Re: overages for power usage

2018-09-21 Thread Haudy Kazemi
This isn't a data center specific answer but it may help explain upstream
cost drivers that may factor into rates seen. For commercial and industrial
customers, utilities will often measure and bill power demand in kW
separate from energy in kWh. Energy may only be $0.04/kWh but demand
charges can be tens of dollars per peak kW during a bill cycle (averaged
over 15 minute intervals).

The demand fees are a result of grid capacity requirements...the utilities
need to maintain enough readily available generation capacity (turbines,
storage, etc.) at all times to handle the peak loads, even if those loads
are only seen once a year. If demand ever exceeds capacity, then brownouts
and blackouts are on the plate.

Assuming a $10/kW demand charge, a customer consuming 5000 kWh energy and
drawing a 15 min peak average of 40 kW would pay $200 for energy + $400 for
demand, for a monthly electric cost of $600. If the same customer could do
load leveling to get those peaks down to 10 kW, they'd pay a $100 demand
charge instead of $400, for a monthly electric cost of $300.

With perfectly constant loads, 5000 kWh consumed over a 30 day month (720
hours) translates to 6.94 kW. 20 amp 240v circuits can each supply up to
3.84 kW continuous using the 80% loading rules. At 208v, that drops to
3.328 kW continuous.

Said another way, with level loads, approximately 5000 kWh per month could
be pulled through two 20 amp circuits running close to their capacity
limits 24x7.

Here is an example rate sheet for Xcel Energy in the US state of Colorado:
https://www.xcelenergy.com/staticfiles/xe/Regulatory/COBusRates.pdf




On Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 21:11 Alan Hannan  wrote:

> What kind of typical overage costs have you seen when a customer/you use
> more than you've committed to?
>
> I'm especially interested in datacenter power situations, where maybe you
> sign up for 5kw or 500kw and use more than that in a given month.  Is it
> billed at the same rate?  Is it billed at a higher rate?  What's the %
> increase of the higher rate versus the regular rate?
>
> Thanks!
>


RE: overages for power usage

2018-09-21 Thread Lee Pallat
We see lots of different approaches to this, depending on the datacenter 
operator:


  1.  Customer pays for power overage at an agreed to rate that is usually the 
same as their committed rate (but could be more). This could be based on a:
 *   Per KW consumed
 *   Per KWh consumed
 *   Per Amp consumed


  1.  Customer is notified that they are over their committed draw, and asked 
to increase their commitment. Could be:
 *   Immediately
 *   After a few months of repeated overages



  1.  Nothing happens (operator is not monitoring)

From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Alan Hannan
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 7:12 PM
To: Unknown 
Subject: overages for power usage

What kind of typical overage costs have you seen when a customer/you use more 
than you've committed to?

I'm especially interested in datacenter power situations, where maybe you sign 
up for 5kw or 500kw and use more than that in a given month.  Is it billed at 
the same rate?  Is it billed at a higher rate?  What's the % increase of the 
higher rate versus the regular rate?

Thanks!


Re: overages for power usage

2018-09-21 Thread Greg Elliott
If we saw a dc customer approaching their power limit we would typically
have a conversation or message them to make sure they were aware. If they
anticipated needing more sustained power we would update their agreement
accordingly.  Sometimes it would be a one-time occurrence so we would
typically let it slide.  If they needed additional power usually it was in
10 Amps per cabinet or 5-10kW increments if in a larger footprint (cage or
suite).  We typically did not punish our customers for overages because we
wanted them to continue to grow with us and we had the additional power
capacity available.  Some colo providers will put a premium on power
overages 5-50% (I have seen all over the board) in order to make additional
revenue on power spikes, make the customer more accountable to staying
within their power commit or maybe the power is limited at that dc or on
that floor.  Hope this helps. Feel free to call with additional questions -
816-213-7731.

Greg





On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 9:13 PM Alan Hannan  wrote:

> What kind of typical overage costs have you seen when a customer/you use
> more than you've committed to?
>
> I'm especially interested in datacenter power situations, where maybe you
> sign up for 5kw or 500kw and use more than that in a given month.  Is it
> billed at the same rate?  Is it billed at a higher rate?  What's the %
> increase of the higher rate versus the regular rate?
>
> Thanks!
>


RE: overages for power usage

2018-09-21 Thread Kenny Taylor
We would typically order a 20 or 30-amp 208v circuit per rack for a flat fee 
then install a metered PDU to make sure we didn’t overload it.  The flat fee 
per-circuit seems pretty standard in the US.  Using your own metered PDU would 
help predict the usage if you’re being billed by kWH.

Kenny

From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Baldur Norddahl
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 11:34 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: overages for power usage

The fuses might match what you ordered. If you go over you might lose power due 
to a blown fuse.

When there is A and B power for redundancy, you need to make sure that one side 
can take the whole load without blowing any fuses. Otherwise you have no 
redundancy.

Regards

Baldur


fre. 21. sep. 2018 04.12 skrev Alan Hannan 
mailto:a...@routingloop.com>>:
What kind of typical overage costs have you seen when a customer/you use more 
than you've committed to?

I'm especially interested in datacenter power situations, where maybe you sign 
up for 5kw or 500kw and use more than that in a given month.  Is it billed at 
the same rate?  Is it billed at a higher rate?  What's the % increase of the 
higher rate versus the regular rate?

Thanks!


RE: overages for power usage

2018-09-21 Thread Phil Lavin
> What kind of typical overage costs have you seen when a customer/you use more 
> than you've committed to?

Telehouse London is 0.75 (GBP) per KWH of overage. Obviously it will depend on 
datacentre/country. Telehouse increase this annually at 2% above inflation 
measured against the RPI (last increase was 5.27%)


Re: overages for power usage

2018-09-21 Thread Baldur Norddahl
The fuses might match what you ordered. If you go over you might lose power
due to a blown fuse.

When there is A and B power for redundancy, you need to make sure that one
side can take the whole load without blowing any fuses. Otherwise you have
no redundancy.

Regards

Baldur


fre. 21. sep. 2018 04.12 skrev Alan Hannan :

> What kind of typical overage costs have you seen when a customer/you use
> more than you've committed to?
>
> I'm especially interested in datacenter power situations, where maybe you
> sign up for 5kw or 500kw and use more than that in a given month.  Is it
> billed at the same rate?  Is it billed at a higher rate?  What's the %
> increase of the higher rate versus the regular rate?
>
> Thanks!
>


overages for power usage

2018-09-20 Thread Alan Hannan
What kind of typical overage costs have you seen when a customer/you use
more than you've committed to?

I'm especially interested in datacenter power situations, where maybe you
sign up for 5kw or 500kw and use more than that in a given month.  Is it
billed at the same rate?  Is it billed at a higher rate?  What's the %
increase of the higher rate versus the regular rate?

Thanks!