Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Danijel Starman]

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 4:59 PM Fredy Kuenzler  wrote:

> Is anyone else affected by a massive price increase for x-conns by
> Telehouse Chelsea?
>


If I recall correctly in just switching to 100G ports instead of multiple
10G bundles we managed to pay off new switches in ~6 months. (not on that
specific location but prices are high).

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Mark Tinka]

On 20/Sep/18 03:13, Owen DeLong wrote:

>
>
> At those prices, it doesn’t take a lot of XCs to justify the cost of
> building an additional datacenter.

These sorts of prices are generally visible either in cable landing
stations, or data centres ran by submarine cable operators offering
access to their cable system.

A competing data centre in the same country will not provide cheaper
access to one or a (limited) set of submarine cable systems that employ
this stifling x-connect pricing model.

Mark.

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Mark Tinka]

On 20/Sep/18 16:00, Andrew Ashley wrote:

>  
> Agreed. This is a topic worthy of discussion all on its own! 
> Wonder how much of colo/DC operator space and revenue public cloud is eating 
> in 2018?

NAPAfrica employ a "free x-connect" model to peer at their exchange
point provided you are a paying customer within their (Teraco) data
centre in South Africa.

Any x-connects you order that are not going to touch the exchange point
are charged for (nowhere near the pricing you're typically seeing the
U.S., I might add).

They have gone one step further and offered free ports at their exchange
point for their members. Again, provided you are a paying customer
within their data centre.

The model has been wildly successful, making it the largest data centre
in Africa in a span of (if my memory is correct) a little under 3 years,
far surpassing some that were there before.

So, just an example of an element where a free-and-pay element has been
reasonably successful without any rent-seeking behaviour.

Mark.

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Andrew Ashley]

>Equinix were a leader in bringing this to the UK, they have said they
>want to get the UK charges to US levels (so >10x increase still to
>come). US pricing already matches metro waves so we face paying
>twice the cost of the wave to the DCs for the short interconnects.
  
Our Internap (reselling Equinix) xconnects at Equinix in Ashburn recently 
jumped from $250 MRC to $350 overnight. According to the Equinix account 
manager, their "standard" increase is only 5% p.a. In my experience, US 
facility MRC's are (generally) always x times more expensive than European 
equivalent, if there is even an MRC although maybe that is changing as others 
have mentioned.
I guess you could also draw somewhat similar comparisons with IX business 
models between the US and Europe (commercial vs mutual).

 
> They started charging but I can't attribute
 >the growing empty rack space to that, more likely AWS is the cause of
 >that and a driver for increasing xcon fees to make up revenue.
 >   
 >   brandon 
 
Agreed. This is a topic worthy of discussion all on its own! 
Wonder how much of colo/DC operator space and revenue public cloud is eating in 
2018?

Regards,
Andrew.

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Owen DeLong]

> On Sep 19, 2018, at 00:44 , Christopher Morrow  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 12:28 PM Owen DeLong  > wrote:
> 
> I’d argue that the difference between reasonable (≤$500 one-time and ≤$50 
> MRC) and $300 MRC is within range of argument, but I cannot see any way in 
> which an argument can be made that $5840 MRC is not a distortion in that same 
> circumstance.
> 
> 
> captive audiences (or those which view themselves as captive) are so much 
> fun... :(
> I imagine that 'away from Telaviv' in the 20ms arena is  actually pretty 
> hard to find, right?
> If you wanted to offer 'local' content locally (and offer it quickly/fastly 
> (ha!)) it's probably pretty hard in that part of the world, right? Whether it 
> actually 'costs' that much to pull a x-connect and maintain that x-connect is 
> probably not as important as 'gosh it's really hard to be 'close' to  
> ' right? which is what they are capitalizing on here.
> 
> Hank, how far away is the next closest large network metro ? Riyad? Rome? 
> Sofia?... I mean, it's all 'far' from 'isreal' (or really any part of the 
> world)  to the next decent network POP :(
>  

At those prices, it doesn’t take a lot of XCs to justify the cost of building 
an additional datacenter.

