Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Joel Jaeggli]

fwiw we have v6 transit from internap in metro atlanta. setup was
drama-free. up until about 6 months ago it was offered on a
non-production basis and only as a tunnel, now it's dual stacked to our
customer edge.

joel

On 2/4/11 7:05 AM, Scott Helms wrote:
> We have been working diligently for more than 6 months to try and get a
> /56 routed to one of our offices in metro Atlanta.  The carrier in
> question is a Tier 1 as well as being one of the old telecom names.  I
> have the entire chain of emails documenting the carrier's struggles with
> internal process and technical issues.  We are currently waiting for a
> new edge router to be ready to transfer our existing circuits to.  Not
> that it matters but we were also told that we would be moved from a
> Cisco to a Juniper.  Once I realized how much of a struggle that was
> turning into I contacted some of our other providers (a mix of Tier 1 &
> 2 ISPs and collocation providers) as of this moment none of them (though
> some seem close) are actually prepared to deliver IPv6 connectivity
> where we need it despite some of them already touting preparedness.
> 
> What I think is worth remembering is that there are a _lot_ of moving
> parts to get right to actually route an IPv6 block down a connection. 
> Some of those parts are technical like making sure an edge router that
> may have been in place for years can handle IPv6 traffic _and_ that
> addition won't cause a CPU or other issue on the specific platform
> you're looking at.  Some of the others are simply business process
> pieces like making sure contracts, internal and external documentation,
> and work flow that need to be updated.
> 
> TLDR version, marketing often fails to reflect reality :)
> 
> On 2/3/2011 10:04 PM, Franck Martin wrote:
>> The biggest complaint that I hear from ISPs, is that their upstream
>> ISP does not support IPv6 or will not provide them with a native IPv6
>> circuit.
>>
>> Is that bull?
>>
>> I thought the whole backbone is IPv6 now, and it is only the
>> residential ISPs that are still figuring it out because CPE are still
>> not there yet.
>>
>> Where can I get more information? Any list of peering ISPs that have
>> IPv6 as part of their products?
>>
>> It seems to me the typical answer sales people say when asked about
>> IPv6: "Gosh, this is the first time I'm asked this one".
>>
> 
> 

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Matthew Petach]

On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Owen DeLong  wrote:
> I'll start..
>
> Hurricane Electric      Happily and readily provided me IPv6 Transit on 
> request.
> Layer42                         Happily and readily provided me IPv6 Transit 
> on request.
>
> Owen

I'll second that--I've had native v6 connectivity with Layer42 at home, with a
secondary path via HE tunnelbroker via a secondary physical path for many,
many moons, and have had no complaints.
For those with smaller-sized connectivity needs, it's likely you'll have better
success getting v6 connectivity from a tier-2 provider, as there's less non-v6-
compliant hardware and software that needs to be taken into consideration.
There's also likely to be some level of impedance mismatch between the
upgrade priority for high-bandwidth-customer gear and low-bandwidth-customer
gear at large-sized ISPs, which may relegate you to a slower deployment
scheduled than if you bring the question up with your local tier 2 provider.

Matt

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Matthew Petach]

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Peter Lothberg  wrote:
...
> (My mother has had IPv6 since 2007, and she lives in the boonies!)

Just now catching up...and don't take this wrong way, Peter, but your
mother has more bandwidth and better connectivity than many
countries (and some continents!) do.  :-P

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/webguide/internetlife/2007-07-19-swedish-woman-fast-internet_N.htm

*had to fight back the urge to turn it into a 'yo mamma' joke...*  ^_^;

Matt

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[david raistrick]

On Fri, 4 Feb 2011, david raistrick wrote:


Amazon AWS - "No."   But I'm asking again, that's a few months old.


