Re: OOB customer communications (Re: Looking for Support Contact at Equifax)
On 27 Apr 2009, at 04:24, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: If your email and phone communications are down due to a connectivity break, and your customers get connectivity from you [assume no backup links, by default .. you'd be surprised at how many smaller customers get by with a single link and no backups at all. If their connectivity is down too - they just cant get to twitter right? Twitter, in line with the subject line, has got out of band - updates by SMS. So the general lesson is that even organisations with single homed connectivity can post updates to colleagues, peers, customers, if they build tools that let them do so from their cellphones... whether this is via twitter or an externally hosted blog, or status page, or something else. Andy
Re: OOB customer communications (Re: Looking for Support Contact at Equifax)
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 8:13 PM, char...@thewybles.com wrote: Twitter URL is an rss feed as well. That should work then, and a reasonable solution for not having to sign up for a third party service. -- Later, Joe
Re: OOB customer communications (Re: Looking for Support Contact at Equifax)
Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: If your email and phone communications are down due to a connectivity break, and your customers get connectivity from you [assume no backup links, by default .. you'd be surprised at how many smaller customers get by with a single link and no backups at all. If their connectivity is down too - they just cant get to twitter right? I can post status updates to our noc twitter account from my cell phone (so no reliance on local network) and any customers who are using a smartphone device can get updates from their mobile, also wholly OOB from our network. I imagine there's a way to get updates via pure SMS too. I think it's the melding of the mobile with the Internet that is what gives Twitter its real power. I agree however that if the only Twitter access is via regular computer it loses most of its value in this situation. Mike
Re: OOB customer communications (Re: Looking for Support Contact at Equifax)
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Mike Lewinski m...@rockynet.com wrote: Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: If your email and phone communications are down due to a connectivity break, and your customers get connectivity from you [assume no backup links, by default .. you'd be surprised at how many smaller customers get by with a single link and no backups at all. If their connectivity is down too - they just cant get to twitter right? I can post status updates to our noc twitter account from my cell phone (so no reliance on local network) and any customers who are using a smartphone device can get updates from their mobile, also wholly OOB from our network. I imagine there's a way to get updates via pure SMS too. I think it's the melding of the mobile with the Internet that is what gives Twitter its real power. I agree however that if the only Twitter access is via regular computer it loses most of its value in this situation. Mike Twitter allows you to specify that you want SMS notification when someone you're following makes an update. -- Brandon Galbraith Mobile: 630.400.6992
Re: OOB customer communications (Re: Looking for Support Contact at Equifax)
William McCall wrote: I should have clarified. Third party physical control isn't necessarily the issue, but third party administration and delivery (in the context of twitter) is. Dedicated servers are cheap and you can maintain control of the content. But useless if the customer's data connection is down and their local cell phones are the only remaining method of communication. If 25% of our users would check their twitter feed first and let their boss know They are aware of the problem and this is the ETR, that means the other 75% who are trying to call have less competition getting that same update from a human (or our auto-attendant). We're never going to tweet every down T1 because those are easy to manage the customer contacts for and also not of interest to 99% of our customers. I'm really only talking about the outages that would affect the majority of customers where proactive notification isn't feasible (by the time you've made it 10% through your list, you've already received calls from 95% of the people who want such notifications anyway because they all called at the same time, right when it stopped working...). Mike
Re: OOB customer communications (Re: Looking for Support Contact at Equifax)
