Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[Fletcher Kittredge]

I believe there is no Federal requirement that there be a Provider of Last
Resort (POLR). State law might require it, but in at least some states
there is possible to have areas without a POLR. At the national level the
regulatory theory is that when there is sufficient competition in a market,
the POLR requirement is relieved. In any case, POLR refers only to phone
service, not Internet.


On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 1:56 PM Jeff Shultz  wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 7:43 PM david raistrick 
> wrote:
> >
> > folks,
> >
> > I've been away from nanog for a long time - and away from the ISP world
> for longer.
> >
> > Looking at a house in a new area, at&t copper splice box out front,
> bellsouth fiber markers as well (yes, that's usually just passing by. but
> it's there).  Owners since '82 said the telephone company was AT&T - but
> the New AT&T apparently no longer offers phone or internet service there.
> >
>
> It seems like _someone_ has to be the CLEC and "Carrier of Last
> Resort" for the area. Not that that means you are going to get the
> service you want.
>
> Check with the Florida Public Services Commission for what you should
> be able to expect: http://www.psc.state.fl.us/
>
>
> --
> Jeff Shultz
>
> --
> Like us on Social Media for News, Promotions, and other information!!
>
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
> _ This message
> contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual
> named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate,
> distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by
> e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail
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> not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this
> message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. _
>
>

-- 
Fletcher Kittredge
GWI
207-602-1134
www.gwi.net

Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[Brandon Martin]

On 4/10/19 1:55 PM, Jeff Shultz wrote:

It seems like_someone_  has to be the CLEC and "Carrier of Last
Resort" for the area. Not that that means you are going to get the
service you want.


Where I live, you can get AT&T POTS from the ILEC of record.  Sometimes 
it even works...when their cross box/remote terminal isn't full of 
water, has power/batteries haven't died, etc.!  They really push people 
toward their "wireless home phone" solution which is basically an LTE 
radio and ATA in a box.  It's somewhat significantly cheaper than their 
wireline POTS service.


No DSL, no HFC/cable, no consumer fiber.  T1 is available at full tariff 
rate from the 90s plus about 20 miles of line extension charges.  ISDN 
is no longer offered (or so they say).


Only wISP worth mentioning (i.e. can deliver more than 1Mbps on a good 
day) is myself (fiber coming this summer hopefully).  Basically the 
entire township is a dead zone as far as wireline goes.  I pay dearly 
for my dedicated fiber backhaul to make service worth using available.


I'm about 10 minutes from the county seat which has population over 10k 
and about 45 minutes from downtown metro of >800k.  Most gov. agencies 
have the entire county flagged as "not rural" and ineligible for 
subsidies.  These areas definitely exist.


--
Brandon Martin

Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[Jeff Shultz]

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 7:43 PM david raistrick  wrote:
>
> folks,
>
> I've been away from nanog for a long time - and away from the ISP world for 
> longer.
>
> Looking at a house in a new area, at&t copper splice box out front, bellsouth 
> fiber markers as well (yes, that's usually just passing by. but it's there).  
> Owners since '82 said the telephone company was AT&T - but the New AT&T 
> apparently no longer offers phone or internet service there.
>

It seems like _someone_ has to be the CLEC and "Carrier of Last
Resort" for the area. Not that that means you are going to get the
service you want.

Check with the Florida Public Services Commission for what you should
be able to expect: http://www.psc.state.fl.us/


--
Jeff Shultz

-- 
Like us on Social Media for News, Promotions, and other information!!

   
      
      
      














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not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this 
message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. _

Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[Mike Hammett]

Variability will always happen with small businesses, but you're more likely to 
encounter someone that won't do nasty things to your bits through a local WISP 
as opposed to a national player. It's also more likely to be consistent versus 
the variability of a mobile service. 

WISPs have been going strong for years. 

Typically when a fixed wireless customer moves to mobile wireless, they move 
back within a couple months. 




