Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
Thanks for the link to the vid. I see Geoff Huston spoke too. I've embedded both on http://www.isoc-ny.org/p2/?p=1713 FWIW Vint has been using this as an intro to IPv6 for years.. in fact I've got some video to edit of him speaking in 1999 - I'll look for it.. j On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 2:43 AM, Ben McGinnes b...@adversary.org wrote: On 28/01/11 7:03 AM, Jay Ashworth wrote: Let me clarify: The original question was (so far as I could see): Was Fox making up the quote where Vint took the blame for IPv4 exhaustion? The answer, of course, was no, they didn't; lots of people have the quote. If you want to see and hear footage of him repeating this and explaining, his keynote address to Linux Conf Australia is here: http://linuxconfau.blip.tv/file/4683393/ Regards, Ben -- --- Joly MacFie 218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org ---
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
You should do a rap song... IPv6, IPv4, it is all my fault! Internet was just an experiment - Original Message - From: Joly MacFie j...@punkcast.com To: Ben McGinnes b...@adversary.org Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Sunday, 30 January, 2011 6:36:21 AM Subject: Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses Thanks for the link to the vid. I see Geoff Huston spoke too. I've embedded both on http://www.isoc-ny.org/p2/?p=1713 FWIW Vint has been using this as an intro to IPv6 for years.. in fact I've got some video to edit of him speaking in 1999 - I'll look for it.. j
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
On 28/01/11 7:03 AM, Jay Ashworth wrote: Let me clarify: The original question was (so far as I could see): Was Fox making up the quote where Vint took the blame for IPv4 exhaustion? The answer, of course, was no, they didn't; lots of people have the quote. If you want to see and hear footage of him repeating this and explaining, his keynote address to Linux Conf Australia is here: http://linuxconfau.blip.tv/file/4683393/ Regards, Ben signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
World to run out of IP addresses soon, Internet expert says http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/sci/2011-01/26/c_13708282.htm Vint Cerf, who helped create IPv4 in 1977 and one of the founding fathers of the Web, told Australia's Sydney Morning Herald that IP addresses will be used up soon, perhaps within weeks. I thought it was an experiment and I thought that 4.3 billion IPv4 addresses would be enough to do an experiment, Cerf was quoted as saying, adding it is his fault that we were running out of the addresses. Glad we cleared that up! :-) -Hank
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
Class Action? ;-) ...Skeeve -- Skeeve Stevens, CEO eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists ske...@eintellego.net / www.eintellego.net Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954 Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 / skype://skeeve www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve ; facebook.com/eintellego -- eintellego - The Experts that the Experts call - Juniper - HP Networking - Cisco - Brocade - Arista - Allied Telesis Disclaimer: Limits of Liability and Disclaimer: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain sensitive and private proprietary or legally privileged information. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. eintellego Pty Ltd and each legal entity in the Tefilah Pty Ltd group of companies reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorised to state them to be the views of any such entity. Any reference to costs, fee quotations, contractual transactions and variations to contract terms is subject to separate confirmation in writing signed by an authorised representative of eintellego. Whilst all efforts are made to safeguard inbound and outbound e-mails, we cannot guarantee that attachments are virus-free or compatible with your systems and do not accept any liability in respect of viruses or computer problems experienced. -Original Message- From: Hank Nussbacher h...@efes.iucc.ac.il Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 22:21:20 +1100 To: nanog@nanog.org nanog@nanog.org Subject: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses World to run out of IP addresses soon, Internet expert says http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/sci/2011-01/26/c_13708282.htm Vint Cerf, who helped create IPv4 in 1977 and one of the founding fathers of the Web, told Australia's Sydney Morning Herald that IP addresses will be used up soon, perhaps within weeks. I thought it was an experiment and I thought that 4.3 billion IPv4 addresses would be enough to do an experiment, Cerf was quoted as saying, adding it is his fault that we were running out of the addresses. Glad we cleared that up! :-) -Hank
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
On 27/01/2011 11:21, Hank Nussbacher wrote: I thought it was an experiment and I thought that 4.3 billion IPv4 addresses would be enough to do an experiment, Cerf was quoted as saying, adding it is his fault that we were running out of the addresses. Fortunately, web developers have fixed the problem according to Fox news: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/01/26/internet-run-ip-addresses-happens-anyones-guess/ Web developers have tried to compensate for this problem by creating IPv6 -- a system that recognizes six-digit IP addresses rather than four-digit ones. It will be difficult initially, though: But IPv6 isn't backwards-compatible with IPv4, meaning that it's not able to read most content that operates on an IPv4 system. At best, the user experience will be clunky and slow. At worst, instead of a webpage, all users will be able to view is a blank page. I'm glad Fox has cleared all this up for us. Nick