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Mike Lewinski m...@rockynet.com wrote: But useless if the customer's data connection is down and their local cell phones are the only remaining method of communication. If 25% of our users would check their twitter feed first and let their boss know They are aware of the problem and this is the ETR, that means the other 75% who are trying to call have less competition getting that same update from a human (or our auto-attendant). Cellphones can still receive data and websites. You can use an alternate service that provides SMS functionality without having to have it in a public forum. This still allows you to maintain control of who is seeing it without trying to figure out which customer BigDaddyPimpin is on Twitter. Depending on your situation, you really might not want all of those outage updates to become someone else's information. If you don't have much competition against your business model, it might make sense to provide this. If you have competitors ranging from sleazy snake oil to overpriced big name, this data becomes a good source of your operations for your competitors to use in whatever way they like. We're never going to tweet every down T1 because those are easy to manage the customer contacts for and also not of interest to 99% of our customers. I'm really only talking about the outages that would affect the majority of customers where proactive notification isn't feasible (by the time you've made it 10% through your list, you've already received calls from 95% of the people who want such notifications anyway because they all called at the same time, right when it stopped working...). Mike Proactive notifications can and are tailored to meet individual SP needs. If I'm providing circuits, my customers want to know when THEIR circuits are affected. If I'm providing some other service, relevant notification of failure are useful. Tailoring outage information to be proactive and relevant isn't something new and the practical implementation has already been deployed by major players in the SP realm. The implementation of these systems may be non-trivial in your environment, but customers are starting to demand a notification of potential trouble BEFORE someone has spend 15 or 20 min to determine that the service is truly down. And if your argument holds true, those 95% didn't bother to check twitter. They called you anyway. And remember, you still have that website thats hosted offsite, offnet. And you still control it. Twitter doesn't magically change the way information is delivered just because its twitter. It does change who is ultimatly in control of the content. --WJM IV
OOB customer communications (Re: Looking for Support Contact at Equifax)
We're experimenting with Twitter as a means to communicate anytime there are system-wide outages (in addition to regular maintenance notifications). Adoption is slow but I foresee growth once we really get the word out. Being a data and VoIP provider, certain events can effect both email and telephone communications, so having a truly OOB method of contact is potentially invaluable. It would be awesome if there was a service like twitter that wasn't down as often as it is. Anyone have a list of all xSPs using Twitter? Mike
Re: OOB customer communications (Re: Looking for Support Contact at Equifax)
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Mike Lewinski m...@rockynet.com wrote: We're experimenting with Twitter as a means to communicate anytime there are system-wide outages (in addition to regular maintenance notifications). Adoption is slow but I foresee growth once we really get the word out. Twitter over RSS? I'd choose RSS. All I need is a url; not even a user agreement! -- Later, Joe
Re: OOB customer communications (Re: Looking for Support Contact at Equifax)
Twitter URL is an rss feed as well. --Original Message-- From: JoeSox To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: OOB customer communications (Re: Looking for Support Contact at Equifax) Sent: Apr 26, 2009 8:08 PM On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Mike Lewinski m...@rockynet.com wrote: We're experimenting with Twitter as a means to communicate anytime there are system-wide outages (in addition to regular maintenance notifications). Adoption is slow but I foresee growth once we really get the word out. Twitter over RSS? I'd choose RSS. All I need is a url; not even a user agreement! -- Later, Joe Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
Re: OOB customer communications (Re: Looking for Support Contact at Equifax)
If your email and phone communications are down due to a connectivity break, and your customers get connectivity from you [assume no backup links, by default .. you'd be surprised at how many smaller customers get by with a single link and no backups at all. If their connectivity is down too - they just cant get to twitter right? And there's quite likely to be assorted HR policies that say no goofing off on the internet at work, and that includes twitter, facebook etc I'd suggest gather as much backup contact info as you can - cellphone + landline (presumably from another carrier, and wired instead of voip), mailing address etc. Use it in series. It is quite scriptable (and even the bulk postal mail part can be automated to some extent). --srs On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 8:10 AM, Mike Lewinski m...@rockynet.com wrote: Being a data and VoIP provider, certain events can effect both email and telephone communications, so having a truly OOB method of contact is potentially invaluable. It would be awesome if there was a service like twitter that wasn't down as often as it is. Anyone have a list of all xSPs using Twitter?
