Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Jack Bates]

On 9/21/2010 2:53 PM, Patrick Giagnocavo wrote:

On 9/21/2010 6:04 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote:


http://www.itnews.com.au/News/232831,us-hunters-shoot-down-google-fibre.aspx



1. Deer tend to hang out in little clearings while eating.  Little
clearings like the right of way clearing 25 or 50 feet on each side of
an electricity pylon.



Deer hang out in a lot of places that I wouldn't shoot them.


2.  Deer are easier to shoot when their silhouette is seen at or near
the top of a ridge, especially if they are in a clearing as well.



This is why most states require hunter safety courses, which among other 
things points out that not only should you be able to identify your 
target, but you should have good visibility behind your target. Bullets 
pass through animals (or miss), and continue to travel. Silhouette on a 
ridge shootings is how people get shot accidentally.



Combine #1 and #2, it is logical that even without "bubbas" the
deer/fiber coincidence level would be high.


Any true hunter combining #1 and #2 should have his license permanently 
revoked. Why not just shoot deer in headlights or on roads, or in 
populated areas with people and houses behind them? (sarcasm)


That being said, there are plenty of people that just shoot things; 
inanimate objects or animals (often without a license). The article 
wasn't meant to be, but is insulting. Incidents involving guns, cars, 
ATVs, etc, etc aren't too uncommon, though the damage for us is usually 
less than a single wildfire (which melts the peds for the ground cable 
and destroys the poles and cable for the aerial). Heck, we had a semi 
riding the back roads (possibly to avoid highway patrol) snag an aerial 
crossing the road. It was witnessed by the local gas station attendant. 
he dragged the cabled for 1000 feet or so, ripping down poles. Stopped, 
unhooked the cable from the truck, and drove off.



Jack

Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Joe Provo]

...and I used to live in parts of Virginia where rednecks took 
out signs with shotguns and no doubt now [if not run out by 
gentrification] take out fiber.

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 01:59:03PM -0700, Michael K. Smith - Adhost wrote:
[snip]
> Long story short, you can't account for stupid.

...and the same presentation reported on from AUSNOG was at 
last NANOG in SF by the same presenter. Can some kind hunter
deliver the coup de grace to this thread?  Just cruel to keep 
beating this horse with the same anecdote sticks.

-- 
 RSUC / GweepNet / Spunk / FnB / Usenix / SAGE

Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Joel Jaeggli]

On 9/21/10 2:10 PM, Michael Painter wrote:
> David DiGiacomo wrote:
>> Instead of a rifle, how about a shotgun? It fires a nice wide spread
>> shot pattern. I think you would be much more likely to do
>> some damage (ie: knock fiber off a pole) with something like that.
>> Here in New Jersey it is illegal to use a rifle to hunt deer,
>> so typically you will find hunters using a bow/arrow or Shotgun and
>> you will see a lot of road signs (or other abandon junk) that
>> has been victim of a shotgun blast.

you don't hunt deer with buckshot...

the shotgun consideration is due to the range, and the expectation is
that your target is under 100 meters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_slug

>> ~Dave
> 
> Birds like to sit on wires and assholes like to shoot them.
> 50 years ago I carried around the .22 slug I dug out of the
> lead-sheathed cable while troubleshooting the outer marker for McClellan
> AFB in the middle of a rainy night.
> 
> --Michael
> 

Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Michael Painter]

David DiGiacomo wrote:
Instead of a rifle, how about a shotgun? It fires a nice wide spread shot pattern. I think you would be much more likely 
to do
some damage (ie: knock fiber off a pole) with something like that. Here in New Jersey it is illegal to use a rifle to 
hunt deer,
so typically you will find hunters using a bow/arrow or Shotgun and you will see a lot of road signs (or other abandon 
junk) that

has been victim of a shotgun blast.

~Dave


Birds like to sit on wires and assholes like to shoot them.
50 years ago I carried around the .22 slug I dug out of the lead-sheathed cable while troubleshooting the outer marker for 
McClellan AFB in the middle of a rainy night.


