Re: [SPAM]RE: [SPAM]RE: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?
Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net writes: The biggest problem with Mikrotik is you just can¹t call them up for support on buggy code. In a critical network this can be a major problem. I've contacted them (via email) and the experience seems to be exactly the same as dealing with first level TAC at the big guys: the guy you contact doesn't care much about your problem once he realizes that it's a legitimate issue with their stuff and not simply a case of pilot error for which he can refer you to the documentation, and eventually you give up and develop a workaround, such as it is. -r
RE: [SPAM]RE: [SPAM]RE: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?
Mikrotik really relies on its list of consultants and trainers, these are all outside companies, yes such as mine, that provide the higher class of support than MikroTik own e-mail. . While their e-mail does have a lack of responsiveness, I was told the volume that they do get form other parts of the world, not saying that's an excuse, but it is what it is. Many people in the WISP and smaller ISP markets rely on these consulting companies to not only help them with MikroTik but other hardware/software and business decisions, LTI (yes the company I work for) has more certified trainers and engineers for MikroTik than any other in North America, but there is a list from MikroTik that lists certified consultants available as well. Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Author of Learn RouterOS- Second Edition Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net - Skype: linktechs -- Create Wireless Coverage's with www.towercoverage.com - 900Mhz - LTE - 3G - 3.65 - TV Whitespace -Original Message- From: Rob Seastrom [mailto:r...@seastrom.com] Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 6:16 AM To: Justin Wilson Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: [SPAM]RE: [SPAM]RE: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences? Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net writes: The biggest problem with Mikrotik is you just can¹t call them up for support on buggy code. In a critical network this can be a major problem. I've contacted them (via email) and the experience seems to be exactly the same as dealing with first level TAC at the big guys: the guy you contact doesn't care much about your problem once he realizes that it's a legitimate issue with their stuff and not simply a case of pilot error for which he can refer you to the documentation, and eventually you give up and develop a workaround, such as it is. -r
Re: [SPAM]RE: [SPAM]RE: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?
Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net writes: Mikrotik really relies on its list of consultants and trainers, these are all outside companies, yes such as mine, that provide the higher class of support than MikroTik own e-mail. . While their e-mail does have a lack of responsiveness, I was told the volume that they do get form other parts of the world, not saying that's an excuse, but it is what it is. This wasn't a support issue; it was bug reports. Things such as: * your CLI has an incomplete implementation of the Emacs key bindings (detailed list elided here on nanog@for brevity's sake but if you've ever used Mikrotik kit and are a seasoned CLI user on C and J platforms you know what I'm talking about); please consider fixing or adopting libcli, gnu readline, or somesuch in future releases. * your GRE implementation always has a protocol type of 0x0800 in the GRE header even when it is forwarding an IPv6 packet (packet dumps attached). * ssh sessions crash when ServerAliveInterval SSH application layer keepalives kick off. See http://www.openssh.org/faq.html section 2.12 or http://www.kehlet.cx/articles/129.html To replicate: ssh -o ServerAliveInterval=120 admin@myrouter (to their credit this was eventually fixed in 5.x - this behavior was observed in 5.0rc4) * /ping and /tool/traceroute fail for a DNS name for which there is no A record, only an record (although both commands will accept an IPv6 address as digits). This is still a problem today. * When trying to remove files, it seems that they are not removed by number, but rather by name, despite what the online help says. There was more stuff along those lines. Thanks for the bug reports; I made sure to open tickets for them but we can't commit to when or if they'll get addressed due to competing priorities but they've absolutely been documented would have been a fine reply; I completely understand the Real World considerations involved and that my priorities were not necessarily their priorities. Unfortunately the return email left me with the impression that nobody cared and that they were not equipped to handle issues brought to their attention by people with field experience, hence the unfavorable parallels to the big guys. Note that this has not kept my from speccing their kit when the task calls for something that's surprisingly good considering how inexpensive it is! So maybe from a business perspective they were entirely correct to blow me off - at least where it comes to revenue attributable to Rob Seastrom, the negative impact has been nil. -r
Re: [SPAM]RE: [SPAM]RE: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?