To follow up on this:

"We are investigating IP v6 but, unfortunately, have no plans that are 
available for sharing at present"





--
david raistrickhttp://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
dr...@icantclick.org http://www.expita.com/nomime.html

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Owen DeLong]

On Feb 10, 2011, at 4:50 AM, TR Shaw wrote:

> 
> On Feb 10, 2011, at 1:26 AM, Owen DeLong wrote:
> 
>> The problem is conversations like this:
>> 
>> AT&T Customer Service: "AT&T uVerse, how can I help you?"
>> 
>> Customer: "Yes, I have uVerse service and I'd like to get IPv6."
>> 
>> AT&T Customer Service: "I pea vee what? Is this a prank call?"
>> 
>> Owen
>> 
> 
> The ATT cellular folks respond...
> 
> ATT:  "ATT Wireless. My name is  and I'm here to help"
> 
> User: "My iPhone web browser can't reach sites like ipv6.google.com via your 
> cellular network but it can over my wifi at home."
> 
> ATT: "So you are having problems with your uVerse wireless connection?"
> 
> ... after escalating to L2 support
> 
> ATT: "So we will start be reseting your iPhone and then configure it for data 
> access"
> 
> ...after 45 minutes...
> 
> ATT: "Are you sure the website is valid? Let me check that website on my 
> desktop here."... "Well, thats the problem! http://ipv6.google.com/ doesn't 
> exist. I can't get to it via my desktop here at support.  You need to use www 
> instead of ipv6 and everything will be fine.  Is there anything else I can 
> help you with today?"
> 
> 
> 
Seems equally problematic, no?

Owen

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Joel Jaeggli]

On 2/10/11 7:42 AM, TR Shaw wrote:
> On Feb 10, 2011, at 10:28 AM, Cameron Byrne wrote:
> 
>> T-mobile USA has a nationwide ipv6 beta. You can google it.
>> Regarding iphone, its more an iPhone issue than anything else
>> 
> Nope its ATT. My iPhone works fine on IPv6. I connect wifi at home
> and can go anywhere but on on ATT wireless.

Your iphone supports v6 in the operating system that runs the user
facing side of it. It's baseband radio controller (with a seperate
processor and operating system) does not support v6 and thus the
cellular side of the device cannot.

> Tom
> 
> 

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[TR Shaw]

On Feb 10, 2011, at 10:28 AM, Cameron Byrne wrote:

> T-mobile USA has a nationwide ipv6 beta. You can google it. Regarding iphone, 
> its more an iPhone issue than anything else
> 
Nope its ATT. My iPhone works fine on IPv6. I connect wifi at home and can go 
anywhere but on on ATT wireless.

Tom

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[TR Shaw]

On Feb 10, 2011, at 1:26 AM, Owen DeLong wrote:

> The problem is conversations like this:
> 
> AT&T Customer Service: "AT&T uVerse, how can I help you?"
> 
> Customer: "Yes, I have uVerse service and I'd like to get IPv6."
> 
> AT&T Customer Service: "I pea vee what? Is this a prank call?"
> 
> Owen
> 

The ATT cellular folks respond...

ATT:  "ATT Wireless. My name is  and I'm here to help"

User: "My iPhone web browser can't reach sites like ipv6.google.com via your 
cellular network but it can over my wifi at home."

ATT: "So you are having problems with your uVerse wireless connection?"

... after escalating to L2 support

ATT: "So we will start be reseting your iPhone and then configure it for data 
access"

...after 45 minutes...

ATT: "Are you sure the website is valid? Let me check that website on my 
desktop here."... "Well, thats the problem! http://ipv6.google.com/ doesn't 
exist. I can't get to it via my desktop here at support.  You need to use www 
instead of ipv6 and everything will be fine.  Is there anything else I can help 
you with today?"

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[TR Shaw]

On Feb 10, 2011, at 1:10 AM, Frank Bulk wrote:

> I'm not sure what you mean -- once the ISP identifies CPE that works on
> their network, couldn't early adopters who are interested in the technology
> be pointed to a short list?
> 
> Frank
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Cutler James R [mailto:james.cut...@consultant.com] 
> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 5:00 PM
> To: NANOG list
> Subject: Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
> 
> All this talk about CPE is wasted until folks like ATT have someone on the
> retail interface (store, phone, or, web) who even knows what is this "IPv6"
> thing.  Exploring this issue with DSL providers and Uverse is like that old
> exercise with combat boots. It feels much better when I stop.