--Michael 

RE: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Michael K. Smith - Adhost]

> -Original Message-
> From: Reese [mailto:re...@inkworkswell.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 12:36 PM
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre
> 
> At 11:39 21 09 10, Leslie wrote:
> 
> >I don't think anyone is claiming all hunters/gun owners are
irresponsible,
> 
> Re-read the article. "[h]unters" it said, not "some hunters" or
> "irresponsible hunters". How broad must the brush be, before you
> feel personally impugned and maligned?
> 
> >but, as with any segment of the population, when you have a large
> >group there will be a percentage of complete idiots out there who
> >take stupid actions.
> 
> I acknowledged that. I regret its truthiness. But with Google and
> only Google as a named victim of the hardware DoS, I have yet to
> read anything that convinces me that it was not corporate sabotage.
> 
> My point was not that wires and insulators do not get shot or shot
> at, but that "hunters" was a convenient excuse that other things
> could be too-conveniently classified with.
> 
> Who, here, hunts? Shoot at wires and insulators on towers, do you?
> 
> Reese
> 
> 
I live in Washington State and have managed a fiber network along paths
similar to the ones being taken by Google.  Every winter we had at least
4 shotgun-blast outages, sometimes in the middle of nowhere and
sometimes with a direct line of site to the back porch of a local
"manufactured home".You would be amazed at what people find fun with
during a long, cold winter and a belly full of libations.  And I can
almost guarantee you it wasn't sabotage.  In many cases, the revelers
were shooting at power lines and happened to hit the fibers wrapped
around the ground wire.  These are 500 kV lines by the way.  Long story
short, you can't account for stupid.

Mike

--
Michael K. Smith - CISSP, GSEC, GISP
Chief Technical Officer - Adhost Internet LLC mksm...@adhost.com
w: +1 (206) 404-9500 f: +1 (206) 404-9050
PGP: B49A DDF5 8611 27F3  08B9 84BB E61E 38C0 (Key ID: 0x9A96777D)
 

Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Patrick Giagnocavo]

On 9/21/2010 6:04 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote:
> 
> http://www.itnews.com.au/News/232831,us-hunters-shoot-down-google-fibre.aspx
> 

1. Deer tend to hang out in little clearings while eating.  Little
clearings like the right of way clearing 25 or 50 feet on each side of
an electricity pylon.

2.  Deer are easier to shoot when their silhouette is seen at or near
the top of a ridge, especially if they are in a clearing as well.

Combine #1 and #2, it is logical that even without "bubbas" the
deer/fiber coincidence level would be high.

--Patrick

Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Reese]

At 11:39 21 09 10, Leslie wrote:


I don't think anyone is claiming all hunters/gun owners are irresponsible,


Re-read the article. "[h]unters" it said, not "some hunters" or
"irresponsible hunters". How broad must the brush be, before you
feel personally impugned and maligned?

but, as with any segment of the population, when you have a large 
group there will be a percentage of complete idiots out there who 
take stupid actions.


I acknowledged that. I regret its truthiness. But with Google and
only Google as a named victim of the hardware DoS, I have yet to
read anything that convinces me that it was not corporate sabotage.

My point was not that wires and insulators do not get shot or shot
at, but that "hunters" was a convenient excuse that other things
could be too-conveniently classified with.

Who, here, hunts? Shoot at wires and insulators on towers, do you?

Reese

Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Wayne E. Bouchard]

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 02:45:11PM -0400, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
> What I have to wonder about is how often hunter-inflicted damage is 
> intentional
> and located at the insulator (which makes for a good story) and how often it's
> a totally accidental stray bullet nicking the cable many yards from the 
> nearest
> pole (which makes for a poor story).  I'd expect that since the fiber is
> usually hung much closer to the ground, it would get hit a lot more than the
> power cables higher up. Also, you're less likely to notice a 1mm divot taken
> out of a (usually thicker and sturdier and essentially single fat conductor)
> power cable than a 1mm divot out of a 48 pair.

What I want to know is, even if the story is bogus, why is anyone
surprised by the prospect?