RE: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
Him, admitting fault, well then, why should we spend money on IPv6, if it's his fault does that mean he will come to our business to roll out v6? Let's get a list together of who he will visit first :) G Gary Steers Sharedband NOC/3rd Line Support E: gary.ste...@sharedband.com -Original Message- From: Hank Nussbacher [mailto:h...@efes.iucc.ac.il] Sent: 27 January 2011 11:21 To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses World to run out of IP addresses soon, Internet expert says http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/sci/2011-01/26/c_13708282.htm Vint Cerf, who helped create IPv4 in 1977 and one of the founding fathers of the Web, told Australia's Sydney Morning Herald that IP addresses will be used up soon, perhaps within weeks. I thought it was an experiment and I thought that 4.3 billion IPv4 addresses would be enough to do an experiment, Cerf was quoted as saying, adding it is his fault that we were running out of the addresses. Glad we cleared that up! :-) -Hank
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
At 12:24 27/01/2011 +, Nick Hilliard wrote: On 27/01/2011 11:21, Hank Nussbacher wrote: I thought it was an experiment and I thought that 4.3 billion IPv4 addresses would be enough to do an experiment, Cerf was quoted as saying, adding it is his fault that we were running out of the addresses. Fortunately, web developers have fixed the problem according to Fox news: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/01/26/internet-run-ip-addresses-happens-anyones-guess/ Web developers have tried to compensate for this problem by creating IPv6 -- a system that recognizes six-digit IP addresses rather than four-digit ones. It will be difficult initially, though: But IPv6 isn't backwards-compatible with IPv4, meaning that it's not able to read most content that operates on an IPv4 system. At best, the user experience will be clunky and slow. At worst, instead of a webpage, all users will be able to view is a blank page. I'm glad Fox has cleared all this up for us. I guess they are hiring TSA rejects. No other way to explain the cluelessness :-) -Hank Nick
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
On Jan 27, 2011, at 4:24 AM, Nick Hilliard wrote: On 27/01/2011 11:21, Hank Nussbacher wrote: I thought it was an experiment and I thought that 4.3 billion IPv4 addresses would be enough to do an experiment, Cerf was quoted as saying, adding it is his fault that we were running out of the addresses. Fortunately, web developers have fixed the problem according to Fox news: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/01/26/internet-run-ip-addresses-happens-anyones-guess/ Web developers have tried to compensate for this problem by creating IPv6 -- a system that recognizes six-digit IP addresses rather than four-digit ones. Consider the source... Fox -- All the news that's fit to misquote. (or something like that). Those guys never get anything technical or political right.* It will be difficult initially, though: But IPv6 isn't backwards-compatible with IPv4, meaning that it's not able to read most content that operates on an IPv4 system. At best, the user experience will be clunky and slow. At worst, instead of a webpage, all users will be able to view is a blank page. I'm glad Fox has cleared all this up for us. ROFLMAO Owen *In order for Fox to sue me for libel, they first have to prove my statement is false.
RE: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
I'm a bit torn on this issue. I haven't even heard any other main-stream sources say anything on this topic. But Incorrect info is bad too. I hope the viewers who watched this are getting the gist that Something wicked this way comes. :) LOL - Brian J. -Original Message- From: Owen DeLong [mailto:o...@delong.com] Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 7:49 AM To: Nick Hilliard Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses On Jan 27, 2011, at 4:24 AM, Nick Hilliard wrote: On 27/01/2011 11:21, Hank Nussbacher wrote: I thought it was an experiment and I thought that 4.3 billion IPv4 addresses would be enough to do an experiment, Cerf was quoted as saying, adding it is his fault that we were running out of the addresses. Fortunately, web developers have fixed the problem according to Fox news: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/01/26/internet-run-ip-addresses- happens-anyones-guess/ Web developers have tried to compensate for this problem by creating IPv6 -- a system that recognizes six-digit IP addresses rather than four-digit ones. Consider the source... Fox -- All the news that's fit to misquote. (or something like that). Those guys never get anything technical or political right.* It will be difficult initially, though: But IPv6 isn't backwards-compatible with IPv4, meaning that it's not able to read most content that operates on an IPv4 system. At best, the user experience will be clunky and slow. At worst, instead of a webpage, all users will be able to view is a blank page. I'm glad Fox has cleared all this up for us. ROFLMAO Owen *In order for Fox to sue me for libel, they first have to prove my statement is false.