Owen

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Scott Christopher]

Christopher Morrow wrote:

> Whether it actually 'costs' that much to pull a x-connect and maintain
> that x-connect is probably not as important as 'gosh it's really hard
> to be 'close' to  ' right? which is what they are
> capitalizing on here.> 
> Hank, how far away is the next closest large network metro ? Riyad?
> Rome? Sofia?... I mean, it's all 'far' from 'isreal' (or really any
> part of the world)  to the next decent network POP :(>  

I'm not sure if Israelis can buy anything from Riyadh, though. It's
usually the case that Israelis and their neighbors can't do business
with each other, either because of their neighbor's laws or Israel's
laws, or both.
So your Tel Aviv data center has a much smaller market and can't benefit
from economies of scale like more developed markets such as United
States and western Europe which sell globally.
I agree that capitalism lets you charge whatever you can get but healthy
capitalism gives you competition. The *big* question: If prices are so
high in Israel, why don't competitors enter this market when it's 1)
pretty much commodity and 2) booming globally?
--S.C.

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Christopher Morrow]

On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 12:28 PM Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
> I’d argue that the difference between reasonable (≤$500 one-time and ≤$50
> MRC) and $300 MRC is within range of argument, but I cannot see any way in
> which an argument can be made that $5840 MRC is not a distortion in that
> same circumstance.
>
>
captive audiences (or those which view themselves as captive) are so much
fun... :(
I imagine that 'away from Telaviv' in the 20ms arena is  actually
pretty hard to find, right?
If you wanted to offer 'local' content locally (and offer it quickly/fastly
(ha!)) it's probably pretty hard in that part of the world, right? Whether
it actually 'costs' that much to pull a x-connect and maintain that
x-connect is probably not as important as 'gosh it's really hard to be
'close' to  ' right? which is what they are capitalizing on
here.

Hank, how far away is the next closest large network metro ? Riyad? Rome?
Sofia?... I mean, it's all 'far' from 'isreal' (or really any part of the
world)  to the next decent network POP :(

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Scott Weeks]

--- b...@ufl.edu wrote:
From: Bruce H McIntosh 

I can remember a conversation like this at a Joint Techs meeting 
many years back. Several of us were outgassing about how expensive 
it was to get 100mbps connections off our campuses, until the guy 
from the University of Hawaii told us how much he was paying per 
month for a *T1* to the mainland. :D
---


That was many, many (ancient) years back! :-)

scott

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Owen DeLong]

> On Sep 18, 2018, at 12:02 PM, Bruce H McIntosh  wrote:
> 
>>> Current list price for 10G Xconnect at the major colo site in Israel is
>>> $5840/month.   Discounts are available :-)
>>> Keep complaining about $350/mo costs.  You have no idea how lucky you are.
>>> 
>>> -Hank
>> So, you’re arguing that because the prices in Israel are 15*ridiculous, we 
>> should stop complaining about 1*ridiculous?
>> You have no idea how distorted your perspective is.
> 
> It's not necessarily distorted, it's just a different frame of reference. I 
> can remember a conversation like this at a Joint Techs meeting many years 
> back. Several of us were outgassing about how expensive it was to get 100mbps 
> connections off our campuses, until the guy from the University of Hawaii 
> told us how much he was paying per month for a *T1* to the mainland. :D

Sure, but in this case, we’re not comparing transaoceanic circuits to local 
loops, we’re comparing single pair fiber cross connects between two points in 
the same datacenter or datacenter campus.

I’d argue that the difference between reasonable (≤$500 one-time and ≤$50 MRC) 
and $300 MRC is within range of argument, but I cannot see any way in which an 
argument can be made that $5840 MRC is not a distortion in that same 
circumstance.

Owen

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Bruce H McIntosh]

Current list price for 10G Xconnect at the major colo site in Israel is
$5840/month.   Discounts are available :-)
Keep complaining about $350/mo costs.  You have no idea how lucky you are.

-Hank


So, you’re arguing that because the prices in Israel are 15*ridiculous, we 
should stop complaining about 1*ridiculous?

You have no idea how distorted your perspective is.


It's not necessarily distorted, it's just a different frame of reference. I can 
remember a conversation like this at a Joint Techs meeting many years back. 
Several of us were outgassing about how expensive it was to get 100mbps 
connections off our campuses, until the guy from the University of Hawaii told 
us how much he was paying per month for a *T1* to the mainland. :D


--

Bruce H. McIntosh
Network Engineer II
University of Florida Information Technology
b...@ufl.edu
352-273-1066

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Owen DeLong]