It's been my experience that when Bubba goes out into the woods that
anything manmade becomes a target. Microwave reflectors, telephone
poles, road signs, water towers, windmills you name it and some
low-brow will shoot at it. That and leave shell casings and shotgun
hulls all over the place when he's done. Gives all us responsible
folks a bad name... Now I just have one more good reason to loathe
that behavior.

(and we're now drifting well off topic so this thread should probably
die pretty quickly.)

-Wayne

---
Wayne Bouchard
w...@typo.org
Network Dude
http://www.typo.org/~web/

RE: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[David DiGiacomo]

Instead of a rifle, how about a shotgun? It fires a nice wide spread shot 
pattern. I think you would be much more likely to do some damage (ie: knock 
fiber off a pole) with something like that. Here in New Jersey it is illegal to 
use a rifle to hunt deer, so typically you will find hunters using a bow/arrow 
or Shotgun and you will see a lot of road signs (or other abandon junk) that 
has been victim of a shotgun blast.

~Dave


-Original Message-
From: Seth Mattinen [mailto:se...@rollernet.us] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 2:03 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

On 9/21/2010 10:52, Holmes,David A wrote:
> Modern telephone pole aerial fiber uses all dialectric self-supporting
> (ADSS) technology, where the self-supporting component consists
> primarily of aramid yarn, the same material used for bullet-proof vests.
> This makes for an extremely light weight, almost indestructible fiber
> bundle. My guess is that ADSS fiber would deflect any bullets, or it
> would take a very good marksman using a very high caliber weapon to
> actually sever an aerial fiber. 
> 
> Now in the case described below where optical ground wire (OPGW) fiber
> is used as a component in the ground wire running at the top of high
> voltage transmission towers, it may be possible to hit the insulators at
> the top of the towers, but the ground wire itself is usually armored,
> with ADSS inside. Seems far-fetched to me.
> 


Back in my ISP days it was more common for people to take pot shots at
remote equipment cabinets than the cable/fiber itself. Any field
enclosure is as easy a target as your average bullet-ridden road sign.
Although this was extremely rare; I can only recall one instance where
it was the direct cause of an outage.

~Seth

Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Valdis . Kletnieks]

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:10:38 MDT, Kevin Neal said:
> How are the guys sent out on cross-country skis going to get up to the fiber
> to repair it?  I'm sure that the cable isn't low enough for them to reach it
> without a ladder, bucket truck, helicopter  all of which you don't pack
> in on skis...

Of course it's easily reachable - it's been shot down and is on the ground.  If
it was still on the pole you wouldn't be out there on skis with a splice kit. :)

What I have to wonder about is how often hunter-inflicted damage is intentional
and located at the insulator (which makes for a good story) and how often it's
a totally accidental stray bullet nicking the cable many yards from the nearest
pole (which makes for a poor story).  I'd expect that since the fiber is
usually hung much closer to the ground, it would get hit a lot more than the
power cables higher up. Also, you're less likely to notice a 1mm divot taken
out of a (usually thicker and sturdier and essentially single fat conductor)
power cable than a 1mm divot out of a 48 pair.

(Consider that even today, it is *still* relatively common to visit some CIvil
War battlegrounds and find 2 bullets that hit each other in mid-air.  Of
course, most of those were probably going down a narrow cone pointed at the
source of the other bullet, but still, it indicates that with enough hunters
and enough bullets, somebody's going to nick that 300 miles of cable hanging
just a few yards above the deer



pgpq7nRTktt0l.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Kevin Neal]

I guess it depends on whether these are wooden poles or the metal towers
that I find around here for long haul power.

-Kevin


On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Mark Keymer  wrote:

> Hi Kevin,
>
> That is easy. "Tree Climbing Spurs / Tree Climbing Spikes" A quick
> Google search found these for sale. http://wesspur.com/spurs/spurs.html
>
> :)
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Mark
>
>
> Kevin Neal wrote:
> > How are the guys sent out on cross-country skis going to get up to the
> fiber
> > to repair it?  I'm sure that the cable isn't low enough for them to reach
> it
> > without a ladder, bucket truck, helicopter  all of which you don't
> pack
> > in on skis...
> >
> >
> > -Kevin
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Seth Mattinen 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> On 9/21/2010 10:52, Holmes,David A wrote:
> >>
> >>> Modern telephone pole aerial fiber uses all dialectric self-supporting
> >>> (ADSS) technology, where the self-supporting component consists
> >>> primarily of aramid yarn, the same material used for bullet-proof
> vests.
> >>> This makes for an extremely light weight, almost indestructible fiber
> >>> bundle. My guess is that ADSS fiber would deflect any bullets, or it
> >>> would take a very good marksman using a very high caliber weapon to
> >>> actually sever an aerial fiber.
> >>>
> >>> Now in the case described below where optical ground wire (OPGW) fiber
> >>> is used as a component in the ground wire running at the top of high
> >>> voltage transmission towers, it may be possible to hit the insulators
> at
> >>> the top of the towers, but the ground wire itself is usually armored,
> >>> with ADSS inside. Seems far-fetched to me.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Back in my ISP days it was more common for people to take pot shots at
> >> remote equipment cabinets than the cable/fiber itself. Any field
> >> enclosure is as easy a target as your average bullet-ridden road sign.
> >> Although this was extremely rare; I can only recall one instance where
> >> it was the direct cause of an outage.
> >>
> >> ~Seth
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
>

Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Mark Keymer]

Hi Kevin,

That is easy. "Tree Climbing Spurs / Tree Climbing Spikes" A quick
Google search found these for sale. http://wesspur.com/spurs/spurs.html

:)

Sincerely,

Mark


Kevin Neal wrote:
> How are the guys sent out on cross-country skis going to get up to the fiber
> to repair it?  I'm sure that the cable isn't low enough for them to reach it
> without a ladder, bucket truck, helicopter  all of which you don't pack
> in on skis...
>
>
> -Kevin
>
> On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>
>   
>> On 9/21/2010 10:52, Holmes,David A wrote:
>> 
>>> Modern telephone pole aerial fiber uses all dialectric self-supporting
>>> (ADSS) technology, where the self-supporting component consists
>>> primarily of aramid yarn, the same material used for bullet-proof vests.
>>> This makes for an extremely light weight, almost indestructible fiber
>>> bundle. My guess is that ADSS fiber would deflect any bullets, or it
>>> would take a very good marksman using a very high caliber weapon to
>>> actually sever an aerial fiber.
>>>
>>> Now in the case described below where optical ground wire (OPGW) fiber
>>> is used as a component in the ground wire running at the top of high
>>> voltage transmission towers, it may be possible to hit the insulators at
>>> the top of the towers, but the ground wire itself is usually armored,
>>> with ADSS inside. Seems far-fetched to me.
>>>
>>>   
>> Back in my ISP days it was more common for people to take pot shots at
>> remote equipment cabinets than the cable/fiber itself. Any field
>> enclosure is as easy a target as your average bullet-ridden road sign.
>> Although this was extremely rare; I can only recall one instance where
>> it was the direct cause of an outage.
>>
>> ~Seth
>>
>>
>> 

Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Kevin Neal]

How are the guys sent out on cross-country skis going to get up to the fiber
to repair it?  I'm sure that the cable isn't low enough for them to reach it
without a ladder, bucket truck, helicopter  all of which you don't pack
in on skis...


-Kevin

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 9/21/2010 10:52, Holmes,David A wrote:
> > Modern telephone pole aerial fiber uses all dialectric self-supporting
> > (ADSS) technology, where the self-supporting component consists
> > primarily of aramid yarn, the same material used for bullet-proof vests.
> > This makes for an extremely light weight, almost indestructible fiber
> > bundle. My guess is that ADSS fiber would deflect any bullets, or it
> > would take a very good marksman using a very high caliber weapon to
> > actually sever an aerial fiber.
> >
> > Now in the case described below where optical ground wire (OPGW) fiber
> > is used as a component in the ground wire running at the top of high
> > voltage transmission towers, it may be possible to hit the insulators at
> > the top of the towers, but the ground wire itself is usually armored,
> > with ADSS inside. Seems far-fetched to me.
> >
>
>
> Back in my ISP days it was more common for people to take pot shots at
> remote equipment cabinets than the cable/fiber itself. Any field
> enclosure is as easy a target as your average bullet-ridden road sign.
> Although this was extremely rare; I can only recall one instance where
> it was the direct cause of an outage.
>
> ~Seth
>
>

Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Seth Mattinen]

On 9/21/2010 10:52, Holmes,David A wrote:
> Modern telephone pole aerial fiber uses all dialectric self-supporting
> (ADSS) technology, where the self-supporting component consists
> primarily of aramid yarn, the same material used for bullet-proof vests.
> This makes for an extremely light weight, almost indestructible fiber
> bundle. My guess is that ADSS fiber would deflect any bullets, or it
> would take a very good marksman using a very high caliber weapon to
> actually sever an aerial fiber. 
> 
> Now in the case described below where optical ground wire (OPGW) fiber
> is used as a component in the ground wire running at the top of high
> voltage transmission towers, it may be possible to hit the insulators at
> the top of the towers, but the ground wire itself is usually armored,
> with ADSS inside. Seems far-fetched to me.
> 


Back in my ISP days it was more common for people to take pot shots at
remote equipment cabinets than the cable/fiber itself. Any field
enclosure is as easy a target as your average bullet-ridden road sign.
Although this was extremely rare; I can only recall one instance where
it was the direct cause of an outage.

~Seth

RE: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Holmes,David A]

Modern telephone pole aerial fiber uses all dialectric self-supporting
(ADSS) technology, where the self-supporting component consists
primarily of aramid yarn, the same material used for bullet-proof vests.
This makes for an extremely light weight, almost indestructible fiber
bundle. My guess is that ADSS fiber would deflect any bullets, or it
would take a very good marksman using a very high caliber weapon to
actually sever an aerial fiber. 

Now in the case described below where optical ground wire (OPGW) fiber
is used as a component in the ground wire running at the top of high
voltage transmission towers, it may be possible to hit the insulators at
the top of the towers, but the ground wire itself is usually armored,
with ADSS inside. Seems far-fetched to me.

-Original Message-
From: Eugen Leitl [mailto:eu...@leitl.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 3:05 AM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: US hunters shoot down Google fibre


http://www.itnews.com.au/News/232831,us-hunters-shoot-down-google-fibre.
aspx

Repairers forced to ski in to Oregon back woods.

Google has revealed that aerial fibre links to its data centre in Oregon
were
"regularly" shot down by hunters, forcing the company to put its cables
underground.

The search and advertising giant's network engineering manager Vijay
Gill
told the AusNOG conference in Sydney last week that people were trying
to hit
insulators on electricity distribution poles.

The poles also hosted aerially-deployed fibre connected to Google's
$US600
million ($A635 million) data centre in the Dalles, a small city on the
Columbia River in the US state of Oregon.

"What people do for sport or because they're bored, they try to shoot at
the
insulators," Gill said.

"I have yet to see them actually hit the insulator, but they regularly
shoot
down the fibre.

"Every November when hunting season starts invariably we know that the
fibre
will be shot down, so much so that we are now building an underground
path
[for it]."

Gill said that on one occasion, a snowstorm and avalanche prevented
Google
from transporting repairers and gear into the area of the cut.

It usually used a helicopter or a Caterpillar D9 tractor for transport.
It
improvised by sending three technicians on skis to "repair the fibre
that got
shot down".

"These guys had to cross country ski for three days," Gill said.

"[One guy] is carrying what is known as a fusion splicing kit on his
backpack."

He joked: "These guys had to go in and fix the fibre while facing
gunshots

"So [the] internet... [it's] more dangerous than you realise."

Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Andrew Kirch]

 On 9/21/2010 12:29 PM, Tony Finch wrote:

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010, Reese wrote:
Several years ago I heard of a Swiss ISP having the same problem. They
built their network by running fibre along the earth conductor of high
voltage transmission lines (like Energis in the UK). I was told that it
was common for hunters to verify the setting of their sights by shooting
at the lines.

