RE: Residential CPE suggestions
Thanks to everyone who responded. The picture/spec on this page shows a single SFP, not dual. Hopefully they will come out with something that supports dual SFP. I am looking for something suitable for an active Ethernet fiber-to-X deployment. The Ubiquiti routers don't support dual SFP until you get to the PRO (too bad no Wifi, emailed them. :) Self-quoting here: CRS226-24G-2S from Mikrotik is using a new chipset, supposedly. I suspect that more vendors will be releasing configs like this if the silicon is becoming more prevalent. The thing has SFP+ ports (10G) which is cool, especially at the price point, but overkill. It has 24x gigabit ports which is definitely overkill, so ideally I can find a slimmer switch. :) List price under $300 looks like. This guy fits the bill (port config) more closely but also costs 3x more (faster cpu, more ram, etc). Neat stuff, either way. Deepak
RE: Residential CPE suggestions
On 9 May 2014 12:05, Aled Morris al...@qix.co.uk wrote: Indeed. Mikrotik are promising a CCR1009 with 2xSFP and 8xUTP GE ports (and dual PSU) for $425 but it isn't an access switch (so no Q-in-Q) though it does support MPLS/VPLS. Apologies for correcting myself, but I just checked and Q-in-Q is supported in Mikrotik RouterOS, so this might be the ideal box for you (if it were orderable.) I forgot to include the link too - http://routerboard.com/CCR1009-8G-1S Thanks to everyone who responded. The picture/spec on this page shows a single SFP, not dual. Hopefully they will come out with something that supports dual SFP. I am looking for something suitable for an active Ethernet fiber-to-X deployment. The Ubiquiti routers don't support dual SFP until you get to the PRO (too bad no Wifi, emailed them. :) Thanks, Deepak
Re: Residential CPE suggestions
On 8 May 2014 17:30, Randy Carpenter rcar...@network1.net wrote: I would love to see the EdgeRouter Lite, or something similar with 2 SFP ports and 2 1000bT ports (Which would fit with the OP's question). Q-in-Q tunneling and basic routing required, but not much else for me. Bonus points points for something like that with redundant power supplies for $1k Indeed. Mikrotik are promising a CCR1009 with 2xSFP and 8xUTP GE ports (and dual PSU) for $425 but it isn't an access switch (so no Q-in-Q) though it does support MPLS/VPLS. Aled
Re: Residential CPE suggestions
On 9 May 2014 12:05, Aled Morris al...@qix.co.uk wrote: Indeed. Mikrotik are promising a CCR1009 with 2xSFP and 8xUTP GE ports (and dual PSU) for $425 but it isn't an access switch (so no Q-in-Q) though it does support MPLS/VPLS. Apologies for correcting myself, but I just checked and Q-in-Q is supported in Mikrotik RouterOS, so this might be the ideal box for you (if it were orderable.) I forgot to include the link too - http://routerboard.com/CCR1009-8G-1S Aled
RE: Residential CPE suggestions
We’ve had two of the ER3s in production. One of which has had no problems to date, the other one had several issues just staying online. It would randomly drop out from time to time (no ICMP, didn't pass traffic; basically a flashing brick). These were both single homed stub networks on older firmware so your results may vary. In my past experience the Ubiquiti release cycle is: Announce Product -- (1 year later) -- Reannounce Product /Start Shipping -- (4 months later) -- Claim it's still on the boat and will reach distributors soon -- (2 months later) -- Begin shipping from Distribution with defunct firmware -- (8 months later and a few firmware updates) -- Release a stable firmware version TL;DR: Ubiquiti has good, inexpensive equipment but it might not always be ready for production networks or very patient customers. For what you’re looking for though no one else can match that price point. -Original Message- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Jimmy Hess Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 9:13 PM To: sur...@mauigateway.com Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: Residential CPE suggestions On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 2:31 PM, Scott Weeks sur...@mauigateway.com wrote: I wouldn't worry. A fancy GUI without intelligent engineering and design leveraged is just more rope for everyone to hang themselves with, esp. when something in the GUI inevitably doesn't work quite like it's supposed to. Network vendor GUIs never work 100% like they are supposed to; there's always eventually some bug or another, or limitation requiring some workaround. And IPv6 is a game-changer. It looks like everyone here should start looking for a new career: Next-generation user experience allows anyone to quickly become a routing expert. ;-) scott -- -JH
Re: Residential CPE suggestions