> On Sep 17, 2018, at 9:42 PM, Hank Nussbacher  wrote:
> 
> On 17/09/2018 23:26, Phil Lavin wrote:
>>> $350/mo seems to be standard. Our DCs are at $250.Seems more like they 
>>> held onto out of date pricing for a long time then realized it.
>> For what it's worth, Telehouse London is around 30 USD/month for an 
>> x-connect within the same building. Our US datacentre (not Telehouse) on the 
>> other hand is around 200 USD/month. It's always felt disproportionally 
>> expensive but maybe those kind of prices are expected for the North America 
>> region.
> Current list price for 10G Xconnect at the major colo site in Israel is
> $5840/month.   Discounts are available :-)
> Keep complaining about $350/mo costs.  You have no idea how lucky you are.
> 
> -Hank

So, you’re arguing that because the prices in Israel are 15*ridiculous, we 
should stop complaining about 1*ridiculous?

You have no idea how distorted your perspective is.

Owen

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Brandon Butterworth]

On Tue Sep 18, 2018 at 08:19:35AM +, Scott Christopher wrote:
> Hank Nussbacher wrote:
> 
> > On 18/09/2018 08:02, Christopher Morrow wrote: 
> >> 
> >> it's funny/possible that x-connect costs affect where peering appears
> >> in the landscape, right?> Not this time.  Just price gouging since moving 
> >> a number of cabinets
> > to a different location is a nightmare.
> Sure - but at least they have competitors.
> 
> Look at prices from telecoms like China's CN1. Would you rather have
> prices set by  government-controlled monopolies, or by private
> competition?
> --S.C.

It's more like a loose cartel with some leading to see
how far they can push it and the rest following in step. As long
as they don't go too fast nobody will see a large enough difference
to be worth changing location.

Equinix were a leader in bringing this to the UK, they have said they
want to get the UK charges to US levels (so >10x increase still to
come). US pricing already matches metro waves so we face paying
twice the cost of the wave to the DCs for the short interconnects.

Telehouse (UK) was one of the good ones with no MRC, the risers got
full due to the popularity of no MRCs (they sold out of rack
space repeatedly too). They started charging but I can't attribute
the growing empty rack space to that, more likely AWS is the cause of
that and a driver for increasing xcon fees to make up revenue.

brandon 

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Scott Christopher]

Hank Nussbacher wrote:

> On 18/09/2018 08:02, Christopher Morrow wrote: 
>> 
>> it's funny/possible that x-connect costs affect where peering appears
>> in the landscape, right?> Not this time.  Just price gouging since moving a 
>> number of cabinets
> to a different location is a nightmare.
Sure - but at least they have competitors.

Look at prices from telecoms like China's CN1. Would you rather have
prices set by  government-controlled monopolies, or by private
competition?
--S.C.

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Radu-Adrian Feurdean]

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018, at 17:30, Daniel Corbe wrote:
> $300 MRC for a once-off cross connect isn’t unreasonable.   There’s costs  

300$ would be (at the limit of) reasonable *M*RC for a 12 FO cable (= 6 duplex 
XCOs). Or the one-off (*N*RC) for one XCO. That's actually close to the rates 
we have on this part of the ocean. 

300$ for one XCO (2 FO) is "robbery in organised band" (word-by-word 
translation of a french legal term). You can get metro waves (some 10-20 km 
distance) for lower than that (again, on my part of the ocean).

--
R-A.F.

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Hank Nussbacher]

On 18/09/2018 08:02, Christopher Morrow wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 9:44 PM Hank Nussbacher  > wrote:
>
> On 17/09/2018 23:26, Phil Lavin wrote:
> >> $350/mo seems to be standard. Our DCs are at $250.    Seems
> more like they held onto out of date pricing for a long time then
> realized it.
> > For what it's worth, Telehouse London is around 30 USD/month for
> an x-connect within the same building. Our US datacentre (not
> Telehouse) on the other hand is around 200 USD/month. It's always
> felt disproportionally expensive but maybe those kind of prices
> are expected for the North America region.
> Current list price for 10G Xconnect at the major colo site in
> Israel is
> $5840/month.   Discounts are available :-)
> Keep complaining about $350/mo costs.  You have no idea how lucky
> you are.
>
>
> it's funny/possible that x-connect costs affect where peering appears
> in the landscape, right? 

Not this time.  Just price gouging since moving a number of cabinets to
a different location is a nightmare.