Tony.
I shoot competition rifle, and rifles just aren't that accurate.  You 
certainly CAN shoot out a fiber or utility line on the pole, from point 
blank, but it's not actually useful in diagnosing or correcting problems 
with the rifle.  A good rifle will shoot 1" groups (`MOA) at 100 yards, 
and most lines on the pole are smaller, fiber being much smaller.  There 
are rifles that exceed 1MOA, but most hunters quite frankly can't afford 
them, nor are they necessary for hunting.




Andrew

Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Tony Finch]

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010, Reese wrote:
>
> I don't want to start an off-topic subthread but I have to call
> bullshit on this so-called "news" story.

Several years ago I heard of a Swiss ISP having the same problem. They
built their network by running fibre along the earth conductor of high
voltage transmission lines (like Energis in the UK). I was told that it
was common for hunters to verify the setting of their sights by shooting
at the lines.

Tony.
-- 
f.anthony.n.finchhttp://dotat.at/
HUMBER THAMES DOVER WIGHT PORTLAND: NORTH BACKING WEST OR NORTHWEST, 5 TO 7,
DECREASING 4 OR 5, OCCASIONALLY 6 LATER IN HUMBER AND THAMES. MODERATE OR
ROUGH. RAIN THEN FAIR. GOOD.

Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Leslie]

I don't want to start an off-topic subthread but I have to call
bullshit on this so-called "news" story. So it is my intent that
this be my first, last, and only post on this topic.

Was it addressed at NANOG (in SF?) that many rifles and amateur
shooters both, are capable of sub-MOA accuracy at short distances?
By short, I mean ~50 yards or less.

Or that a hunter with even modest self-training, who was aiming at
an insulator with a properly sighted-in rifle at short range, has
a significantly greater probability of hitting the insulator being
aimed at than of hitting the supported wire? That wasn't addressed
in the buttwipe propaganda from down under. Need I remind anyone of
the Dunblane and Port Arthur incidents and the subsequent gun control
crackdowns in each of those countries. I wouldn't expect any crown-
influenced news agency to give issues involving our Second Amendment
a fair shake. Just like I don't expect logic or sanity from the Brady
Campaign on the 2A issue. Nor should anyone else. The story smacks of
deliberately painting hunters as irresponsible ruffians and worse.

What sort of repair rates do the power or other companies running
wire across that expanse contend with? Given the remoteness, the
identity of the affected client (Google) and the apparent absence of
additional information, corporate sabotage seems just-as or even-more
probable than random irresponsible hunters. To be fair, some shooters
are irresponsible, but deliberate sabotage cannot be ruled out with
only the information currently available.


In my experience, there's really two types of shootings (which really 
depend on the region) -- Number one is using shotguns, not rifles, and 
bird hunting - for example when goose hunting season happens, you'll see 
fiber shot out over lakes/rivers more often - I think this is both bad 
aim and not really caring.  (Occasionally the shot will even be stuck in 
the lines or insulation so you can tell it was a shotgun) The second is 
drunk idiots shooting at the lines - this is more universal and happens 
closer to civilization.  Power companies will also have repair issues 
with either of these, but fiber, phone, and cable lines are more likely 
as they are lower to the ground due to regulations that state they have 
to be at least X feet away from the power lines.


I don't think anyone is claiming all hunters/gun owners are 
irresponsible, but, as with any segment of the population, when you have 
a large group there will be a percentage of complete idiots out there 
who take stupid actions.


As for the 2nd amendment stuff - I'm not touching that one with a 10 
foot fiber ;)


Leslie

RE: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Todd Snyder]

"Fiber Week"?

-Original Message-
From: Leslie [mailto:les...@craigslist.org]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 11:29 AM
To: Christopher Morrow
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

Hunters, backhoes, and ship anchors are all fiber's natural enemies -
I'm surprised Discovery Channel hasn't done a special on it!