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Brian Johnson bjohn...@drtel.com wrote: I'm a bit torn on this issue. I haven't even heard any other main-stream sources say anything on this topic. But Incorrect info is bad too. I hope the viewers who watched this are getting the gist that Something wicked this way comes. :) I believe that's the only message foxnews puts out, if their viewing audience is missing that... then we all have very much larger issues :(
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/01/26/internet-run-ip-addresses-happens-anyones-guess/ It's the end of the web as we know it. We are doomed !! Glad to know that, since a large percentage of it suxs. Can we go back to the ftp.funet.fi (still up !! ) and gopher ? Cheers Jorge
RE: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
I really wish people would keep their personal/political bias outside the list unless it is specific and relevant. What other main-stream news organization has made any reports on this issue? To be clear, FOX screwed this up big time, but that doesn't mean we all need to get out our personal/political pitchforks and run them out of town. Take your Ritalin. :) - Brian J. -Original Message- From: christopher.mor...@gmail.com [mailto:christopher.mor...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Morrow Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 11:05 AM To: Brian Johnson Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Brian Johnson bjohn...@drtel.com wrote: I'm a bit torn on this issue. I haven't even heard any other main-stream sources say anything on this topic. But Incorrect info is bad too. I hope the viewers who watched this are getting the gist that Something wicked this way comes. :) I believe that's the only message foxnews puts out, if their viewing audience is missing that... then we all have very much larger issues :(
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
On Jan 27, 2011, at 12:59 PM, Jorge Amodio wrote: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/01/26/internet-run-ip-addresses-happens-anyones-guess/ It's the end of the web as we know it. We are doomed !! Glad to know that, since a large percentage of it suxs. Can we go back to the ftp.funet.fi (still up !! ) and gopher ? Which host? archie.sura.net - Jared
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
On Jan 27, 2011, at 1:34 PM, Brian Johnson wrote: I really wish people would keep their personal/political bias outside the list unless it is specific and relevant. What other main-stream news organization has made any reports on this issue? As much as I agree with the comments people have made, you're right, they aren't appropriate for this forum. However, it *is* possible to cover properly: IP Address Shortage Has ISPs Scrambling For Space http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128907099 Bear with us while we go a little deeper into the digital landscape. We're going to talk about IPv4 exhaustion next. Don't be scared - we'll break it down. Here it goes. Everything that can be connected directly to the Internet - computers, cell phones, game systems, TVs, even cars - has an Internet Protocol, or IP address. IP version 4, or IPv4, has just over 4 billion unique addresses. But with so many Internet-ready devices on the market, the current supply of IP addresses will run out sometime next year. John Curran is going to explain what that means for Internet users. He's the president and CEO of the American Registry for Internet Numbers, and he's in the studio at member station KPBS in San Diego. Welcome to the program.
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
- Original Message - From: Brian Johnson bjohn...@drtel.com I really wish people would keep their personal/political bias outside the list unless it is specific and relevant. What other main-stream news organization has made any reports on this issue? To be clear, FOX screwed this up big time, but that doesn't mean we all need to get out our personal/political pitchforks and run them out of town. Take your Ritalin. :-) Fox didn't screw up, for a change, and Vint's quote appears in many other news sources. Apparently, I'm the only one on Nanog who knows about this new thing called The Google. :-) Thinking that Fox News is not a reputable news source is not, indeed, an opinion attributable *solely* to non-Republicans, and indeed, it's easy to prove in a documentary, non-partisan fashion. Cheers, -- jra
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
[ Sorry; forgot to address this to the list, earlier. ] - Original Message - From: Brian Johnson bjohn...@drtel.com I'm a bit torn on this issue. I haven't even heard any other main-stream sources say anything on this topic. But Incorrect info is bad too. I hope the viewers who watched this are getting the gist that Something wicked this way comes. :) Vint was quoted as saying this some months ago, I believe in a story linked from Slashdot on a reputable news outlet. Sure enough: https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=vint+cerf+IP+address Cheers, -- jra
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
On Thu, 27 Jan 2011, Jay Ashworth wrote: Fox didn't screw up, for a change, and Vint's quote appears in many other news sources. Apparently, I'm the only one on Nanog who knows about this new thing called The Google. :-) Fox (in the linked article) didn't quote Vint. They said useful things like this: source: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/01/26/internet-run-ip-addresses-happens-anyones-guess/ It's the end of the web as we know it. And this is -not- what the article said before: Web developers have compensated for this problem by creating IPv6 -- a system which recognizes 128-bit addresses as opposed to IPv4's 32-bit addresses. Originally (an hour ago) it read something like Web developers have compensated for this problem by creating IPv6 -- a system which uses 6 digit addresses instead of 4 digit addresses But IPv6 isn't backwards-compatible with IPv4, meaning that it's not able to read most content that operates on an IPv4 system. At best, the user experience will be clunky and slow. At worst, instead of a webpage, all users will be able to view is a blank page. -- david raistrickhttp://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html dr...@icantclick.org http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