On May 8, 2014, at 12:19 PM, Nolan Rollo nro...@kw-corp.com wrote: TL;DR: Ubiquiti has good, inexpensive equipment but it might not always be ready for production networks or very patient customers. For what you’re looking for though no one else can match that price point. +1 If you have hardware in-hand and don't mind support via their 'free' forums. If you can reproduce any issues, they will promptly recreate it and fix it. You may end up waiting awhile for the software, but even $big_vendor has that issue. I'm using both the nanobridge/nanobeam hardware as well as edgerouter and unifi and they work quite well. - Jared
Re: Residential CPE suggestions
I would love to see the EdgeRouter Lite, or something similar with 2 SFP ports and 2 1000bT ports (Which would fit with the OP's question). Q-in-Q tunneling and basic routing required, but not much else for me. Bonus points points for something like that with redundant power supplies for $1k There really does not seem to be anything in that space that is viable and inexpensive. thanks, -Randy - Original Message - We’ve had two of the ER3s in production. One of which has had no problems to date, the other one had several issues just staying online. It would randomly drop out from time to time (no ICMP, didn't pass traffic; basically a flashing brick). These were both single homed stub networks on older firmware so your results may vary. In my past experience the Ubiquiti release cycle is: Announce Product -- (1 year later) -- Reannounce Product /Start Shipping -- (4 months later) -- Claim it's still on the boat and will reach distributors soon -- (2 months later) -- Begin shipping from Distribution with defunct firmware -- (8 months later and a few firmware updates) -- Release a stable firmware version TL;DR: Ubiquiti has good, inexpensive equipment but it might not always be ready for production networks or very patient customers. For what you’re looking for though no one else can match that price point. -Original Message- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Jimmy Hess Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 9:13 PM To: sur...@mauigateway.com Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: Residential CPE suggestions On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 2:31 PM, Scott Weeks sur...@mauigateway.com wrote: I wouldn't worry. A fancy GUI without intelligent engineering and design leveraged is just more rope for everyone to hang themselves with, esp. when something in the GUI inevitably doesn't work quite like it's supposed to. Network vendor GUIs never work 100% like they are supposed to; there's always eventually some bug or another, or limitation requiring some workaround. And IPv6 is a game-changer. It looks like everyone here should start looking for a new career: Next-generation user experience allows anyone to quickly become a routing expert. ;-) scott -- -JH
Re: Residential CPE suggestions
I still get email updates on the thread I created in mid 2013. In my experience their forum is a good excuse for not EVER answering the phone. And when I say ever.. I mean.. They don't even take sales calls. (the issue is still there.. By the way.) Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device Original message From: Jared Mauch ja...@puck.nether.net Date: 05/08/2014 9:28 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Nolan Rollo nro...@kw-corp.com Cc: NANOG list nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Residential CPE suggestions On May 8, 2014, at 12:19 PM, Nolan Rollo nro...@kw-corp.com wrote: TL;DR: Ubiquiti has good, inexpensive equipment but it might not always be ready for production networks or very patient customers. For what you’re looking for though no one else can match that price point. +1 If you have hardware in-hand and don't mind support via their 'free' forums. If you can reproduce any issues, they will promptly recreate it and fix it. You may end up waiting awhile for the software, but even $big_vendor has that issue. I'm using both the nanobridge/nanobeam hardware as well as edgerouter and unifi and they work quite well. - Jared
Re: Residential CPE suggestions
It uses a Cavium Octeon processor which does have dedicated HW packet proce= ssing. A moderate number of prefixes won't slow it down doing vanilla for= warding, not sure about 2 million though... I believe they have recently o= ptimized some of the FW stuff to take advantage of the HW as well. =20 Layering services like FW, NAT, and tunneling definitely drops the packet r= ate significantly, but it is still capable of 100+Mbps at IMIX packet sizes= .=20 I think there are a couple of in depth tests out there. In my experience the ERL works really well for a $99 device.=20 I sent them an inquiry and they sent a friendly but fact-free response so it is probably safe to assume that it is relatively good at basic packet forwarding but the services will kill it. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again. - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.
Re: Residential CPE suggestions
I was also going to recommend the EdgeRouter Pro as it has dual SFP ports and the Vyatta/Linux stuff works quite well. I suspect you will be very surprised with the quality experience. If you've not used Vyatta, it's very JunOS-like. - Jared On May 5, 2014, at 8:14 PM, Cryptographrix cryptograph...@gmail.com wrote: I've used both the Ubiquiti EdgeRouter and Cisco RV042G. The EdgeRouter runs a modified version of Vyatta that's incredibly versatile. The RV042G is your standard Cisco SOHO Dual-WAN router - it has telnet, but is limited, and otherwise is solid. On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Deepak Jain dee...@ai.net wrote: Any recommendation for a residential CPE that supports dual SFP uplinks (WAN) with either a routing protocol or a resilient Ethernet solution? Ideally, LAN port should be 100/1000 CAT5. I've looking at Mikrotik, Draytek and others. Looking something in a lower three-digit price point. Otherwise I might have to do a pair of media converters on a copper switch/router that can do it (ugly!). Thanks in advance! DJ
Re: Residential CPE suggestions
I was also going to recommend the EdgeRouter Pro as it has dual SFP = ports and the Vyatta/Linux stuff works quite well. I suspect you will be very surprised with the quality experience. If = you've not used Vyatta, it's very JunOS-like. Does anyone have any practical experience with the EdgeRouter with a largish number of prefixes? http://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/edgemax/EdgeRouter_DS.pdf The 2 million+ packets per second leads me to believe that this is merely a highly optimized software based router, but under Hardware Specs it specifically says hardware acceleration for packet processing. I have no idea what's being accelerated since the layer 3 forwarding performance specs for the FR-8 are 2Mpps (an 800MHz CPU) and the FRPro-8 are 2.4Mpps (1GHz) which suggests software lookup. Do these things suffer if you load them down with a full table? Or a handful of firewall rules? ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again. - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.
RE: Residential CPE suggestions
It uses a Cavium Octeon processor which does have dedicated HW packet processing. A moderate number of prefixes won't slow it down doing vanilla forwarding, not sure about 2 million though... I believe they have recently optimized some of the FW stuff to take advantage of the HW as well. Layering services like FW, NAT, and tunneling definitely drops the packet rate significantly, but it is still capable of 100+Mbps at IMIX packet sizes. I think there are a couple of in depth tests out there. In my experience the ERL works really well for a $99 device. Phil -Original Message- From: Joe Greco jgr...@ns.sol.net Sent: 5/6/2014 7:39 AM To: ja...@puck.nether.net (Jared Mauch) ja...@puck.nether.net (Jared Mauch) Cc: NANOG nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Residential CPE suggestions I was also going to recommend the EdgeRouter Pro as it has dual SFP = ports and the Vyatta/Linux stuff works quite well. I suspect you will be very surprised with the quality experience. If = you've not used Vyatta, it's very JunOS-like. Does anyone have any practical experience with the EdgeRouter with a largish number of prefixes? http://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/edgemax/EdgeRouter_DS.pdf The 2 million+ packets per second leads me to believe that this is merely a highly optimized software based router, but under Hardware Specs it specifically says hardware acceleration for packet processing. I have no idea what's being accelerated since the layer 3 forwarding performance specs for the FR-8 are 2Mpps (an 800MHz CPU) and the FRPro-8 are 2.4Mpps (1GHz) which suggests software lookup. Do these things suffer if you load them down with a full table? Or a handful of firewall rules? ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again. - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.
Re: Residential CPE suggestions
It also has support for some type of ipv4 and ipv6 offload. On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 3:01 AM, Joe Greco jgr...@ns.sol.net wrote: I was also going to recommend the EdgeRouter Pro as it has dual SFP = ports and the Vyatta/Linux stuff works quite well. I suspect you will be very surprised with the quality experience. If = you've not used Vyatta, it's very JunOS-like. Does anyone have any practical experience with the EdgeRouter with a largish number of prefixes? http://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/edgemax/EdgeRouter_DS.pdf The 2 million+ packets per second leads me to believe that this is merely a highly optimized software based router, but under Hardware Specs it specifically says hardware acceleration for packet processing. I have no idea what's being accelerated since the layer 3 forwarding performance specs for the FR-8 are 2Mpps (an 800MHz CPU) and the FRPro-8 are 2.4Mpps (1GHz) which suggests software lookup. Do these things suffer if you load them down with a full table? Or a handful of firewall rules? ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again. - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.
