Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-30 Thread Andrew D Kirch 
Is there anyone here who is legitimate using a freebie webmail account? 
I am proposing that the NANOG administration drop everything originating
from commonly used webmail providers, and add further RHS filters as
additional providers are identified as problems.

Andrew

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-30 Thread Anton Kapela 

On Mar 30, 2010, at 11:42 PM, Andrew D Kirch wrote:

> Is there anyone here who is legitimate using a freebie webmail account? 

I'm implicitly legit; further, gmail auto-threads all of the run-on posts 
automatically (much unlike mail.app, outlook 2k8, etc). What's the beef?

-Tk

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-30 Thread Larry Sheldon 
On 3/30/2010 22:42, Andrew D Kirch wrote:
> Is there anyone here who is legitimate using a freebie webmail account? 
> I am proposing that the NANOG administration drop everything originating
> from commonly used webmail providers, and add further RHS filters as
> additional providers are identified as problems.

I have mixed feelings--I use a gmail account for some things.

As a moderator on other lists, I'm more comfortable with taking a quick
hammer to miscreants with any debate off line.
-- 
Democracy: Three wolves and a sheep voting on the dinner menu.

Requiescas in pace o email
Ex turpi causa non oritur actio
Eppure si rinfresca

ICBM Targeting Information:  http://tinyurl.com/4sqczs
http://tinyurl.com/7tp8ml

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-30 Thread jim deleskie 
I'm betting more then a few of use free mail accts to keep this
separate from our work mail.  If your really having that much issue,
config your mail server to drop it yourself or unsub

Seriously

-jim   yes posted from gmail acct.

On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:42 AM, Andrew D Kirch  wrote:
> Is there anyone here who is legitimate using a freebie webmail account?
> I am proposing that the NANOG administration drop everything originating
> from commonly used webmail providers, and add further RHS filters as
> additional providers are identified as problems.
>
> Andrew
>
>

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-30 Thread Mark Foster 
On Wed, March 31, 2010 4:42 pm, Andrew D Kirch wrote:
> Is there anyone here who is legitimate using a freebie webmail account?
> I am proposing that the NANOG administration drop everything originating
> from commonly used webmail providers, and add further RHS filters as
> additional providers are identified as problems.
>


I've found that most folks administering mailing lists tend to advocate
that folks use a personal email address on them, not a professional one,
as it tends to free the list from a glut of 'Out of Office' notices,
rediculously long disclaimer footers, and other such things; this seems
particularly relevant for NANOG.

With that in mind and noting a goodly number of folks using gmail, among
others, i'm not sure the cost:benefit would be there?

There's other ways to moderate content on a mailing list

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-30 Thread neal rauhauser 
   I keep all of my mailing list stuff in gmail. I suppose I could move it,
but this list has so little trouble (unless gmail is doing a fantastic job
of shielding me) that I don't see the point.




On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 10:42 PM, Andrew D Kirch wrote:

> Is there anyone here who is legitimate using a freebie webmail account?
> I am proposing that the NANOG administration drop everything originating
> from commonly used webmail providers, and add further RHS filters as
> additional providers are identified as problems.
>
> Andrew
>
>


-- 
mailto:n...@layer3arts.com //
GoogleTalk: nrauhau...@gmail.com
GV: 202-642-1717

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-30 Thread Paul Ferguson 
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Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 9:00 PM, jim deleskie  wrote:

> I'm betting more then a few of use free mail accts to keep this
> separate from our work mail.  If your really having that much issue,
> config your mail server to drop it yourself or unsub
>
> Seriously
>
> -jim   yes posted from gmail acct.

Ditto.

- - ferg

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-- 
"Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson
 Engineering Architecture for the Internet
 fergdawgster(at)gmail.com
 ferg's tech blog: http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-30 Thread Andrew D Kirch 
Andrew D Kirch wrote:
> Is there anyone here who is legitimate using a freebie webmail account? 
> I am proposing that the NANOG administration drop everything originating
> from commonly used webmail providers, and add further RHS filters as
> additional providers are identified as problems.
>
> Andrew
>
>   
Ok, point made.