here's the original quote (which a friend had pasted to me): Web developers have tried to compensate for this problem by creating IPv6 -- a system that recognizes six-digit IP addresses rather than four-digit ones. On Thu, 27 Jan 2011, david raistrick wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011, Jay Ashworth wrote: Fox didn't screw up, for a change, and Vint's quote appears in many other news sources. Apparently, I'm the only one on Nanog who knows about this new thing called The Google. :-) Fox (in the linked article) didn't quote Vint. They said useful things like this: source: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/01/26/internet-run-ip-addresses-happens-anyones-guess/ It's the end of the web as we know it. And this is -not- what the article said before: Web developers have compensated for this problem by creating IPv6 -- a system which recognizes 128-bit addresses as opposed to IPv4's 32-bit addresses. Originally (an hour ago) it read something like Web developers have compensated for this problem by creating IPv6 -- a system which uses 6 digit addresses instead of 4 digit addresses But IPv6 isn't backwards-compatible with IPv4, meaning that it's not able to read most content that operates on an IPv4 system. At best, the user experience will be clunky and slow. At worst, instead of a webpage, all users will be able to view is a blank page. -- david raistrickhttp://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html dr...@icantclick.org http://www.expita.com/nomime.html -- david raistrickhttp://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html dr...@icantclick.org http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
On 1/27/2011 2:43 PM, david raistrick wrote: here's the original quote (which a friend had pasted to me): Web developers have tried to compensate for this problem by creating IPv6 -- a system that recognizes six-digit IP addresses rather than four-digit ones. And as replied privately to someone else earlier, that was quoted from Fox news IPv6 website, http://ww.foxnews.com :-) Jeff
RE: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
-Original Message- From: Jay Ashworth [mailto:j...@baylink.com] Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 2:06 PM To: NANOG Subject: Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses - Original Message - From: Brian Johnson bjohn...@drtel.com To be clear, FOX screwed this up big time, but that doesn't mean we all need to get out our personal/political pitchforks and run them out of town. Take your Ritalin. :-) Fox didn't screw up, for a change, and Vint's quote appears in many other news sources. Apparently, I'm the only one on Nanog who knows about this new thing called The Google. :-) Thinking that Fox News is not a reputable news source is not, indeed, an opinion attributable *solely* to non-Republicans, and indeed, it's easy to prove in a documentary, non-partisan fashion. [WES] Don't kid yourself, defending a reputable news organization for not properly checking their facts on a technical story before publishing is politically motivated too, especially when you try to imply that being willing to call out inaccurate (technical) info in the news is somehow related to one's political party. The article that everyone is causing everyone to make fun of Fox news for says nothing about Vint. Fox news has posted two separate articles, both of which have been factually incorrect. http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/01/26/internet-run-ip-addresses-happens-anyones-guess/ and http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/07/26/world-run-internet-addresses-year-experts-predict/ They at least corrected the first one - Editors' Note: An earlier version of this story erroneously described an IP address as consisting of four digits, rather than four sets of digits, and inaccurately described the IP address. This story has been updated to reflect the correction. But this gem still exists in the first article: Web developers have compensated for this problem by creating IPv6. At least there's *probably* some web developers at IETF that might have had a hand in creating IPv6, so that one's not technically incorrect... The second one from several months ago is still borked: IPv4, ... the unique 32-digit number used to identify each computer, website or internet-connected device. ... The solution to the problem is IPv6, which uses a 128-digit address. So, first it was 32 digits, then it was 4 digits... FWIW, Marketplace (on NPR) did a story the other night too. It wasn't necessarily incorrect, but it was so dumbed down that they managed to talk about IPv4 exhaustion without mentioning the words IPv4 or IPv6 http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/01/25/pm-internet-running-out-of-digital-addresses/ Wes George smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
Let me clarify: The original question was (so far as I could see): Was Fox making up the quote where Vint took the blame for IPv4 exhaustion? The answer, of course, was no, they didn't; lots of people have the quote. I wasn't speaking to the technical details of the actual piece, which, clearly, I didn't read. :-) Cheers -- jra
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
George, Wes E [NTK] wrote: The second one from several months ago is still borked: IPv4, ... the unique 32-digit number used to identify each computer, website or internet-connected device. ... The solution to the problem is IPv6, which uses a 128-digit address. So, first it was 32 digits, then it was 4 digits... . Wes George Confusion can be purposeful. See http://www.justicequest.net/forums/showpost.php?p=457015postcount=4 Perhaps, it would be possible to effect some - *to switch-off* their netted computers/devices for a period no less than 6 months - such that their computers/devices are able to properly adjust to changes. O:-) Best.
