[neonixie-l] Re: Just got 80 new Burroughs PIXIE B-9012 tubes, if any interest
Walter Always interested in new tubes for clocks. here is the data sheet link. http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/dat_arch/Burroughs_Bulletin_1034A.pdf On Tuesday, 21 October 2014 08:06:34 UTC+11, Walter2 wrote: These are the same glass diameter as the common B-5092/8421 nixies (not as tall), but instead have a circle of 10 digits on the face, 0-9 clockwise, with zero at the top. Unlike Nixies, more than one digit can be on at the same time (if cathode resistors are used, rather than a common anode resistor). They need only +150VDC, and very little current. The digit is small, but the appearance is very interesting, like a Dekatron, but with digits rather than dots. I don't ever recall seeing them used in any commercial gear, but presumably they did appear someplace, maybe another list member has that info. They can be used as status displays to show up to 10 data items at the same time. They can almost be used as a single tube for hours as well, because two digits can be on at one time (1+0 to show 10, but NOT 1+1 to show 11, 1+2 to show 12, for example), a novel and more clock-face-like appearance, but not really ideal. The base is a non-standard 13 pin (3 center pins, outer circle of 10), so I have no hope for sockets, but clearly loose pins will work fine to a PCB. Because the numbers appear to race around the outer diameter of the tube when cycled, they would provide very attractive seconds/minutes displays in clocks. Driving is dead simple, ground the cathode to light, just as with regular Nixies, but less current is required (larger resistor). Because more than one can be on at a time, fading is possible to enhance motion. There are also simliar tubes from Philips in europe, but their drive is quite complex, and they are not interchangeable with these. Anyway, I will have them posted up to Sphere Research shortly, or you can just email me for more details. I have the factory data sheet as well, and I will email the PDF to anybody interested. They will be quite cheap, but there's only this one single batch available, no more stock after this, and frankly I was surprised to get these. The appearance of this batch is excellent. all the best, walter ( walter2 -at- sphere.bc.ca ) sphere research corp. ( www.sphere.bc.ca ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/af931bfc-35a0-4df6-8b35-11a1f4f7f2de%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[neonixie-l] Re: IN-3 Neon Bulbs
Spencer. As per Jon's post - there is a little arrow at the bottom of the glass envelope that helps to determine the polarity of he IN-3s. Arrow points to the cathode. Details are on the data sheet (in rRussian) on Dieters web site as to which is cathode and which is the anode. Did you measure the strike and maintain voltages of the IN-3? I've found wide variations in strike and maintain voltages even within the same box of 100 tubes. Typical operation in the data sheet is 0.8ma with a low of 0.2ma and a high of 1ma. If your IN-3s maintaining voltage is at spec (55v), then by my maths you are dropping 125v over the 220k anode resister which is a 0.5ma current. This is within tolerances but on the low side. I have tubes that have maintaining voltages as low as 36v and some other are as high as 70v. If you run the math you will find that you can lower the anode resister to 180K, and even lower for tubes with higher maintaining voltages (probably best not to go below 150K!). I try and run all of my IN-3s as close to the 0.8ma spec as possible - but this is for consistency in a ring circuit where I am also trying to get all of the tubes strike/maintain voltages aligned. Note even at 0.9 to 1ma I still got flicker and coverage variations in some tubes, but higher current did help with getting full plasma coverage. My own experience is that some IN-3s flicker and the plasma can even form at the back rather than the front of the tube before returning to the front again. I have also had bulbs where the plasma forms on the wire lead at the bottom of the tube. In some applications the flickering is endearing, it others, such as ring circuits its down right annoying negating the circuit. Like John S, I've also aged my IN-3s and it does not seem to make much difference - there are always some that just want to flicker. If you age the IN-3s then after a couple of hours these flickering ones will become visible to you. Having said this I have aged IN-3 with a couple hundred hours of ring circuit use that decided to flicker and become unreliable - go figure. From what I have observed, increasing the strike voltage or (minor) current changes has no impact, but higher current do get better glow coverage. There also appears to be no correlation when it comes to flicker between the strike and maintaining voltage differences between tubes. Having said this beware of tubes