On 9/21/10 6:19 AM, Christopher Morrow wrote:
> this was presented at the nanog in ... SF I think as well:
> <http://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog49/abstracts.php?pt=MTU5NSZuYW5vZzQ5&nm=nanog49>
>
> not really news...
>
> On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 6:04 AM, Eugen Leitl  wrote:
>>
>> http://www.itnews.com.au/News/232831,us-hunters-shoot-down-google-fibre.aspx
>>
>> Repairers forced to ski in to Oregon back woods.
>>
>> Google has revealed that aerial fibre links to its data centre in Oregon were
>> "regularly" shot down by hunters, forcing the company to put its cables
>> underground.
>>
>> The search and advertising giant's network engineering manager Vijay Gill
>> told the AusNOG conference in Sydney last week that people were trying to hit
>> insulators on electricity distribution poles.
>>
>> The poles also hosted aerially-deployed fibre connected to Google's $US600
>> million ($A635 million) data centre in the Dalles, a small city on the
>> Columbia River in the US state of Oregon.
>>
>> "What people do for sport or because they're bored, they try to shoot at the
>> insulators," Gill said.
>>
>> "I have yet to see them actually hit the insulator, but they regularly shoot
>> down the fibre.
>>
>> "Every November when hunting season starts invariably we know that the fibre
>> will be shot down, so much so that we are now building an underground path
>> [for it]."
>>
>> Gill said that on one occasion, a snowstorm and avalanche prevented Google
>> from transporting repairers and gear into the area of the cut.
>>
>> It usually used a helicopter or a Caterpillar D9 tractor for transport. It
>> improvised by sending three technicians on skis to "repair the fibre that got
>> shot down".
>>
>> "These guys had to cross country ski for three days," Gill said.
>>
>> "[One guy] is carrying what is known as a fusion splicing kit on his
>> backpack."
>>
>> He joked: "These guys had to go in and fix the fibre while facing gunshots
>>
>> "So [the] internet... [it's] more dangerous than you realise."
>>
>>


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Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Reese]

At 09:19 21 09 10, Christopher Morrow wrote:


this was presented at the nanog in ... SF I think as well:


not really news...

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 6:04 AM, Eugen Leitl  wrote:
>
> 



I don't want to start an off-topic subthread but I have to call
bullshit on this so-called "news" story. So it is my intent that
this be my first, last, and only post on this topic.

Was it addressed at NANOG (in SF?) that many rifles and amateur
shooters both, are capable of sub-MOA accuracy at short distances?
By short, I mean ~50 yards or less.

Or that a hunter with even modest self-training, who was aiming at
an insulator with a properly sighted-in rifle at short range, has
a significantly greater probability of hitting the insulator being
aimed at than of hitting the supported wire? That wasn't addressed
in the buttwipe propaganda from down under. Need I remind anyone of
the Dunblane and Port Arthur incidents and the subsequent gun control
crackdowns in each of those countries. I wouldn't expect any crown-
influenced news agency to give issues involving our Second Amendment
a fair shake. Just like I don't expect logic or sanity from the Brady
Campaign on the 2A issue. Nor should anyone else. The story smacks of
deliberately painting hunters as irresponsible ruffians and worse.

What sort of repair rates do the power or other companies running
wire across that expanse contend with? Given the remoteness, the
identity of the affected client (Google) and the apparent absence of
additional information, corporate sabotage seems just-as or even-more
probable than random irresponsible hunters. To be fair, some shooters
are irresponsible, but deliberate sabotage cannot be ruled out with
only the information currently available.

Reese

Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Leslie]

Hunters, backhoes, and ship anchors are all fiber's natural enemies - 
I'm surprised Discovery Channel hasn't done a special on it!


On 9/21/10 6:19 AM, Christopher Morrow wrote:

this was presented at the nanog in ... SF I think as well:


not really news...

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 6:04 AM, Eugen Leitl  wrote:


http://www.itnews.com.au/News/232831,us-hunters-shoot-down-google-fibre.aspx

Repairers forced to ski in to Oregon back woods.

Google has revealed that aerial fibre links to its data centre in Oregon were
"regularly" shot down by hunters, forcing the company to put its cables
underground.

The search and advertising giant's network engineering manager Vijay Gill
told the AusNOG conference in Sydney last week that people were trying to hit
insulators on electricity distribution poles.

