Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

[John Curran]

On Aug 4, 2012, at 1:29 PM, Nick Hilliard  wrote:

> On 04/08/2012 16:55, Justin M. Streiner wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Aug 2012, Jimmy Hess wrote:
 "it is the "consistent and unequivocal policy of the United States to
 promote a global Internet free from government control."
>>> 
>>> Now if they would only practice what they preach.
>> 
>> It will be interesting to see how that statement gets (ab)used the next
>> time net neutrality, or legislation like SOPA/PIPA becomes a hot topic.
> 
> I suspect they meant "a global Internet free from _other_ government control".

Actually, it is very likely that they truly mean "free of any government 
control", with the confusion coming from the idea that enforcing existing 
laws over the Internet (like copyright protection) isn't controlling the
Internet but just routine law enforcement.

Obviously, it is equally possible to view enforcing copyright protection as 
a form of Internet control and/or form of Internet censorship, so stating 
that governments shouldn't be controlling or censoring the Internet and then 
taking down hundreds of domain names is certainly going to cause confusion,
if even the USG offers it as a perfectly logical and self-consistent position.

FYI,
/John

Disclaimer: My views alone.  Your mileage may vary.

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

[shawn wilson]

On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Nick Hilliard  wrote:
> On 04/08/2012 16:55, Justin M. Streiner wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Aug 2012, Jimmy Hess wrote:
 "it is the "consistent and unequivocal policy of the United States to
 promote a global Internet free from government control."
>>>
>>> Now if they would only practice what they preach.
>>
>> It will be interesting to see how that statement gets (ab)used the next
>> time net neutrality, or legislation like SOPA/PIPA becomes a hot topic.
>
> I suspect they meant "a global Internet free from _other_ government control".
>

right and i don't think any government body expects to 'practice what
they preach' (it might sound absurd, sarcastic, or ironical, but i am
truly being serious here). it's more of a 'do what i say, not what i
do' mentality.

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

[Nick Hilliard]

On 04/08/2012 16:55, Justin M. Streiner wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Aug 2012, Jimmy Hess wrote:
>>> "it is the "consistent and unequivocal policy of the United States to
>>> promote a global Internet free from government control."
>>
>> Now if they would only practice what they preach.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how that statement gets (ab)used the next
> time net neutrality, or legislation like SOPA/PIPA becomes a hot topic.

I suspect they meant "a global Internet free from _other_ government control".

Nick

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

[Justin M. Streiner]

On Sat, 4 Aug 2012, Jimmy Hess wrote:


On 8/3/12, Patrick W. Gilmore  wrote:
"it is the "consistent and unequivocal policy of the United States to
promote a global Internet free from government control."

Now if they would only practice what they preach.


It will be interesting to see how that statement gets (ab)used the next 
time net neutrality, or legislation like SOPA/PIPA becomes a hot topic.


jms

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

[Jimmy Hess]

On 8/3/12, Patrick W. Gilmore  wrote:
"it is the "consistent and unequivocal policy of the United States to
promote a global Internet free from government control."

Now if they would only practice what they preach.


> [Feels operational to me.]
>
>

--
-JH

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

[Roy]

On 8/3/2012 9:26 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:

On Fri, 03 Aug 2012 14:06:19 -0400, "Patrick W. Gilmore" said:

The vote was unanimous: 414-0

Unanimous?  I didn't think this congress could agree the earth is round 
unanimously.

And in fact, they didn't - there's 435 Representatives.


Actually 430.  There were 16 "Not Voting".  Five seats must be empty.

Republican229  10
Democratic185  6
TOTALS414  16

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

[valdis . kletnieks]

On Fri, 03 Aug 2012 14:06:19 -0400, "Patrick W. Gilmore" said:
> The vote was unanimous: 414-0
>
> Unanimous?  I didn't think this congress could agree the earth is round 
> unanimously.

And in fact, they didn't - there's 435 Representatives.


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Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

[Måns Nilsson]

Subject: Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2012 at 
03:13:53AM +0400 Quoting Dmitry Burkov (db...@burkov.aha.ru):
> in my stupid opinion it is the problem of a new global still developing 
> global market - key dominated players are from  our countries - which see on 
> them as on strategical national strategic assets. Should I explain more?
> Or it is already clear?
> 
> I classified censorship and IPR protection in the same manner or I mistaken?