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
What I don't understand is I can only guess they must have a IT team. And Maybe even 1 or more people that view this list. Why don't they just talk to there own staff about the issues? Maybe one of the IT guess saw the issues talked about the articles and contacted the news team about the bad info. I donno. I agree they kind of did a poor job on this. If you work at FOX maybe you should help get the news guys on the right page. :) Sincerely, Mark On 1/27/2011 11:51 AM, George, Wes E [NTK] wrote: -Original Message- From: Jay Ashworth [mailto:j...@baylink.com] Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 2:06 PM To: NANOG Subject: Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses - Original Message - From: Brian Johnson bjohn...@drtel.com To be clear, FOX screwed this up big time, but that doesn't mean we all need to get out our personal/political pitchforks and run them out of town. Take your Ritalin. :-) Fox didn't screw up, for a change, and Vint's quote appears in many other news sources. Apparently, I'm the only one on Nanog who knows about this new thing called The Google. :-) Thinking that Fox News is not a reputable news source is not, indeed, an opinion attributable *solely* to non-Republicans, and indeed, it's easy to prove in a documentary, non-partisan fashion. [WES] Don't kid yourself, defending a reputable news organization for not properly checking their facts on a technical story before publishing is politically motivated too, especially when you try to imply that being willing to call out inaccurate (technical) info in the news is somehow related to one's political party. The article that everyone is causing everyone to make fun of Fox news for says nothing about Vint. Fox news has posted two separate articles, both of which have been factually incorrect. http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/01/26/internet-run-ip-addresses-happens-anyones-guess/ and http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/07/26/world-run-internet-addresses-year-experts-predict/ They at least corrected the first one - Editors' Note: An earlier version of this story erroneously described an IP address as consisting of four digits, rather than four sets of digits, and inaccurately described the IP address. This story has been updated to reflect the correction. But this gem still exists in the first article: Web developers have compensated for this problem by creating IPv6. At least there's *probably* some web developers at IETF that might have had a hand in creating IPv6, so that one's not technically incorrect... The second one from several months ago is still borked: IPv4, ... the unique 32-digit number used to identify each computer, website or internet-connected device. ... The solution to the problem is IPv6, which uses a 128-digit address. So, first it was 32 digits, then it was 4 digits... FWIW, Marketplace (on NPR) did a story the other night too. It wasn't necessarily incorrect, but it was so dumbed down that they managed to talk about IPv4 exhaustion without mentioning the words IPv4 or IPv6 http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/01/25/pm-internet-running-out-of-digital-addresses/ Wes George
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:26:58PM -0800, Mark Keymer wrote: What I don't understand is I can only guess they must have a IT team. And Maybe even 1 or more people that view this list. Why don't they just talk to there own staff about the issues? Maybe one of the IT guess saw the issues talked about the articles and contacted the news team about the bad info. I donno. I agree they kind of did a poor job on this. If you work at FOX maybe you should help get the news guys on the right page. :) My experience working with newspaper and TV reporters leads me to believe that they can't recognize when they're on the wrong page, and will sacrifice accuracy to catchy titles and text simplified to the point of being ludicrously wrong -- at least when it comes to topics such as computers, networking, and spam. I certainly don't expect any better of Fox. Remember that study on people so incompetent that they can't recognize their own incompetence? That's it, in spades. -- Mike Andrews, W5EGO mi...@mikea.ath.cx Tired old sysadmin
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
On Thursday, January 27, 2011 03:26:58 pm Mark Keymer wrote: If you work at FOX maybe you should help get the news guys on the right page. :) Coming from broadcast engineering prior to my current IT gig, let me tell you that in most larger broadcast organizations the tech folk are rather fortunate if the talent knows who they are at all, and even more fortunate if the talent takes instruction from them; the right people to get to are the producers. Most of the time, large broadcaster talent and producers (and managers) aren't terribly receptive to corrections from technical staff. I was in a very good situation in the stations for which I worked; but they were smaller organizations. I always felt like a valuable part of the team, and I and the talent were great friends, as they knew I cared about making them look and sound good. In the age of conglomeration, central IT/engineering, and outsourcing, it may be that the actual production outfit for whom the talent directly works is not the same organization for whom the IT folk work, and the broadcast tech folk may work for someone entirely different. Additionally, the IT and tech staff are many of the times terribly understaffed, and may not even pay attention to the actual product going over the air, concentrating on the transmission, computer, automation, or studio operations/production systems technical operation rather than the content transmitted. Or they're fixing yet another virus infection; perhaps they might even get docked for correcting such an error with 'shouldn't you have been working instead of watching our news?' Now, if that tech happens to be the operator on duty in master control, he or she can sometimes have QA feedback capability, but not always, and almost never directly to the talent. So, a good case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand does. And once it is on the air, it's very difficult to get it changed; egg in the face, you know. The fact that it was changed at all should speak volumes, IMO. Someone did catch at least part of the error, and had sufficient feedback capability to get it corrected.