The poles also hosted aerially-deployed fibre connected to Google's $US600
million ($A635 million) data centre in the Dalles, a small city on the
Columbia River in the US state of Oregon.

"What people do for sport or because they're bored, they try to shoot at the
insulators," Gill said.

"I have yet to see them actually hit the insulator, but they regularly shoot
down the fibre.

"Every November when hunting season starts invariably we know that the fibre
will be shot down, so much so that we are now building an underground path
[for it]."

Gill said that on one occasion, a snowstorm and avalanche prevented Google
from transporting repairers and gear into the area of the cut.

It usually used a helicopter or a Caterpillar D9 tractor for transport. It
improvised by sending three technicians on skis to "repair the fibre that got
shot down".

"These guys had to cross country ski for three days," Gill said.

"[One guy] is carrying what is known as a fusion splicing kit on his
backpack."

He joked: "These guys had to go in and fix the fibre while facing gunshots

"So [the] internet... [it's] more dangerous than you realise."

Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Christopher Morrow]

this was presented at the nanog in ... SF I think as well:


not really news...

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 6:04 AM, Eugen Leitl  wrote:
>
> http://www.itnews.com.au/News/232831,us-hunters-shoot-down-google-fibre.aspx
>
> Repairers forced to ski in to Oregon back woods.
>
> Google has revealed that aerial fibre links to its data centre in Oregon were
> "regularly" shot down by hunters, forcing the company to put its cables
> underground.
>
> The search and advertising giant's network engineering manager Vijay Gill
> told the AusNOG conference in Sydney last week that people were trying to hit
> insulators on electricity distribution poles.
>
> The poles also hosted aerially-deployed fibre connected to Google's $US600
> million ($A635 million) data centre in the Dalles, a small city on the
> Columbia River in the US state of Oregon.
>
> "What people do for sport or because they're bored, they try to shoot at the
> insulators," Gill said.
>
> "I have yet to see them actually hit the insulator, but they regularly shoot
> down the fibre.
>
> "Every November when hunting season starts invariably we know that the fibre
> will be shot down, so much so that we are now building an underground path
> [for it]."
>
> Gill said that on one occasion, a snowstorm and avalanche prevented Google
> from transporting repairers and gear into the area of the cut.
>
> It usually used a helicopter or a Caterpillar D9 tractor for transport. It
> improvised by sending three technicians on skis to "repair the fibre that got
> shot down".
>
> "These guys had to cross country ski for three days," Gill said.
>
> "[One guy] is carrying what is known as a fusion splicing kit on his
> backpack."
>
> He joked: "These guys had to go in and fix the fibre while facing gunshots
>
> "So [the] internet... [it's] more dangerous than you realise."
>
>

US hunters shoot down Google fibre

[Eugen Leitl]

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/232831,us-hunters-shoot-down-google-fibre.aspx

Repairers forced to ski in to Oregon back woods.

Google has revealed that aerial fibre links to its data centre in Oregon were
"regularly" shot down by hunters, forcing the company to put its cables
underground.

The search and advertising giant's network engineering manager Vijay Gill
told the AusNOG conference in Sydney last week that people were trying to hit
insulators on electricity distribution poles.

The poles also hosted aerially-deployed fibre connected to Google's $US600
million ($A635 million) data centre in the Dalles, a small city on the
Columbia River in the US state of Oregon.

"What people do for sport or because they're bored, they try to shoot at the
insulators," Gill said.

"I have yet to see them actually hit the insulator, but they regularly shoot
down the fibre.

"Every November when hunting season starts invariably we know that the fibre
will be shot down, so much so that we are now building an underground path
[for it]."

Gill said that on one occasion, a snowstorm and avalanche prevented Google
from transporting repairers and gear into the area of the cut.

It usually used a helicopter or a Caterpillar D9 tractor for transport. It
improvised by sending three technicians on skis to "repair the fibre that got
shot down".

"These guys had to cross country ski for three days," Gill said.

"[One guy] is carrying what is known as a fusion splicing kit on his
backpack."

He joked: "These guys had to go in and fix the fibre while facing gunshots

"So [the] internet... [it's] more dangerous than you realise."