-Hank

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Christopher Morrow]

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 9:44 PM Hank Nussbacher 
wrote:

> On 17/09/2018 23:26, Phil Lavin wrote:
> >> $350/mo seems to be standard. Our DCs are at $250.Seems more like
> they held onto out of date pricing for a long time then realized it.
> > For what it's worth, Telehouse London is around 30 USD/month for an
> x-connect within the same building. Our US datacentre (not Telehouse) on
> the other hand is around 200 USD/month. It's always felt disproportionally
> expensive but maybe those kind of prices are expected for the North America
> region.
> Current list price for 10G Xconnect at the major colo site in Israel is
> $5840/month.   Discounts are available :-)
> Keep complaining about $350/mo costs.  You have no idea how lucky you are.
>
>
it's funny/possible that x-connect costs affect where peering appears in
the landscape, right?

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Hank Nussbacher]

On 17/09/2018 23:26, Phil Lavin wrote:
>> $350/mo seems to be standard. Our DCs are at $250.Seems more like they 
>> held onto out of date pricing for a long time then realized it.
> For what it's worth, Telehouse London is around 30 USD/month for an x-connect 
> within the same building. Our US datacentre (not Telehouse) on the other hand 
> is around 200 USD/month. It's always felt disproportionally expensive but 
> maybe those kind of prices are expected for the North America region.
Current list price for 10G Xconnect at the major colo site in Israel is
$5840/month.   Discounts are available :-)
Keep complaining about $350/mo costs.  You have no idea how lucky you are.

-Hank

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Ben Cannon]

One Wilshire is at $750/mo for XCs.  Expect other constrained buildings to head 
there if not already (PAIX? Can you even get one?)

-Ben.

> On Sep 17, 2018, at 2:29 PM, Daniel Corbe  wrote:
> 
> at 4:26 PM, Phil Lavin  wrote:
> 
>>> $350/mo seems to be standard. Our DCs are at $250.Seems more like they 
>>> held onto out of date pricing for a long time then realized it.
>> 
>> For what it's worth, Telehouse London is around 30 USD/month for an 
>> x-connect within the same building. Our US datacentre (not Telehouse) on the 
>> other hand is around 200 USD/month. It's always felt disproportionally 
>> expensive but maybe those kind of prices are expected for the North America 
>> region.
> 
> Yeah $30 is definitely not the norm on this side of the pond.   Even if you 
> buy in bulk.

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Patrick W. Gilmore]

On Sep 17, 2018, at 17:51, Nick Hilliard  wrote:
> Patrick W. Gilmore wrote on 17/09/2018 22:40:
>> Expecting any for-profit business (all of them, not just REITs) to do
>> less than extract maximum cash is deluding yourself.
> oh sure, but price gouging is often bad business practice in the long term.  
> Humans evolved a strong sense of injustice and have a long memory for people 
> and organisations whom they feel take advantage of them.
> 
> As someone else pointed out, business practices like this can work in a 
> rising market, but not so well when market conditions become difficult and 
> people end up in a position of being able to make a choice between 
> organisations which may have treated them badly in the past and those which 
> have not.

No argument. You cut out part of my reply:

When a business gives you something for free, they are expecting
something in return - return business, personal data, lower
churn, good reviews, customer loyalty, etc. - that they can turn
into cash. Any business with little or no competition can be
expected to raise prices. This is not exactly new or surprising.

If you “s/free/free or lower cost/“, it satisfies your statement as well. Every 
business should be deciding “how much can I make -long term-“, and take into 
account what you, I, and others have said here. Some will think short term, and 
(hopefully) the market will punish them over time.

Anyway, I think everyone on the thread agrees. Xconn fees are higher than they 
should be, but not necessarily higher than the market will bear. Yet.

Besides, once everyone turns up a single 100 Tbps port to PacketFabric (or two 
for redundancy), xconn fees will be irrelevant. :-)

-- 
TTFN,
patrick

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Nick Hilliard]

Patrick W. Gilmore wrote on 17/09/2018 22:40:

Expecting any for-profit business (all of them, not just REITs) to do
less than extract maximum cash is deluding yourself.
oh sure, but price gouging is often bad business practice in the long 
term.  Humans evolved a strong sense of injustice and have a long memory 
for people and organisations whom they feel take advantage of them.


As someone else pointed out, business practices like this can work in a 
rising market, but not so well when market conditions become difficult 
and people end up in a position of being able to make a choice between 
organisations which may have treated them badly in the past and those 
which have not.


Nick

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Daniel Corbe]

at 4:26 PM, Phil Lavin  wrote:

$350/mo seems to be standard. Our DCs are at $250.Seems more like  
they held onto out of date pricing for a long time then realized it.


