Re: cogent - Sales practices

[Saku Ytti]

On Sat, 6 Aug 2022 at 23:08, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> I have a morbid curiosity about what the CRM database looks like inside 
> Cogent, for the stale/cold leads that get passed on to a new junior sales rep 
> every six months.
>
> The amount of peoples' names/email addresses/phone numbers in there must be 
> stupendous.
>
> All of this can probably serve as a useful training tool for smaller/mid 
> sized ISPs with their own outbound sales staff on how not to treat the 
> potential customers.

What is the benchmark? What are we trying to do? Where does CCOI fail
and some competitor succeeds? Purely from tenQ POV, CCOI seems to be
doing fine and improving. Many shops that we could consider
competitors have been run to the ground or been sold off to avoid
losing more.

I fear that what they are doing objectively works from a business POV,
and nanog is not representative of the addressable market, if
anything, it may be a net-win to get rid of us, as we may be more
expensive to support than mean.

-- 
  ++ytti

Re: cogent - Sales practices

[Lou D]

Funny because I’ve been avoiding calls with my new rep for weeks and was
partially admiring the commitment to make contact with me . Hehe

On Sat, Aug 6, 2022 at 4:08 PM Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> I have a morbid curiosity about what the CRM database looks like inside
> Cogent, for the stale/cold leads that get passed on to a new junior sales
> rep every six months.
>
> The amount of peoples' names/email addresses/phone numbers in there must
> be stupendous.
>
> All of this can probably serve as a useful training tool for smaller/mid
> sized ISPs with their own outbound sales staff on how not to treat the
> potential customers.
>
>
> On Fri, 5 Aug 2022 at 13:21, Dennis Burgess 
> wrote:
>
>> So we just got an email from cogent, we have told them time and time
>> again to stop calling and stop emailing.  We tell them are good on
>> bandwidth and we don’t need any of their services.. They then sent us a
>> e-mail stating that they saw us coming though one of their customers
>> networks from us, and figured we would want to buy direct instead of going
>> though one of their customers. Yes COGENT stated this; well at least one of
>> their sales reps.  Sounds underhanded, shady, and unethical to me.Just
>> figured I would post about it; see if I am making a mountain out of a mole
>> hill 
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is the e-mail:
>>
>>
>>
>> *"Hey (redacted) ,*
>>
>> *Maybe there is a misunderstanding. (ISP’s name removed) is a cogent
>> customer who we provide upstream to.*
>>
>> *My initial inquiry was to see if it makes sense for Link Technologies to
>> be utilizing our network instead of through (ISP’s name removed). That way
>> we could be a direct network for you.*
>>
>> *Would that be at all something that interests you?*
>>
>>
>>
>> *Eric Gogerty | Global Account Manager | AS 174*
>>
>> *Cogent Communications | Minneapolis, MN (United States Of America)|
>> www.cogentco.com *
>>
>> *Contact: 612-217-5506| email: egoge...@cogentco.com
>> *
>>
>> *The Internet, Unleashed!"*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>>
>> *Dennis Burgess*
>>
>>
>> * Mikrotik : **Trainer, Network Associate, Routing Engineer, Wireless
>> Engineer, Traffic Control Engineer, Inter-Networking Engineer, Security
>> Engineer, Enterprise Wireless Engineer*
>>
>> *Hurricane Electric: **IPv6 Sage Level*
>>
>> *Cambium: **ePMP*
>>
>>
>>
>> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>>
>> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>>
>> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>>
>> Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net
>>
>> *How did we do today?*
>>
>> [image: Gold Star]
>> [image:
>> Green Light]
>> [image:
>> Yellow Light]
>> [image:
>> Red Light]
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: cogent - Sales practices

[Eric Kuhnke]

I have a morbid curiosity about what the CRM database looks like inside
Cogent, for the stale/cold leads that get passed on to a new junior sales
rep every six months.

The amount of peoples' names/email addresses/phone numbers in there must be
stupendous.

All of this can probably serve as a useful training tool for smaller/mid
sized ISPs with their own outbound sales staff on how not to treat the
potential customers.


