Re: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Sympols

[JohnK]

Build a Tesla Coil in the basement?

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jeff Walton 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2016 2:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Sympols


  Lots of basements with radon to spare...  Too bad you can't collect that. 


   Original message 
  From: A_Nonamus  
  Date: 3/26/2016 10:17 PM (GMT-06:00) 
  To: neonixie-l  
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Sympols 


  I understand that with a half-life of 3.8 days, getting a discharge tube of 
any appreciable size full of it would be problematic to put it mildly. But is 
it possible to closely mimic its spectrum and thus make a "simulated" radon 
tube?

  On Saturday, March 26, 2016 at 11:10:28 AM UTC-7, NeonJohn wrote:
I did leave Rn out but not unintentionally.  I'm not sure enough Rn has 
ever been collected in one spot to fill the letters Rn.  If that was 
possible and the contents added to the tubing, viewing the "Rn" would be 
your dying wish!


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RE: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Sympols

[Tidak Ada]

Interesting, but € 75,- is a bit expensive……

 

If I ever could obtain Pb-210.

 

eric

 

 

Van: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] Namens 
John Rehwinkel
Verzonden: zaterdag 26 maart 2016 17:31
Aan: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Onderwerp: Re: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Sympols

 

Please can somebody trell me where to get those 'neon'-letter chemical symbols 
of noble gases ? I gXeot the symbols for He, Kr and Xe, but are missing just 
those  for Ne and Ar. Futher tha He symbol is told me to be outgassed.

 

I'm guessing you're also missing Ra, but so is everybody else :).

 

Those letters are available from Max Whitby at

 

http://www.periodictable.co.uk/

 

and Jürgen Bauer at

 

http://www.smart-elements.com/

 

- John

 

 

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RE: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Symbols

[Tidak Ada]

May it be there is a getter like material that can produce RN, like the Pb-210 
John mentioned?

 

eric

 

Van: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] Namens 
Jeff Walton
Verzonden: zondag 27 maart 2016 5:31
Aan: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Onderwerp: Re: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Sympols

 

Lots of basements with radon to spare...  Too bad you can't collect that. 



 Original message 
From: A_Nonamus  
Date: 3/26/2016 10:17 PM (GMT-06:00) 
To: neonixie-l  
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Sympols 

I understand that with a half-life of 3.8 days, getting a discharge tube of any 
appreciable size full of it would be problematic to put it mildly. But is it 
possible to closely mimic its spectrum and thus make a "simulated" radon tube?

On Saturday, March 26, 2016 at 11:10:28 AM UTC-7, NeonJohn wrote:

I did leave Rn out but not unintentionally.  I'm not sure enough Rn has 
ever been collected in one spot to fill the letters Rn.  If that was 
possible and the contents added to the tubing, viewing the "Rn" would be 
your dying wish!

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Re: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Symbols

[franetic]

I don't think Pb-210 (being a decay product of Rn-222) will ever produce 
Rn. Perhaps the best bet (and still very unfeasible) is Radium Ra-226 which 
decays directly into Rn-222 via alpha decay with a half life of 1.6 kyears. 
(That's how the first emission spectrum of Rn was obtained.) That said, you 
would need quite a bit of Ra-226 to keep enough Rn in your tube, as half of 
Rn will decay in less than 4 days. 

Best,
Damir

On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 1:06:17 PM UTC+2, Tidak Ada wrote:
>
> May it be there is a getter like material that can produce RN, like the 
> Pb-210 John mentioned?
>
>  
>
> eric
>
>  
>
> *Van:* neoni...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
> neoni...@googlegroups.com ] *Namens *Jeff Walton
> *Verzonden:* zondag 27 maart 2016 5:31
> *Aan:* neoni...@googlegroups.com 
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Sympols
>
>  
>
> Lots of basements with radon to spare...  Too bad you can't collect that. 
>
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: A_Nonamus > 
> Date: 3/26/2016 10:17 PM (GMT-06:00) 
> To: neonixie-l > 
> Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Sympols 
>
> I understand that with a half-life of 3.8 days, getting a discharge tube 
> of any appreciable size full of it would be problematic to put it mildly. 
> But is it possible to closely mimic its spectrum and thus make a 
> "simulated" radon tube?
>
> On Saturday, March 26, 2016 at 11:10:28 AM UTC-7, NeonJohn wrote:
>
> I did leave Rn out but not unintentionally.  I'm not sure enough Rn has 
> ever been collected in one spot to fill the letters Rn.  If that was 
> possible and the contents added to the tubing, viewing the "Rn" would be 
> your dying wish!
>
> -- 
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> "neonixie-l" group.
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>  
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> .
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[neonixie-l] Re: Early ZM1000 nixie failure

[franetic]

Thanks to all for the replies. I don't think I picked a wrong value 
resistor (there are only 3 values of through-hole resistors in my box), so 
I'll go with the rogue tube explanation. The affected tube didn't glow any 
brighter, nor did it glow in a different color. Anyway, I cannot check the 
affected tube (I don't have the clock in question), I simply shipped a 
replacement tube to the customer. 

Best,
Damir

On Saturday, March 26, 2016 at 11:50:15 PM UTC+1, marta_kson wrote:
>
> Can You see if the mercury giver has released it's content? Did the failed 
> tube show any sign of a different color? I have a Telefunken ZM1210 where 
> the giver has not melted as it should. That tube lights up in a much more 
> reddish color than the OK ones. If there was an overcurrent or too long 
> time slot for just that tube of any significance it should have been so 
> much brighter that You had noticed something was wrong.
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Symbols

[NeonJohn]

On 03/27/2016 07:06 AM, Tidak Ada wrote:
> May it be there is a getter like material that can produce RN, like the 
> Pb-210 John mentioned?