For what it's worth, Telehouse London is around 30 USD/month for an  
x-connect within the same building. Our US datacentre (not Telehouse) on  
the other hand is around 200 USD/month. It's always felt  
disproportionally expensive but maybe those kind of prices are expected  
for the North America region.


Yeah $30 is definitely not the norm on this side of the pond.   Even if you  
buy in bulk.

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Ross Tajvar]

My current facility (in the Ashburn, VA, USA area) is $25/mo with two for
free, but when I was shopping around, most other facilities were at least
$300/mo. Certainly not unusual but I agree it's excessive.

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 4:26 PM, Phil Lavin 
wrote:

> > $350/mo seems to be standard. Our DCs are at $250.Seems more like
> they held onto out of date pricing for a long time then realized it.
>
> For what it's worth, Telehouse London is around 30 USD/month for an
> x-connect within the same building. Our US datacentre (not Telehouse) on
> the other hand is around 200 USD/month. It's always felt disproportionally
> expensive but maybe those kind of prices are expected for the North America
> region.
>

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[JASON BOTHE via NANOG]

Correct. Behold the ‘active riser’. We started doing this years ago in our R&E 
network after we were being nickeled and dimes to cross floors between our own 
cages we leased from the same colo. 


> On Sep 17, 2018, at 15:23, Ben Cannon  wrote:
> 
> fs.com has got this ready to go.  Less than that.
> 
>> On Sep 17, 2018, at 12:54 PM, Joe Maimon  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Ethan O'Toole wrote:
 If it’s in an interduct by itself, how much would the square footage per
 month occupied by the average cross connect be worth?
>>> 
>>> These big datacenter companies are REITs. Similar to self-storage units and 
>>> apartment buildings, they exist to extract as much money as possible from 
>>> the users. Nothing more or nothing less. The price relief only comes when 
>>> the market is grossly overbuilt and if there is actual competition.
>>> 
>>>   - Ethan O'Toole
>>> 
>>> 
>> For a positive side effect, xcon pricing should bring greater demand to dwdm 
>> solutions, what would you recommend for an affordable 1u turnkey buy a pair 
>> and get >10<30 1g/10g maybe a couple of 40 even a 100g (and mon/expansion)?
>> 
>> 
>> Joe
> 

RE: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Michel Py]

> Patrick W. Gilmore wrote :
> Maybe I am confused, but I thought every for-profit business exists to 
> extract as much money as possible.

Especially is said business is potentially in my 401(k) portfolio. I expect 
them to milk every penny they possibly can out of their customers so my 401(k) 
grows.

Oh, wait ? I'm one of their customers. They should milk everyone else, but not 
me of course. What's the name of this thing ? capitalism ?

Michel.

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RE: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Phil Lavin]

> $350/mo seems to be standard. Our DCs are at $250.Seems more like they 
> held onto out of date pricing for a long time then realized it.

For what it's worth, Telehouse London is around 30 USD/month for an x-connect 
within the same building. Our US datacentre (not Telehouse) on the other hand 
is around 200 USD/month. It's always felt disproportionally expensive but maybe 
those kind of prices are expected for the North America region.

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Ben Cannon]

fs.com has got this ready to go.  Less than that.

> On Sep 17, 2018, at 12:54 PM, Joe Maimon  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethan O'Toole wrote:
>>> If it’s in an interduct by itself, how much would the square footage per
>>> month occupied by the average cross connect be worth?
>> 
>> These big datacenter companies are REITs. Similar to self-storage units and 
>> apartment buildings, they exist to extract as much money as possible from 
>> the users. Nothing more or nothing less. The price relief only comes when 
>> the market is grossly overbuilt and if there is actual competition.
>> 
>>- Ethan O'Toole
>> 
>> 
> For a positive side effect, xcon pricing should bring greater demand to dwdm 
> solutions, what would you recommend for an affordable 1u turnkey buy a pair 
> and get >10<30 1g/10g maybe a couple of 40 even a 100g (and mon/expansion)?
> 
> 
> Joe

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Joe Maimon]

Ethan O'Toole wrote:

If it’s in an interduct by itself, how much would the square footage per
month occupied by the average cross connect be worth?


These big datacenter companies are REITs. Similar to self-storage 
units and apartment buildings, they exist to extract as much money as 
possible from the users. Nothing more or nothing less. The price 
relief only comes when the market is grossly overbuilt and if there is 
actual competition.