On Fri, 5 Aug 2022 at 13:21, Dennis Burgess  wrote:

> So we just got an email from cogent, we have told them time and time again
> to stop calling and stop emailing.  We tell them are good on bandwidth and
> we don’t need any of their services.. They then sent us a e-mail stating
> that they saw us coming though one of their customers networks from us, and
> figured we would want to buy direct instead of going though one of their
> customers. Yes COGENT stated this; well at least one of their sales reps.
> Sounds underhanded, shady, and unethical to me.Just figured I would
> post about it; see if I am making a mountain out of a mole hill 
>
>
>
> Here is the e-mail:
>
>
>
> *"Hey (redacted) ,*
>
> *Maybe there is a misunderstanding. (ISP’s name removed) is a cogent
> customer who we provide upstream to.*
>
> *My initial inquiry was to see if it makes sense for Link Technologies to
> be utilizing our network instead of through (ISP’s name removed). That way
> we could be a direct network for you.*
>
> *Would that be at all something that interests you?*
>
>
>
> *Eric Gogerty | Global Account Manager | AS 174*
>
> *Cogent Communications | Minneapolis, MN (United States Of America)|
> www.cogentco.com *
>
> *Contact: 612-217-5506| email: egoge...@cogentco.com
> *
>
> *The Internet, Unleashed!"*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
> *Dennis Burgess*
>
>
> * Mikrotik : **Trainer, Network Associate, Routing Engineer, Wireless
> Engineer, Traffic Control Engineer, Inter-Networking Engineer, Security
> Engineer, Enterprise Wireless Engineer*
>
> *Hurricane Electric: **IPv6 Sage Level*
>
> *Cambium: **ePMP*
>
>
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
> Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net
>
> *How did we do today?*
>
> [image: Gold Star]
> [image:
> Green Light]
> [image:
> Yellow Light]
> [image:
> Red Light]
> 
>
>
>

Re: cogent - Sales practices

[Paul Emmons]

Two current experiences . . .
I still do work with an ILEC that gets requests for waves to Cogent. Cogent
has a data center in the market but won't allow the ILEC to build in.  So
Cogent burns ports in another data center where Cogent pays for space and
power.  Cogent reps says no one gets anything for free.

Had a recent event with Meta for the small market ixp deployment.  The use,
just use, Cogent for connectivity /fill.

And a plan . . .  Order up 10g Global peer exchange ports from them. They
are free.  Maybe if they sell enough of those they will have to spend more
of their dollars.

Re: cogent - Sales practices

[Glenn Kelley]

I think that was Dennis :)


On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 4:31 PM Dovid Bender  wrote:

> It's not just you. I saw a social media post with the exact format posted
> by someone who got a similar email.
>
> On Fri, Aug 5, 2022, 16:20 Dennis Burgess  wrote:
>
>> So we just got an email from cogent, we have told them time and time
>> again to stop calling and stop emailing.  We tell them are good on
>> bandwidth and we don’t need any of their services.. They then sent us a
>> e-mail stating that they saw us coming though one of their customers
>> networks from us, and figured we would want to buy direct instead of going
>> though one of their customers. Yes COGENT stated this; well at least one of
>> their sales reps.  Sounds underhanded, shady, and unethical to me.Just
>> figured I would post about it; see if I am making a mountain out of a mole
>> hill 
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is the e-mail:
>>
>>
>>
>> *"Hey (redacted) ,*
>>
>> *Maybe there is a misunderstanding. (ISP’s name removed) is a cogent
>> customer who we provide upstream to.*
>>
>> *My initial inquiry was to see if it makes sense for Link Technologies to
>> be utilizing our network instead of through (ISP’s name removed). That way
>> we could be a direct network for you.*
>>
>> *Would that be at all something that interests you?*
>>
>>
>>
>> *Eric Gogerty | Global Account Manager | AS 174*
>>
>> *Cogent Communications | Minneapolis, MN (United States Of America)|
>> www.cogentco.com *
>>
>> *Contact: 612-217-5506| email: egoge...@cogentco.com
>> *
>>
>> *The Internet, Unleashed!"*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>>
>> *Dennis Burgess*
>>
>>
>> * Mikrotik : **Trainer, Network Associate, Routing Engineer, Wireless
>> Engineer, Traffic Control Engineer, Inter-Networking Engineer, Security
>> Engineer, Enterprise Wireless Engineer*
>>
>> *Hurricane Electric: **IPv6 Sage Level*
>>
>> *Cambium: **ePMP*
>>
>>
>>
>> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>>
>> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>>
>> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>>
>> Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net
>>
>> *How did we do today?*
>>
>> [image: Gold Star]
>> [image:
>> Green Light]
>> [image:
>> Yellow Light]
>> [image:
>> Red Light]
>> 
>>
>>
>>
> --

*Glenn S. Kelley, *I am a Connectivity.Engineer
Text and Voice Direct:  740-206-9624


a Division of CreatingNet.Works 
IMPORTANT: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential.
They are intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you have received
this email by mistake, please notify Glenn Kelley, the sender, immediately
and do not disclose the contents to anyone or make copies thereof.

Re: cogent - Sales practices

[Glenn Kelley]

Today while negotiating with Cogent for connectivity in the WOW 226
Datacenter I sent a copy of the original email and told them I will NEVER
use Cogent for my customers due to this kind of activity.

Imagine if everyone else follows suit.

When they go low - make sure others know you are unwilling to use them.

-- When they do call my cell and I know it is them I answer with

Thank you for calling the Mental Health Hotline.If you are dislexic
please dial 696969696969  ;-)


*Glenn S. Kelley, *I am a Connectivity.Engineer
Text and Voice Direct:  740-206-9624


a Division of CreatingNet.Works 
IMPORTANT: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential.
They are intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you have received
this email by mistake, please notify Glenn Kelley, the sender, immediately
and do not disclose the contents to anyone or make copies thereof.


On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 4:25 PM Jon Sands  wrote:

> Cogent getting involved in absolutely obnoxious and shady sales tactics
> that they'll seemingly never address or do anything about? Why I never
>
> On 8/5/2022 4:20 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>
> So we just got an email from cogent, we have told them time and time again
> to stop calling and stop emailing.  We tell them are good on bandwidth and
> we don’t need any of their services.. They then sent us a e-mail stating
> that they saw us coming though one of their customers networks from us, and
> figured we would want to buy direct instead of going though one of their
> customers. Yes COGENT stated this; well at least one of their sales reps.
> Sounds underhanded, shady, and unethical to me.Just figured I would
> post about it; see if I am making a mountain out of a mole hill 
>
>
>
> Here is the e-mail:
>
>
>
> *"Hey (redacted) ,*
>
> *Maybe there is a misunderstanding. (ISP’s name removed) is a cogent
> customer who we provide upstream to.*
>
> *My initial inquiry was to see if it makes sense for Link Technologies to
> be utilizing our network instead of through (ISP’s name removed). That way
> we could be a direct network for you.*
>
> *Would that be at all something that interests you?*
>
>
>
> *Eric Gogerty | Global Account Manager | AS 174*
>
> *Cogent Communications | Minneapolis, MN (United States Of America)|
> www.cogentco.com *
>
> *Contact: 612-217-5506| email: egoge...@cogentco.com
> *
>
> *The Internet, Unleashed!"*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
> *Dennis Burgess*
>
>
> * Mikrotik : **Trainer, Network Associate, Routing Engineer, Wireless
> Engineer, Traffic Control Engineer, Inter-Networking Engineer, Security
> Engineer, Enterprise Wireless Engineer*
>
> *Hurricane Electric: **IPv6 Sage Level*
>
> *Cambium: **ePMP*
>
>
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
> Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net
>
> *How did we do today?*
>
> [image: Gold Star]
> [image:
> Green Light]
> [image:
> Yellow Light]
> [image:
> Red Light]
> 
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jon Sands
> MFI Labshttps://fohdeesha.com/
>
>

Re: cogent - Sales practices

[August Yang via NANOG]

He has to do that to show there is activity on the account otherwise another 
rep can challenge it.

Best regards
August Yang

> On Aug 5, 2022, at 4:20 PM, Dennis Burgess  wrote:
> 
> So we just got an email from cogent, we have told them time and time again to 
> stop calling and stop emailing.  We tell them are good on bandwidth and we 
> don’t need any of their services.. They then sent us a e-mail stating that 
> they saw us coming though one of their customers networks from us, and 
> figured we would want to buy direct instead of going though one of their 
> customers. Yes COGENT stated this; well at least one of their sales reps.  
> Sounds underhanded, shady, and unethical to me.Just figured I would post 
> about it; see if I am making a mountain out of a mole hill
>  
> Here is the e-mail:
>  
> "Hey (redacted) ,
> Maybe there is a misunderstanding. (ISP’s name removed) is a cogent customer 
> who we provide upstream to.
> My initial inquiry was to see if it makes sense for Link Technologies to be 
> utilizing our network instead of through (ISP’s name removed). That way we 
> could be a direct network for you.
> Would that be at all something that interests you?
>  
> Eric Gogerty | Global Account Manager | AS 174
> Cogent Communications | Minneapolis, MN (United States Of America)| 
> www.cogentco.com 
> Contact: 612-217-5506| email: egoge...@cogentco.com 
> 
> The Internet, Unleashed!"
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
> Dennis Burgess
> 
> Mikrotik : Trainer, Network Associate, Routing Engineer, Wireless Engineer, 
> Traffic Control Engineer, Inter-Networking Engineer, Security Engineer, 
> Enterprise Wireless Engineer
> Hurricane Electric: IPv6 Sage Level
> Cambium: ePMP
>  
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 
> 
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 
> 
> Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net 
> 
> How did we do today?
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: cogent - Sales practices

[Dovid Bender]

It's not just you. I saw a social media post with the exact format posted
by someone who got a similar email.

On Fri, Aug 5, 2022, 16:20 Dennis Burgess  wrote:

> So we just got an email from cogent, we have told them time and time again
> to stop calling and stop emailing.  We tell them are good on bandwidth and
> we don’t need any of their services.. They then sent us a e-mail stating
> that they saw us coming though one of their customers networks from us, and
> figured we would want to buy direct instead of going though one of their
> customers. Yes COGENT stated this; well at least one of their sales reps.
> Sounds underhanded, shady, and unethical to me.Just figured I would
> post about it; see if I am making a mountain out of a mole hill 
>
>
>
> Here is the e-mail:
>
>
>
> *"Hey (redacted) ,*
>
> *Maybe there is a misunderstanding. (ISP’s name removed) is a cogent
> customer who we provide upstream to.*
>
> *My initial inquiry was to see if it makes sense for Link Technologies to
> be utilizing our network instead of through (ISP’s name removed). That way
> we could be a direct network for you.*
>
> *Would that be at all something that interests you?*
>
>
>
> *Eric Gogerty | Global Account Manager | AS 174*
>
> *Cogent Communications | Minneapolis, MN (United States Of America)|
> www.cogentco.com *
>
> *Contact: 612-217-5506| email: egoge...@cogentco.com
> *
>
> *The Internet, Unleashed!"*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
> *Dennis Burgess*
>
>
> * Mikrotik : **Trainer, Network Associate, Routing Engineer, Wireless
> Engineer, Traffic Control Engineer, Inter-Networking Engineer, Security
> Engineer, Enterprise Wireless Engineer*
>
> *Hurricane Electric: **IPv6 Sage Level*
>
> *Cambium: **ePMP*
>
>
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
> Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net
>
> *How did we do today?*
>
> [image: Gold Star]
> [image:
> Green Light]
> [image:
> Yellow Light]
> [image:
> Red Light]
> 
>
>
>

RE: cogent - Sales practices

[Shawn L via NANOG]

I think they call me around once a week right now.  Even after I've told them 
we're not interested.  Every once in a while they switch the numbers they're 
calling from, just to keep things interesting.
 
Shawn


-Original Message-
From: "Dennis Burgess" 
Sent: Friday, August 5, 2022 4:20pm
To: "NANOG" 
Subject: cogent - Sales practices




So we just got an email from cogent, we have told them time and time again to 
stop calling and stop emailing.  We tell them are good on bandwidth and we 
don’t need any of their services.. They then sent us a e-mail stating that they 
saw us coming though one of their customers networks from us, and figured we 
would want to buy direct instead of going though one of their customers. Yes 
COGENT stated this; well at least one of their sales reps.  Sounds underhanded, 
shady, and unethical to me.Just figured I would post about it; see if I am 
making a mountain out of a mole hill 
 
Here is the e-mail:
 
"Hey (redacted) ,
Maybe there is a misunderstanding. (ISP’s name removed) is a cogent customer 
who we provide upstream to.
My initial inquiry was to see if it makes sense for Link Technologies to be 
utilizing our network instead of through (ISP’s name removed). That way we 
could be a direct network for you.
Would that be at all something that interests you?
 
Eric Gogerty | Global Account Manager | AS 174
Cogent Communications | Minneapolis, MN (United States Of America)| 
www.cogentco.com
Contact: 612-217-5506| email: egoge...@cogentco.com
The Internet, Unleashed!"
 
 
 
 

Dennis Burgess

 Mikrotik : Trainer, Network Associate, Routing Engineer, Wireless Engineer, 
Traffic Control Engineer, Inter-Networking Engineer, Security Engineer, 
Enterprise Wireless Engineer
Hurricane Electric: IPv6 Sage Level
Cambium: ePMP 
 
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: [ http://www.linktechs.net ]( 
http://www.linktechs.net/ )
Create Wireless Coverage’s with [ www.towercoverage.com ]( 
www.towercoverage.com )
Need MikroTik Cloud Management: [ https://cloud.linktechs.net ]( 
https://cloud.linktechs.net ) 
How did we do today?
[  ]( 
https://app.customerthermometer.com/?template=log_feedback=5badbac1_data=dGVtcGVyYXR1cmVfaWQ9MSZ0aGVybW9tZXRlcl9pZD0xMTM1NjYmbnBzX3JhdGluZz0tMQ===Anonymous=Dennis=Burgess===
 )[  ]( 
https://app.customerthermometer.com/?template=log_feedback=675abe04_data=dGVtcGVyYXR1cmVfaWQ9MiZ0aGVybW9tZXRlcl9pZD0xMTM1NjYmbnBzX3JhdGluZz0tMQ===Anonymous=Dennis=Burgess===
 )[  ]( 
https://app.customerthermometer.com/?template=log_feedback=e42b48a5_data=dGVtcGVyYXR1cmVfaWQ9MyZ0aGVybW9tZXRlcl9pZD0xMTM1NjYmbnBzX3JhdGluZz0tMQ===Anonymous=Dennis=Burgess===
 )[  ]( 
https://app.customerthermometer.com/?template=log_feedback=ecaadcd3_data=dGVtcGVyYXR1cmVfaWQ9NCZ0aGVybW9tZXRlcl9pZD0xMTM1NjYmbnBzX3JhdGluZz0tMQ===Anonymous=Dennis=Burgess===
 )
 

Re: cogent - Sales practices

[Jon Sands]

Cogent getting involved in absolutely obnoxious and shady sales tactics 
that they'll seemingly never address or do anything about? Why I never


On 8/5/2022 4:20 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:


So we just got an email from cogent, we have told them time and time 
again to stop calling and stop emailing.  We tell them are good on 
bandwidth and we don’t need any of their services.. They then sent us 
a e-mail stating that they saw us coming though one of their customers 
networks from us, and figured we would want to buy direct instead of 
going though one of their customers. Yes COGENT stated this; well at 
least one of their sales reps.  Sounds underhanded, shady, and 
unethical to me.    Just figured I would post about it; see if I am 
making a mountain out of a mole hill 


Here is the e-mail:

//

/"Hey (redacted) ,/

/Maybe there is a misunderstanding. (ISP’s name removed) is a cogent 
customer who we provide upstream to./


/My initial inquiry was to see if it makes sense for Link Technologies 
to be utilizing our network instead of through (ISP’s name removed). 
That way we could be a direct network for you./


/Would that be at all something that interests you?/

//

/Eric Gogerty | Global Account Manager | AS 174/

/Cogent Communications | Minneapolis, MN (United States Of America)| 
www.cogentco.com/


/Contact: 612-217-5506| email: egoge...@cogentco.com/

/The Internet, Unleashed!"/

*LTI-Full_175px*

*Dennis Burgess*

*
Mikrotik : **Trainer, Network Associate, Routing Engineer, Wireless 
Engineer, Traffic Control Engineer, Inter-Networking Engineer, 
Security Engineer, Enterprise Wireless Engineer*


*Hurricane Electric: **IPv6 Sage Level***

*Cambium: **ePMP***

**

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”

*Link Technologies, Inc*-- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services

*Office*: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net 



Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 



Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net 



*How did we do today?*

Gold Star 
Green 
Light 
Yellow 
Light 
Red 
Light 





--
Jon Sands
MFI Labs
https://fohdeesha.com/