Re: CenturyLink Fiber Latency Issues (Seattle, WA)
I second this, most best effort Broadband cpe equipment will choke with lots of concurrent connections On Tue, Nov 2, 2021, 8:25 PM P C wrote: > If this is connection count related only, It is most likely an issue with > the CPE (router), NAT table, or similar. > > On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 8:21 AM Neel Chauhan wrote: > >> I tried that back in September, it didn't work. It doesn't happen on my >> hop but the one after that. Even a second GPON connection shows the >> issues if one is running the offending traffic. >> >> The issue occurs even if I'm using 50 Mbps out of my 940. >> >> It may be bufferbloat on CL's side but they keep denying the issue. >> >> I guess I'll have to break the bank and get Comcast Gigabit Pro. >> >> CenturyLink should just get bought out by another telco, like how >> Cablevision got bought by Altice. >> >> -Neel >> >> On 2021-11-01 20:52, Ryan Hamel wrote: >> > Neel, >> > >> > Sounds like buffer bloat. >> > >> > Run a speed test, whatever is your maximum for your download and upload >> > take >> > 10% away from it, and setup traffic shaping in OPNsense >> > (https://docs.opnsense.org/manual/shaping.html) with those values. If >> > the >> > issue goes away, then you're exceeding the buffer of CenturyLink's >> > device >> > with the bursts of traffic. >> > >> > Ryan >> > >> > -Original Message- >> > From: NANOG On Behalf Of >> > Neel >> > Chauhan >> > Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 6:44 PM >> > To: nanog@nanog.org >> > Subject: CenturyLink Fiber Latency Issues (Seattle, WA) >> > >> > Hi NANOG Mailing List, >> > >> > I don't know if any of you work at CenturyLink/Lumen, very less on >> > their >> > Fiber network in Seattle, WA. However, here's my story. >> > >> > If I attempt to run certain applications that use 1000, or 1 TCP >> > connections, I get latency spikes. It is based on how many connections, >> > but >> > also how much bandwidth is used. This means certain things like Tor >> > relays >> > are off limits to me (which I wish to run). >> > >> > On an idle connection, the PingPlotter outputs look like this: >> > https://centurylinklatencyissues.com/image-000.png >> > >> > If I attempt to run BitTorrent with 1000 connections in Deluge, >> > PingPlotter >> > looks like this: >> > https://centurylinklatencyissues.com/image-002.png >> > >> > Getting support, or even executive contacts to admit the issue hasn't >> > worked. They all love to blame my equipment or applications, when CL >> > routers >> > also show the issue when I run the same things whereas my same exact >> > OPNsense box on Google Fiber Webpass running Tor at another address had >> > no >> > issues whatsoever, and I can ping other Tor relays on CenturyLink AS209 >> > just >> > fine (from a VPS). >> > >> > The most competent person I dealt with was actually one tech. He told >> > me >> > there was "capacity issues" in our neighborhood, and that's the reason >> > for >> > the issues. However, nothing was done about it afterwards, I'm guessing >> > since I turned off my Tor relay after the visit to avoid complaints >> > from >> > family members. >> > >> > On an AT forum, people have said GPON gives latency spikes/packet >> > loss on >> > congestion: >> > >> https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r33242889-How-rare-is-GPON-XGSPON-saturatio >> > n >> > >> > The capacity managers in Seattle are literally dragging their feet: >> > it's >> > 100x worse than AT's 802.1X. I know AT and CenturyLink don't >> > compete, >> > but if I had to choose between AT Fiber and CenturyLink, I'll take >> > AT in >> > a heartbeat, no ifs, no buts, even if I have to use AT's crappy >> > router >> > instead of my OPNsense box. >> > >> > Going back, do any of you who work at CenturyLink/Lumen can get me to >> > the >> > right people, hopefully the capacity managers in Seattle? >> > >> > I could go with Comcast, but it's either (a) 35 Mbps uploads or (b) >> > $329/mo >> > for "Gigabit Pro" with a 2-year contract and a steep install fee. I am >> > seriously considering Gigabit Pro even if it breaks the bank, but hope >> > I >> > won't have to go there. >> > >> > I don't need 2 Gbps and would rather pay $65 than $329. 300-500 Mbps >> > uploads >> > when I need it is the sweet spot for me (even without Tor) which CL >> > GPON >> > should easily handle without a sweat. I also don't exactly >> > **trust** Comcast, they're a horrible company in many metrics, but in >> > some >> > ways Comcast is more competent than CenturyLink. >> > >> > Best, >> > >> > Neel Chauhan >> >
Re: CenturyLink Fiber Latency Issues (Seattle, WA)