The problem with the ITU idea (apart from being to a certain extent a
me-too scheme) is that it is playing in the hands of nation-states that
wish to regulate flows of revenue and information in a manner that is
detrimental to operational practices for running networks efficiently
(on-topic) and business models for operators (somewhat on-topic)  --
and then we haven't even gotten started on the phenomenal possibilities
of instigating government-run monopolies and information chokepoints by
implementing network infrastructure and adressing plans as if IP was
E.164 and there only was one ISP per country. (slightly off-topic)

Support for these ideas can -- IMNSHO -- only come from those who
have something to lose when there is free flow of information and free
establisment of business relations.

Far from wanting to taint the entire ITU by universal attribution I'd
suspect that this is the brain-child of a number of distinct nation-states
who have identified themselves as possibly in need of thwarted cashflow
(from gov't-supported monopolies with fantasy pricing schemes) or feel
that they need to alter the information picture for their subjects.

Either that or the entire ITU-T still believes that SS7 scales better than BGP. 

-- 
Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668
SANTA CLAUS comes down a FIRE ESCAPE wearing bright blue LEG WARMERS
... He scrubs the POPE with a mild soap or detergent for 15 minutes,
starring JANE FONDA!!


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Description: Digital signature

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

[Dmitry Burkov]

in my stupid opinion it is the problem of a new global still developing global 
market - key dominated players are from  our countries - which see on them as 
on strategical national strategic assets. Should I explain more?
Or it is already clear?

I classified censorship and IPR protection in the same manner or I mistaken?


On Aug 4, 2012, at 2:44 AM, Dmitry Burkov wrote:

> The real issue is not laid in their economics - but in ours - our legacy 
> players(mobile are the same)
> We simply try to hide our own problems behind their issues and use them again 
>  to protect our market interests
> - no more.
> 
> 
> On Aug 4, 2012, at 2:03 AM, John Curran wrote:
> 
>> On Aug 3, 2012, at 5:57 PM, Dmitry Burkov 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> My opinion that the real problem laid in financial issues with developing 
>>> countires 
>> 
>> Dmitry - 
>> 
>> There is a very real financial issue that developing countries face 
>> with affording the infrastructure that their citizens want to use
>> (and often used to access to VoIP and streaming media services)
>> 
>> I do think that there needs to be ample discussion of these concerns,
>> but do not assume that a regulatory regime is the only available 
>> solution the issues raised.
>> 
>> FYI,
>> /John
>> 
>> John Curran
>> President and CEO
>> ARIN
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

[John Curran]

On Aug 3, 2012, at 6:44 PM, Dmitry Burkov  wrote:

> The real issue is not laid in their economics - but in ours - our legacy 
> players(mobile are the same)
> We simply try to hide our own problems behind their issues and use them again 
>  to protect our market interests
> - no more.

Dmitry - 

We're quickly leaving the realm of network operations, but it might
be helpful if you could further explain what you mean by the above
(as it's not particularly clear what you mean by "our own problems")

/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

[Dmitry Burkov]

The real issue is not laid in their economics - but in ours - our legacy 
players(mobile are the same)
We simply try to hide our own problems behind their issues and use them again  
to protect our market interests
- no more.


On Aug 4, 2012, at 2:03 AM, John Curran wrote:

> On Aug 3, 2012, at 5:57 PM, Dmitry Burkov 
> wrote:
> 
>> My opinion that the real problem laid in financial issues with developing 
>> countires 
> 
> Dmitry - 
> 
>  There is a very real financial issue that developing countries face 
>  with affording the infrastructure that their citizens want to use
>  (and often used to access to VoIP and streaming media services)
> 
>  I do think that there needs to be ample discussion of these concerns,
>  but do not assume that a regulatory regime is the only available 
>  solution the issues raised.
> 
> FYI,
> /John
> 
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> ARIN
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

[John Curran]

On Aug 3, 2012, at 5:57 PM, Dmitry Burkov 
 wrote:

> My opinion that the real problem laid in financial issues with developing 
> countires 

Dmitry - 
 
  There is a very real financial issue that developing countries face 
  with affording the infrastructure that their citizens want to use
  (and often used to access to VoIP and streaming media services)

  I do think that there needs to be ample discussion of these concerns,
  but do not assume that a regulatory regime is the only available 
  solution the issues raised.