Also, *most* people don't need more than 10 megs at home, so fixed providers 
that haven't upgraded to support faster speeds aren't really at a disadvantage 
when you look at how the connection is actually used. That becomes apparent 
once you switch. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Bryan Fields"  
To: "NANOG List"  
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2019 2:28:05 PM 
Subject: Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help? 

On 3/27/19 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> https://broadbandnow.com/Florida/Micanopy?zip=32667# 
> 
> You might want to try neighboring ZIP codes to see what other fixed 
> wireless providers might be convinced to expand. 
> 
> http://svic.net/wireless-broadband-north-florida/ 

You really want to weigh what wireless can offer as many of the local players 
doing wireless lack the depth of network knowledge and are completely ignorant 
of what it takes to run an RF network. I'd independently verify your circuits 
up-time if you decide to go with a wireless ISP. 

The other sad part is the PtMP wireless technology is likely slower than an 
LTE modem with external antenna. 

The WISP's had a great time circa 2005 or so, but now that the licensed 
players have surpassed what they can offer it's hard to justify the lower 
availability of the typical WISP vs. cost. 

-- 
Bryan Fields 

727-409-1194 - Voice 
http://bryanfields.net 

Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 2:05 PM Bryan Fields  wrote:
> Looking at the typical equipment used (64 QAM, 20 MHz channel), you're going
> to have a raw bitrate of around 80 mbit/s.  Couple this with overhead and some
> inevitable interference and an access point will have about 50 mbit's of large
> frame capacity.  This is not much, and every client added will slightly reduce
> this due to multicast and supervisory signaling losses.  Each system is going
> to be Time Division Duplex (using the same channel for transmit and receive),
> so you will split this say 75/25 down/up stream.  This means you have at best
> 37.5 Mbit/s available for all clients to share, which isn't much for a 90 or
> 120 degree sector out to 10 miles (or more) depending on density.

Ahh, and there's your misunderstanding.

Most good WISPS deploy equipment which is capable of much more, with
much smaller cell sizes anymore. 256QAM is the rule, 3 Miles is a
large cell size, and with MU-MIMO enabled AP's you can get aggregate
of around 500MB/s on a single 20Mhz wide channel.  If you can find
40Mhz, it's over 1GB/s.   Of course, this depends on the exact
equipment deployed.Even with lower-end equipment most operators
end up with 200Mb/s in 40Mhz - and will often limit the number of
customers on that 200Mb/s AP to a dozen or so.

You need to be aware that the industry has grown up a LOT in the last
4-5 years, but like in any industry there are bad and good operators.
 Some do fit into the category you're describing, but from what I can
see a large portion of them do know how to deliver a lot of bandwidth.

In addition, many WISP's are now also trenching fiber to the home
where it makes sense, and deploying fixed wireless where it doesn't.
Often the fiber trenching is being driven by those sites where the
aggregate customer bandwidth needs do outstrip the capability of the
wireless network.

--
- Forrest

Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[Valdis Klētnieks]

On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 17:18:02 -0400, Bradley Burch said:
> Wisp here.
>
> Our subscribers can get 100mbps bi directional. 
>
> But we also know what we are doing.

And being honest here - what percent of WISP operators out there are in your
category, as opposed to the under-capitalized and RF experienced challenged
group that Bryan was commenting in regards to?

I'll bet a large pizza with everything but anchovies that it's in the same 
ballpark
percentage as small copper/fiber base ISPs that have people who read NANOG.

In other words, really low.

Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[Bradley Burch]

Wisp here.

Our subscribers can get 100mbps bi directional. 

But we also know what we are doing. 

Technology is getting better, so speeds are getting better.   