Would if att (and others) would support IPv6 (via dedicated, residential or 
even cellular).  Where I am, all contact people I have spoken to don't have a 
clue. The best I got was "call back late summer and we'll know something) Their 
residential and cellular folks couldn't even spell IPv6.

Tom

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Owen DeLong]

The problem is conversations like this:

AT&T Customer Service: "AT&T uVerse, how can I help you?"

Customer: "Yes, I have uVerse service and I'd like to get IPv6."

AT&T Customer Service: "I pea vee what? Is this a prank call?"

Owen

On Feb 9, 2011, at 10:10 PM, Frank Bulk wrote:

> I'm not sure what you mean -- once the ISP identifies CPE that works on
> their network, couldn't early adopters who are interested in the technology
> be pointed to a short list?
> 
> Frank
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Cutler James R [mailto:james.cut...@consultant.com] 
> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 5:00 PM
> To: NANOG list
> Subject: Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
> 
> All this talk about CPE is wasted until folks like ATT have someone on the
> retail interface (store, phone, or, web) who even knows what is this "IPv6"
> thing.  Exploring this issue with DSL providers and Uverse is like that old
> exercise with combat boots. It feels much better when I stop.
> 
> James R. Cutler
> james.cut...@consultant.com
> 
> My ISP can't answer the question.
> 
> 

RE: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Frank Bulk]

I'm not sure what you mean -- once the ISP identifies CPE that works on
their network, couldn't early adopters who are interested in the technology
be pointed to a short list?

Frank

-Original Message-
From: Cutler James R [mailto:james.cut...@consultant.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 5:00 PM
To: NANOG list
Subject: Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

All this talk about CPE is wasted until folks like ATT have someone on the
retail interface (store, phone, or, web) who even knows what is this "IPv6"
thing.  Exploring this issue with DSL providers and Uverse is like that old
exercise with combat boots. It feels much better when I stop.

James R. Cutler
james.cut...@consultant.com

My ISP can't answer the question.

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Cutler James R]

All this talk about CPE is wasted until folks like ATT have someone on the 
retail interface (store, phone, or, web) who even knows what is this "IPv6" 
thing.  Exploring this issue with DSL providers and Uverse is like that old 
exercise with combat boots. It feels much better when I stop.

James R. Cutler
james.cut...@consultant.com

My ISP can't answer the question.

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Blake Hudson]

 Original Message  
Subject: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6
From: Franck Martin 
To: nanog@nanog.org
Date: Thursday, February 03, 2011 9:04:14 PM
> The biggest complaint that I hear from ISPs, is that their upstream ISP does 
> not support IPv6 or will not provide them with a native IPv6 circuit. 
>
> Is that bull? 
>
> I thought the whole backbone is IPv6 now, and it is only the residential ISPs 
> that are still figuring it out because CPE are still not there yet. 
>
> Where can I get more information? Any list of peering ISPs that have IPv6 as 
> part of their products? 
>
> It seems to me the typical answer sales people say when asked about IPv6: 
> "Gosh, this is the first time I'm asked this one". 

We've been checking with our two regional upstreams and the answer seems
to vary between 'not yet...', 'testing...', 'we're planning...' etc.
I've been checking with my technical contacts, vs sales people. Perhaps
if there was a drive from the sales perspective I could get more
traction - money talks.

In the mean time, we've setup a tunnel with HE. At least our network
will be tested and ready to go whenever native transit is available.

--Blake

RE: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Frank Bulk]

Here's a chart:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_IPv6_support_by_major_transit_providers

Frank

-Original Message-
From: Seth Mattinen [mailto:se...@rollernet.us] 
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 12:16 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

On 2/4/2011 06:13, Jack Bates wrote:
> 
> I waited years and finally turned up a transit to L3 for additional
> bandwidth (had to wait for GE support from the other 2, of which 1 still
> can't give me a GE) and luckily native v6. Within 30 days I should have
> a cogent 10G, and I hear I'll get v6 there as well.
> 

Does anyone know how partitioned Cogent is these days?