Andrew

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-30 Thread Jay Nakamura 
I use gmail for all mailing lists.  It's easier for me to organize my
work flow and catch up on threads on my BB when I have a spare idle
moment.

On 3/31/10, neal rauhauser  wrote:
>I keep all of my mailing list stuff in gmail. I suppose I could move it,
> but this list has so little trouble (unless gmail is doing a fantastic job
> of shielding me) that I don't see the point.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 10:42 PM, Andrew D Kirch wrote:
>
>> Is there anyone here who is legitimate using a freebie webmail account?
>> I am proposing that the NANOG administration drop everything originating
>> from commonly used webmail providers, and add further RHS filters as
>> additional providers are identified as problems.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> mailto:n...@layer3arts.com //
> GoogleTalk: nrauhau...@gmail.com
> GV: 202-642-1717
>

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-30 Thread Steve Bertrand 
On 2010.03.30 23:42, Andrew D Kirch wrote:

> I am proposing that the NANOG administration drop everything originating
> from commonly used webmail providers, 

I oppose this proposal.

There are very legitimate (and legal) reasons why people may want to
post to an operational list, using an address that can not tie them to
the location or business that they are posting from.

This list does not see much spam (or at least I don't). That said, let
the list maintainers decide.

Steve

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-30 Thread Mikael Abrahamsson 

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010, Steve Bertrand wrote:


On 2010.03.30 23:42, Andrew D Kirch wrote:


I am proposing that the NANOG administration drop everything originating
from commonly used webmail providers,


I oppose this proposal.

There are very legitimate (and legal) reasons why people may want to
post to an operational list, using an address that can not tie them to
the location or business that they are posting from.

This list does not see much spam (or at least I don't). That said, let
the list maintainers decide.


I would much prefer if EVERYBODY used freebie email accounts as opposed to 
their corporate ones, as this would make it more likely that they would 
quote "correctly" and we would get less silly legal disclaimers and out of 
office messages.


I don't use my work account for any mailing lists because it's totally 
useless for that purpose. I also will participate in these mailing lists 
regardless of my employer, thus I never understood why someone would want 
to post from their corporate accounts.


--
Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-30 Thread Seth Mattinen 
On 3/30/10 10:41 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
> 
> I would much prefer if EVERYBODY used freebie email accounts as opposed
> to their corporate ones, as this would make it more likely that they
> would quote "correctly" and we would get less silly legal disclaimers
> and out of office messages.
> 
> I don't use my work account for any mailing lists because it's totally
> useless for that purpose. I also will participate in these mailing lists
> regardless of my employer, thus I never understood why someone would
> want to post from their corporate accounts.
> 

That's an exact opposite of silly from the OP's request; my "corporate
account" works just fine.

~Seth

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-30 Thread Mikael Abrahamsson 

On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, Seth Mattinen wrote:

That's an exact opposite of silly from the OP's request; my "corporate 
account" works just fine.


Well, your corporate account seems to involve less silly (exchange/lotus 
notes) than most.


--
Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-30 Thread Steve Bertrand 
> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010, Steve Bertrand wrote:
>
>> On 2010.03.30 23:42, Andrew D Kirch wrote:
>>
>>> I am proposing that the NANOG administration drop everything
>>> originating
>>> from commonly used webmail providers,
>>
>> I oppose this proposal.
>>
>> There are very legitimate (and legal) reasons why people may want to
>> post to an operational list, using an address that can not tie them to
>> the location or business that they are posting from.
>>
>> This list does not see much spam (or at least I don't). That said, let
>> the list maintainers decide.
>
> I would much prefer if EVERYBODY used freebie email accounts as opposed to
> their corporate ones, as this would make it more likely that they would
> quote "correctly" and we would get less silly legal disclaimers and out of
> office messages.

Personally, I don't give a fsck about corporate tags and/or legal
notifications. My girl is a Federally certified Health and Safety Officer
and works within the Nuclear industry. Each email she sends me that
crosses her corporate Domino server contains about eight lines of
non-72-width crap which usually translates into twice the length of the
actual message.

Although she _can_ use my personal (or external, ie. freebie) email
services to relay out email from within her company, it likely isn't
something that she should be doing (although their internal IT policy
doesn't outright prohibit it...yet, or else I'd be the first to scream at
her).

The disclaimers, although annoying, to me are acceptable. Some enterprise
have strict guidelines on email/communication use. I would sooner see the
disclaimers as opposed to not have those valuable people not post at all.

> I don't use my work account for any mailing lists because it's totally
> useless for that purpose. I also will participate in these mailing lists
> regardless of my employer, thus I never understood why someone would want
> to post from their corporate accounts.

I feel that in many cases that there are very good reasons for posting
from such. Aside from the fact that some people post to ops/eng/rir/tech
etc lists from their corporate email address because of internal policy,
in many cases, I'd think that it makes sense that many postings to lists
are for work purposes directly. Almost all of mine are. Whether I send
from ste...@eagle.ca (my work email addr), st...@ibctech.ca or
st...@ipv6canada.com shouldn't matter.

I recognize your name Mikael, not your email address.

Regardless, disclaimers and legal fluff are easily discarded when replying ;)

Steve

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-31 Thread JC Dill 

Paul Ferguson wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 9:00 PM, jim deleskie  wrote:

  

I'm betting more then a few of use free mail accts to keep this
separate from our work mail.  If your really having that much issue,
config your mail server to drop it yourself or unsub

Seriously

-jim   yes posted from gmail acct.



Ditto.

- - ferg


+1  (posting from gmail account)

jc

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-31 Thread Rich Kulawiec 
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 11:42:46PM -0400, Andrew D Kirch wrote:
> I am proposing that the NANOG administration drop everything originating
> from commonly used webmail providers [...]

Bad idea.   While free webmail providers are prodigious sources of abuse,
they're not prodigious sources of abuse that makes it through to this list --
thanks to what I'm presuming is prudent configuration of the MTA and Mailman
instance involved in running it.

Additionally, some folks find that directing bulk, non-personal traffic
like mailing lists to free webmail accounts makes it easier for them to
participate.  (And as noted by others, it does seem to free us from
the meaningless, unenforceable, threatening disclaimers imposed by
some of the more clueless companies out there.)   If using those accounts
facilitates the participation of people who can contribute to the
community, then I see no reason at present to put up barriers to that.

---Rsk

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-31 Thread Henry Linneweh 
Currently there are 3556 post's from nanog in this mailist account, I use this 
1,
of ten sub-accounts that I have with this provider to focus clearly on Nanog 
related issues.
It is not free. 

I do however prefer that the professionals stay away from irc or facebook
cutsy pie names, it is also good if you show those names like fergie does
his, it is part of the network tradition and in good spirit.

-henry





From: JC Dill 
To: "nanog@nanog.org" 
Sent: Wed, March 31, 2010 12:04:32 AM
Subject: Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

Paul Ferguson wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 9:00 PM, jim deleskie  wrote:
>
>  
>> I'm betting more then a few of use free mail accts to keep this
>> separate from our work mail.  If your really having that much issue,
>> config your mail server to drop it yourself or unsub
>>
>> Seriously
>>
>> -jim  yes posted from gmail acct.
>>    
>
> Ditto.
>
> - - ferg

+1  (posting from gmail account)

jc

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-31 Thread Jorge Amodio 
>>> I'm betting more then a few of use free mail accts to keep this
>>> separate from our work mail.  If your really having that much issue,
>>> config your mail server to drop it yourself or unsub
>>>
>>> Seriously
>>>
>>> -jim   yes posted from gmail acct.
>>>
>>
>> Ditto.
>>
>> - - ferg
>
> +1  (posting from gmail account)

+2 (also from gmail)

free anti spam, no need for antivirus, free storage, spam don't go to
my "official" address, don't have to make backups, can read from
anywhere, mostly used for email lists.

The problem is the source not what service he/she uses, trolls will be
trolls regardless of what freebie fqdn they use.

Jorge

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-31 Thread Charles Mills 
We are not allowed to post from work email accounts to lists such as
these as well.

The CISO's reasoning (and he may have a point...) is that we might ask
the list "Hey...I can't figure out why my Cisco $MODEL router is doing
"this" when I upgrade to $VERSION of IOS."