FYI,
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

[Dmitry Burkov]

John,
I  like your approach - simply no comments


 I think the way as your legislation guys decided to follow can be absolutely 
wrong.

My opinion that the real problem laid in financial issues with developing 
countires and US native commercial  interests that you (not you personally - of 
course) aimed to protect

All this discussion have only  financial background - no more.

Dima
PS 
You can reference not only to magazines - but more on  House of Representatives 
which expressed their opinions more openly.

On Aug 4, 2012, at 12:47 AM, John Curran wrote:

> On Aug 3, 2012, at 2:06 PM, "Patrick W. Gilmore"  wrote:
> 
>> [Feels operational to me.]
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The U.S. House of Representatives voted late Thursday to send a message to 
>> the United Nations' International Telecommunication Union that the Internet 
>> doesn't need new international regulations. The vote was unanimous: 414-0
>> 
>> Unanimous?  I didn't think this congress could agree the earth is round 
>> unanimously.
> 
> It is can be useful (particularly during an election year) to make 
> certain that there is no doubt regarding the resolve of government 
> with respect to positions being taken in international negotiations. 
> 
> In this case, I believe that the message is now quite clear...
> 
> :-)
> /John
> 
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> ARIN
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

[John Curran]

On Aug 3, 2012, at 5:09 PM, bmann...@vacation.karoshi.com wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 08:47:30PM +, John Curran wrote:
>> In this case, I believe that the message is now quite clear...
> 
>   Its just the house :) But I suspect Terry & delegation will take 
> note.

Actually, I believe that the message originated with the Administration
(i.e.  NTIA, State ala Ambr Verveer and Ambr Kramer, and WH/OSTP) and 
we are seeing the endorsement by the House of that proposed approach.

(For specific details, I would refer to Ambr Kramers remarks from earlier
this week at the ITIC )

FYi,
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

[Gary Buhrmaster]

On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 6:06 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore  wrote:

> Unanimous?  I didn't think this congress could agree the earth is round 
> unanimously.

Perhaps because the earth is usually more properly described as an
oblate spheroid...

Gary

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

[bmanning]

On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 08:47:30PM +, John Curran wrote:
> On Aug 3, 2012, at 2:06 PM, "Patrick W. Gilmore"  wrote:
> 
> > [Feels operational to me.]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The U.S. House of Representatives voted late Thursday to send a message to 
> > the United Nations' International Telecommunication Union that the Internet 
> > doesn't need new international regulations. The vote was unanimous: 414-0
> > 
> > Unanimous?  I didn't think this congress could agree the earth is round 
> > unanimously.
> 
> It is can be useful (particularly during an election year) to make 
> certain that there is no doubt regarding the resolve of government 
> with respect to positions being taken in international negotiations. 
> 
> In this case, I believe that the message is now quite clear...
> 
> :-)
> /John
> 
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> ARIN

Its just the house :) But I suspect Terry & delegation will take 
note.

/bill

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

[Scott Weeks]

> The U.S. House of Representatives voted late Thursday to send a message to 
> the United Nations' International Telecommunication Union that the Internet 
> doesn't need new international regulations. The vote was unanimous: 414-0
> 
> Unanimous?  I didn't think this congress could agree the earth is round 
> unanimously.
--


Have you *ever* seen control frea...err...governments vote to relinquish their 
power to other governments?

;-)
scott

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

[John Curran]

On Aug 3, 2012, at 2:06 PM, "Patrick W. Gilmore"  wrote:

> [Feels operational to me.]
> 
> 
> 
> The U.S. House of Representatives voted late Thursday to send a message to 
> the United Nations' International Telecommunication Union that the Internet 
> doesn't need new international regulations. The vote was unanimous: 414-0
> 
> Unanimous?  I didn't think this congress could agree the earth is round 
> unanimously.

It is can be useful (particularly during an election year) to make 
certain that there is no doubt regarding the resolve of government 
with respect to positions being taken in international negotiations. 

In this case, I believe that the message is now quite clear...

:-)
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN