Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Jay R. Ashworth]

I'm not disabled (any more than being 58 years old makes you), but I know
lots of people who are.

And procmail still works just fine, I'm told.

Cheers,
-- jra

- Original Message -
> From: "Fred Baker" 
> To: "Warren Kumari" 
> Cc: nanog@nanog.org
> Sent: Friday, October 6, 2023 4:28:43 PM
> Subject: Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

> It’s been absurd for a while now…
> 
> Sent using a machine that autocorrects in interesting ways...
> 
>> On Oct 6, 2023, at 1:15 PM, Warren Kumari  wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Oct 06, 2023 at 2:58 PM, Sean Donelan < s...@donelan.com > wrote:
> 
>>> The Disability Advocacy Community has been extensively involved with 
>>> CMAS/WEA
>>> since President Bush signed the WARN Act, passed by a republican house and
>>> republican senate, in 2006.
> 
>>> The dozens of disability groups helped design the sound and vibration 
>>> cadence
>>> (which is different than EAS), and the policies for alerting.
> 
>>> Nation-wide testing (EAS) has been conducted since 2011. And nation-wide 
>>> testing
>>> (WEA) since 2014. National tests were conducted almost every between 2011 
>>> and
>>> 2020, suspended during the pandemic.
> 
>>> The national tests are announced at least 60 days in advance by the FCC and
>>> FEMA. News media have multiple stories. Most state and many local goverments
>>> also had notifications.
> 
>>> If you haven't been involved with the disability community for a decade, and
>>> your school office didn't notify special education teachers about the news
>>> releases and government advance notifications, perhaps that's room for
>>> improvement with local school communications. Fire drills, tornado drills, 
>>> etc.
>>> often involve loud sounds and flashing lights.
> 
>> Fine! In that case I *demand* that we stop having fires and tornados and
>> similar. It's super-disruptive to have to go and hide in my basement *every
>> single time* there is a tornado, or pull over every time a fire engine comes
>> barreling down the road…. and those sirens!... and the flashy lights!
>> Wake up people, fire truck and police sirens are *specifically designed* to
>> disrupt! It's all part of their plan to, erm…. well, something something….
> 
>> Ok, now that we have reached the absurdum part of reductio ad absurdum can we
>> get back to network engineering?
> 
> > W

-- 
Jay R. Ashworth  Baylink   j...@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think   RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates   http://www.bcp38.info  2000 Land Rover DII
St Petersburg FL USA  BCP38: Ask For It By Name!   +1 727 647 1274

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Fred Baker]

It’s been absurd for a while now…Sent using a machine that autocorrects in interesting ways...On Oct 6, 2023, at 1:15 PM, Warren Kumari  wrote:On Fri, Oct 06, 2023 at 2:58 PM, Sean Donelan  wrote:
The Disability Advocacy Community has been extensively involved with 
CMAS/WEA since President Bush signed the WARN Act, passed by a republican 
house and republican senate, in 2006.

The dozens of disability groups helped design the sound and vibration 
cadence (which is different than EAS), and the policies for alerting.

Nation-wide testing (EAS) has been conducted since 2011.  And nation-wide 
testing (WEA) since 2014.  National tests were conducted almost every 
between 2011 and 2020, suspended during the pandemic.

The national tests are announced at least 60 days in advance by the FCC 
and FEMA. News media have multiple stories.  Most state and many local 
goverments also had notifications.

If you haven't been involved with the disability community for a decade, 
and your school office didn't notify special education teachers about the 
news releases and government advance notifications, perhaps that's room 
for improvement with local school communications.  Fire drills, tornado 
drills, etc. often involve loud sounds and flashing lights.Fine! In that case I *demand* that we stop having fires and tornados and similar. It's super-disruptive to have to go and hide in my basement *every single time* there is a tornado, or pull over every time a fire engine comes barreling down the road…. and those sirens!... and the flashy lights! Wake up people, fire truck and police sirens are *specifically designed* to disrupt! It's all part of their plan to, erm…. well, something something….Ok, now that we have reached the absurdum part of reductio ad absurdum can we get back to network engineering?W

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Warren Kumari]

On Fri, Oct 06, 2023 at 2:58 PM, Sean Donelan  wrote:

> The Disability Advocacy Community has been extensively involved with
> CMAS/WEA since President Bush signed the WARN Act, passed by a republican
> house and republican senate, in 2006.
>
> The dozens of disability groups helped design the sound and vibration
> cadence (which is different than EAS), and the policies for alerting.
>
> Nation-wide testing (EAS) has been conducted since 2011. And nation-wide
> testing (WEA) since 2014. National tests were conducted almost every
> between 2011 and 2020, suspended during the pandemic.
>
> The national tests are announced at least 60 days in advance by the FCC
> and FEMA. News media have multiple stories. Most state and many local
> goverments also had notifications.
>
> If you haven't been involved with the disability community for a decade,
> and your school office didn't notify special education teachers about the
> news releases and government advance notifications, perhaps that's room for
> improvement with local school communications. Fire drills, tornado drills,
> etc. often involve loud sounds and flashing lights.
>


Fine! In that case I *demand* that we stop having fires and tornados and
similar. It's super-disruptive to have to go and hide in my basement *every
single time* there is a tornado, or pull over every time a fire engine
comes barreling down the road…. and those sirens!... and the flashy lights!
Wake up people, fire truck and police sirens are *specifically designed* to
disrupt! It's all part of their plan to, erm…. well, something something….

Ok, now that we have reached the absurdum part of reductio ad absurdum can
we get back to network engineering?

W

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sean Donelan]

The Disability Advocacy Community has been extensively involved with 
CMAS/WEA since President Bush signed the WARN Act, passed by a republican 
house and republican senate, in 2006.


The dozens of disability groups helped design the sound and vibration 
cadence (which is different than EAS), and the policies for alerting.


Nation-wide testing (EAS) has been conducted since 2011.  And nation-wide 
testing (WEA) since 2014.  National tests were conducted almost every 
between 2011 and 2020, suspended during the pandemic.


The national tests are announced at least 60 days in advance by the FCC 
and FEMA. News media have multiple stories.  Most state and many local 
goverments also had notifications.



If you haven't been involved with the disability community for a decade, 
and your school office didn't notify special education teachers about the 
news releases and government advance notifications, perhaps that's room 
for improvement with local school communications.  Fire drills, tornado 
drills, etc. often involve loud sounds and flashing lights.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Collider]

While I agree with the thrust of what Sabri is saying, let's not delude 
ourselves - this is not a freedom of speech/"1st amdt." issue. The freedom of 
the press does not mean the government is obligated not to favour given presses 
(to include its own). That one's religion - freedom of religion means the 
government cannot (dis)favour any religion to be practiced by any given person 
(except, in many European countries, the King).

This is primarily a disability rights or equal protection issue (a disabled 
person should be able to choose some aspects of an emergency alert e.g. 
strobing their lights rather than firing a siren, or doing neither if their 
response to the startle response would train them to hit dismiss w/o reading, 
by which point the alert isn't saved as a notification). Disability rights 
frankly are not widely recognized by governments, even where laws exist.

There's also the risk that this could create false alarm over non-alarming 
circumstances used spuriously by parties with alerting access.

Le 5 octobre 2023 15:31:00 UTC, Grant Taylor via NANOG  a 
écrit :
>On 10/4/23 6:15 PM, Sabri Berisha wrote:
>> If this is true, and I will take your word for it, that is outrageous.
>
>Why is this outrageous?
>
>> My wife is a teacher who works with special needs kids, and her phone went 
>> of twice (the second time 15 minutes after the first). This was very 
>> disruptive as you can imagine.
>
>I can understand and appreciate the situation.
>
>> Obviously, I made sure all of the emergency notifications were set to OFF on 
>> her phone. If setting this nonsense to OFF is not working, why even have the 
>> menu option?
>
>Because the menu options apply to -- let's go with -- lesser priority / lower 
>authority alerts.
>
>> The government has no right to disrupt the day of 350 million people, 
>> however much the self-appointed emergency communication "professionals" like 
>> to think so.
>
>I can't speak to the government's right to do something or not.
>
>But I can see why governments would want the ability for one person, or their 
>proxies, to have the technical capability to send an alert to all devices in 
>their territory.
>
>I think this is a case of where four nines of alerts can be suppressed in 
>software, but the fifth nine deliberately can't be suppressed.
>
>> Furthermore, it's simply unnecessary. It is incredibly easy to add a one-bit 
>> flag indicating whether or not it's a test to such alerts.
>
>There is a test flag.
>
>My phone shows an option to ignore tests.
>
>My phone does ignore weekly tests without any problem.
>
>It seems to be that the powers that be decided to send this test without the 
>test bit set.  --  Or perhaps the presidential indicator is mutually exclusive 
>to the test bit.
>
>> This whole test was a display of poor engineering and disrespect for 
>> people's first amendment rights.
>
>I disagree.  But I digress.
>
>> Thanks,
>
>:-)
>
>
>
>-- 
>Grant. . . .
>unix || die
>

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Grant Taylor via NANOG]

On 10/4/23 6:15 PM, Sabri Berisha wrote:

If this is true, and I will take your word for it, that is outrageous.


Why is this outrageous?

My wife is a teacher who works with special needs kids, and her phone 
went of twice (the second time 15 minutes after the first). This was 
very disruptive as you can imagine.


I can understand and appreciate the situation.

Obviously, I made sure all of the emergency notifications were set 
to OFF on her phone. If setting this nonsense to OFF is not working, 
why even have the menu option?


Because the menu options apply to -- let's go with -- lesser priority / 
lower authority alerts.


The government has no right to disrupt the day of 350 million people, 
however much the self-appointed emergency communication "professionals" 
like to think so.


I can't speak to the government's right to do something or not.

But I can see why governments would want the ability for one person, or 
their proxies, to have the technical capability to send an alert to all 
devices in their territory.


I think this is a case of where four nines of alerts can be suppressed 
in software, but the fifth nine deliberately can't be suppressed.


Furthermore, it's simply unnecessary. It is incredibly easy to add a 
one-bit flag indicating whether or not it's a test to such alerts.


There is a test flag.

My phone shows an option to ignore tests.

My phone does ignore weekly tests without any problem.

It seems to be that the powers that be decided to send this test without 
the test bit set.  --  Or perhaps the presidential indicator is mutually 
exclusive to the test bit.


This whole test was a display of poor engineering and disrespect for 
people's first amendment rights.


I disagree.  But I digress.


Thanks,


:-)



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sam Mulvey]

On 10/4/23 12:14, Grant Taylor via NANOG wrote:
I was kinda surprised that none of my NOAA weather radios went off. I 
sorta assumed they'd be tied into the whole "national" alert setup.


That surprises me.

Did the newer alert not get bridged into the same system that NOAA 
radios use?


Is this by chance a Specific Area Message Encoding (S.A.M.E.) 
filtering / lack of data issue?


Can anyone corroborate NOAA weather radios not alerting? 



I was told this was intentional, as the intent was to test IPAWS and 
associated technologies vs. the NPT chain.   I work at a few small radio 
stations, so this was most of my day.


The FCC is mandating (very shortly) that broadcasters start weighting 
the digital alerts over the messages received from other radio stations, 
which is an upgrade that's going to cost us a bit.


-Sam

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Jay R. Ashworth]

- Original Message -
> From: "Sean Donelan" 

> On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, William Herrin wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 11:21 AM Sabri Berisha  wrote:
>>> Makes me wonder what I have to do to opt out of this. We all remember what
>>> happened in Hawaii.
>>
>> For the national alert you can't. That's intentional.
>>
>> Although for some reason my silenced phone made no noise. I got the
>> alert, it popped up on the screen, but no noise.
> 
> If you don't want any interruptions, you can set your phone to "Airplane
> Mode." Airplane Mode disables reception of all Wireless Emergency Alerts
> for as long as the phone stays in Airplane Mode.

And it's even possible, on most phones I have used, to turn Airplane mode on,
and then *turn wifi back on* -- that would get you most functionality, while
still precluding WEA/CMAS alerts.

I think I've got that right, don't I, Sean?

Cheers,
-- jra
-- 
Jay R. Ashworth  Baylink   j...@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think   RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates   http://www.bcp38.info  2000 Land Rover DII
St Petersburg FL USA  BCP38: Ask For It By Name!   +1 727 647 1274

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sean Donelan]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, William Herrin wrote:

On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 11:21 AM Sabri Berisha  wrote:

Makes me wonder what I have to do to opt out of this. We all remember what 
happened in Hawaii.


For the national alert you can't. That's intentional.

Although for some reason my silenced phone made no noise. I got the
alert, it popped up on the screen, but no noise.



If you don't want any interruptions, you can set your phone to "Airplane 
Mode." Airplane Mode disables reception of all Wireless Emergency Alerts 
for as long as the phone stays in Airplane Mode.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Tom Beecher]

>
> This
> whole test was a display of poor engineering and disrespect for people's
> first amendment rights.
>

You are certainly free to criticize the  system or the implementation, but
nothing about this is a First Amendment issue. Just don't.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 7:16 PM Sabri Berisha  wrote:

> - On Oct 4, 2023, at 1:02 PM, Chris Adams c...@cmadams.net wrote:
>
> > Once upon a time, Grant Taylor  said:
> >> I don't know if today's test is the same thing or not, but I
> >> remember in the last X years where there was a presidential test of
> >> the EAS and there was supposedly no way to disable it short of
> >> turning your device off.
> >
> > IIRC it is mandated that the vendors don't allow you to turn off the
> > Presidential Alert class.
>
> If this is true, and I will take your word for it, that is outrageous.
>
> My wife is a teacher who works with special needs kids, and her phone
> went of twice (the second time 15 minutes after the first). This was
> very disruptive as you can imagine.
>
> Obviously, I made sure all of the emergency notifications were set to
> OFF on her phone. If setting this nonsense to OFF is not working, why
> even have the menu option?
>
> The government has no right to disrupt the day of 350 million people,
> however much the self-appointed emergency communication "professionals"
> like to think so.
>
> Furthermore, it's simply unnecessary. It is incredibly easy to add a
> one-bit flag indicating whether or not it's a test to such alerts. This
> whole test was a display of poor engineering and disrespect for people's
> first amendment rights.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sabri
>

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sabri Berisha]

- On Oct 4, 2023, at 1:02 PM, Chris Adams c...@cmadams.net wrote:

> Once upon a time, Grant Taylor  said:
>> I don't know if today's test is the same thing or not, but I
>> remember in the last X years where there was a presidential test of
>> the EAS and there was supposedly no way to disable it short of
>> turning your device off.
> 
> IIRC it is mandated that the vendors don't allow you to turn off the
> Presidential Alert class.

If this is true, and I will take your word for it, that is outrageous.

My wife is a teacher who works with special needs kids, and her phone
went of twice (the second time 15 minutes after the first). This was
very disruptive as you can imagine. 

Obviously, I made sure all of the emergency notifications were set to
OFF on her phone. If setting this nonsense to OFF is not working, why
even have the menu option?

The government has no right to disrupt the day of 350 million people,
however much the self-appointed emergency communication "professionals"
like to think so.

Furthermore, it's simply unnecessary. It is incredibly easy to add a 
one-bit flag indicating whether or not it's a test to such alerts. This
whole test was a display of poor engineering and disrespect for people's
first amendment rights.

Thanks,

Sabri

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[William Herrin]

On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 11:21 AM Sabri Berisha  wrote:
> Makes me wonder what I have to do to opt out of this. We all remember what 
> happened in Hawaii.

For the national alert you can't. That's intentional.

Although for some reason my silenced phone made no noise. I got the
alert, it popped up on the screen, but no noise.

Regards,
Bill Herrin



-- 
William Herrin
b...@herrin.us
https://bill.herrin.us/

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sean Donelan]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Matthew Petach wrote:

Ah, I didn't realize that was locally set on the device--I thought that was
part of the message header in the message being sent out.

Thanks for the clarification.  ^_^


Yep.  That's why countries with a Prime Minister (or monarch or both) were 
complaining.  Canada complained politely, but complained.  :-)


The Cell Broadcast channel is very bit-limited.  No room for extra stuff. 
User interface presentation layer wrapper stuff is built into the handset.


Other countries couldn't force the change themselves. Needed the U.S. to 
stop insisting on "Presidential Alert" label and the mobile phone OS 
vendors to update their global software releases.  Mobile device 
manufactures would translate "Presidential Alert" into other languages, 
but wouldn't change it based on a country's political system outside of 
the U.S.


Global standards are great.  Tourist mobile phones work (and get emergency 
alerts) wherever governments send them, without needing funky Apps.  Fun 
at the Olympics with visitors from around the world getting an alert for 
the first time. Yes, I know some countries still insist on local funky 
Apps. But the U.S. insistance on its way is a pain in the a**.



Now need global mobile device manufactures to update their OS releases, 
everyone to buy new handsets or add it to the carrier localization 
configuration.


Apple's forced iOS migrations upset some people, but it does keep its 
ecosystem up to date.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Matthew Petach]

On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 12:37 PM Sean Donelan  wrote:

> On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Matthew Petach wrote:
> > Well, today's alert still showed up as "Presidential Alert", so I guess
> the
> > US hasn't quite finished changing over yet.  ^_^;
> > (Samsung Galaxy phone)
>
> Yeah, Samsung is bad about releasing software updates for its older (a few
> months old) products.
>
> Think about out-of-date security patches :-) if Samsung doesn't update a
> text field.


Ah, I didn't realize that was locally set on the device--I thought that was
part of the message header in the message being sent out.

Thanks for the clarification.  ^_^

Matt

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Ted Hatfield]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Chris Adams wrote:


Once upon a time, Grant Taylor  said:

Is this by chance a Specific Area Message Encoding (S.A.M.E.)
filtering / lack of data issue?


At least in my radio, I can't disable certain classes of things (the
high and immediate impact warnings like tornado).  I would expect the
Presidential Alert class to be the same, if it exists.


Can anyone corroborate NOAA weather radios not alerting?


My weather radio went off for the regular weekly test a couple of hours
before the national alert test, and did not go off for the national
alert.

--
Chris Adams 



Fema's press release goes into details.

https://www.fema.gov/press-release/20230803/fema-and-fcc-plan-nationwide-emergency-alert-test-oct-4-2023

Ted

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Chris Adams]

Once upon a time, Grant Taylor  said:
> I don't know if today's test is the same thing or not, but I
> remember in the last X years where there was a presidential test of
> the EAS and there was supposedly no way to disable it short of
> turning your device off.

IIRC it is mandated that the vendors don't allow you to turn off the
Presidential Alert class.

However... if you have an Android device supported by LineageOS, you can
turn them all off.  Which I forgot to do, so an old no-SIM phone I use
for some random things went off (curiously, it didn't go off until 8
minutes after my "regular" phone, and then only showed the Spanish
version).

-- 
Chris Adams 

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Chris Adams]

Once upon a time, Grant Taylor  said:
> Is this by chance a Specific Area Message Encoding (S.A.M.E.)
> filtering / lack of data issue?

At least in my radio, I can't disable certain classes of things (the
high and immediate impact warnings like tornado).  I would expect the
Presidential Alert class to be the same, if it exists.

> Can anyone corroborate NOAA weather radios not alerting?

My weather radio went off for the regular weekly test a couple of hours
before the national alert test, and did not go off for the national
alert.

-- 
Chris Adams 

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Harald Koch]

On Wed, Oct 4, 2023, at 15:09, Grant Taylor via NANOG wrote:
>
> I don't know if today's test is the same thing or not, but I remember in 
> the last X years where there was a presidential test of the EAS and 
> there was supposedly no way to disable it short of turning your device off.
>
> My understanding is that -- let's go with -- lesser priority sources can 
> be silenced, but sufficiently high priority can't be.  If the device is 
> on, it's going to make noise.

It must be nice to live in a country that uses the priorities! Canada's Alert 
Ready decided that people can't be trusted and sends ALL alerts at the 
"national alert" priority.

(When Canada last tested in May, I had my phone on silent - the alert vibrated 
but did not make noise - which is a slight improvement, I guess).

-- 
Harald Koch
c...@pobox.com

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[joel]

> On Oct 4, 2023, at 3:27 PM, Matthew Petach  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 12:25 PM Sean Donelan  > wrote:
>> 
>> Emergency alerts are built into all android, ios and other mobile phones 
>> sold in almost every country during the last 5 years.  GSM standards are 
>> global.  The U.S. finally changed "presidential alert" to "national alert" 
>> recently. 
> 
> Well, today's alert still showed up as "Presidential Alert", so I guess the 
> US hasn't quite finished changing over yet.  ^_^;
> (Samsung Galaxy phone)

Since only the President or the Director of FEMA can issue it…. It’s not too 
terrible.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sean Donelan]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Matthew Petach wrote:

Well, today's alert still showed up as "Presidential Alert", so I guess the
US hasn't quite finished changing over yet.  ^_^;
(Samsung Galaxy phone)


Yeah, Samsung is bad about releasing software updates for its older (a few 
months old) products.


Think about out-of-date security patches :-) if Samsung doesn't update a 
text field.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Aaron Wendel]

I think this is what he was referring to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Hawaii_false_missile_alert

Apparently we don't "all remember".



On 10/4/2023 1:39 PM, Sean Donelan wrote:

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Sabri Berisha wrote:
Makes me wonder what I have to do to opt out of this. We all remember 
what happened in Hawaii.


Do you mean the 98 people (at least) who died due to the Maui Lahaina 
wildfires.  Seems like the same people who complain about the testing 
of public warning systems also complain when they don't get a warning 
about something that personally affected them.



Public warning systems are designed to get your attention, wake you 
up, interrupt what you are doing.


Nevertheless, I understand some people will remove the batteries from 
smoke alarms and turn off public alerts.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sean Donelan]

Inter-agency bureaucracy.

FEMA is part of Homeland Security.  National Weather Service is part of 
the Commerce Department.  Different departments of the government.


Weather radios will active for a White House issued alert from the 
President.  NOAA doesn't activate weather radios for FEMA tests.  Because.


FEMA does activate WEA for specific NOAA/NWS high-impact alerts, and 
Earthquake alerts from USGS.


FEMA, NWS, etc have FAQs and have briefed the press since 2011.

Public warning in the U.S. is FURBARed if you look too deeply.  But most 
people don't care until a tornado blows through their house at 2am.




On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Grant Taylor via NANOG wrote:

On 10/4/23 1:45 PM, Aaron de Bruyn via NANOG wrote:
I was kinda surprised that none of my NOAA weather radios went off. I sorta 
assumed they'd be tied into the whole "national" alert setup.


That surprises me.

Did the newer alert not get bridged into the same system that NOAA radios 
use?


Is this by chance a Specific Area Message Encoding (S.A.M.E.) filtering / 
lack of data issue?


Can anyone corroborate NOAA weather radios not alerting?

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Matthew Petach]

On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 12:25 PM Sean Donelan  wrote:

>
> Emergency alerts are built into all android, ios and other mobile phones
> sold in almost every country during the last 5 years.  GSM standards are
> global.  The U.S. finally changed "presidential alert" to "national alert"
> recently.


Well, today's alert still showed up as "Presidential Alert", so I guess the
US hasn't quite finished changing over yet.  ^_^;
(Samsung Galaxy phone)

Matt

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sean Donelan]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, nanog08 wrote:

Move?  ...  :-)


Off planet?

All countries in the European Union, plus at least 35 other countries 
around the world, have or will soon implement their county-specific 
version of Emergency Mobile Alerts.


Emergency alerts are built into all android, ios and other mobile phones 
sold in almost every country during the last 5 years.  GSM standards are 
global.  The U.S. finally changed "presidential alert" to "national alert" 
recently.  People in countries with Prime Ministers or monarchs used to 
complain about Presidential Alerts, when they don't have a president.


Streaming video services currently do not have emergency alerts.  So a 
tornado destroying you house will be your warning while streaming or 
watching non-broadcast and non-cable TV.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Grant Taylor via NANOG]

On 10/4/23 1:45 PM, Aaron de Bruyn via NANOG wrote:
I was kinda surprised that none of my NOAA weather radios went off. I 
sorta assumed they'd be tied into the whole "national" alert setup.


That surprises me.

Did the newer alert not get bridged into the same system that NOAA 
radios use?


Is this by chance a Specific Area Message Encoding (S.A.M.E.) filtering 
/ lack of data issue?


Can anyone corroborate NOAA weather radios not alerting?

Why interrupt cell phones, AM/FM radio stations, and TV stations, but 
exclude NOAA weather radios?


This seems like a failure to me.

Or there's an official deprecation for the venerable NOAA / S.A.M.E. 
radios that I grew up with, which I'm not aware of.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Grant Taylor via NANOG]

On 10/4/23 1:21 PM, Sabri Berisha wrote:
So, this "worked". Despite me ensuring that my settings for Amber 
Alerts, Emergency Alerts, Public Safety Alerts, and Test Alerts are 
all off, my phone went nuts.


I'm in a similar situation.

Makes me wonder what I have to do to opt out of this. We all remember 
what happened in Hawaii.


I don't know if today's test is the same thing or not, but I remember in 
the last X years where there was a presidential test of the EAS and 
there was supposedly no way to disable it short of turning your device off.


My understanding is that -- let's go with -- lesser priority sources can 
be silenced, but sufficiently high priority can't be.  If the device is 
on, it's going to make noise.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[kn]

My watch and phone went off neither Streaming TV nor any of my computers 
displayed anything.



On 10/4/23 13:38, Joe Klein wrote:
Received it twice on the smartphone. Did not trigger the emergency 
weather system, nor impact stream on TV in NCR.


Joe Klein

"inveniet viam, aut faciet"^ --- Seneca's Hercules Furens (Act II, 
Scene 1)
"/I skate to where the puck is going to be, not to where it has been." 
-- /Wayne Gretzky

"I never lose. I either win or learn" - Nelson Mandela



On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 2:35 PM Ryan A. Krenzischek via NANOG 
 wrote:


I've only gotten the alert now ...9 times.

Ryan

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sean Donelan]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Ryan A. Krenzischek wrote:


Yes, I already tried rebooting several times.  Perhaps a large hammer will fix 
it!  At least I know I'll be well notified in an emergency.


Everytime you turn off a mobile device, it clears the cache of previous 
alerts.


You will receive the alert again when you turn the phone on, because the 
cache will be empty.  In theory, after receiving the alert, the serial 
number will be in the cache.


I do not know why Apple and Google software engineers have trouble with 
their phone software.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sean Donelan]

There are dozens of WEA alerts every day, 365x7 days a year. If you leave 
a hidden burner phone turned on the other 364 days a year, it will make a 
noise from something else.  Software mute buttons never mute everything.


Some groups use once a year events to get publicity for their causes 
(zombies, 5G, complaints about government, whatever).  Hawaii tests their 
state-wide siren system every month.  There are likely a few people who 
complain they were sleeping when the sirens are tested.


People who complain about everything, will likely complain about 
everything.



On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Collider wrote:

Some people have to for their safety or medical health (e.g. they're hiding
a burner phone from an abusive relative, or their blood pressure goes up
dangerously high when jumpscared).

The kinds of people who remove batteries from smoke alarms are going to
unfortunately use this affordance, if it's offered. I say let them.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Ryan A. Krenzischek via NANOG]

Yes, I already tried rebooting several times.  Perhaps a large hammer will fix 
it!  At least I know I'll be well notified in an emergency.

> On Oct 4, 2023, at 14:42, Sean Donelan  wrote:
>
> On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Ryan A. Krenzischek wrote:
>> I've only gotten the alert now ...9 times.
>
> Unless you keep turning your phone off, alerts have a serial number. Phones 
> check the serial number for recently received alerts.
>
>
> Or so Android and iOS developers claim.  If you are getting duplicate alerts, 
> their advice is the standard I.T. mantra -- turn you phone off and on again.
>
>



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[nanog08]

Move?  ...  :-)

On 10/4/23 12:21, Sabri Berisha wrote:

- On Oct 1, 2023, at 3:24 PM, Sean Donelan s...@donelan.com wrote:

Hi,


This year's test of the U.S. national emergency alert includes something
for ISPs and network operators.

So, this "worked". Despite me ensuring that my settings for Amber Alerts, 
Emergency Alerts, Public Safety Alerts, and Test Alerts are all off, my phone went nuts.

Makes me wonder what I have to do to opt out of this. We all remember what 
happened in Hawaii.

Thanks,

Sabri

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Aaron de Bruyn via NANOG]

I was kinda surprised that none of my NOAA weather radios went off. I sorta 
assumed they'd be tied into the whole "national" alert setup.

Why interrupt cell phones, AM/FM radio stations, and TV stations, but exclude 
NOAA weather radios?

-A

On Sun Oct 1, 2023, 10:24 PM GMT, Sean Donelan  wrote:
>
> This year's test of the U.S. national emergency alert includes something
> for ISPs and network operators.
>
> The wireless portion of the national test is scheduled 2 minutes (2:18pm
> EDT or 1818 UTC) before the main broadcast test at 2:20. Mobile phones
> usually receive the alert about a minute later. Radio and TV will receive
> the national alert a few minutes after 2:20pm.
>
> iPhone iOS 17 added a new feature for Wireless Emergency Alerts. When iOS
> 17 iPhones get a wireless emergency alert (WEA), it will trigger a data
> network query for additional information. Its a small query and
> response, but there are a lot of iPhones making the query at the same
> time (I'm assuming Apple engineer's have built in some time skew).
>
> Apple has assured FEMA that Apple's CDN and servers will be able to handle
> the triggered load.
>
> The iOS 17 triggered query will either be a tiny blip in the network
> graphs around 2:18pm to 2:22pm which no one will notice, or some CDNs and
> ISP operators will be wondering what that heck that spike was.
>
> If your phone is configured with Spanish, it will display the alert in
> both English and Spanish.
>
> “THIS IS A TEST of the National Wireless Emergency Alert System. No action is
> needed.”
>
> “ESTA ES UNA PRUEBA del Sistema Nacional de Alerta de Emergencia. No se
> necesita acción.”
>
> You'll know your iOS17 device did an extra data query, if it displays a
> longer message (extra sentences) in addition to the messages above.
>
> "This is only a test. No action is required by the public."
>
>
> https://www.fema.gov/press-release/20230803/fema-and-fcc-plan-nationwide-emergency-alert-test-oct-4-2023

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Collider]

Some people have to for their safety or medical health (e.g. they're hiding a 
burner phone from an abusive relative, or their blood pressure goes up 
dangerously high when jumpscared).

The kinds of people who remove batteries from smoke alarms are going to 
unfortunately use this affordance, if it's offered. I say let them.

Le 4 octobre 2023 18:39:04 UTC, Sean Donelan  a écrit :
>On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Sabri Berisha wrote:
>> Makes me wonder what I have to do to opt out of this. We all remember what 
>> happened in Hawaii.
>
>Do you mean the 98 people (at least) who died due to the Maui Lahaina 
>wildfires.  Seems like the same people who complain about the testing of 
>public warning systems also complain when they don't get a warning about 
>something that personally affected them.
>
>
>Public warning systems are designed to get your attention, wake you up, 
>interrupt what you are doing.
>
>Nevertheless, I understand some people will remove the batteries from smoke 
>alarms and turn off public alerts.

