoff, T1, FXS/FXO) and in some of their boxes 24 POE switch ports as well. This is kinda cool I'll admit but the approach in the past has been to drop in a Cisco router, Adtran for voice applications, and then Cisco POE switches if required. This is very costly compared to Adtran's all in one approach so am I being stubborn on this or is the Adtran products in this case in the same league?? I had some terrible track record with Adtran a number of years ago so my back gets up when their name is mentioned...;) Any feedback would be very appreciated - we're going to have meetings internally in the next while to decide which product lines fit with which service offerings the best Thanks, Paul The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and contains confidential and/or privileged material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender immediately and then destroy this transmission, including all attachments, without copying, distributing or disclosing same. Thank you.
RE: Cisco vs Adtran vs Juniper
Thanks guys so far for the responses Adtran has a 5 year warranty and support for free as of today - I'm not aware of this changing but we've had a number of other companies change that policy in the past couple of years after purchasing a LOT of gear from them (Motorola, Redline come to mind among others). Cisco has lifetime hardware warranty on some of their gear but nobody has ever been able to tell me what that *really* means and how you would ever get it covered if you did NOT have Smartnet coverage...;) UC500's - nice boxes ... pure cost issues around this one. You need to add a 24 port switch if you want some form of density at additional cost... makes it 3X the Adtran price so gets a lot of attention here... Keep it coming guys.. appreciate it... Paul -Original Message- From: Smith, Steve B [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 11:44 AM To: Chris Heighway; Paul Stewart Cc: nanog Subject: RE: Cisco vs Adtran vs Juniper And remember Adtran has a 5 year warranty and support for free. -Original Message- From: Chris Heighway [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 10:22 AM To: Paul Stewart Cc: nanog Subject: Re: Cisco vs Adtran vs Juniper On your last note Cisco also offers a all-in-one with all the features you talked about and more. They are called UC500's. _Chris On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Paul Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi there.. I'm looking for some constructive feedback on **real world** experiences please... We're primarily a Cisco shop today - our core and distribution are all Cisco driven and will continue to be (won't change that so not worth discussing today). My question is oriented towards two other markets primarily: Security Devices Remote Office/Customer Site Devices Let me elaborate a bit more... Security - today, we've been deploying Cisco ASA boxes (was PIX before that) with pretty good success. However, in comparison to Juniper the Cisco boxes are *really* expensive - at least to us anyways. Juniper has nice products so I'm looking at proposing a solution internally to move towards the Juniper security appliances. Feedback from folks on them vs Cisco ASA?? Remote Office/Customer Site Devices - today, we do a lot of managed routers to customer sites. Again, cost driven, I'm being pushed towards looking at Adtran devices for customer sites that we maintain. I have nothing against Adtran but haven't viewed them to date as being in the same arena as Cisco/Juniper etc.. these routers are mainly providing basic firewalling/NAT and some very small VPN activity at times. To take this one step further, some of our voice folks are really enjoying the Adtran boxes as it offers an all in one solution which is a router, firewall, voice box (many options - PRI handoff, T1, FXS/FXO) and in some of their boxes 24 POE switch ports as well. This is kinda cool I'll admit but the approach in the past has been to drop in a Cisco router, Adtran for voice applications, and then Cisco POE switches if required. This is very costly compared to Adtran's all in one approach so am I being stubborn on this or is the Adtran products in this case in the same league?? I had some terrible track record with Adtran a number of years ago so my back gets up when their name is mentioned...;) Any feedback would be very appreciated - we're going to have meetings internally in the next while to decide which product lines fit with which service offerings the best Thanks, Paul -- -- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and contains confidential and/or privileged material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender immediately and then destroy this transmission, including all attachments, without copying, distributing or disclosing same. Thank you. * The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers. GA622
RE: Cisco vs Adtran vs Juniper
-Original Message- From: Paul Stewart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 11:48 AM To: Smith, Steve B; Chris Heighway Cc: nanog Subject: RE: Cisco vs Adtran vs Juniper Thanks guys so far for the responses Adtran has a 5 year warranty and support for free as of today - I'm not aware of this changing but we've had a number of other companies change that policy in the past couple of years after purchasing a LOT of gear from them (Motorola, Redline come to mind among others). I thought this was 10 years, but if not, I do apologize. They may have changed it to 5 recently?...I've always been led to believe by my highly cost-sensitive superiors that it's 10 years, but they often get things wrong just to get us to purchase the most cost-effective product out there. ;-) -evt
RE: Cisco vs Adtran vs Juniper
It could be 10 years.. not 100% sure 5 or 10 still makes a dent in Cisco's approach to be honest... Still wondering if anyone knows how the Cisco lifetime warranty really works...? Thanks again, Paul -Original Message- From: Eric Van Tol [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 11:53 AM To: Paul Stewart; Smith, Steve B; Chris Heighway Cc: nanog Subject: RE: Cisco vs Adtran vs Juniper -Original Message- From: Paul Stewart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 11:48 AM To: Smith, Steve B; Chris Heighway Cc: nanog Subject: RE: Cisco vs Adtran vs Juniper Thanks guys so far for the responses Adtran has a 5 year warranty and support for free as of today - I'm not aware of this changing but we've had a number of other companies change that policy in the past couple of years after purchasing a LOT of gear from them (Motorola, Redline come to mind among others). I thought this was 10 years, but if not, I do apologize. They may have changed it to 5 recently?...I've always been led to believe by my highly cost-sensitive superiors that it's 10 years, but they often get things wrong just to get us to purchase the most cost-effective product out there. ;-) -evt No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.1/1560 - Release Date: 7/18/2008 6:47 AM The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and contains confidential and/or privileged material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender immediately and then destroy this transmission, including all attachments, without copying, distributing or disclosing same. Thank you.