Then someone trolling to hack you knows you have one of them in your
network running that version of code.  It still may be easy enough to
extrapolate where you work from your personal email using other
publicly available methods but

On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 4:49 AM, Jorge Amodio  wrote:
 I'm betting more then a few of use free mail accts to keep this
 separate from our work mail.  If your really having that much issue,
 config your mail server to drop it yourself or unsub

 Seriously

 -jim   yes posted from gmail acct.

>>>
>>> Ditto.
>>>
>>> - - ferg
>>
>> +1  (posting from gmail account)
>
> +2 (also from gmail)
>
> free anti spam, no need for antivirus, free storage, spam don't go to
> my "official" address, don't have to make backups, can read from
> anywhere, mostly used for email lists.
>
> The problem is the source not what service he/she uses, trolls will be
> trolls regardless of what freebie fqdn they use.
>
> Jorge
>
>

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-31 Thread Jens Link 
jim deleskie  writes:

Hi,

> I'm betting more then a few of use free mail accts to keep this separate
> from our work mail.  

As a positive side effect there are fewer "Out of Office replies" when
people use different accounts for "normal" work mail and mailing lists. 

> If your really having that much issue, config your mail server to drop
> it yourself or unsub

Or use a decent mail client which allows scoring and / or kill files. 

cheers,

Jens
-- 
-
| Foelderichstr. 40   | 13595 Berlin, Germany| +49-151-18721264 |
| http://blog.quux.de | jabber: jensl...@guug.de | ---  | 
-

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-31 Thread Henry Yen 
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 07:41:18AM +0200, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
> I would much prefer if EVERYBODY used freebie email accounts as opposed to 
> their corporate ones, as this would make it more likely that they would 
> quote "correctly" and we would get less silly legal disclaimers and out of 
> office messages.

What's your opinion (if any) about free-mail accounts listed for
ARIN/APNIC/RIPE/LACNIC/AFRINIC/KRNIC/TWNIC (RIR) contacts?

-- 
Henry Yen   Aegis Information Systems, Inc.
Senior Systems Programmer   Hicksville, New York

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-31 Thread Richard Barnes 
+1




On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:00 AM, jim deleskie  wrote:
> I'm betting more then a few of use free mail accts to keep this
> separate from our work mail.  If your really having that much issue,
> config your mail server to drop it yourself or unsub
>
> Seriously
>
> -jim   yes posted from gmail acct.
>
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:42 AM, Andrew D Kirch  wrote:
>> Is there anyone here who is legitimate using a freebie webmail account?
>> I am proposing that the NANOG administration drop everything originating
>> from commonly used webmail providers, and add further RHS filters as
>> additional providers are identified as problems.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>
>

RE: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-31 Thread Richey 
My employer has an unwritten policy that says we're free to post what we
want where we want as long as we do not make it obvious who our employer is.
I.E. don't post from the company email accounts.   I use both personal
domains and freebie accounts to comply with this request.

Richey

-Original Message-
From: Mikael Abrahamsson [mailto:swm...@swm.pp.se] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 2:01 AM
To: Seth Mattinen
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, Seth Mattinen wrote:

> That's an exact opposite of silly from the OP's request; my "corporate 
> account" works just fine.

Well, your corporate account seems to involve less silly (exchange/lotus
notes) than most.

-- 
Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-31 Thread Leigh Porter 


Until somebody does 'view headers' and sees

/X/-/Sender/-/IP
/
and oh look, it was sent from 'foobarco' ;-)

FAIL

--
Leigh


On 31/03/10 16:55, Richey wrote:

My employer has an unwritten policy that says we're free to post what we
want where we want as long as we do not make it obvious who our employer is.
I.E. don't post from the company email accounts.   I use both personal
domains and freebie accounts to comply with this request.

Richey

-Original Message-
From: Mikael Abrahamsson [mailto:swm...@swm.pp.se]
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 2:01 AM
To: Seth Mattinen
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, Seth Mattinen wrote:

   

That's an exact opposite of silly from the OP's request; my "corporate
account" works just fine.
 

Well, your corporate account seems to involve less silly (exchange/lotus
notes) than most.

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-31 Thread Tom Hutton 
I also use a "freebie" webmail account for nanog mail.   I would be
opposed to this.