Re: OOB customer communications (Re: Looking for Support Contact at Equifax)
I could see someone complaining about the idea of letting a third party carry outage info like that... at least in my environment. Really, it could be a blessing or a curse for your marketing team, but it does depend on how you handle it I suppose. Potential clients could use the information to see your ability to meet SLA targets before they sign on. If you're not the big dog in the arena, it can very easily work against you by enhancing the BS that competitors will provide. Or, of course, it can give them a warm fuzzy feeling knowing that they can readily see the issues and know how you've been affected. A lot of places still work with an MO of secrecy. The service I support is one of them. From a technical perspective, the idea is solid though. --WJM IV --Original Message-- From: JoeSox To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: OOB customer communications (Re: Looking for Support Contact at Equifax) Sent: Apr 26, 2009 8:08 PM On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Mike Lewinski m...@rockynet.com wrote: We're experimenting with Twitter as a means to communicate anytime there are system-wide outages (in addition to regular maintenance notifications). Adoption is slow but I foresee growth once we really get the word out.
Re: OOB customer communications (Re: Looking for Support Contact at Equifax)
William McCall wrote: I could see someone complaining about the idea of letting a third party carry outage info like that... at least in my environment. How else do you propose getting outage information to your customers? If the information provider is under your control (not a 3rd party), then whatever took out your primary services (internet services, phone services) might also take out your access to the outage channel that is under your control (e.g. fat-fingered admin messes up an ACL). I *like it* when my service provider has an OOB network outage channel. My biggest complaint has been with networks that setup a channel like this but then get too busy during an outage to make use of it. If you are going to setup a channel like this, make sure you use it. Also, if you post a partial update, make sure you follow up with more information when you have it. Some of us read the archives to see if this information was posted and followed-up on in a timely fashion, to evaluate the outage reporting service record before signing up. Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: If your email and phone communications are down due to a connectivity break, and your customers get connectivity from you [assume no backup links, by default .. you'd be surprised at how many smaller customers get by with a single link and no backups at all. If their connectivity is down too - they just cant get to twitter right? Um... what about text messages to these newfangled cell phone thingies? http://www.ehow.com/how_2075926_use-twitter-cell-phone.html Unless you are ATT or Comcast (or similar) and your customers have U-Verse or Comcast Triple Play (or similar) it has to be a fairly widespread outage to take out your customer's landlines, internet, and cell phones too. If your network has that big of an outage, your customers can follow the outage news updates on the radio. jc
OOB customer communications (Re: Looking for Support Contact at Equifax)
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 11:18 PM, JC Dill jcdill.li...@gmail.com wrote: How else do you propose getting outage information to your customers? I should have clarified. Third party physical control isn't necessarily the issue, but third party administration and delivery (in the context of twitter) is. Dedicated servers are cheap and you can maintain control of the content. Its not quite the same as using twitter or other third party SaaS that is similar (which can, invariably, control the content at its whim and is a nightmare to manage persons authorized to view such outage info, depending on the service) Or even a mailer that is outside of the scope of your service ops and permit only customers to subscribe. Again, its more about distribution in these environments. If I'm Company A, I really don't want to readily provide my competitor, Company B, with information on outages and a full history of it for them to use in some marketing device (which can't be compared because Company B does not publish their info, but instead provides some nice glossy-paper stats). Physical control certainly can't be the question.. or we'd have the same argument in circles, If we have physical control, how can we ensure the outage doesn't affect this net too? Better question, why can't we fail over to the net that's working to send these notifications/updates for our down services if the net isn't affected? That point is moot. My biggest complaint has been with networks that setup a channel like this but then get too busy during an outage to make use of it. If you are going to setup a channel like this, make sure you use it. Also, if you post a partial update, make sure you follow up with more information when you have it. Some of us read the archives to see if this information was posted and followed-up on in a timely fashion, to evaluate the outage reporting service record before signing up. The way notifications should be distributed is in a proactive manner and followed up as a ticket or some other relevant mechanism. Implementing a process like this is trivial in many environments. Incident response should, in most cases, include a mechanism like this that has already been deployed today. Modifications (technically speaking) should not be a big issue. --WJM IV