~Seth

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Jack Bates]

On 2/4/2011 7:17 PM, Anthony Pardini wrote:

how do the routes they offer compare?


Speaking generically, everyone's routes suck. It's also not a fully fair 
comparison of reachability. You can see my network from HE and Level3, 
but if see me through Level3 without the use of a tunnel, it is probably 
the better path (which is why I prepend out the tunnel to HE). On the 
other hand, there are cases where HE is better connectivity, even with 
the horrid tunnel.



Jack

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Anthony Pardini]

how do the routes they offer compare?
On Feb 4, 2011 2:38 PM, "chip"  wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Ryan Wilkins  wrote:
 IPv6 from both of my upstream providers has been "coming soon" for
about a year and a half.
>>
>> I'm getting ready to try to enable IPv6 natively with Above.net in the
Chicago area.  Has anyone had any experience with them?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ryan Wilkins
>>
>
> Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents
>
> We're pretty much done with going dual-stack on circuits from Tiscali,
> GBLX, Cogent, NTT/Verio, XO, and Telia.
>
> --
> Just my $.02, your mileage may vary,  batteries not included, etc
>

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Owen DeLong]

I'll start..

Hurricane Electric  Happily and readily provided me IPv6 Transit on request.
Layer42 Happily and readily provided me IPv6 Transit on 
request.

Owen

Disclaimer: While I work at HE, I'm speaking for my house, AS1734 in this case.

On Feb 4, 2011, at 10:15 AM, david raistrick wrote:

> On Thu, 3 Feb 2011, Randy Carpenter wrote:
> 
>> IPv6 from both of my upstream providers has been "coming soon" for about a 
>> year and a half.
> 
> Can we start naming names and locations for both sides of the answer?  My 
> last v6 queries are a few years out of date, so no point in sharing them.
> 
> Well, I take that back.
> 
> Amazon AWS - "No."   But I'm asking again, that's a few months old.
> 
> 
> --
> david raistrickhttp://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
> dr...@icantclick.org http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
> 

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[chip]

On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Jared Mauch  wrote:
>
> On Feb 4, 2011, at 4:29 PM, Randy Carpenter wrote:
>
>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Ryan Wilkins 
>>> wrote:
>> IPv6 from both of my upstream providers has been "coming soon" for
>> about a year and a half.

 I'm getting ready to try to enable IPv6 natively with Above.net in
 the Chicago area. Has anyone had any experience with them?

 Thanks,
 Ryan Wilkins

>>>
>>> Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents
>>>
>>> We're pretty much done with going dual-stack on circuits from Tiscali,
>>> GBLX, Cogent, NTT/Verio, XO, and Telia.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Just my $.02, your mileage may vary, batteries not included, etc
>>
>> Done as in it is complete and working? Or done as in you gave up trying?
>
> Speaking as the NTT (2914) people, i'm sure it's working.  If it's not, they 
> should phone support.  IPv6 is a production service with production support.
>
> It would also break a fair amount of internal stuff if our IPv6 was not 
> working properly.
>
> - Jared


Done as in having circuits in multiple pops in production.  Several
more providers should be coming online in Q1/Q2.

--chip

-- 
Just my $.02, your mileage may vary,  batteries not included, etc

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Jared Mauch]

On Feb 4, 2011, at 4:29 PM, Randy Carpenter wrote:

> 
>> On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Ryan Wilkins 
>> wrote:
> IPv6 from both of my upstream providers has been "coming soon" for
> about a year and a half.
>>> 
>>> I'm getting ready to try to enable IPv6 natively with Above.net in
>>> the Chicago area. Has anyone had any experience with them?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ryan Wilkins
>>> 
>> 
>> Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents
>> 
>> We're pretty much done with going dual-stack on circuits from Tiscali,
>> GBLX, Cogent, NTT/Verio, XO, and Telia.
>> 
>> --
>> Just my $.02, your mileage may vary, batteries not included, etc
> 
> Done as in it is complete and working? Or done as in you gave up trying?