- Ethan O'Toole


For a positive side effect, xcon pricing should bring greater demand to 
dwdm solutions, what would you recommend for an affordable 1u turnkey 
buy a pair and get >10<30 1g/10g maybe a couple of 40 even a 100g (and 
mon/expansion)?



Joe

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Patrick W. Gilmore]

On Sep 17, 2018, at 15:08, Ethan O'Toole  wrote:
> 
>> If it’s in an interduct by itself, how much would the square footage per
>> month occupied by the average cross connect be worth?
> 
> These big datacenter companies are REITs. Similar to self-storage units and 
> apartment buildings, they exist to extract as much money as possible from the 
> users. Nothing more or nothing less. The price relief only comes when the 
> market is grossly overbuilt and if there is actual competition.

Maybe I am confused, but I thought every for-profit business exists to extract 
as much money as possible.

When a business gives you something for free, they are expecting something in 
return - return business, personal data, lower churn, good reviews, customer 
loyalty, etc. - that they can turn into cash. Any business with little or no 
competition can be expected to raise prices. This is not exactly new or 
surprising.

Expecting any for-profit business (all of them, not just REITs) to do less than 
extract maximum cash is deluding yourself.

-- 
TTFN,
patrick

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Ben Cannon]

$350/mo seems to be standard. Our DCs are at $250.Seems more like they held 
onto out of date pricing for a long time then realized it.

-Ben

On Sep 17, 2018, at 12:08 PM, Ethan O'Toole  wrote:

>> If it’s in an interduct by itself, how much would the square footage per
>> month occupied by the average cross connect be worth?
> 
> These big datacenter companies are REITs. Similar to self-storage units and 
> apartment buildings, they exist to extract as much money as possible from the 
> users. Nothing more or nothing less. The price relief only comes when the 
> market is grossly overbuilt and if there is actual competition.
> 
>- Ethan O'Toole

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Ethan O'Toole]

If it’s in an interduct by itself, how much would the square footage per
month occupied by the average cross connect be worth?


These big datacenter companies are REITs. Similar to self-storage units 
and apartment buildings, they exist to extract as much money as possible 
from the users. Nothing more or nothing less. The price relief only comes 
when the market is grossly overbuilt and if there is actual competition.


- Ethan O'Toole

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Owen DeLong]

If it’s in an interduct by itself, how much would the square footage per
month occupied by the average cross connect be worth?

I’m not saying I think $300 MRC is legitimate by any means, but, if
you’re going to talk about the ongoing costs, the space in the cable
ladder and/or fiber tray(s) also has to be accounted for.

Owen


> On Sep 17, 2018, at 8:57 AM, William Herrin  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 11:30 AM, Daniel Corbe  wrote:
>> $300 MRC for a once-off cross connect isn’t unreasonable.   There’s costs
>> and labor involved in running that cable through a riser.  Especially if you
>> want it in innerduct.
> 
> Hi Daniel,
> 
> A $300 Non-Recurring Cost, sure. The MONTHLY Recurring Cost of
> maintaining that cable is not zero, especially if it's in a campus not
> just one building, but it's pretty close to zero. Charging the
> customer a $300 MRC may not be unusual but it is unreasonable.
> 
> I get that floorspace and power is priced pretty close to
> cost-recovery so that cross connects are one of the only profit
> centers for a carrier neutral facility. It's still obnoxious.
> 
> Regards,
> Bill Herrin
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> William Herrin  her...@dirtside.com  b...@herrin.us
> Dirtside Systems . Web: 

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[William Herrin]

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 11:30 AM, Daniel Corbe  wrote:
> $300 MRC for a once-off cross connect isn’t unreasonable.   There’s costs
> and labor involved in running that cable through a riser.  Especially if you
> want it in innerduct.

Hi Daniel,

A $300 Non-Recurring Cost, sure. The MONTHLY Recurring Cost of
maintaining that cable is not zero, especially if it's in a campus not
just one building, but it's pretty close to zero. Charging the
customer a $300 MRC may not be unusual but it is unreasonable.

I get that floorspace and power is priced pretty close to
cost-recovery so that cross connects are one of the only profit
centers for a carrier neutral facility. It's still obnoxious.