Radium is the source of radon.  The problem is its intense
radioactivity.  Indeed, a gram of radium defines the Curie, the
traditional measurement of radioactivity.

The problem, other than the high radiation, with placing Ra in an
enclosed vessel is that it quickly reaches secular equilibrium with its
decay products down to Pb-210.  In a few decades, it reaches complete
equilibrium with its daughters as the Pb-210 decays into stable lead as
rapidly as it is formed.

To answer another question, the emission spectrum looks similar to
krypton so the glow discharge would probably be indistinguishable.

I looked at the Wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radon
(surprisingly good if you ignore most of the health effects).  I was
surprised to find that Lord Rutherford isolated enough of the gas in
1908 to get its discharge spectrum.

According to the Wiki article, in high enough concentrations, Radon is
also radioluminescent, either green or yellow, probably depending on the
concentration.

To address another comment, Pb-210 is available in regulatory exempt
quantities (5uCi I think) from Spectrum Sources.  Higher quantities if
one obtains a license.

John


-- 
John DeArmond
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.tnduction.com<-- THE source for induction heaters
http://www.neon-john.com<-- email from here
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- Best damned Blog on the net
https://www.etsy.com/shop/BarbraJoanOriginals  <-- Affordable Fine Art
Originals
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Re: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Symbols

[John Rehwinkel]

> Radium is the source of radon.

So are some isotopes of thorium.

>  The problem, other than the high radiation, with placing Ra in an
> enclosed vessel is that it quickly reaches secular equilibrium with its
> decay products down to Pb-210.

Oh, there's another problem.  Various phases of the decay chain release alpha 
particles, which
are helium nuclei, and stable.  For each radon atom created (which only last a 
few days), ultimately
six helium atoms are also created.  So you won't ever reach equilibrium, the 
helium will rapidly overtake
the radon, and the pressure will (extremely) gradually rise as the helium 
accumulates.

> To answer another question, the emission spectrum looks similar to
> krypton so the glow discharge would probably be indistinguishable.

Also true, but as I explained above, you'd be looking at a helium discharge 
anyway.

> According to the Wiki article, in high enough concentrations, Radon is
> also radioluminescent, either green or yellow, probably depending on the
> concentration.

Cool!

- John

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Re: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Symbols

[NeonJohn]

On 03/27/2016 10:56 AM, John Rehwinkel wrote:

>>  The problem, other than the high radiation, with placing Ra in an
>> enclosed vessel is that it quickly reaches secular equilibrium with its
>> decay products down to Pb-210.
> 
> Oh, there's another problem.  Various phases of the decay chain release alpha 
> particles, which
> are helium nuclei, and stable.  For each radon atom created (which only last 
> a few days), ultimately
> six helium atoms are also created.  So you won't ever reach equilibrium, the 
> helium will rapidly overtake
> the radon, and the pressure will (extremely) gradually rise as the helium 
> accumulates.

Yes one would reach nuclear equilibrium.  The helium buildup is a
separate phenomena than the nuclear decay.  The helium would grow to
dominate the emission spectrum but the Radon lines will be there too.
That's why I estimate that the discharge would look like Krypton.

As I would start with an evacuated tube, the helium pressure buildup
would take decades to reach atmospheric pressure, depending on the
quantity of radium present.

I have (well, had.  It got stolen.) a 10mCi Ra Brachytherapy source.
Tiny gold capsule over 50 years old.  Still no leakage or helium bulge -
at least until it got stolen.

John


-- 
John DeArmond
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.tnduction.com<-- THE source for induction heaters
http://www.neon-john.com<-- email from here
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- Best damned Blog on the net
https://www.etsy.com/shop/BarbraJoanOriginals  <-- Affordable Fine Art
Originals
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RE: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Symbols

[Tidak Ada]

I misinterpreted John’s posting. Sorry, John

 

Van: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] Namens 
franetic
Verzonden: zondag 27 maart 2016 14:36
Aan: neonixie-l
Onderwerp: Re: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Symbols

 

I don't think Pb-210 (being a decay product of Rn-222) will ever produce Rn. 
Perhaps the best bet (and still very unfeasible) is Radium Ra-226 which decays 
directly into Rn-222 via alpha decay with a half life of 1.6 kyears. (That's 
how the first emission spectrum of Rn was obtained.) That said, you would need 
quite a bit of Ra-226 to keep enough Rn in your tube, as half of Rn will decay 
in less than 4 days. 

 

Best,

Damir

On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 1:06:17 PM UTC+2, Tidak Ada wrote:

May it be there is a getter like material that can produce RN, like the Pb-210 
John mentioned?

 

eric

 

Van: neoni...@googlegroups.com   [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com 
 ] Namens Jeff Walton
Verzonden: zondag 27 maart 2016 5:31
Aan: neoni...@googlegroups.com  
Onderwerp: Re: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Sympols

 

Lots of basements with radon to spare...  Too bad you can't collect that. 



 Original message 
From: A_Nonamus  > 
Date: 3/26/2016 10:17 PM (GMT-06:00) 
To: neonixie-l  > 
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Sympols 

I understand that with a half-life of 3.8 days, getting a discharge tube of any 
appreciable size full of it would be problematic to put it mildly. But is it 
possible to closely mimic its spectrum and thus make a "simulated" radon tube?

On Saturday, March 26, 2016 at 11:10:28 AM UTC-7, NeonJohn wrote:

I did leave Rn out but not unintentionally.  I'm not sure enough Rn has 
ever been collected in one spot to fill the letters Rn.  If that was 
possible and the contents added to the tubing, viewing the "Rn" would be 
your dying wish!

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