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
I consider it to be very much part of the general attitude of news organisations towards the online content. It seems in general that very little editorial oversight takes place with online content, compared to what might appear in print. Often seems rather much like the content comes direct from the journalists, which any editor will tell you is generally a bad idea! Part of the problem has been perfectly demonstrated by this article. Having published something inaccurate and had lots of people jump on them in the comments, they've since updated and fixed the faults. Never mind that there are who knows how many people who have read it already and now have the wrong idea, as long as it's correct now, right? Paul On 01/27/2011 10:26 AM, Mark Keymer wrote: What I don't understand is I can only guess they must have a IT team. And Maybe even 1 or more people that view this list. Why don't they just talk to there own staff about the issues? Maybe one of the IT guess saw the issues talked about the articles and contacted the news team about the bad info. I donno. I agree they kind of did a poor job on this. If you work at FOX maybe you should help get the news guys on the right page. :) Sincerely, Mark On 1/27/2011 11:51 AM, George, Wes E [NTK] wrote: -Original Message- From: Jay Ashworth [mailto:j...@baylink.com] Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 2:06 PM To: NANOG Subject: Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses - Original Message - From: Brian Johnsonbjohn...@drtel.com To be clear, FOX screwed this up big time, but that doesn't mean we all need to get out our personal/political pitchforks and run them out of town. Take your Ritalin. :-) Fox didn't screw up, for a change, and Vint's quote appears in many other news sources. Apparently, I'm the only one on Nanog who knows about this new thing called The Google. :-) Thinking that Fox News is not a reputable news source is not, indeed, an opinion attributable *solely* to non-Republicans, and indeed, it's easy to prove in a documentary, non-partisan fashion. [WES] Don't kid yourself, defending a reputable news organization for not properly checking their facts on a technical story before publishing is politically motivated too, especially when you try to imply that being willing to call out inaccurate (technical) info in the news is somehow related to one's political party. The article that everyone is causing everyone to make fun of Fox news for says nothing about Vint. Fox news has posted two separate articles, both of which have been factually incorrect. http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/01/26/internet-run-ip-addresses-happens-anyones-guess/ and http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/07/26/world-run-internet-addresses-year-experts-predict/ They at least corrected the first one - Editors' Note: An earlier version of this story erroneously described an IP address as consisting of four digits, rather than four sets of digits, and inaccurately described the IP address. This story has been updated to reflect the correction. But this gem still exists in the first article: Web developers have compensated for this problem by creating IPv6. At least there's *probably* some web developers at IETF that might have had a hand in creating IPv6, so that one's not technically incorrect... The second one from several months ago is still borked: IPv4, ... the unique 32-digit number used to identify each computer, website or internet-connected device. ... The solution to the problem is IPv6, which uses a 128-digit address. So, first it was 32 digits, then it was 4 digits... FWIW, Marketplace (on NPR) did a story the other night too. It wasn't necessarily incorrect, but it was so dumbed down that they managed to talk about IPv4 exhaustion without mentioning the words IPv4 or IPv6 http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/01/25/pm-internet-running-out-of-digital-addresses/ Wes George
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
On 1/27/2011 12:56 PM, Lamar Owen wrote: On Thursday, January 27, 2011 03:26:58 pm Mark Keymer wrote: If you work at FOX maybe you should help get the news guys on the right page. :) Coming from broadcast engineering prior to my current IT gig, let me tell you that in most larger broadcast organizations the tech folk are rather fortunate if the talent knows who they are at all, and even more fortunate if the talent takes instruction from them; the right people to get to are the producers. Most of the time, large broadcaster talent and producers (and managers) aren't terribly receptive to corrections from technical staff. Actually I would say they resist those corrections since they make the impetus of their fear-raising the earth is flat commentary what it is - something specifically to sell advertising content and to ensure they can from their perspective properly value their ad space. I was in a very good situation in the stations for which I worked; but they were smaller organizations. I always felt like a valuable part of the team, and I and the talent were great friends, as they knew I cared about making them look and sound good. In the age of conglomeration, central IT/engineering, and outsourcing, it may be that the actual production outfit for whom the talent directly works is not the same organization for whom the IT folk work, and the broadcast tech folk may work for someone entirely