RE: Future of WiMax
This is not exactly true. With the 3G networks (GSM) you can get. 7.2-Mbps HSDPA (downstream) 5.8-Mbps HSUPA (upstream) LTE speeds are much more comparable to Wimax. -Original Message- From: Holmes,David A [mailto:dhol...@mwdh2o.com] Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 10:16 AM To: Seth Mattinen; nanOG list Subject: RE: Future of WiMax For business purposes such as fixed wireless access for small branch offices, it would seem that Wi-Max is superior to current GSM and CDMA proprietary networks in that the upload/download speeds are symmetric. It appears that GSM and CDMA networks are based on the asymmetric low upload bandwidth/high download bandwidth model, thus placing severe restrictions on business use for fixed locations.
Re: Future of WiMax
On 2010-06-18 10:49, Akyol, Bora A wrote: This is not exactly true. With the 3G networks (GSM) you can get. 7.2-Mbps HSDPA (downstream) 5.8-Mbps HSUPA (upstream) 3gpp rel7 hsdpa/hsupa goes about 4 fold faster than that down and twice as fast up without having to resort to mimo. whether any of these technologies can beat a recycled 802.11n phy with time division duplex in the mac layer as far as throughput goes is very much an open question. most of what you'd consider really high throughput from lte systems comes a the expense of spectrum that is shared with a a lot of other devices so don't think for a second you're going to get 170Mb/s down and 80Mb/s up. LTE speeds are much more comparable to Wimax. -Original Message- From: Holmes,David A [mailto:dhol...@mwdh2o.com] Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 10:16 AM To: Seth Mattinen; nanOG list Subject: RE: Future of WiMax For business purposes such as fixed wireless access for small branch offices, it would seem that Wi-Max is superior to current GSM and CDMA proprietary networks in that the upload/download speeds are symmetric. It appears that GSM and CDMA networks are based on the asymmetric low upload bandwidth/high download bandwidth model, thus placing severe restrictions on business use for fixed locations.
RE: Future of WiMax
Lots of my clients (Wireless ISPs) have looked into deploying it, however the costs are well over 20 times the cost of a unlicensed system per access point. I know it will be deployed as we work with some of the backend routing etc. and installation with some of clearwires subs, but most of my clients have moved on to other cheaper, more proven technologies. Just what is going on in the WISP industry for the most part. 802.11n so far on point-2-point links, are working quite well, cheap hardware as well as ease of use is playing factors in this. We are seeing 10+ mile N links running 60-70 meg TCP and over 200 UDP using only 2x2 MIMO. --- Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: Rubens Kuhl [mailto:rube...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 2:48 PM To: Seth Mattinen Cc: nanOG list Subject: Re: Future of WiMax The future of WiMAX seems a lot less promising now that FD-LTE is the clear winner for wide-scale mobile deployment, and TD-LTE, 802.11n and proprietary technologies will compete for non-paired spectrum and/or niche markets. But one can build a network with WiMAX and make money out of it; global market forces have established the big picture, not what would happen on a specific scenario. Rubens On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Seth Mattinen se...@rollernet.us wrote: A while back I remember reading a comment here that WiMax is not a future proof technology and that several manufacturers have dropped it or something to that effect. I think it was in the starting a WiMax ISP thread. This has stuck in my head, and I was curious if there was any truth to this. WiMax sounds promising, but I certainly don't hear a lot about it other than Sprint/Clear. Is it just that everyone that's doing wireless is sticking with relatively inexpensive 802.11 a/b/g/n products, or is WiMax really a dead end? ~Seth
Re: Future of WiMax
On 06/17/2010 09:46 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote: Lots of my clients (Wireless ISPs) have looked into deploying it, however the costs are well over 20 times the cost of a unlicensed system per access point. Yeah...that is really the crux of the problem. Every WISP I know would switch over in a heartbeat if the upfront cost was the same as deploying many well know 5.8GHz systems. Battling with interference in the 5.8GHz can be tough at times, at least with the 3.65GHz range there is some control over frequency use, but even so, dealing with frequency use in 5.8GHz is worth it for the cost savings.
RE: Future of WiMax
And even then, there is not much spectrum in 3.65. It still don't penetrate trees as well as 2.4 GHz as well. --- Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: Bret Clark [mailto:bcl...@spectraaccess.com] Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 9:00 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Future of WiMax On 06/17/2010 09:46 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote: Lots of my clients (Wireless ISPs) have looked into deploying it, however the costs are well over 20 times the cost of a unlicensed system per access point. Yeah...that is really the crux of the problem. Every WISP I know would switch over in a heartbeat if the upfront cost was the same as deploying many well know 5.8GHz systems. Battling with interference in the 5.8GHz can be tough at times, at least with the 3.65GHz range there is some control over frequency use, but even so, dealing with frequency use in 5.8GHz is worth it for the cost savings.