Speaking as the NTT (2914) people, i'm sure it's working.  If it's not, they 
should phone support.  IPv6 is a production service with production support.

It would also break a fair amount of internal stuff if our IPv6 was not working 
properly.

- Jared

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Randy Carpenter]

> On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Ryan Wilkins 
> wrote:
> >>> IPv6 from both of my upstream providers has been "coming soon" for
> >>> about a year and a half.
> >
> > I'm getting ready to try to enable IPv6 natively with Above.net in
> > the Chicago area. Has anyone had any experience with them?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ryan Wilkins
> >
> 
> Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents
> 
> We're pretty much done with going dual-stack on circuits from Tiscali,
> GBLX, Cogent, NTT/Verio, XO, and Telia.
> 
> --
> Just my $.02, your mileage may vary, batteries not included, etc

Done as in it is complete and working? Or done as in you gave up trying?

-Randy

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[chip]

On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Ryan Wilkins  wrote:
>>> IPv6 from both of my upstream providers has been "coming soon" for about a 
>>> year and a half.
>
> I'm getting ready to try to enable IPv6 natively with Above.net in the 
> Chicago area.  Has anyone had any experience with them?
>
> Thanks,
> Ryan Wilkins
>

Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents

We're pretty much done with going dual-stack on circuits from Tiscali,
GBLX, Cogent, NTT/Verio, XO, and Telia.

-- 
Just my $.02, your mileage may vary,  batteries not included, etc

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Ryan Wilkins]

>> IPv6 from both of my upstream providers has been "coming soon" for about a 
>> year and a half.

I'm getting ready to try to enable IPv6 natively with Above.net in the Chicago 
area.  Has anyone had any experience with them?

Thanks,
Ryan Wilkins

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Seth Mattinen]

On 2/4/2011 07:05, Scott Helms wrote:
> 
> TLDR version, marketing often fails to reflect reality :)
> 


My experience with trying to get a circuit turned up with Verizon boiled
down to two things:

1) Failure to meet the standards of my existing IPv6 connections in
carrying PI /48 (apparently now changed).
2) Failure to home the circuit on a router that supported IPv6. Month
after month they would keep placing it to an IPv4-only router and I
would refuse to accept it until it was moved to an IPv6 capable router.
It never happened.

They said they could do it, but couldn't figure out how.

~Seth

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[david raistrick]

On Thu, 3 Feb 2011, Randy Carpenter wrote:

IPv6 from both of my upstream providers has been "coming soon" for about 
a year and a half.


Can we start naming names and locations for both sides of the answer?  My 
last v6 queries are a few years out of date, so no point in sharing them.


Well, I take that back.

Amazon AWS - "No."   But I'm asking again, that's a few months old.


--
david raistrickhttp://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
dr...@icantclick.org http://www.expita.com/nomime.html

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Seth Mattinen]

On 2/4/2011 06:13, Jack Bates wrote:
> 
> I waited years and finally turned up a transit to L3 for additional
> bandwidth (had to wait for GE support from the other 2, of which 1 still
> can't give me a GE) and luckily native v6. Within 30 days I should have
> a cogent 10G, and I hear I'll get v6 there as well.
> 

Does anyone know how partitioned Cogent is these days?

~Seth

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Scott Helms]

We have been working diligently for more than 6 months to try and get a 
/56 routed to one of our offices in metro Atlanta.  The carrier in 
question is a Tier 1 as well as being one of the old telecom names.  I 
have the entire chain of emails documenting the carrier's struggles with 
internal process and technical issues.  We are currently waiting for a 
new edge router to be ready to transfer our existing circuits to.  Not 
that it matters but we were also told that we would be moved from a 
Cisco to a Juniper.  Once I realized how much of a struggle that was 
turning into I contacted some of our other providers (a mix of Tier 1 & 
2 ISPs and collocation providers) as of this moment none of them (though 
some seem close) are actually prepared to deliver IPv6 connectivity 
where we need it despite some of them already touting preparedness.