which have a high strike and maintain voltages as from examination I often found these to have some visible internal physical variation to a normal IN-3 and of course they were no good for a ring circuit. From aging several hundreds of these IN-3s and building 2 ring-counter clocks, to me it just looks like there are differences in the manufacture between tubes. IN-3s look to have wide tolerances between and within the same box. Ive discarded 80% of some boxes and less than 10% of others due to variations in performance - but again this is for ring circuits. In your application you are using the IN-3 as a colon separator. If it worries you replace it. If not you can call it an extra feature. One of my fellow workmates really likes the flickering of one lock I have at work, which takes the form of the plasma pulsing, she says it has personality. On Sunday, 2 March 2014 00:17:46 UTC+11, Spencer wrote: Hello All! I bought these for the nixie clocks, http://www.ebay.com/itm/251373901401, and they will work for a bit then start flickering all over in the tube, and lighting up in odd places and not where it should be lighting up! An example can be found at, http://imgur.com/O32rVBi . Only the left side is light up, the little light has a mind of its own and has traveled to the back of the tube. I am feeding the little guy +180V and the anode resistor is 220K. I am not sure if its too much current or what not. Several have done this to me. Suggestions? Thanks! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/62f4a52a-b22a-466e-b3ad-fca353d6100a%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [neonixie-l] How exactly does mercury increase Nixie lifetime?
Hello From my chemistry days I think there is a complementary explanation to the coating of cathodes with Mercury and for mercury vapor inside the Nixie. It takes less energy to energize mercury atoms than energizing the atoms in the penning mix (Neon and Argon). This principle also led to the development of the fluorescent tube. In this way the mercury atoms form part of the thermionic emission releasing electrons with UV wavelenghths which collide with and ionize the noble gas atoms inside the tube to form the resulting plasma by the process of impact ionization. As a result of avalanche ionization the ionized gas increases its conductivity rapidly and a current is able to flow. Mercury also has the benefit of stabilizing the ionization voltage as well as increasing the life of the cathode. On Thursday, 13 February 2014 19:32:10 UTC+11, Dalibor wrote: Hi, the mercury adheres to cathode surface and because its molecule is heavy, it is less likely to be relieved from the cathode by electrons bombarding the cathode (compared to relatively light molecules of Fe, Ni, Cr - stainless steel).. The lifetime of mercury doped nixies is 200.000 hrs, tubes without mercury have 5.000 hrs (MTBF value from datasheets). This is a theory.. The lifetime otself depends on many other parametrs, eg. size of the hole in anode grid or shape of the ceramic insulators between numbers.. My experimental tube without mercury is at ~1500 hrs, no signs of metal deposit on glass, some deposit of shiny metal on ceramic insulators - the resistivity is not measurable yet (300 Mohms). photo: http://tinyurl.com/n5o5bau Dalibor 2014-02-13 8:44 GMT+01:00 Kevin Keith krfk...@gmail.com javascript:: I've seen references and claims to this fact, but never an explanation of the exact mechanism? So, with that said, how *does* mercury actually reduce cathode poisoning/sputtering damage? Are there any potential alternatives? Would something like gallium work? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send an email to neoni...@googlegroups.comjavascript:. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/61e65e8a-43ac-4cc4-824b-04c7f4039731%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Dalibor Farny phone: +420 724 321 571 http://www.daliborfarny.com blog: http://dalibor.farny.cz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/c463dde4-e49f-4be6-bbe3-895526ef57e9%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: B7971 NOS or simply old
From my correspondence with the seller via Ebay he displays sincerity and recently updated his listing I suspect to reflect his own uncertainty as to the new old stock vs new from the package status of these tubes. His update to his listing mirrored our ebay conversation, which in my experience is a good indicator of people's good intent. The suspect ones don't reply or are not interested in a genuine conversation about the items in question. The additional photo that was added showing a lit tube, does add some credence to the claim that all the tubes are tested and work. I have bought tubes that when delivered do not work, and a statement in the listing that the tube is tested and works will at least satisfy the Ebay commissars should a tube actually prove faulty and you