Regards,
Bill Herrin



-- 
William Herrin  her...@dirtside.com  b...@herrin.us
Dirtside Systems . Web: 

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Daniel Corbe]

at 10:57 AM, Fredy Kuenzler  wrote:


Is anyone else affected by a massive price increase for x-conns by
Telehouse Chelsea?

When we moved in a few years ago they were asking 150$, it changed to
200$ and now we are asked to pay 260$. That's 73% more. I don't think
inflation is that high in the United states.

I get the impression that they feel comfortable enough to abuse their
position. When we complained they simply said 'you may consider to
cancel the contract'.

Of course they don't provide any better service, in fact, the service
quality is commonly indirectly proportional to the price at most 'big
names'. #rant

I suggest to anyone considering to buy colocation space in NYC (or
elsewhere) not to choose Telehouse, unlike a few years ago.

--
Fredy Kuenzler
Init7 (Switzerland) Ltd.


$300 MRC for a once-off cross connect isn’t unreasonable.   There’s costs  
and labor involved in running that cable through a riser.  Especially if  
you want it in innerduct.


I’m not sure what Telehouse’s policies are because I’m not a customer, but  
some companies (TelX comes to mind) you can order them in bulk at a  
significant discount.   Even with the extra labor involved in splicing it  
to a panel, running a 12 or 24 count cable into a cabinet is a much easier  
pill to swallow than having a guy up on a ladder or under a floor every  
time you want to turn up a customer.


Then there’s always off-market options too.   You don’t need to be in New  
York to have decent connectivity to the New York metro region.   There’s a  
few places in Jersey that offer free cross connects in their meet-me rooms  
because they’re so desperate to have carriers move into their  
facilities.I don’t think many of them have connectivity to major  
peering fabrics, though.

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Seth Mattinen]

On 9/17/18 7:57 AM, Fredy Kuenzler wrote:

Is anyone else affected by a massive price increase for x-conns by
Telehouse Chelsea?

When we moved in a few years ago they were asking 150$, it changed to
200$ and now we are asked to pay 260$. That's 73% more. I don't think
inflation is that high in the United states.

I get the impression that they feel comfortable enough to abuse their
position. When we complained they simply said 'you may consider to
cancel the contract'.


They know that most people will complain, but they very few will 
actually pull the trigger on a cancel. I see attitudes like this change 
with ownership or new executives looking to make their mark. Prices will 
keep going up until whatever metric of how many customers actually 
cancel is met.


If you're able to cancel, I say do it. One of two things will happen: 
you'll call their bluff and get offered a better rate, or 2) you get to 
move somewhere that has a better rate and you know to make sure it's 
contracted or has a cap on how much it can increase on an annual basis. 
Yes, moving is horribly inconvenient, but in my opinion it's worse to 
work with a company who is hostile towards their customers.


~Seth

Re: Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Dovid Bender]

Still better than what other places charge (*cough* DR. *cough*)


On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 10:57 AM, Fredy Kuenzler  wrote:

> Is anyone else affected by a massive price increase for x-conns by
> Telehouse Chelsea?
>
> When we moved in a few years ago they were asking 150$, it changed to
> 200$ and now we are asked to pay 260$. That's 73% more. I don't think
> inflation is that high in the United states.
>
> I get the impression that they feel comfortable enough to abuse their
> position. When we complained they simply said 'you may consider to
> cancel the contract'.
>
> Of course they don't provide any better service, in fact, the service
> quality is commonly indirectly proportional to the price at most 'big
> names'. #rant
>
> I suggest to anyone considering to buy colocation space in NYC (or
> elsewhere) not to choose Telehouse, unlike a few years ago.
>
> --
> Fredy Kuenzler
> Init7 (Switzerland) Ltd.
>
>

Massive Price Increase for X-conns at Telehouse Chelsea, NYC

[Fredy Kuenzler]

Is anyone else affected by a massive price increase for x-conns by
Telehouse Chelsea?

When we moved in a few years ago they were asking 150$, it changed to
200$ and now we are asked to pay 260$. That's 73% more. I don't think
inflation is that high in the United states.

I get the impression that they feel comfortable enough to abuse their
position. When we complained they simply said 'you may consider to
cancel the contract'.

Of course they don't provide any better service, in fact, the service
quality is commonly indirectly proportional to the price at most 'big
names'. #rant

I suggest to anyone considering to buy colocation space in NYC (or
elsewhere) not to choose Telehouse, unlike a few years ago.

-- 
Fredy Kuenzler
Init7 (Switzerland) Ltd.



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