Re: Hostexploit report/Intercage/Esthost

2008-10-13 Thread Simon Waters
On Monday 13 October 2008 15:30:07 Konstantin Poltev wrote:
> 
> and Spamhaus itself claims not to be
> subject to any US laws, where it clearly does business. 

The Spamhaus website lists addresses in the UK and Switzerland.

They appear to operate from the UK, and they claim to be subject to UK law.

Searching for "spamhaus jurisdiction" answers this in the first paragraph of 
the first result, not that Google is always this accurate.

Spamhaus might not be perfect, but they demonstrably provide the best public 
source of information on spam sources on the Internet. As such criticizing 
them makes you look suspect in the eyes of those who have very positive 
experiences of spamhaus's data, and who are use to seeing criticism of them 
come almost exclusively from shady characters. If they are wrong say so, and 
tell them, they've always been very responsive to communications in the past, 
but don't rant.



Hostexploit report/Intercage/Esthost

2008-10-13 Thread Konstantin Poltev
Hello,



My name is Konstantin Poltev and I'm with Esthost. I'd like to ask

you to read through this email before hastily replying.



As you are probably aware, Esthost has been accused of pretty much every

mortal sin - from cybercrime to being KGB-sponsored part of Russian

Business Network involved in information warfare against Georgia [R1].



However, that's just one side of the story. I'd like to present our side,

in this email, and in person - I am right here at NANOG, ready to answer

your questions.



I've initially planned to make a short presentation during security BOF,

but decided against it - I believe tempers are still too hot to hear our

side of the story, also, my English is not quite as good to be able to

stand up before 1000 people.



However, I'll be around, in the hotel bar, should anyone want to ask me

any questions in person - or should any law enforcement officer wish to

arrest me :)



Now, on to the story:



First, few words on the "community police" that is accusing us of all the

misdeeds. The accusations initially were made by (anonymous) John Reid

from Spamhaus, then continued with anonymous rbnexploit blog, then by Jart

Armin from the "hostexploit". All of those are (to my knowledge) are very

much anonymous.



I'd love to debate the report and their accusations, in public, but,

regretfully, I don't see this happening anytime soon - while I'm very much

willing to travel to US and subject myself to US jurisdiction, my accuser

John Reid in Spamhaus is anonymous, and Spamhaus itself claims not to be

subject to any US laws, where it clearly does business. It begs the

question - how come the alleged "criminals" are so brazen, and alleged

"community police" so anonymous? One possible conclusion is that there's

no evidence of a crime, and "community police" is nothing short of a lynch

mob, that needs no evidence, heeds no laws, and acts as a judge, jury and

executioner. However, more on spamhaus later.



Finally, the last point was the publication of an article in Washington

Post by Brian Krebs. Brian, as it appears, has commissioned the

hostexploit report, and it makes a wonderful media story - you have

full-on thriller, with cybercriminals out of Estonia being aided by

corporations small and large in US - it doesn't get any better than that.

Unfortunately, said report is full of unsubstantiated allegations - in

fact, not just unsubstantiated, but clearly known to be false to anyone

who is actually in the industry (more on this later).



Brian has attempted to ask us for our side of the story. However, the

questions asked were "How many EstHost employees have graduated the KGB

military public information school?", "How often does KGB/GRU/FSB ask

Esthost to implement special measures against Western visitors", "Does

Esthost provide GRU/SVR with information about Western visitors", "What

percentage of Est's revenue is reinvested by FSB into Est's

infrastructure".



I'm dead serious - those were the questions - I can't make this up.  You

can draw your own conclusions on Brian's bias and the desire of a

sensational story.



I'd like to point out that Esthost doesn't hide behind anonymity - names

of the owners of Esthost are well known, and we live in Estonia, which,

despite what you think, is as much of a Western-world country with rule of

law as, say, France or Germany - with criminal police, extradition

treaties, Interpol membership, etc.



What is the truth?



We have no affiliation with "Russian Business Network"  (if there ever was

such a thing). We have no affiliation with Emil or Atrivo (other than

being an ex-customer). We have no affiliation with HostFresh. We don't

know what *they* do with their network, or their abuse complaints - we can

only speak for ourselves.



Onto the discussion of the "hostexploit report" itself: I am surprised

that it appears that nobody actually have taken time to read the report -

as inaccuracies are glaring enough to be immediately noticable. Report is

hardly "unbiased" - it is a very beautifully typeset piece whose purpose

is to smear our company (and our vendors' vendors' vendors, and our

customers, and just about anyone else, maybe short of the guys who deliver

pizza to our office).



As I point out flaws in the report, I'd like to again emphasize, we are

not atrivo. I believe Emil and Atrivo were unfairly smeared, and as much

as Esthost, they deserve fairness, although I can't speak for the rest of

Atrivo's customers, not affiliated with Esthost. Report itself is located

at: http://hostexploit.com/downloads/Atrivo%20white%20paper%20082808ac.pdf



First part of report is fluff - using spamhaus pages as evidence of

wrongdoing.



Let's start with obvious:



** Page 16 - the page with the actual data:



Google has 4 times more infections than Atrivo, and approximately same

infection rate. Are they also cyber-criminals?  Chinanet-backbone - has 48

times number of Atrivo's