need a refund. Like others, I view the tubes as used, in that they have what we have all taken from the example of our own tubes, to be spluttering around the cathodes. I have no idea what a NOS B7971 would be worth as I have never seen one, but we all pay attention to the price of traded tubes, as I suspect most of us are holding quantities of tubes for various projects if not investment. I wished him luck with his auction, will personally not be buying b7971s at those prices and am in no way associated with the auction in case anyone is interested. On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:13:40 PM UTC+10, Nick wrote: Yes - to clarify he was a bona fide member of neonixie-l (don't think he is any more) and I too have bought from him in the past - he seems to be a straight guy. When tubes are lit after a while in storage they often behave slightly differently until burnt in - could be just that effect. The clean tubes I was referring to about from RIchardson - NL 5440As - have no markings at all - they're the ones that would have been white labelled. The interesting thing about 7971s is that not that many were made (anyone got actual numbers, or is that also here-say?) yet there are many variants, all of which appear to be totally reliable/built like tanks - why mess with something that obviously works so well Has anyone ever had one fail in operation (assuming it was being run within spec)? Nick On Tuesday, 28 May 2013 02:07:27 UTC+1, Jeff Thomas wrote: The seller of these tubes is Patrick, and was a member of the old yahoo neonixie-L (user=arcpat1 from as early as '04), although I don't know if he's posted to the replacement google list. Yeah, IMHO these B7971's are just washed-and-recycled tubes in the stock styro carrier. It really does not matter as long as they're sold with a guarantee of all segments being functional. $175 is certainly a lofty goal for as-is. He may sell some if others squatting on tubes don't jump at the opportunity to undercut his pricing. Regards, Jeff -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/3b49dee9-c543-473d-9e0d-9328dc467562%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-GB. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: IN-13 tubes for your project
On par with the market. I recently paid 2.76 delivered for 30. On Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:44:00 AM UTC+10, Vitaly Nart wrote: 2.7 USD ( including shipping) среда, 22 мая 2013 г., 11:51:58 UTC+3 пользователь NoCampersFluffy написал: How much? On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:50:03 AM UTC+10, Vitaly Nart wrote: Good day to all members! I am glad to offer you a new(factory boxed) IN-13 tubes for you projects. Our company has a quantitty of 900 tubes and can give a very cheap price for the members of neonixie group. All tubes are checked and you will get free shipping. If you have questions, please dont hesitate to contact us. Sincerely yours, Vitaly -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/0b2cef64-45b5-413b-a63c-1d54fdec9fc0%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-GB. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: IN-13 tubes for your project
How much? On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:50:03 AM UTC+10, Vitaly Nart wrote: Good day to all members! I am glad to offer you a new(factory boxed) IN-13 tubes for you projects. Our company has a quantitty of 900 tubes and can give a very cheap price for the members of neonixie group. All tubes are checked and you will get free shipping. If you have questions, please dont hesitate to contact us. Sincerely yours, Vitaly -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/8819539a-70da-44f3-9d3c-8185da54%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-GB. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: One reason for blue dots in Nixie tubes found - anode mesh not connected to anode!
On Monday, April 29, 2013 1:37:17 AM UTC+10, jrehwin wrote: That unattached mesh you have, may be floating at a voltage around 50V, and alter the current path (?). I believe the blue dot indicates a point of higher than usual current density. I suspect Mike's hypothesis is valid. If you make an ordinary linear neon tube and fill it with neon, it glows red, as you'd expect. If you introduce mercury into it, the red glow is replaced with the blue glow of mercury. So something about the normal operation of neon tubes favors the mercury glow. Nixies favor the neon glow somehow, and the difference may indeed be current density. I suppose one useful test would be to take such a linear mercury/neon sign tube and run it on various currents and see if the red neon glow reappears at some point when reducing the current. - John -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/5a-p6t0xx0oJ. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Question for all you electronic engineers out there.
Nick I switched to using toner on press-n-peel (pnp) rather than photo, magazine or other glossy papers. I only make minor trace repairs with a permanent marker using pnp, compared to previous papers that I used. I've used a couple of different laser printers and all work great. I select 1,200dpi on the laser printer as well as making the toner a bit darker as I've found it gives better results. If you use an iron make sure to pay special attention to the sides and corners of boards that are bigger than a couple of centimeters. It can take a long time for the toner to melt and bond properly. Easily 5 minutes for larger boards which are not continuously heated under the heel of the iron. I've recently bought a small, cheap tee shirt press which gives even heat and pressure. Pressing down hard with a hot iron, while trying to keep an even heat and pressure gets a bit tiresome after 5 minutes, while Ive found the swing arm tee-shirt press is easy to use. Ive also switched to ammonium persulphate as an enchant as it is faster and I've stained too many of my cloths with ferric chloride. To etch, I use two containers one inside the other. In the inner container I put the mixed hot etchant, while filling the outer container to a shallow depth with boiling water to keep the etchant hot. I don't use a bubble setup. I just wear a pair of thick industrial gloves (for the chemicals and heat) and I use a small piece of cloth t gently wipe the etchant over the boards. I've found this method works fast and caters well for irregular copper depth on boards. I also find that I never over etch as I'm always handling the board. That was a good tip from Nichk and Mike regarding sodium/potassium persulfate, I'll be switching when my current stocks of ammonium persulphate run out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/50lp8aZfVHMJ. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: IN-3 Lead Identification
Hello IN-3's have a little arrow imprinted into the glass near where the wires exit at the bottom of the bulb. The arrow points to the anode. On Monday, March 4, 2013 8:10:20 AM UTC+11, Smiffy wrote: As I read precious little Russian and can't figure this from the datasheet, could someone enlighten me as to which is the anode and the cathode in an IN-3? I'm assuming that the cathode is the silver electrode with the hole in the middle and the anode the smaller, grey, electrode - but don't want to commit this to an Eagle part and end up getting the entire board of 21 tubes wrong! (They will be mounted flat to the board, leads bent through 90 degrees. This is for a BCD clock.) Cheers M -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/sDwIq1KGeEYJ. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: IN-3 Lead Identification
Woops wrong way round. The arrow points to the Cathode. Sorry. On Monday, March 4, 2013 10:11:39 PM UTC+11, NoCampersFluffy wrote: Hello IN-3's have a little arrow imprinted into the glass near where the wires exit at the bottom of the bulb. The arrow points to the anode. On Monday, March 4, 2013 8:10:20 AM UTC+11, Smiffy wrote: As I read precious little Russian and can't figure this from the datasheet, could someone enlighten me as to which is the anode and the cathode in an IN-3? I'm assuming that the cathode is the silver electrode with the hole in the middle and the anode the smaller, grey, electrode - but don't want to commit this to an Eagle part and end up getting the entire board of 21 tubes wrong! (They will be mounted flat to the board, leads bent through 90 degrees. This is for a BCD clock.) Cheers M -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/NzlRx4BV1bEJ. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: IN-3 Lead Identification
If you grab the datasheet from Dieter's site, which has the extended datasheet for an IN-3, the explanation for the arrow is listed just under the diagram on page 2. The arrow points to the Cathode. On Monday, March 4, 2013 10:17:11 PM UTC+11, NoCampersFluffy wrote: Woops wrong way round. The arrow points to the Cathode. Sorry. On Monday, March 4, 2013 10:11:39 PM UTC+11, NoCampersFluffy wrote: Hello IN-3's have a little arrow imprinted into the glass near where the wires exit at the bottom of the bulb. The arrow points to the anode. On Monday, March 4, 2013 8:10:20 AM UTC+11, Smiffy wrote: As I read precious little Russian and can't figure this from the datasheet, could someone enlighten me as to which is the anode and the cathode in an IN-3? I'm assuming that the cathode is the silver electrode with the hole in the middle and the anode the smaller, grey, electrode - but don't want to commit this to an Eagle part and end up getting the entire board of 21 tubes wrong! (They will be mounted flat to the board, leads bent through 90 degrees. This is for a BCD clock.) Cheers M -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/1g-i4DVW3tQJ. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Polarity and current limiting resistor for INS-1 Nixie Lamps
Hello I have the same issue occasionally with IN-3 neon bulbs. Only some of the IN-3s flicker, the rest produce a constant glow. The circuit I use is direct drive, no pwm and there is no variation in voltage. I've played with both current and voltage but they still flicker after a few minutes, stop and flicker again. They still work after a couple of years as part of logic circuits so I think of the flickering now as a feature. My though was manufacturing variations are causing the effect. Sorry no other insight for you. Kind regards Michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/-MbTb-W7k4EJ. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Apollo DA-2500 numitron
Yep. I have a DA-2500. Given as a gift from a guy in Northern France when I bought some DA-2000s. They are a nice tube. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/Rrkuj6GEl48J. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: SP-425-09 datasheet request
No problem. Took a bit of searching, but I was looking for another spec sheet anyway and stumbled across what you needed. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/gS4pDpvYq3cJ. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: SP-425-09 datasheet request
http://radiokot.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=104547sid=e5158bd7b58010ebe3d45eece973f070 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/ZccybLUpEmcJ. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: SP-425-09 datasheet request
On Tuesday, 17 July 2012 19:37:42 UTC+10, William Lee wrote: Hi all- Does anyone have a datasheet for a Sperry SP-425-09 or know a link? My google-fu is failing me. Thanks, Dylan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/njJAYqY09w4J. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Question on mains
In general a dakatron will only draw 0.3 - 0.5ma in operation. Roughly 500V at 0.5ma say 0.25W. While I am not familiar with this particular kit, from the website it looks like most of the current is going to be used up in current limiting resistors, and the oscillator to spin the dekatron. Very roughly 500V at say 1ma (guess) say 0.5W, be on the safe side say 2W. The kit also does not look like it has a fuse so some isolation from mains is prudent. Given likely small power requirements two small transformers back to back should be enough to create an cheap isolation transformer for bench testing. Put a fuse into the line as well between the isolation transformer and spinner. I bought a couple of torroids from ebay with 15v secondaries that I use as an isolation transformer - cheep and work well for light loads - but if you have two small ones on hand they should work. However, if you will need to draw more power in future for other larger projects then getting a bigger isolation transformer may be the go for you. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/6dPipARnPCYJ. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
[neonixie-l] Re: Question on neon bulbs for circuit
Hello Specs for both are close A9A 0.7ma vs A1A 0.6. However, http://www.donsbulbs.com/cgi-bin/r/b.pl/neon|ne2~usa.html lists the following: DC breakdown volts:70avg DC maintain volts:59avg after 100 hours at design current design current/MA:0.3 end of life is 5v change in breakdown for maintaining voltage maximum diameter:0.275inchs neon glow lamp pre-aged:no voltage range:105-125v If this website data is true then there is only on average 11v differential between strike and maintain. This will make it difficult for you to build a reliable circuit as you will be aiming at the mid point which is only 5.5v. I've used IN-3's as they are cheep and have a good strike to maintain voltage differential (25-30V) - so you can design your circuits for the average point of 12-15v.As threeneurons points out this your major selection criteria for neon bulbs in logic circuits. Also remember that burning in bulbs with defined anode/cathode is different to burning in bulbs without a specific anode/cathode designation. The bulb types without a specific anode/cathode designation can become fixed after burn in. I have not seen this myself as I've only used IN-3s, which have a defined anode/cathode, but the literature talks about burn in memory for bulbs. This is important for bulbs like NE's as you must remember which way to place them in circuit after burn in. Whereas the IN-3's have a little arrow in the glass. I've found that an aged lot of 400 bulbs is enough to find enough batches of bulbs with the same characteristics to build a clock. Tighter batching will give better circuit performance, particularly for those circuits that are only triggered periodically such as minute and hours ring circuits in clocks. I've found no real issue with circuits from 100HZ down to 1/10hz, although I have not experimented with higher frequency circuits. If you are looking for reliability then you will find that over time, once reliable circuits for minutes and hours become unreliable and require bulb reorganisation or replacement - good to have lots of spares in your matched batches. Reliability goes down with the time a bulb is switched off even though I have supplementary lighting to assist ignition. So far I have not been able to find the compromise lighting level required to display the circuit under Perspex in my office without closing the blinds to keep all sunlight out. Intermittent errors occur as the strike point of some bulbs in the circuits is lowered by stray light. Hope this helps -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/iRhQIiMW4UoJ. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