If this is connection count related only, It is most likely an issue with the CPE (router), NAT table, or similar. On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 8:21 AM Neel Chauhan wrote: > I tried that back in September, it didn't work. It doesn't happen on my > hop but the one after that. Even a second GPON connection shows the > issues if one is running the offending traffic. > > The issue occurs even if I'm using 50 Mbps out of my 940. > > It may be bufferbloat on CL's side but they keep denying the issue. > > I guess I'll have to break the bank and get Comcast Gigabit Pro. > > CenturyLink should just get bought out by another telco, like how > Cablevision got bought by Altice. > > -Neel > > On 2021-11-01 20:52, Ryan Hamel wrote: > > Neel, > > > > Sounds like buffer bloat. > > > > Run a speed test, whatever is your maximum for your download and upload > > take > > 10% away from it, and setup traffic shaping in OPNsense > > (https://docs.opnsense.org/manual/shaping.html) with those values. If > > the > > issue goes away, then you're exceeding the buffer of CenturyLink's > > device > > with the bursts of traffic. > > > > Ryan > > > > -Original Message- > > From: NANOG On Behalf Of > > Neel > > Chauhan > > Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 6:44 PM > > To: nanog@nanog.org > > Subject: CenturyLink Fiber Latency Issues (Seattle, WA) > > > > Hi NANOG Mailing List, > > > > I don't know if any of you work at CenturyLink/Lumen, very less on > > their > > Fiber network in Seattle, WA. However, here's my story. > > > > If I attempt to run certain applications that use 1000, or 1 TCP > > connections, I get latency spikes. It is based on how many connections, > > but > > also how much bandwidth is used. This means certain things like Tor > > relays > > are off limits to me (which I wish to run). > > > > On an idle connection, the PingPlotter outputs look like this: > > https://centurylinklatencyissues.com/image-000.png > > > > If I attempt to run BitTorrent with 1000 connections in Deluge, > > PingPlotter > > looks like this: > > https://centurylinklatencyissues.com/image-002.png > > > > Getting support, or even executive contacts to admit the issue hasn't > > worked. They all love to blame my equipment or applications, when CL > > routers > > also show the issue when I run the same things whereas my same exact > > OPNsense box on Google Fiber Webpass running Tor at another address had > > no > > issues whatsoever, and I can ping other Tor relays on CenturyLink AS209 > > just > > fine (from a VPS). > > > > The most competent person I dealt with was actually one tech. He told > > me > > there was "capacity issues" in our neighborhood, and that's the reason > > for > > the issues. However, nothing was done about it afterwards, I'm guessing > > since I turned off my Tor relay after the visit to avoid complaints > > from > > family members. > > > > On an AT forum, people have said GPON gives latency spikes/packet > > loss on > > congestion: > > > https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r33242889-How-rare-is-GPON-XGSPON-saturatio > > n > > > > The capacity managers in Seattle are literally dragging their feet: > > it's > > 100x worse than AT's 802.1X. I know AT and CenturyLink don't > > compete, > > but if I had to choose between AT Fiber and CenturyLink, I'll take > > AT in > > a heartbeat, no ifs, no buts, even if I have to use AT's crappy > > router > > instead of my OPNsense box. > > > > Going back, do any of you who work at CenturyLink/Lumen can get me to > > the > > right people, hopefully the capacity managers in Seattle? > > > > I could go with Comcast, but it's either (a) 35 Mbps uploads or (b) > > $329/mo > > for "Gigabit Pro" with a 2-year contract and a steep install fee. I am > > seriously considering Gigabit Pro even if it breaks the bank, but hope > > I > > won't have to go there. > > > > I don't need 2 Gbps and would rather pay $65 than $329. 300-500 Mbps > > uploads > > when I need it is the sweet spot for me (even without Tor) which CL > > GPON > > should easily handle without a sweat. I also don't exactly > > **trust** Comcast, they're a horrible company in many metrics, but in > > some > > ways Comcast is more competent than CenturyLink. > > > > Best, > > > > Neel Chauhan >
Re: CenturyLink Fiber Latency Issues (Seattle, WA)
Hi, I have taught of an (hackish) workaround for now. Enable my Tor relays, but at the same time switch my non-Tor traffic to Verizon "LTE Home". Then hope my neighbors have service calls with CenturyLink which forces them to fix the issue (a tech told me about "capacity issues"). Monitor the CL connection every day, and if or when CenturyLink fixes the issue, cancel Verizon and enjoy. I could get Xfinity Prepaid for much cheaper, but since the Coax drop on our house is cut and we have no Coax outlets, the install would be hairy and long. CenturyLink had an advantage here since while the home was being flipped CL upgraded the street to fiber. The copper drop is still there and attached (Bell System 305A2 anyone?), but will probably never be used again. -Neel On 2021-11-02 07:28, Neel Chauhan wrote: I tried that back in September, it didn't work. It doesn't happen on my hop but the one after that. Even a second GPON connection shows the issues if one is running the offending traffic. The issue occurs even if I'm using 50 Mbps out of my 940. It may be bufferbloat on CL's side but they keep denying the issue. I guess I'll have to break the bank and get Comcast Gigabit Pro. CenturyLink should just get bought out by another telco, like how Cablevision got bought by Altice. -Neel On 2021-11-01 20:52, Ryan Hamel wrote: Neel, Sounds like buffer bloat. Run a speed test, whatever is your maximum for your download and upload take 10% away from it, and setup traffic shaping in OPNsense (https://docs.opnsense.org/manual/shaping.html) with those values. If the issue goes away, then you're exceeding the buffer of CenturyLink's device with the bursts of traffic. Ryan -Original Message- From: NANOG On Behalf Of Neel Chauhan Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 6:44 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: CenturyLink Fiber Latency Issues (Seattle, WA) Hi NANOG Mailing List, I don't know if any of you work at CenturyLink/Lumen, very less on their Fiber network in Seattle, WA. However, here's my story. If I attempt to run certain applications that use 1000, or 1 TCP connections, I get latency spikes. It is based on how many connections, but also how much bandwidth is used. This means certain things like Tor relays are off limits to me (which I wish to run). On an idle connection, the PingPlotter outputs look like this: https://centurylinklatencyissues.com/image-000.png If I attempt to run BitTorrent with 1000 connections in Deluge, PingPlotter looks like this: https://centurylinklatencyissues.com/image-002.png Getting support, or even executive contacts to admit the issue hasn't worked. They all love to blame my equipment or applications, when CL routers also show the issue when I run the same things whereas my same exact OPNsense box on Google Fiber Webpass running Tor at another address had no issues whatsoever, and I can ping other Tor relays on CenturyLink AS209 just fine (from a VPS). The most competent person I dealt with was actually one tech. He told me there was "capacity issues" in our neighborhood, and that's the reason for the issues. However, nothing was done about it afterwards, I'm guessing since I turned off my Tor relay after the visit to avoid complaints from family members. On an AT forum, people have said GPON gives latency spikes/packet loss on congestion: https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r33242889-How-rare-is-GPON-XGSPON-saturatio n The capacity managers in Seattle are literally dragging their feet: it's 100x worse than AT's 802.1X. I know AT and CenturyLink don't compete, but if I had to choose between AT Fiber and CenturyLink, I'll take AT in a heartbeat, no ifs, no buts, even if I have to use AT's crappy router instead of my OPNsense box. Going back, do any of you who work at CenturyLink/Lumen can get me to the right people, hopefully the capacity managers in Seattle? I could go with Comcast, but it's either (a) 35 Mbps uploads or (b) $329/mo for "Gigabit Pro" with a 2-year contract and a steep install fee. I am seriously considering Gigabit Pro even if it breaks the bank, but hope I won't have to go there. I don't need 2 Gbps and would rather pay $65 than $329. 300-500 Mbps uploads when I need it is the sweet spot for me (even without Tor) which CL GPON should easily handle without a sweat. I also don't exactly **trust** Comcast, they're a horrible company in many metrics, but in some ways Comcast is more competent than CenturyLink. Best, Neel Chauhan
Re: CenturyLink Fiber Latency Issues (Seattle, WA)
I tried that back in September, it didn't work. It doesn't happen on my hop but the one after that. Even a second GPON connection shows the issues if one is running the offending traffic. The issue occurs even if I'm using 50 Mbps out of my 940. It may be bufferbloat on CL's side but they keep denying the issue. I guess I'll have to break the bank and get Comcast Gigabit Pro. CenturyLink should just get bought out by another telco, like how Cablevision got bought by Altice. -Neel On 2021-11-01 20:52, Ryan Hamel wrote: Neel, Sounds like buffer bloat. Run a speed test, whatever is your maximum for your download and upload take 10% away from it, and setup traffic shaping in OPNsense (https://docs.opnsense.org/manual/shaping.html) with those values. If the issue goes away, then you're exceeding the buffer of CenturyLink's device with the bursts of traffic. Ryan -Original Message- From: NANOG On Behalf Of Neel Chauhan Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 6:44 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: CenturyLink Fiber Latency Issues (Seattle, WA) Hi NANOG Mailing List, I don't know if any of you work at CenturyLink/Lumen, very less on their Fiber network in Seattle, WA. However, here's my story. If I attempt to run certain applications that use 1000, or 1 TCP connections, I get latency spikes. It is based on how many connections, but also how much bandwidth is used. This means certain things like Tor relays are off limits to me (which I wish to run). On an idle connection, the PingPlotter outputs look like this: https://centurylinklatencyissues.com/image-000.png If I attempt to run BitTorrent with 1000 connections in Deluge, PingPlotter looks like this: https://centurylinklatencyissues.com/image-002.png Getting support, or even executive contacts to admit the issue hasn't worked. They all love to blame my equipment or applications, when CL routers also show the issue when I run the same things whereas my same exact OPNsense box on Google Fiber Webpass running Tor at another address had no issues whatsoever, and I can ping other Tor relays on CenturyLink AS209 just fine (from a VPS). The most competent person I dealt with was actually one tech. He told me there was "capacity issues" in our neighborhood, and that's the reason for the issues. However, nothing was done about it afterwards, I'm guessing since I turned off my Tor relay after the visit to avoid complaints from family members. On an AT forum, people have said GPON gives latency spikes/packet loss on congestion: https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r33242889-How-rare-is-GPON-XGSPON-saturatio n The capacity managers in Seattle are literally dragging their feet: it's 100x worse than AT's 802.1X. I know AT and CenturyLink don't compete, but if I had to choose between AT Fiber and CenturyLink, I'll take AT in a heartbeat, no ifs, no buts, even if I have to use AT's crappy router instead of my OPNsense box. Going back, do any of you who work at CenturyLink/Lumen can get me to the right people, hopefully the capacity managers in Seattle? I could go with Comcast, but it's either (a) 35 Mbps uploads or (b) $329/mo for "Gigabit Pro" with a 2-year contract and a steep install fee. I am seriously considering Gigabit Pro even if it breaks the bank, but hope I won't have to go there. I don't need 2 Gbps and would rather pay $65 than $329. 300-500 Mbps uploads when I need it is the sweet spot for me (even without Tor) which CL GPON should easily handle without a sweat. I also don't exactly **trust** Comcast, they're a horrible company in many metrics, but in some ways Comcast is more competent than CenturyLink. Best, Neel Chauhan
RE: CenturyLink Fiber Latency Issues (Seattle, WA)
Neel, Sounds like buffer bloat. Run a speed test, whatever is your maximum for your download and upload take 10% away from it, and setup traffic shaping in OPNsense (https://docs.opnsense.org/manual/shaping.html) with those values. If the issue goes away, then you're exceeding the buffer of CenturyLink's device with the bursts of traffic. Ryan -Original Message- From: NANOG On Behalf Of Neel Chauhan Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 6:44 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: CenturyLink Fiber Latency Issues (Seattle, WA) Hi NANOG Mailing List, I don't know if any of you work at CenturyLink/Lumen, very less on their Fiber network in Seattle, WA. However, here's my story. If I attempt to run certain applications that use 1000, or 1 TCP connections, I get latency spikes. It is based on how many connections, but also how much bandwidth is used. This means certain things like Tor relays are off limits to me (which I wish to run). On an idle connection, the PingPlotter outputs look like this: https://centurylinklatencyissues.com/image-000.png If I attempt to run BitTorrent with 1000 connections in Deluge, PingPlotter looks like this: https://centurylinklatencyissues.com/image-002.png Getting support, or even executive contacts to admit the issue hasn't worked. They all love to blame my equipment or applications, when CL routers also show the issue when I run the same things whereas my same exact OPNsense box on Google Fiber Webpass running Tor at another address had no issues whatsoever, and I can ping other Tor relays on CenturyLink AS209 just fine (from a VPS). The most competent person I dealt with was actually one tech. He told me there was "capacity issues" in our neighborhood, and that's the reason for the issues. However, nothing was done about it afterwards, I'm guessing since I turned off my Tor relay after the visit to avoid complaints from family members. On an AT forum, people have said GPON gives latency spikes/packet loss on congestion: https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r33242889-How-rare-is-GPON-XGSPON-saturatio n The capacity managers in Seattle are literally dragging their feet: it's 100x worse than AT's 802.1X. I know AT and CenturyLink don't compete, but if I had to choose between AT Fiber and CenturyLink, I'll take AT in a heartbeat, no ifs, no buts, even if I have to use AT's crappy router instead of my OPNsense box. Going back, do any of you who work at CenturyLink/Lumen can get me to the right people, hopefully the capacity managers in Seattle? I could go with Comcast, but it's either (a) 35 Mbps uploads or (b) $329/mo for "Gigabit Pro" with a 2-year contract and a steep install fee. I am seriously considering Gigabit Pro even if it breaks the bank, but hope I won't have to go there. I don't need 2 Gbps and would rather pay $65 than $329. 300-500 Mbps uploads when I need it is the sweet spot for me (even without Tor) which CL GPON should easily handle without a sweat. I also don't exactly **trust** Comcast, they're a horrible company in many metrics, but in some ways Comcast is more competent than CenturyLink. Best, Neel Chauhan