Re: Future of WiMax
On Jun 17, 2010, at 10:00 AM, Bret Clark wrote: On 06/17/2010 09:46 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote: Lots of my clients (Wireless ISPs) have looked into deploying it, however the costs are well over 20 times the cost of a unlicensed system per access point. Yeah...that is really the crux of the problem. Every WISP I know would switch over in a heartbeat if the upfront cost was the same as deploying many well know 5.8GHz systems. Battling with interference in the 5.8GHz can be tough at times, at least with the 3.65GHz range there is some control over frequency use, but even so, dealing with frequency use in 5.8GHz is worth it for the cost savings. Yup, the ability to pick up a $80 5.8ghz integrated device w/ antenna, etc.. that does PoE (eg: google NBM5-22), it's hard to argue for more expensive gear. - Jared
RE: Future of WiMax
For business purposes such as fixed wireless access for small branch offices, it would seem that Wi-Max is superior to current GSM and CDMA proprietary networks in that the upload/download speeds are symmetric. It appears that GSM and CDMA networks are based on the asymmetric low upload bandwidth/high download bandwidth model, thus placing severe restrictions on business use for fixed locations. -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen [mailto:se...@rollernet.us] Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 12:35 PM To: nanOG list Subject: Future of WiMax A while back I remember reading a comment here that WiMax is not a future proof technology and that several manufacturers have dropped it or something to that effect. I think it was in the starting a WiMax ISP thread. This has stuck in my head, and I was curious if there was any truth to this. WiMax sounds promising, but I certainly don't hear a lot about it other than Sprint/Clear. Is it just that everyone that's doing wireless is sticking with relatively inexpensive 802.11 a/b/g/n products, or is WiMax really a dead end? ~Seth
Re: Future of WiMax
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 12:35:16 -0700 From: Seth Mattinen se...@rollernet.us WiMax sounds promising, but I certainly don't hear a lot about it other than Sprint/Clear. Is it just that everyone that's doing wireless is sticking with relatively inexpensive 802.11 a/b/g/n products, or is WiMax really a dead end? Sprint/Clear certainly thinks it has promise. They just put up a wireless tower just next door to my house in San Jose... (Well, Clear actually received permission from the city zoning dept...) Regards, Gregory Hicks ~Seth - Gregory Hicks | Principal Systems Engineer | Direct: 408.569.7928 People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf -- George Orwell The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. -- Thomas Jefferson The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed. --Alexander Hamilton
Re: Future of WiMax
The future of WiMAX seems a lot less promising now that FD-LTE is the clear winner for wide-scale mobile deployment, and TD-LTE, 802.11n and proprietary technologies will compete for non-paired spectrum and/or niche markets. But one can build a network with WiMAX and make money out of it; global market forces have established the big picture, not what would happen on a specific scenario. Rubens On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Seth Mattinen se...@rollernet.us wrote: A while back I remember reading a comment here that WiMax is not a future proof technology and that several manufacturers have dropped it or something to that effect. I think it was in the starting a WiMax ISP thread. This has stuck in my head, and I was curious if there was any truth to this. WiMax sounds promising, but I certainly don't hear a lot about it other than Sprint/Clear. Is it just that everyone that's doing wireless is sticking with relatively inexpensive 802.11 a/b/g/n products, or is WiMax really a dead end? ~Seth
RE: Future of WiMax
Dude, LTE and WiMax a more siblings, than distinct rivalries. The technologies will grow together over time, versus, one taking the ascendancy, and the other, descent. WiMAX is here today, and long term evolution, well, let's see how the futures play out. ~Jay Murphy IP Network Specialist NM State Government IT Services Division PSB – IP Network Management Center Santa Fé, New México 87505 We move the information that moves your world. “Good engineering demands that we understand what we’re doing and why, keep an open mind, and learn from experience.” “Engineering is about finding the sweet spot between what's solvable and what isn't. Radia Perlman Please consider the environment before printing e-mail -Original Message- From: Rubens Kuhl [mailto:rube...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 1:48 PM To: Seth Mattinen Cc: nanOG list Subject: Re: Future of WiMax The future of WiMAX seems a lot less promising now that FD-LTE is the clear winner for wide-scale mobile deployment, and TD-LTE, 802.11n and proprietary technologies will compete for non-paired spectrum and/or niche markets. But one can build a network with WiMAX and make money out of it; global market forces have established the big picture, not what would happen on a specific scenario. Rubens On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Seth Mattinen se...@rollernet.us wrote: A while back I remember reading a comment here that WiMax is not a future proof technology and that several manufacturers have dropped it or something to that effect. I think it was in the starting a WiMax ISP thread. This has stuck in my head, and I was curious if there was any truth to this. WiMax sounds promising, but I certainly don't hear a lot about it other than Sprint/Clear. Is it just that everyone that's doing wireless is sticking with relatively inexpensive 802.11 a/b/g/n products, or is WiMax really a dead end? ~Seth Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including all attachments is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited unless specifically provided under the New Mexico Inspection of Public Records Act. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of this message. -- This email has been scanned by the Sybari - Antigen Email System.
Re: Future of WiMax
they've already claimed they'll probably switch to LTE. They said it was just a software change to do that. Of course the standard for actually placing a phone call on it (LTE) has yet to finalized. On 6/16/2010 3:40 PM, Gregory Hicks wrote: Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 12:35:16 -0700 From: Seth Mattinense...@rollernet.us WiMax sounds promising, but I certainly don't hear a lot about it other than Sprint/Clear. Is it just that everyone that's doing wireless is sticking with relatively inexpensive 802.11 a/b/g/n products, or is WiMax really a dead end? Sprint/Clear certainly thinks it has promise. They just put up a wireless tower just next door to my house in San Jose... (Well, Clear actually received permission from the city zoning dept...) Regards, Gregory Hicks ~Seth - Gregory Hicks | Principal Systems Engineer | Direct: 408.569.7928 People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf -- George Orwell The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. -- Thomas Jefferson The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed. --Alexander Hamilton