> On Mar 27, 2019, at 4:04 PM, Bryan Fields  wrote:
> 
>> On 3/27/19 3:30 PM, TJ Trout wrote:
>> You are way out of line, and grouping a whole industry into your experience
>> with (probably) one hack
> 
> I don't think I'm out of line, I'm relating what I've seen time and time
> again.  Most WISP's are poorly capitalized and have to run extremely lean.
> Most WISP's cannot afford to employ experienced engineering staff.  This
> causes problems in any company, let alone one where a lightning strike can
> take out an entire tower of equipment. Couple this with a lack of RF savvy
> engineering and failures are inevitable.
> 
> Looking at the website of http://pcguys.us/services.html, one can see the
> highest service offered is "5.0Mbps" and pricing is 89.99/month for this
> service.  I've got 45 Mbit/s on my Tmobile LTE card, and fully unlimited is in
> the same ballpark.
> 
> Looking at the typical equipment used (64 QAM, 20 MHz channel), you're going
> to have a raw bitrate of around 80 mbit/s.  Couple this with overhead and some
> inevitable interference and an access point will have about 50 mbit's of large
> frame capacity.  This is not much, and every client added will slightly reduce
> this due to multicast and supervisory signaling losses.  Each system is going
> to be Time Division Duplex (using the same channel for transmit and receive),
> so you will split this say 75/25 down/up stream.  This means you have at best
> 37.5 Mbit/s available for all clients to share, which isn't much for a 90 or
> 120 degree sector out to 10 miles (or more) depending on density.
> 
> 802.16 WIMAX had several things to address these issues, but it's dead and
> slow.  In the US (as this is NANOG), few operators had the 3.65 GHz licenses
> for true wimax, and CBRS is eclipsing these licensed operators shortly.
> 
> Wireless has it's place, but Point-to-Multi-Point broadband on 5 GHz is not 
> it.
> 
> -- 
> Bryan Fields
> 
> 727-409-1194 - Voice
> http://bryanfields.net

Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[Joly MacFie]

>  and CBRS is eclipsing these licensed operators shortly.

Yeah what about that?

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/google-courts-wisps-tailored-cbrs-solutions

-- 
---
Joly MacFie  218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast
--
-

Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[Bryan Fields]

On 3/27/19 3:30 PM, TJ Trout wrote:
> You are way out of line, and grouping a whole industry into your experience
> with (probably) one hack

I don't think I'm out of line, I'm relating what I've seen time and time
again.  Most WISP's are poorly capitalized and have to run extremely lean.
Most WISP's cannot afford to employ experienced engineering staff.  This
causes problems in any company, let alone one where a lightning strike can
take out an entire tower of equipment. Couple this with a lack of RF savvy
engineering and failures are inevitable.

Looking at the website of http://pcguys.us/services.html, one can see the
highest service offered is "5.0Mbps" and pricing is 89.99/month for this
service.  I've got 45 Mbit/s on my Tmobile LTE card, and fully unlimited is in
the same ballpark.

Looking at the typical equipment used (64 QAM, 20 MHz channel), you're going
to have a raw bitrate of around 80 mbit/s.  Couple this with overhead and some
inevitable interference and an access point will have about 50 mbit's of large
frame capacity.  This is not much, and every client added will slightly reduce
this due to multicast and supervisory signaling losses.  Each system is going
to be Time Division Duplex (using the same channel for transmit and receive),
so you will split this say 75/25 down/up stream.  This means you have at best
37.5 Mbit/s available for all clients to share, which isn't much for a 90 or
120 degree sector out to 10 miles (or more) depending on density.

802.16 WIMAX had several things to address these issues, but it's dead and
slow.  In the US (as this is NANOG), few operators had the 3.65 GHz licenses
for true wimax, and CBRS is eclipsing these licensed operators shortly.

Wireless has it's place, but Point-to-Multi-Point broadband on 5 GHz is not it.