Re: Residential CPE suggestions
You could also go Supermicro, and build out a 1U with SFP/Copper connections and put VyOS/vyatta as a linux based routing platform going that way you'll be strictly CPU/software bound though (Intel wrote up this interesting report: http://www.csit-sun.pub.ro/~cpop/Documentatie_SM/Intel_Microprocessor_Systems/Intel_ProcessorNew/Intel%20White%20Paper/Integrating%20Services%20at%20the%20Edge%20for%20Intel%20Xeon%205500.pdfwhich is no longer available on their site seemingly). Totally built out you'd be looking at high triple digits (the SFP PCIe card and chassis/motherboard would be your biggest hits). On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 8:47 AM, Cryptographrix cryptograph...@gmail.comwrote: It also has support for some type of ipv4 and ipv6 offload. On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 3:01 AM, Joe Greco jgr...@ns.sol.net wrote: I was also going to recommend the EdgeRouter Pro as it has dual SFP = ports and the Vyatta/Linux stuff works quite well. I suspect you will be very surprised with the quality experience. If = you've not used Vyatta, it's very JunOS-like. Does anyone have any practical experience with the EdgeRouter with a largish number of prefixes? http://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/edgemax/EdgeRouter_DS.pdf The 2 million+ packets per second leads me to believe that this is merely a highly optimized software based router, but under Hardware Specs it specifically says hardware acceleration for packet processing. I have no idea what's being accelerated since the layer 3 forwarding performance specs for the FR-8 are 2Mpps (an 800MHz CPU) and the FRPro-8 are 2.4Mpps (1GHz) which suggests software lookup. Do these things suffer if you load them down with a full table? Or a handful of firewall rules? ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again. - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples. -- http://stevenmiano.com/ Miano, Steven M. http://stevenmiano.com
Re: Residential CPE suggestions
--- gary.buhrmas...@gmail.com wrote: From: Gary Buhrmaster gary.buhrmas...@gmail.com On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:59 PM, Deepak Jain dee...@ai.net wrote: Any recommendation for a residential CPE that supports dual SFP uplinks snip Have you looked at the EdgeRouter Pro? 2 SFP links, routing capability. http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax --- It looks like everyone here should start looking for a new career: Next-generation user experience allows anyone to quickly become a routing expert. ;-) scott
Re: Residential CPE suggestions
On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 2:31 PM, Scott Weeks sur...@mauigateway.com wrote: I wouldn't worry. A fancy GUI without intelligent engineering and design leveraged is just more rope for everyone to hang themselves with, esp. when something in the GUI inevitably doesn't work quite like it's supposed to. Network vendor GUIs never work 100% like they are supposed to; there's always eventually some bug or another, or limitation requiring some workaround. And IPv6 is a game-changer. It looks like everyone here should start looking for a new career: Next-generation user experience allows anyone to quickly become a routing expert. ;-) scott -- -JH
Residential CPE suggestions
Any recommendation for a residential CPE that supports dual SFP uplinks (WAN) with either a routing protocol or a resilient Ethernet solution? Ideally, LAN port should be 100/1000 CAT5. I've looking at Mikrotik, Draytek and others. Looking something in a lower three-digit price point. Otherwise I might have to do a pair of media converters on a copper switch/router that can do it (ugly!). Thanks in advance! DJ
Re: Residential CPE suggestions
On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:59 PM, Deepak Jain dee...@ai.net wrote: Any recommendation for a residential CPE that supports dual SFP uplinks (WAN) with either a routing protocol or a resilient Ethernet solution? Ideally, LAN port should be 100/1000 CAT5. I've looking at Mikrotik, Draytek and others. Looking something in a lower three-digit price point. Otherwise I might have to do a pair of media converters on a copper switch/router that can do it (ugly!). Thanks in advance! (No personal experience, but...) Have you looked at the EdgeRouter Pro? 2 SFP links, routing capability. http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax
Re: Residential CPE suggestions
On Tue, May 06, 2014 at 12:13:34AM +, Gary Buhrmaster wrote: On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:59 PM, Deepak Jain dee...@ai.net wrote: Any recommendation for a residential CPE that supports dual SFP uplinks (WAN) with either a routing protocol or a resilient Ethernet solution? Ideally, LAN port should be 100/1000 CAT5. I've looking at Mikrotik, Draytek and others. Looking something in a lower three-digit price point. Otherwise I might have to do a pair of media converters on a copper switch/router that can do it (ugly!). Thanks in advance! (No personal experience, but...) Have you looked at the EdgeRouter Pro? 2 SFP links, routing capability. http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax +1, hands down one of the better platforms for the money today. I have 3 ERLites in service and I know the pro is obviously a larger more powerful version so you should have pretty good success. -- Bryan G. Seitz
Re: Residential CPE suggestions
I've used both the Ubiquiti EdgeRouter and Cisco RV042G. The EdgeRouter runs a modified version of Vyatta that's incredibly versatile. The RV042G is your standard Cisco SOHO Dual-WAN router - it has telnet, but is limited, and otherwise is solid. On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Deepak Jain dee...@ai.net wrote: Any recommendation for a residential CPE that supports dual SFP uplinks (WAN) with either a routing protocol or a resilient Ethernet solution? Ideally, LAN port should be 100/1000 CAT5. I've looking at Mikrotik, Draytek and others. Looking something in a lower three-digit price point. Otherwise I might have to do a pair of media converters on a copper switch/router that can do it (ugly!). Thanks in advance! DJ