The biggest problem with Mikrotik is you just can¹t call them up for support on buggy code. In a critical network this can be a major problem. Justin --- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net MTIN Consulting Mikrotik UBNT Climbing Network Design http://www.mtin.net/ http://www.mtin.net/blog http://www.thebrotherswisp.com -Original Message- From: Dale Rumph dale.ru...@gmail.com Date: Friday, December 27, 2013 at 10:04 AM To: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net Cc: NANOG list nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: [SPAM]RE: [SPAM]RE: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences? Out of all the network hardware I have worked on in operations these were by far some of the worst. I read lots of good things but like most things in life these just dont stack up against a Cisco or Juniper for stability and reliability. Most of the ISP's I have worked with were HSD but i also followed the progression path in the industry so i have time with Dial Up, ADSL/X/...,WISP's, Data Centers etc. and FTTH I generally only see these in WISP's and some DSL installs. Never anything with huge traffic load and full tables. Generally always driven by the cost factor alone without regard to much else imho. But that's just my experience. However maybe there are people that have managed to keep these up and handle all you have requested. just my 2c On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.netwrote: We have many with full routing tables. Load balancing, works fine, I have one site with 8 DSL lines doing balancing across them. We typically don't use a GRE tunnel, but OpenVPN or IPSEC work great. Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Author of Learn RouterOS- Second Edition Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net - Skype: linktechs -- Create Wireless Coverage's with www.towercoverage.com - 900Mhz - LTE - 3G - 3.65 - TV Whitespace -Original Message- From: matt kelly [mailto:mjke...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 8:41 AM To: Raymond Burkholder Cc: NANOG list Subject: [SPAM]RE: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences? They can not handle a full routing table. The load balancing doesn't work. They can not properly reassemble fragmented packets, and therefore drop all but the first piece. They can not reliably handle traffic loads over maybe 200 Mbps, we needed 4-6 Gbps capacity. They can not hold a gre tunnel connection. On Dec 27, 2013 9:07 AM, Raymond Burkholder r...@oneunified.net wrote: My real world experience with these is that they suck. Plain and simple. Don't waste your time. Would you mind elaborating what you were trying to accomplish and what failed? Thank you. Ray -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Re: [SPAM]RE: [SPAM]RE: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?
Out of all the network hardware I have worked on in operations these were by far some of the worst. I read lots of good things but like most things in life these just dont stack up against a Cisco or Juniper for stability and reliability. Most of the ISP's I have worked with were HSD but i also followed the progression path in the industry so i have time with Dial Up, ADSL/X/...,WISP's, Data Centers etc. and FTTH I generally only see these in WISP's and some DSL installs. Never anything with huge traffic load and full tables. Generally always driven by the cost factor alone without regard to much else imho. But that's just my experience. However maybe there are people that have managed to keep these up and handle all you have requested. just my 2c On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.netwrote: We have many with full routing tables. Load balancing, works fine, I have one site with 8 DSL lines doing balancing across them. We typically don't use a GRE tunnel, but OpenVPN or IPSEC work great. Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Author of Learn RouterOS- Second Edition Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net - Skype: linktechs -- Create Wireless Coverage's with www.towercoverage.com - 900Mhz - LTE - 3G - 3.65 - TV Whitespace -Original Message- From: matt kelly [mailto:mjke...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 8:41 AM To: Raymond Burkholder Cc: NANOG list Subject: [SPAM]RE: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences? They can not handle a full routing table. The load balancing doesn't work. They can not properly reassemble fragmented packets, and therefore drop all but the first piece. They can not reliably handle traffic loads over maybe 200 Mbps, we needed 4-6 Gbps capacity. They can not hold a gre tunnel connection. On Dec 27, 2013 9:07 AM, Raymond Burkholder r...@oneunified.net wrote: My real world experience with these is that they suck. Plain and simple. Don't waste your time. Would you mind elaborating what you were trying to accomplish and what failed? Thank you. Ray -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
