Re: procmail, was autoresponding to Yahoo DMARC breakage
All this talk about procmail leads me to ask: - has anybody come up with a procmail recipe, or other mechanism to validate DKIM-signed mail and apply an Original-Authentication-Results header, at the MTA level? - if so, does it work with Yahoo mail directed to mailing lists? - if yes, can you share?! (So far, all the folks I know who are trying to react, have been doing so via hacks to their list management software. I'm hoping to attack the problem at a more accessible step in mail processing). -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra
Re: procmail, was autoresponding to Yahoo DMARC breakage
On 4/9/2014 9:21 PM, George Michaelson wrote: Aside from a horrid config notation. the main problem for me has always been getting sysadmins to include the changes which expose envelope-sender and envelope-recipient to procmail. Thats not procmail, its the way procmail is typically called. Without it, some stuff simply cannot be done because you don't know the values passed by protocol, only the values exposed in header. (this may have changed. I don't use it any more) It can still be a problem, although I believe LMTP fixes this problem along with the others it was designed to fix. Jack
Re: procmail, was autoresponding to Yahoo DMARC breakage
Aside from a horrid config notation. the main problem for me has always been getting sysadmins to include the changes which expose envelope-sender and envelope-recipient to procmail. Thats not procmail, its the way procmail is typically called. Without it, some stuff simply cannot be done because you don't know the values passed by protocol, only the values exposed in header. (this may have changed. I don't use it any more) On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 11:58 AM, John R. Levine wrote: > On 4/9/2014 5:45 PM, George Michaelson wrote: >> >>> procmail is a rewrite of MMDF mailfilter. badly. >>> >> > Thanks, but I believe it slightly preceded MMDF's equivalent facility. On >> the average, Allman put comparable features into sendmail sooner than I did. >> > > Procmail's user interface, if you can call it that, is beyond awful and > looks like line noise. But the code is great. > > Regards, > John Levine, jo...@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for > Dummies", > Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly
Re: procmail, was autoresponding to Yahoo DMARC breakage
On 4/9/2014 5:45 PM, George Michaelson wrote: procmail is a rewrite of MMDF mailfilter. badly. Thanks, but I believe it slightly preceded MMDF's equivalent facility. On the average, Allman put comparable features into sendmail sooner than I did. Procmail's user interface, if you can call it that, is beyond awful and looks like line noise. But the code is great. Regards, John Levine, jo...@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: autoresponding to Yahoo DMARC breakage
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:11 PM, wrote: and just how is an algorithm supposed to detect that is a single human and not a list? If the autoresponder is sane, it looks for: List-Id: North American Network Operators Group Yes, there are a lot of headers that give you a hint that a message is from a list. But the heuristic to look for the recipient's address on the To: line works so well, along with a little rate limiting, that you don't really need anything else. Regards, John Levine, jo...@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: autoresponding to Yahoo DMARC breakage
On 4/9/2014 5:45 PM, George Michaelson wrote: procmail is a rewrite of MMDF mailfilter. badly. Thanks, but I believe it slightly preceded MMDF's equivalent facility. On the average, Allman put comparable features into sendmail sooner than I did. Of course, my design's were sooo much better than his, but that seems to have hurt it's adoption... d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net
Re: autoresponding to Yahoo DMARC breakage
This highly effective trick was in the procmail example vacation script in 1991, and doubtless goes back much farther than that. It's a little dismaying to hear that there are still people writing autoresponders who don't know about it. what is procmail? The scriptable mail delivery agent that most Unix-ish systems use to sort mail at delivery time. It's a marvel of robust programming, no updates since 2001 but still works great. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=procmail&l=1 Regards, John Levine, jo...@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly
Re: autoresponding to Yahoo DMARC breakage
procmail is a rewrite of MMDF mailfilter. badly. On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Christopher Morrow wrote: > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:27 PM, John R. Levine wrote: > >>> The most "sane" out-of-mind response should only be sent *if* the > >>> out-of-mind person is named explicitly as a recipient in the RFC822 > >>> To: header. Anything To: somelist@somehost does not qualify :) > > > > > > This highly effective trick was in the procmail example vacation script > in > > 1991, and doubtless goes back much farther than that. It's a little > > dismaying to hear that there are still people writing autoresponders who > > don't know about it. > > what is procmail? > >
Re: autoresponding to Yahoo DMARC breakage
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:27 PM, John R. Levine wrote: >>> The most "sane" out-of-mind response should only be sent *if* the >>> out-of-mind person is named explicitly as a recipient in the RFC822 >>> To: header. Anything To: somelist@somehost does not qualify :) > > > This highly effective trick was in the procmail example vacation script in > 1991, and doubtless goes back much farther than that. It's a little > dismaying to hear that there are still people writing autoresponders who > don't know about it. what is procmail?
Re: autoresponding to Yahoo DMARC breakage
The most "sane" out-of-mind response should only be sent *if* the out-of-mind person is named explicitly as a recipient in the RFC822 To: header. Anything To: somelist@somehost does not qualify :) This highly effective trick was in the procmail example vacation script in 1991, and doubtless goes back much farther than that. It's a little dismaying to hear that there are still people writing autoresponders who don't know about it. Regards, John Levine, jo...@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