-- 
Bryan Fields

727-409-1194 - Voice
http://bryanfields.net

Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[TJ Trout]

You are way out of line, and grouping a whole industry into your experience
with (probably) one hack

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 12:28 PM Bryan Fields  wrote:

> On 3/27/19 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > https://broadbandnow.com/Florida/Micanopy?zip=32667#
> >
> > You might want to try neighboring ZIP codes to see what other fixed
> > wireless providers might be convinced to expand.
> >
> > http://svic.net/wireless-broadband-north-florida/
>
> You really want to weigh what wireless can offer as many of the local
> players
> doing wireless lack the depth of network knowledge and are completely
> ignorant
> of what it takes to run an RF network.  I'd independently verify your
> circuits
> up-time if you decide to go with a wireless ISP.
>
> The other sad part is the PtMP wireless technology is likely slower than an
> LTE modem with external antenna.
>
> The WISP's had a great time circa 2005 or so, but now that the licensed
> players have surpassed what they can offer it's hard to justify the lower
> availability of the typical WISP vs. cost.
>
> --
> Bryan Fields
>
> 727-409-1194 - Voice
> http://bryanfields.net
>

Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[Bryan Fields]

On 3/27/19 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> https://broadbandnow.com/Florida/Micanopy?zip=32667#
> 
> You might want to try neighboring ZIP codes to see what other fixed
> wireless providers might be convinced to expand.
> 
> http://svic.net/wireless-broadband-north-florida/

You really want to weigh what wireless can offer as many of the local players
doing wireless lack the depth of network knowledge and are completely ignorant
of what it takes to run an RF network.  I'd independently verify your circuits
up-time if you decide to go with a wireless ISP.

The other sad part is the PtMP wireless technology is likely slower than an
LTE modem with external antenna.

The WISP's had a great time circa 2005 or so, but now that the licensed
players have surpassed what they can offer it's hard to justify the lower
availability of the typical WISP vs. cost.

-- 
Bryan Fields

727-409-1194 - Voice
http://bryanfields.net

Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[Mike Hammett]

If you're looking to start an ISP, talk to Windstream and Uniti for transport. 
I can put you in touch with people, should you be interested in going down that 
route. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "david raistrick"  
To: "NANOG List"  
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 9:41:30 PM 
Subject: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help? 


folks, 


I've been away from nanog for a long time - and away from the ISP world for 
longer. 


Looking at a house in a new area, at&t copper splice box out front, bellsouth 
fiber markers as well (yes, that's usually just passing by. but it's there). 
Owners since '82 said the telephone company was AT&T - but the New AT&T 
apparently no longer offers phone or internet service there. 


This is located in a semi-rural area between Ocala and Gainesville Florida 
(Micanopy, specifically). 


I knew the state of residential service was in sorry shape - but from what I'm 
reading, it seems to be worse than I'd though possible. 


Anyone have any suggestions for service options? I'm cool with dark fiber, if 
it comes down to that (and can be price sanely and terminated somewhere 
useful), but it seems like there -should- still be CLEC/DLECs or just plain 
resellers in business who still have access to resources that are in the 
ground. 


My business operates from home - so obviously quality service is a priority, 
and I'm willing to pay for it within reason. Business plans are certainly an 
option as well. 


I've confirmed with all of the known players via their front channels - att, 
windstream, centurylink, frontier, cox/comcast/spectre. 


Via backchannels I've confirmed that cox has fiber in the ground 1.4 miles away 
- straight shot down a dirt road (same one with the BS fiber markers). I have a 
lead on a couple of tower shots - but there's a big (for florida) ridge between 
us, and I might have to build 3-400ft to hit anything (speculatively). 


Anyone have local area or other knowledge that might be helpful? 


I'd hate to miss out on this house - it's a lot of things we love - but cell or 
sat only for internet access just isn't going to fly. 




thanks guys. 


...david 

Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[Mike Bolitho]

>
> Agreedthis is why monopolies are bad and municipal fiber is good.
>

It's not like municipal fiber has some magic spell to make last mile
affordable though. On OP's instance he would run into the same issue and
would be paying that five figure amount to bring FTTP. Municipal fiber is
only good if you happen to live where a municipality has already buried
conduit.

I'm not saying we should support monopolistic practices, but "municipal
fiber everywhere!" isn't necessarily the answer either.

>

Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[Mike Hammett]

https://broadbandnow.com/Florida/Micanopy?zip=32667# 

You might want to try neighboring ZIP codes to see what other fixed wireless 
providers might be convinced to expand. 

http://svic.net/wireless-broadband-north-florida/ 







- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "david raistrick"  
To: "NANOG List"  
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 9:41:30 PM 
Subject: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help? 


folks, 


I've been away from nanog for a long time - and away from the ISP world for 
longer. 


Looking at a house in a new area, at&t copper splice box out front, bellsouth 
fiber markers as well (yes, that's usually just passing by. but it's there). 
Owners since '82 said the telephone company was AT&T - but the New AT&T 
apparently no longer offers phone or internet service there. 


This is located in a semi-rural area between Ocala and Gainesville Florida 
(Micanopy, specifically). 


I knew the state of residential service was in sorry shape - but from what I'm 
reading, it seems to be worse than I'd though possible. 


Anyone have any suggestions for service options? I'm cool with dark fiber, if 
it comes down to that (and can be price sanely and terminated somewhere 
useful), but it seems like there -should- still be CLEC/DLECs or just plain 
resellers in business who still have access to resources that are in the 
ground. 


My business operates from home - so obviously quality service is a priority, 
and I'm willing to pay for it within reason. Business plans are certainly an 
option as well. 


I've confirmed with all of the known players via their front channels - att, 
windstream, centurylink, frontier, cox/comcast/spectre. 


Via backchannels I've confirmed that cox has fiber in the ground 1.4 miles away 
- straight shot down a dirt road (same one with the BS fiber markers). I have a 
lead on a couple of tower shots - but there's a big (for florida) ridge between 
us, and I might have to build 3-400ft to hit anything (speculatively). 


Anyone have local area or other knowledge that might be helpful? 


I'd hate to miss out on this house - it's a lot of things we love - but cell or 
sat only for internet access just isn't going to fly. 




thanks guys. 


...david 

Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[Bryan Fields]

On 3/26/19 10:41 PM, david raistrick wrote:

> Looking at a house in a new area, at&t copper splice box out front,
> bellsouth fiber markers as well (yes, that's usually just passing by. but
> it's there).  Owners since '82 said the telephone company was AT&T - but
> the New AT&T apparently no longer offers phone or internet service there.
> 
> This is located in a semi-rural area between Ocala and Gainesville Florida
> (Micanopy, specifically).
>
> I'd hate to miss out on this house - it's a lot of things we love - but
> cell or sat only for internet access just isn't going to fly.

Order the service and have it installed before you close.  Test it and ensure
it's good.  If the buyer won't allow it, walk.

You _cannot_ trust some carrier to tell you what you have available before
it's actually turned up.  Time and time again I see people close on a home
where Frontier or Cox or whoever says they have fiber there, and then after
the move in, 4-8 week later you find out they don't have anything.  Across the
road, yes, but all you can get is POTS and IDSL/ISDN.

Yep, is 2019 ISDN/IDSL is the only broadband service some people can get.
It's also going to be 100+ USD per month.

-- 
Bryan Fields

727-409-1194 - Voice
http://bryanfields.net

Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[Ross Tajvar]

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 12:30 AM Mike Bolitho  wrote:

> Agreedthis is why monopolies are bad and municipal fiber is good.
>>
>
> It's not like municipal fiber has some magic spell to make last mile
> affordable though. On OP's instance he would run into the same issue and
> would be paying that five figure amount to bring FTTP. Municipal fiber is
> only good if you happen to live where a municipality has already buried
> conduit.
>
> I'm not saying we should support monopolistic practices, but "municipal
> fiber everywhere!" isn't necessarily the answer either.
>

That's fair. What I really meant, and didn't take the time to think through
and express properly, was this: financing a large fiber buildout like it's
a long-term investment, rather than something that should make back its
capital cost in 1-3 years, gets fiber to more people. Most commercial ISPs
do not want to do this because they want immediate profit. Municipalities
are used to making long-term infrastructure investments (like bridges,
etc.) and are more amenable to doing it with fiber.

Even if there were a municipality which had done a fiber buildout near OP's
desired house, he may have still run into the same issue of no fiber being
close enough to be financially viable. But the more fiber plant there is,
the less likely that scenario becomes.

>

Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[Joly MacFie]

Is there any chance LEO operators like OneWeb etc will make a difference on
this front, and, if so, when?

joly

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 11:57 PM Ross Tajvar  wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 11:34 PM david raistrick 
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 11:29 PM Ross Tajvar  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> But most likely you're just out of luck.
>>>
>>
>> it's really amazing that this is still the case, with our effectively
>> internet based economy now.
>>
>>
>
> Agreedthis is why monopolies are bad and municipal fiber is good.
>
>>

-- 
---
Joly MacFie  218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast
--
-

Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[Ross Tajvar]

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 11:34 PM david raistrick  wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 11:29 PM Ross Tajvar  wrote:
>
>
>> But most likely you're just out of luck.
>>
>
> it's really amazing that this is still the case, with our effectively
> internet based economy now.
>
>

Agreedthis is why monopolies are bad and municipal fiber is good.

>

RE: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[Ray Van Dolson]

Have been through something similar recently with CenturyLink extending fiber 
service to a residence where only 3Mbps DSL was available previously.

Total costs ended up being in the mid five figures range (though I don’t know 
how far they needed to extend fiber).  We amortized over a multi-year term on 
top of an already four figure MRC.  50Mbps service in the end.

Probably not worth it for most.

Ray

From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Ross Tajvar
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 8:29 PM
To: david raistrick 
Cc: North American Network Operators' Group 
Subject: Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

This is a common problem with no good solution. Fiber buildouts are almost 
always insanely expensive. If you can get one at a more reasonable cost, or 
more likely if you can sign a contract of a sufficient length to convince the 
carrier to subsidize it, you may be able to get good service that way.

The tower thing could also work if you want to spend the time/money on building 
and maintaining it. And also provided you can get a permit, etc.

But most likely you're just out of luck.

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 10:44 PM david raistrick 
mailto:dr...@icantclick.org>> wrote:
folks,

I've been away from nanog for a long time - and away from the ISP world for 
longer.

Looking at a house in a new area, at&t copper splice box out front, bellsouth 
fiber markers as well (yes, that's usually just passing by. but it's there).  
Owners since '82 said the telephone company was AT&T - but the New AT&T 
apparently no longer offers phone or internet service there.

This is located in a semi-rural area between Ocala and Gainesville Florida 
(Micanopy, specifically).

I knew the state of residential service was in sorry shape - but from what I'm 
reading, it seems to be worse than I'd though possible.

Anyone have any suggestions for service options?  I'm cool with dark fiber, if 
it comes down to that (and can be price sanely and terminated somewhere 
useful), but it seems like there -should- still be CLEC/DLECs or just plain 
resellers in business who still have access to resources that are in the ground.

My business operates from home - so obviously quality service is a priority, 
and I'm willing to pay for it within reason.  Business plans are certainly an 
option as well.

I've confirmed with all of the known players via their front channels - att, 
windstream, centurylink, frontier, cox/comcast/spectre.

Via backchannels I've confirmed that cox has fiber in the ground 1.4 miles away 
- straight shot down a dirt road (same one with the BS fiber markers).   I have 
a lead on a couple of tower shots - but there's a big (for florida) ridge 
between us, and I might have to build 3-400ft to hit anything (speculatively).

Anyone have local area or other knowledge that might be helpful?

I'd hate to miss out on this house - it's a lot of things we love - but cell or 
sat only for internet access just isn't going to fly.


thanks guys.