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sean Donelan]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Ryan A. Krenzischek wrote:

I've only gotten the alert now ...9 times.


Unless you keep turning your phone off, alerts have a serial number. 
Phones check the serial number for recently received alerts.



Or so Android and iOS developers claim.  If you are getting duplicate 
alerts, their advice is the standard I.T. mantra -- turn you phone off and 
on again.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sean Donelan]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Sabri Berisha wrote:

Makes me wonder what I have to do to opt out of this. We all remember what 
happened in Hawaii.


Do you mean the 98 people (at least) who died due to the Maui Lahaina 
wildfires.  Seems like the same people who complain about the testing of 
public warning systems also complain when they don't get a warning about 
something that personally affected them.



Public warning systems are designed to get your attention, wake you up, 
interrupt what you are doing.


Nevertheless, I understand some people will remove the batteries from 
smoke alarms and turn off public alerts.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Joe Klein]

Received it twice on the smartphone. Did not trigger the emergency weather
system, nor impact stream on TV in NCR.

Joe Klein

"inveniet viam, aut faciet" --- Seneca's Hercules Furens (Act II, Scene 1)
"*I skate to where the puck is going to be, not to where it has been."
-- *Wayne
Gretzky
"I never lose. I either win or learn" - Nelson Mandela


On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 2:35 PM Ryan A. Krenzischek via NANOG <
nanog@nanog.org> wrote:

> I've only gotten the alert now ...9 times.
>
> Ryan
>

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Ryan A. Krenzischek via NANOG]

I've only gotten the alert now ...9 times.

Ryan


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

RE: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Kain, Becki (.) via NANOG]

My watch went off.  scared the beejeebus out of me


-Original Message-
From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Sabri Berisha
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2023 2:21 PM
To: Sean Donelan 
Cc: nanog 
Subject: Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

WARNING: This message originated outside of Ford Motor Company. Use caution 
when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding.


- On Oct 1, 2023, at 3:24 PM, Sean Donelan s...@donelan.com wrote:

Hi,

> This year's test of the U.S. national emergency alert includes 
> something for ISPs and network operators.

So, this "worked". Despite me ensuring that my settings for Amber Alerts, 
Emergency Alerts, Public Safety Alerts, and Test Alerts are all off, my phone 
went nuts.

Makes me wonder what I have to do to opt out of this. We all remember what 
happened in Hawaii.

Thanks,

Sabri

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sabri Berisha]

- On Oct 1, 2023, at 3:24 PM, Sean Donelan s...@donelan.com wrote:

Hi,

> This year's test of the U.S. national emergency alert includes something
> for ISPs and network operators.

So, this "worked". Despite me ensuring that my settings for Amber Alerts, 
Emergency Alerts, Public Safety Alerts, and Test Alerts are all off, my phone 
went nuts.

Makes me wonder what I have to do to opt out of this. We all remember what 
happened in Hawaii.

Thanks,

Sabri

U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sean Donelan]

This year's test of the U.S. national emergency alert includes something 
for ISPs and network operators.


The wireless portion of the national test is scheduled 2 minutes (2:18pm 
EDT or 1818 UTC) before the main broadcast test at 2:20.  Mobile phones 
usually receive the alert about a minute later. Radio and TV will receive 
the national alert a few minutes after 2:20pm.


iPhone iOS 17 added a new feature for Wireless Emergency Alerts. When iOS 
17 iPhones get a wireless emergency alert (WEA), it will trigger a data 
network query for additional information.  Its a small query and 
response, but there are a lot of iPhones making the query at the same 
time (I'm assuming Apple engineer's have built in some time skew).


Apple has assured FEMA that Apple's CDN and servers will be able to handle 
the triggered load.


The iOS 17 triggered query will either be a tiny blip in the network 
graphs around 2:18pm to 2:22pm which no one will notice, or some CDNs and 
ISP operators will be wondering what that heck that spike was.


If your phone is configured with Spanish, it will display the alert in 
both English and Spanish.


“THIS IS A TEST of the National Wireless Emergency Alert System. No action is 
needed.”


“ESTA ES UNA PRUEBA del Sistema Nacional de Alerta de Emergencia. No se 
necesita acción.”


You'll know your iOS17 device did an extra data query, if it displays a 
longer message (extra sentences) in addition to the messages above.


"This is only a test. No action is required by the public."


https://www.fema.gov/press-release/20230803/fema-and-fcc-plan-nationwide-emergency-alert-test-oct-4-2023