[neonixie-l] Re: Question on XC18 trigger tubes
Pete I'd appreciate a copy of your schematics and board layout. I have a couple of hundred XC18s in the cupboard that I want to turn into a reliable clock and would be interested to see you layout. Kind regards Michael On Wednesday, 16 May 2012 19:04:56 UTC+10, petehand wrote: I built an XC18 clock based on Graham's design and can confirm, disappointingly, it won't work in the dark. I heard from an old friend of my father's, who used to work for Hivac, that these tubes were made with a small amount of radioactive material to assist with ionization, and presumably it's had enough half lives by now to be ineffective. If anyone is interested, I will email them a copy of my schematics, which are closely similar to Graham's. I also have one spare PCB - I did the whole thing (less the power supply) on a single board ten inches by seven. Pete Hand On May 9, 12:10 pm, Dylan Distasio interz...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the info and comments, Grahame. As an aside, I love your clock, and your other interesting projects! I'll take a look at the book. If you wouldn't mind emailing me the design, that would be great also. I will definitely take you up on your offer for continued correspondence as I move forward. Best, Dylan On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 2:16 PM, Grahame Marsh grahame.ma...@googlemail.comwrote: Dylan, The main design flaw with the published trigger tube clock is the change of supply voltage (I frigged the anode resistor to compensate). This does effect the pulse carry timing considerably.The main problem with the XC18 is it requires light to trigger reliably - leave the clock in a dark room and one or more rings will have failed by the morning. Tubes with a keep alive electrode like the Z700U will operate in complete darkness. My own XC18 clock is now just a demonstration clock that I fire up just to show it off as and when. I have a design for a second XC18 clock with schematics and layouts done in Eagle which I can email to you if you want to see them? This will give you a (all valve) design of a stabilised PSU and a 50 (or 60) Hz to 1 Hz divider using a two stage phantasmagorical divider which has a pulse shaper at the end to drive a XC18. For a more back-to-basics on trigger tube circuit design then download this book by Neale (86MB) chapter 5 in particular: http://www.sgitheach.org.uk/**dmneale.pdf http://www.sgitheach.org.uk/dmneale.pdf As it goes through the design process for trigger tubes (it uses the Z700U in the worked example). As a general comment to anyone on the list it is an ebook worth having IMHO. Building dividers on a breadboard is very easy and work well. The first divider I built was a two tube, divide by two, and then I added several more stages just to watch it count. I used a simple neon relaxtion oscillator to provide a slow enough tick that the dividers could be seen to be working rather than just using a 'scope. There are other XC18 clocks out there but all have the same darkness problem so must be kept lit. A few UV leds seem to work fine but the holy grail of an all valve clock has perhaps then been lost. The clock web page now lives on my own website as well http://www.sgitheach.org.uk/**nixie3.html http://www.sgitheach.org.uk/nixie3.html Happy to correspond, and I'm sure others will have comments as well. Cheers Grahame On 09/05/2012 18:32, Dylan Distasio wrote: Hi all- I recently picked up some XC18 trigger tubes in the hope of eventually building a trigger tube clock inspired by Grahame's work http://www.neonixie.com/**trigger-tube-clock/Trigger_**Clock.pdf http://www.neonixie.com/trigger-tube-clock/Trigger_Clock.pdf . I have reviewed some of the basic trigger tube circuits out there, but was hoping someone with experience using trigger tubes could provide some additional guidance. I am interested in building a simple ring counter circuit on a breadboard but wasn't sure what resistor / capacitor values to use, and an input for the trigger. I will probably eventually use the mains frequency in the clock, but am open to suggestions on another source for testing. Any help on the simplest possible ring counter circuit possible with these tubes and other tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Dylan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscribe@** googlegroups.com neonixie-l%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group