Tom


On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 8:42 PM, Andrew D Kirch  wrote:
> Is there anyone here who is legitimate using a freebie webmail account?
> I am proposing that the NANOG administration drop everything originating
> from commonly used webmail providers, and add further RHS filters as
> additional providers are identified as problems.
>
> Andrew
>
>

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-31 Thread Charles Morris 
-1

On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Richard Barnes
 wrote:
> +1
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:00 AM, jim deleskie  wrote:
>> I'm betting more then a few of use free mail accts to keep this
>> separate from our work mail.  If your really having that much issue,
>> config your mail server to drop it yourself or unsub
>>
>> Seriously
>>
>> -jim   yes posted from gmail acct.
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:42 AM, Andrew D Kirch  wrote:
>>> Is there anyone here who is legitimate using a freebie webmail account?
>>> I am proposing that the NANOG administration drop everything originating
>>> from commonly used webmail providers, and add further RHS filters as
>>> additional providers are identified as problems.
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-31 Thread bmanning 

on the other hand, such a move would trim a huge number of list members,
which might refocus the list to "North America".

--bill


On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 09:25:56AM -0700, Tom Hutton wrote:
> I also use a "freebie" webmail account for nanog mail.   I would be
> opposed to this.
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 8:42 PM, Andrew D Kirch  wrote:
> > Is there anyone here who is legitimate using a freebie webmail account?
> > I am proposing that the NANOG administration drop everything originating
> > from commonly used webmail providers, and add further RHS filters as
> > additional providers are identified as problems.
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> >

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-31 Thread Daniel Staal 

On Wed, March 31, 2010 12:14 pm, Leigh Porter wrote:
>
> Until somebody does 'view headers' and sees
>
> /X/-/Sender/-/IP
> /
> and oh look, it was sent from 'foobarco' ;-)

That depends on how they are sending it, of course.  Webmail usually just
has the IP of the host, and I imagine quite a few others around here have
their own personal servers that could also be used for this, one way or
another.

Then of course there are things like Blackberries and iPhones that can
send email themselves, and are likely to have IP addresses that are linked
to something besides their current location.

Daniel T. Staal

---
This email copyright the author.  Unless otherwise noted, you
are expressly allowed to retransmit, quote, or otherwise use
the contents for non-commercial purposes.  This copyright will
expire 5 years after the author's death, or in 30 years,
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---

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-31 Thread Patrick W. Gilmore 
On Mar 31, 2010, at 12:43 PM, Daniel Staal wrote:
> On Wed, March 31, 2010 12:14 pm, Leigh Porter wrote:
>> 
>> Until somebody does 'view headers' and sees
>> 
>> /X/-/Sender/-/IP
>> /
>> and oh look, it was sent from 'foobarco' ;-)
> 
> That depends on how they are sending it, of course.  Webmail usually just
> has the IP of the host, and I imagine quite a few others around here have
> their own personal servers that could also be used for this, one way or
> another.

GMail doesn't even add that header, so you don't have to worry where you are 
browsing from.

<
 cue thread about Google's arrogance that they know better how to stop spam 
than anyone else;
 cue thread about Google's complete inability to stop spam even close to as 
well as many others;
 cue thread about Google's hypocrisy about adding X-Sender-IP on IMAP injected 
mail, but not through web mail;
 cue thread about people talking about e-mail / spam on NANOG;
 cue thread about moving the whole thing to nanog-futures;
 cue thread about 
>

-- 
TTFN,
patrick


> Then of course there are things like Blackberries and iPhones that can
> send email themselves, and are likely to have IP addresses that are linked
> to something besides their current location.
> 
> Daniel T. Staal
> 
> ---
> This email copyright the author.  Unless otherwise noted, you
> are expressly allowed to retransmit, quote, or otherwise use
> the contents for non-commercial purposes.  This copyright will
> expire 5 years after the author's death, or in 30 years,
> whichever is longer, unless such a period is in excess of
> local copyright law.
> ---
> 
>

Re: Posting from freebie E-mail Accounts

2010-03-31 Thread Randy Bush 
> on the other hand, such a move would trim a huge number of list
> members, which might refocus the list to "North America".