different. Additionally, the IT and tech staff are many of the times terribly understaffed, and may not even pay attention to the actual product going over the air, concentrating on the transmission, computer, automation, or studio operations/production systems technical operation rather than the content transmitted. Or they're fixing yet another virus infection; perhaps they might even get docked for correcting such an error with 'shouldn't you have been working instead of watching our news?' Now, if that tech happens to be the operator on duty in master control, he or she can sometimes have QA feedback capability, but not always, and almost never directly to the talent. So, a good case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand does. The real problem is when the mind controlling the hands cannot keep the right hand and left hand synchronized on which ones responsibility rezipping the pants is... And once it is on the air, it's very difficult to get it changed; egg in the face, you know. The fact that it was changed at all should speak volumes, IMO. Someone did catch at least part of the error, and had sufficient feedback capability to get it corrected. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3406 - Release Date: 01/27/11
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
On Jan 27, 2011, at 4:53 22PM, mikea wrote: On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:26:58PM -0800, Mark Keymer wrote: What I don't understand is I can only guess they must have a IT team. And Maybe even 1 or more people that view this list. Why don't they just talk to there own staff about the issues? Maybe one of the IT guess saw the issues talked about the articles and contacted the news team about the bad info. I donno. I agree they kind of did a poor job on this. If you work at FOX maybe you should help get the news guys on the right page. :) My experience working with newspaper and TV reporters leads me to believe that they can't recognize when they're on the wrong page, and will sacrifice accuracy to catchy titles and text simplified to the point of being ludicrously wrong -- at least when it comes to topics such as computers, networking, and spam. I certainly don't expect any better of Fox. Mmm... I've dealt with the press a lot. In general, the reporters from well-respected news organizations really are a lot better. One can argue cause and effect; the fact remains that when I've talked to the NY Times, the Wall Street Journal, NPR, and the Washington Post, I've been a lot happier with what appeared than when, say, I've spoken with (quite literally) Entertainment Weekly. No, the major outlets haven't been perfect, and I've occasionally spoken with reporters who, shall we say, didn't know which end the high-order bit was on; in general, though, my comments hold. Fox? Since I don't see that the Tea Party has any particular axe to grind here (the administration is neither pushing IPv6 on a reluctant private sector nor is it responsible for the forthcoming debacle), they're probably in the middle of the pack. --Steve Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 08:20:54PM -0500, Steven Bellovin wrote: On Jan 27, 2011, at 4:53 22PM, mikea wrote: On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:26:58PM -0800, Mark Keymer wrote: What I don't understand is I can only guess they must have a IT team. And Maybe even 1 or more people that view this list. Why don't they just talk to there own staff about the issues? Maybe one of the IT guess saw the issues talked about the articles and contacted the news team about the bad info. I donno. I agree they kind of did a poor job on this. If you work at FOX maybe you should help get the news guys on the right page. :) My experience working with newspaper and TV reporters leads me to believe that they can't recognize when they're on the wrong page, and will sacrifice accuracy to catchy titles and text simplified to the point of being ludicrously wrong -- at least when it comes to topics such as computers, networking, and spam. I certainly don't expect any better of Fox. Mmm... I've dealt with the press a lot. In general, the reporters from well-respected news organizations really are a lot better. One can argue cause and effect; the fact remains that when I've talked to the NY Times, the Wall Street Journal, NPR, and the Washington Post, I've been a lot happier with what appeared than when, say, I've spoken with (quite literally) Entertainment Weekly. No, the major outlets haven't been perfect, and I've occasionally spoken with reporters who, shall we say, didn't know which end the high-order bit was on; in general, though, my comments hold. Fox? Since I don't see that the Tea Party has any particular axe to grind here (the administration is neither pushing IPv6 on a reluctant private sector nor is it responsible for the forthcoming debacle), they're probably in the middle of the pack. Mine was considerably less exalted: network TV stations and the local poor excuse for a newspaper. The newspaper reporter tried, but just got it *so* wrong. The TV folks didn't even try, and got it even wronger. I was being interviewed on spam and botnets, which is a fairly arcane topic, and wasn't surprised. -- Mike Andrews, W5EGO mi...@mikea.ath.cx Tired old sysadmin