What I think is worth remembering is that there are a _lot_ of moving 
parts to get right to actually route an IPv6 block down a connection.  
Some of those parts are technical like making sure an edge router that 
may have been in place for years can handle IPv6 traffic _and_ that 
addition won't cause a CPU or other issue on the specific platform 
you're looking at.  Some of the others are simply business process 
pieces like making sure contracts, internal and external documentation, 
and work flow that need to be updated.


TLDR version, marketing often fails to reflect reality :)

On 2/3/2011 10:04 PM, Franck Martin wrote:

The biggest complaint that I hear from ISPs, is that their upstream ISP does 
not support IPv6 or will not provide them with a native IPv6 circuit.

Is that bull?

I thought the whole backbone is IPv6 now, and it is only the residential ISPs 
that are still figuring it out because CPE are still not there yet.

Where can I get more information? Any list of peering ISPs that have IPv6 as 
part of their products?

It seems to me the typical answer sales people say when asked about IPv6: "Gosh, 
this is the first time I'm asked this one".




--
Scott Helms
Vice President of Technology
ISP Alliance, Inc. DBA ZCorum
(678) 507-5000

http://twitter.com/kscotthelms

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Jack Bates]

On 2/3/2011 9:54 PM, Randy Carpenter wrote:

The major national provider is supposed to be swapping out equipment
any day now in order to support IPv6. The regional is claiming that
their upstreams do not have IPv6 support yet. Their upstream
providers certainly do have IPv6, but I do not know if they are not
offering it to their downstream ISP customers.

I don't know, but as a company that manages the internet operations
for numerous ISPs, and needs to have full monitoring capability for
said customers, it is frustrating not to have native IPv6.



I waited years and finally turned up a transit to L3 for additional 
bandwidth (had to wait for GE support from the other 2, of which 1 still 
can't give me a GE) and luckily native v6. Within 30 days I should have 
a cogent 10G, and I hear I'll get v6 there as well.


I'm still waiting for v6 on the original 2, but I can live with what I have.


Jack

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Vesna Manojlovic]

Hi Franck,

On 2/4/11 4:04 AM, Franck Martin wrote:

The biggest complaint that I hear from ISPs, is that their upstream
ISP does not support IPv6 or will not provide them with a native IPv6
circuit.

Is that bull?

I thought the whole backbone is IPv6 now, and it is only the
residential ISPs that are still figuring it out because CPE are still
not there yet.

Where can I get more information? 
Any list of peering ISPs that have IPv6 as part of their products?


There is a list of LIRs (ISPs) in RIPE NCC service region that have some 
aspects of IPv6 sorted out:

- got address space
- registered route6 in Routing Registry
- got reverse DNS delegation
- and are visible in ris.ripe.net

If they have all "4 stars", they are listed here (per country)
http://ipv6ripeness.ripe.net

That still does not mean that they are offering IPv6 to their customers, 
but it is a good indication.


I hope this helps,
Vesna

(IPv6 Ripeness goddess ;-)

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Peter Lothberg]

> So it was far from simply adding v6 to our existing circuit(s) and another 
> BGP session.  It has taken months.

You don't need a new BGP session to turn on IPv6, you just need to
enable IPv6 NLRI on your V4 session.. 

So, in theory your upstream can enable IPv6 on their side and then
wait until you are ready.. It helps to have a IPv6 address on the
link, but it does not need to carry the the BGP session over IPv6..

This is a feature that also simplifies your IBGP.. 

-P

(My mother has had IPv6 since 2007, and she lives in the boonies!)

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Randy Carpenter]

IPv6 from both of my upstream providers has been "coming soon" for about a year 
and a half.

One is a very major national provider, one is a regional which is connected to 
numerous national carriers.

The major national provider is supposed to be swapping out equipment any day 
now in order to support IPv6. The regional is claiming that their upstreams do 
not have IPv6 support yet. Their upstream providers certainly do have IPv6, but 
I do not know if they are not offering it to their downstream ISP customers.

I don't know, but as a company that manages the internet operations for 
numerous ISPs, and needs to have full monitoring capability for said customers, 
it is frustrating not to have native IPv6.

-Randy

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Brandon Applegate]

On Fri, 4 Feb 2011, Franck Martin wrote:


The biggest complaint that I hear from ISPs, is that their upstream ISP does 
not support IPv6 or will not provide them with a native IPv6 circuit.

Is that bull?

I thought the whole backbone is IPv6 now, and it is only the residential ISPs 
that are still figuring it out because CPE are still not there yet.

Where can I get more information? Any list of peering ISPs that have IPv6 as 
part of their products?

It seems to me the typical answer sales people say when asked about IPv6: "Gosh, 
this is the first time I'm asked this one".



I can provide anecdotal feedback on this.  When we did v6 on our network - 
we did it to full v4 parity.  I.e. if we offer v4 / HSRP redundancy / BGP 
full table, etc in a given site, we need to be able to do the same with 
v6.  We acheived that.  At this point I had a decent v6 network, but was 
isolated from the world.  I had to talk to upstreams.


In a nutshell, it was non-trivial.  The upstreams in question will remain 
nameless to protect the guilty, but they are all who some would call 'tier 
1'.  The common themes were:


-	Hmm, don't know our process for that, let me send emails and 
'reach out' and get back to you.


-	We can do it, but we have to home you to a different router.  This 
will be a provisioning exercise and you will get new /30 (/126, etc) and 
new circuit ID.


So it was far from simply adding v6 to our existing circuit(s) and another 
BGP session.  It has taken months.


I couldn't quite wait that long so I did a tunnel w/ BGP to Hurricane and 
got it up in a matter of days.  At that point, at least I could traceroute 
somewhere :)  We are just now finishing up getting native on our transit 
circuits.


--
Brandon Applegate - CCIE 10273
PGP Key fingerprint:
7407 DC86 AA7B A57F 62D1 A715 3C63 66A1 181E 6996
"SH1-0151.  This is the serial number, of our orbital gun."

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Christopher Morrow]

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Justin M. Streiner
 wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Feb 2011, Franck Martin wrote:
>
>> The biggest complaint that I hear from ISPs, is that their upstream ISP
>> does not support IPv6 or will not provide them with a native IPv6 circuit.
>
> I know of a few regional ISPs that don't (yet) support IPv6.
>
> As far as carriers go, some seem to support it readily, and others seem like
> they're being dragged into it kicking and screaming.  With the IPv4 well
> running dry in some sense, the people who aren't supporting it yet will have
> to realize sooner or later that they're swimming against the tide.

1) in which city you exist
2) in which city does IPV6 support exist for the carrier(s) you choose
to do business with
3) can you get your sales-droid to actually sleep eye-pee-vee-six and
sell it to you?

how many times, for the simple case, has someone piped up on nanog
(here) about VZB and their attempts to find someone with a clue about
getting ipv6 enabled? (I can easily count 10 in the last ~4 years) The
same goes for ATT and L3...

I believe all of these carriers (and NTT since I see Jared responding
as well) have v6 capabilities, they may hide SOME of their issues in
marketting-speak: "Oh, we have that available in 75% of our pops(*)"
(* in south-east oozbekistan) or "We offer ipv6 to the customers of
our Mananged Internet Services network(*)" (* wholesale internet is
not currently able to signup/route ipv6)

Asking straight, clear, concise questions of your sales driod, finding
his management when he's unable to answer satisfactorily, and parsing
the answers closely is your only way forward. (I think)

-Chris

>> It seems to me the typical answer sales people say when asked about IPv6:
>> "Gosh, this is the first time I'm asked this one".
>
> In some organizations, that's an organizational problem.  In others, it just
> means you got the wrong salesdroid...
>
> jms
>
>

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Paul Graydon]

On 02/03/2011 05:04 PM, Franck Martin wrote:

The biggest complaint that I hear from ISPs, is that their upstream ISP does 
not support IPv6 or will not provide them with a native IPv6 circuit.

Is that bull?

I thought the whole backbone is IPv6 now, and it is only the residential ISPs 
that are still figuring it out because CPE are still not there yet.

Where can I get more information? Any list of peering ISPs that have IPv6 as 
part of their products?

It seems to me the typical answer sales people say when asked about IPv6: "Gosh, 
this is the first time I'm asked this one".
I've just been trying to persuade our upstream provider that they can 
actually get IPv6 addresses.  They seem to be operating under the belief 
that they can only get IPv6 addresses once they're running out of IPv4 
before going through the usual justification business.  It seems bizarre 
that they've specifically gone to the extent of testing and changing 
their infrastructure to ensure it's fully IPv6 capable, yet not go all 
the way and actually get a range or poll customers to find out if 
they're interested in one.


I sent them this link : 
https://www.arin.net/resources/request/ipv6_initial_alloc.html and 
brought their attention to point 1.  Yet to hear back from them..


Paul

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Jared Mauch]

On Feb 3, 2011, at 10:04 PM, Franck Martin wrote:

> The biggest complaint that I hear from ISPs, is that their upstream ISP does 
> not support IPv6 or will not provide them with a native IPv6 circuit. 
> 
> Is that bull? 
> 
> I thought the whole backbone is IPv6 now, and it is only the residential ISPs 
> that are still figuring it out because CPE are still not there yet. 
> 
> Where can I get more information? Any list of peering ISPs that have IPv6 as 
> part of their products? 
> 
> It seems to me the typical answer sales people say when asked about IPv6: 
> "Gosh, this is the first time I'm asked this one". 

There is a wikipedia article on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_IPv6_support_by_major_transit_providers

It's not very marketing nor deep in details.  There are also a variety of other 
sites as well with various lists that are more focused on the edge networks 
such as:

http://www.sixxs.net/faq/connectivity/?faq=native

I'm not aware of a fully comprehensive list, but it may be worthwhile to ask 
over on the ipv6-ops list with further details about where you are located or 
looking at desiring service:

http://lists.cluenet.de/mailman/listinfo/ipv6-ops

There's good discussion over there, and a great resource if you are looking for 
details on enabling IPv6.

- Jared

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Justin M. Streiner]

On Fri, 4 Feb 2011, Franck Martin wrote:

The biggest complaint that I hear from ISPs, is that their upstream ISP 
does not support IPv6 or will not provide them with a native IPv6 
circuit.


I know of a few regional ISPs that don't (yet) support IPv6.

As far as carriers go, some seem to support it readily, and others seem 
like they're being dragged into it kicking and screaming.  With the IPv4 
well running dry in some sense, the people who aren't supporting it yet 
will have to realize sooner or later that they're swimming against the 
tide.


It seems to me the typical answer sales people say when asked about 
IPv6: "Gosh, this is the first time I'm asked this one".


In some organizations, that's an organizational problem.  In others, it 
just means you got the wrong salesdroid...


jms

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Richard Barnes]

This seems ironic, given the number of ISPs I've heard say "There's no
customer demand."
--Richard


On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:04 PM, Franck Martin  wrote:
> The biggest complaint that I hear from ISPs, is that their upstream ISP does 
> not support IPv6 or will not provide them with a native IPv6 circuit.
>
> Is that bull?
>
> I thought the whole backbone is IPv6 now, and it is only the residential ISPs 
> that are still figuring it out because CPE are still not there yet.
>
> Where can I get more information? Any list of peering ISPs that have IPv6 as 
> part of their products?
>
> It seems to me the typical answer sales people say when asked about IPv6: 
> "Gosh, this is the first time I'm asked this one".
>

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

[Dobbins, Roland]

On Feb 4, 2011, at 10:04 AM, Franck Martin wrote:

> Where can I get more information?


There's some survey data related to this topic presented in the latest 
Worldwide Infrastructure Security Report, available at 
.

---
Roland Dobbins  // 

The basis of optimism is sheer terror.

  -- Oscar Wilde