...david

Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[david raistrick]

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 11:29 PM Ross Tajvar  wrote:


> But most likely you're just out of luck.
>

it's really amazing that this is still the case, with our effectively
internet based economy now.

Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[Ross Tajvar]

This is a common problem with no good solution. Fiber buildouts are almost
always insanely expensive. If you can get one at a more reasonable cost, or
more likely if you can sign a contract of a sufficient length to convince
the carrier to subsidize it, you may be able to get good service that way.

The tower thing could also work if you want to spend the time/money on
building and maintaining it. And also provided you can get a permit, etc.

But most likely you're just out of luck.


On Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 10:44 PM david raistrick  wrote:

> folks,
>
> I've been away from nanog for a long time - and away from the ISP world
> for longer.
>
> Looking at a house in a new area, at&t copper splice box out front,
> bellsouth fiber markers as well (yes, that's usually just passing by. but
> it's there).  Owners since '82 said the telephone company was AT&T - but
> the New AT&T apparently no longer offers phone or internet service there.
>
> This is located in a semi-rural area between Ocala and Gainesville Florida
> (Micanopy, specifically).
>
> I knew the state of residential service was in sorry shape - but from what
> I'm reading, it seems to be worse than I'd though possible.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions for service options?  I'm cool with dark
> fiber, if it comes down to that (and can be price sanely and terminated
> somewhere useful), but it seems like there -should- still be CLEC/DLECs or
> just plain resellers in business who still have access to resources that
> are in the ground.
>
> My business operates from home - so obviously quality service is a
> priority, and I'm willing to pay for it within reason.  Business plans are
> certainly an option as well.
>
> I've confirmed with all of the known players via their front channels -
> att, windstream, centurylink, frontier, cox/comcast/spectre.
>
> Via backchannels I've confirmed that cox has fiber in the ground 1.4 miles
> away - straight shot down a dirt road (same one with the BS fiber markers).
>   I have a lead on a couple of tower shots - but there's a big (for
> florida) ridge between us, and I might have to build 3-400ft to hit
> anything (speculatively).
>
> Anyone have local area or other knowledge that might be helpful?
>
> I'd hate to miss out on this house - it's a lot of things we love - but
> cell or sat only for internet access just isn't going to fly.
>
>
> thanks guys.
>
> ...david
>
>

residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?

[david raistrick]

folks,

I've been away from nanog for a long time - and away from the ISP world for
longer.

Looking at a house in a new area, at&t copper splice box out front,
bellsouth fiber markers as well (yes, that's usually just passing by. but
it's there).  Owners since '82 said the telephone company was AT&T - but
the New AT&T apparently no longer offers phone or internet service there.

This is located in a semi-rural area between Ocala and Gainesville Florida
(Micanopy, specifically).

I knew the state of residential service was in sorry shape - but from what
I'm reading, it seems to be worse than I'd though possible.

Anyone have any suggestions for service options?  I'm cool with dark fiber,
if it comes down to that (and can be price sanely and terminated somewhere
useful), but it seems like there -should- still be CLEC/DLECs or just plain
resellers in business who still have access to resources that are in the
ground.

My business operates from home - so obviously quality service is a
priority, and I'm willing to pay for it within reason.  Business plans are
certainly an option as well.

I've confirmed with all of the known players via their front channels -
att, windstream, centurylink, frontier, cox/comcast/spectre.

Via backchannels I've confirmed that cox has fiber in the ground 1.4 miles
away - straight shot down a dirt road (same one with the BS fiber markers).
  I have a lead on a couple of tower shots - but there's a big (for
florida) ridge between us, and I might have to build 3-400ft to hit
anything (speculatively).

Anyone have local area or other knowledge that might be helpful?

I'd hate to miss out on this house - it's a lot of things we love - but
cell or sat only for internet access just isn't going to fly.


thanks guys.

...david