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Brian Johnson bjohn...@drtel.com wrote: I really wish people would keep their personal/political bias outside the list unless it is specific and relevant. What other main-stream news organization has made any reports on this issue? To be clear, FOX screwed this up big time, but that doesn't mean we all need to get out our personal/political pitchforks and run them out of town. Take your Ritalin. :) not to beat a dead horse, but... I hadn't realized i said anything political in my statement. thanks, and as another frequent poster says: Drive slow! -chris
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
On 1/27/2011 6:24 AM, Nick Hilliard wrote: On 27/01/2011 11:21, Hank Nussbacher wrote: I thought it was an experiment and I thought that 4.3 billion IPv4 addresses would be enough to do an experiment, Cerf was quoted as saying, adding it is his fault that we were running out of the addresses. Fortunately, web developers have fixed the problem according to Fox news: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/01/26/internet-run-ip-addresses-happens-anyones-guess/ Web developers have tried to compensate for this problem by creating IPv6 -- a system that recognizes six-digit IP addresses rather than four-digit ones. It will be difficult initially, though: But IPv6 isn't backwards-compatible with IPv4, meaning that it's not able to read most content that operates on an IPv4 system. At best, the user experience will be clunky and slow. At worst, instead of a webpage, all users will be able to view is a blank page. I'm glad Fox has cleared all this up for us. Actually, Fox News got the article -- glaring technical inaccuracies and all -- from www.news.com.au: http://www.news.com.au/technology/the-internet-has-run-out-of-ip-addresses-and-what-happens-after-that-is-anyones-guess/story-e6frfro0-1225995086627 Of course, you won't find (most of) the inaccuracies there now; they edited the article after the fact (and after Fox copied them). The only proof I had for myself reading it later were my logged peanut-gallery comments in #ipv6: 14:03 jima Web developers have tried to compensate for this problem by creating IPv6 - a system which recognises six-digit IP addresses. 14:04 jima web developers? *wince* six-digit IP addresses? *cringe* 14:05 jima i'm gonna give mr. hutson a piece of my mind! ...if i could figure out who he is. :-\ After the edit, I did snark via Twitter, Media Trolling 101: 1. Write #IPv6 story w/ glaring tech. inaccuracies. 2. Get story picked up by FoxNews. 3. Fix inaccuracies. 4. Laugh. ( http://twitter.com/neojima/status/30644080144818176 ) So, yes, while this was an example of news coverage gone terribly wrong, we can't blame Fox alone. (There is, however, such a thing as fact-checking, but that's a secondary point.) Jima
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
On Jan 27, 2011, at 11:06 AM, Jay Ashworth wrote: - Original Message - From: Brian Johnson bjohn...@drtel.com I really wish people would keep their personal/political bias outside the list unless it is specific and relevant. What other main-stream news organization has made any reports on this issue? To be clear, FOX screwed this up big time, but that doesn't mean we all need to get out our personal/political pitchforks and run them out of town. Take your Ritalin. :-) Fox didn't screw up, for a change, and Vint's quote appears in many other news sources. Apparently, I'm the only one on Nanog who knows about this new thing called The Google. :-) I don't think Vint's quote was the part where we thought Fox screwed up. Web developers have it fixed (or something to that effect) on the other hand... Thinking that Fox News is not a reputable news source is not, indeed, an opinion attributable *solely* to non-Republicans, and indeed, it's easy to prove in a documentary, non-partisan fashion. Yep. Owen
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
- Original Message - From: Owen DeLong o...@delong.com Fox didn't screw up, for a change, and Vint's quote appears in many other news sources. Apparently, I'm the only one on Nanog who knows about this new thing called The Google. :-) I don't think Vint's quote was the part where we thought Fox screwed up. Yes; that was cleared up for me. :-) -- jra
Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
On Jan 27, 2011, at 10:34 AM, Brian Johnson wrote: I really wish people would keep their personal/political bias outside the list unless it is specific and relevant. What other main-stream news organization has made any reports on this issue? CNN, which actually got it right several months ago. Owen
RE: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses
-Original Message- From: Jay Ashworth [mailto:j...@baylink.com] Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 9:51 PM To: NANOG Subject: Re: Found: Who is responsible for no more IP addresses - Original Message - From: Owen DeLong o...@delong.com Fox didn't screw up, for a change, and Vint's quote appears in many other news sources. Apparently, I'm the only one on Nanog who knows about this new thing called The Google. :-) I don't think Vint's quote was the part where we thought Fox screwed up. Yes; that was cleared up for me. :-) -- jra It isn't even a Fox News story, it comes from a News Corp affiliate by Claire Connelly in Australia. The original is here: http://www.news.com.au/technology/the-internet-has-run-out-of-ip-addresses-and-what-happens-after-that-is-anyones-guess/story-e6frfro0-1225995086627 Take a look at the stories, they run AP content just like everyone else along with articles from affiliates around the world.
