[neonixie-l] Re: Dalibor's Nixie tube: R|Z568M
Nick: Hi, I use TM because I was lucky to get few for reasonable price from local bancrupted research company, together with all the accessories. Diff pump are much cheaper, they need practically no maintenance (when used right way), but they it takes much longer time to start it up and also the cool down. TM is more flexible in this way and saves a lot of time, especially during development. And TM pump also provides oil-free operation, which is good, but essential matter in nixie tube making. Terry S: I think if there is any tube vendor interested in nixie tube manufacture, they will know how to make it without me ;-) I think the problem is, that the amount of tubes which would saturate the market is quite low. Say 10.000 tubes for $100/pc = $1M, this would not cover the costs of specialised automated machines.. Sealing and pumping machines had capacities of hundreds tubes per hour.. That would mean few days of manufacture ;-) It will more likely stay in hands of people, from assembly to sealing and pumping.. Once local audio tube manufacturer sold tubes for around $2M per year (2008 or so), and they still make all the steps by hands, no automation. Nixiebunny: Hi David, thank for sharing this information! Regards, Dalibor Dne úterý 10. února 2015 17:46:20 UTC+1 Nick napsal(a): Hi Dalibor - just to add, I think that your price is fair - you need to live, and its a manually-intensive highly skilled job that you're doing... people need to realise that. Just for the record, why are you using a TM pump? surely a cheaper diffusion pump would be fine along with a suitable softer-vacuum backing pump? Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/b8677a1d-7347-45c7-a38a-2575552a771b%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[neonixie-l] Re: Dalibor's Nixie tube: R|Z568M
On Wednesday, 11 February 2015 11:28:07 UTC, Dalibor wrote: Nick: Hi, I use TM because I was lucky to get few for reasonable price from local bancrupted research company, together with all the accessories. Diff pump are much cheaper, they need practically no maintenance (when used right way), but they it takes much longer time to start it up and also the cool down. TM is more flexible in this way and saves a lot of time, especially during development. And TM pump also provides oil-free operation, which is good, but essential matter in nixie tube making. Hi Dalibor - thanks for the feedback. I have no doubt that a TM is a lot faster cleaner, but they do spin ever so fast and still need maintenance... Diff pumps with suitable low vapour-pressure oil, e.g. a polyphenyl ether, which is changed/maintained properly should be fine - no oil should get back to the glass if you get the sequencing right and the bombarding (or equivalent) should remove any potential organic matter - I can't see that more than a few molecules should ever get back to the tube... Modern multi-stage diffusion pumps with a cold-trap will reach 10x10-13 atm, which is far far below what we need - When nixies were commercially manufactured, did Burroughs/National etc. use TM or diffusion pumping? Cheers Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/20d654ef-5a7e-4769-b84c-285fa968442b%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Dalibor's Nixie tube: R|Z568M
Hi, TM maintanance is quite expensive (bearings), but it lasts quite long time. If You want to use polyphenyl ether (Santovac?) You will have to pay quite a lot of for it. The same with cold trap - liquid nitrogen on the site necessary (or cooling device).. But as I mentioned, the oil molecules are not a problem for nixie manufacture. I use bake out in oven followed by induction heating of the internal parts (no bombardment), so even if there is some oil, it will break down. 10E-10 mbar is a dream, but it needs a NASA-like lab ;-) I guess they used diff pumps, at least Tesla did. I found that the pressure in small audio tubes just before seal-off was 10E-2 mbar (quite poor vacuum), then the getter was flashed and got the tube to ~10E-7 torr. Big transmitting tubes were made on different machines, pumped long times to proper vacuum (10E-6 mbar) using cold traps.. Dalibor 2015-02-11 13:07 GMT+01:00 Nick n...@desmith.net: On Wednesday, 11 February 2015 11:28:07 UTC, Dalibor wrote: Nick: Hi, I use TM because I was lucky to get few for reasonable price from local bancrupted research company, together with all the accessories. Diff pump are much cheaper, they need practically no maintenance (when used right way), but they it takes much longer time to start it up and also the cool down. TM is more flexible in this way and saves a lot of time, especially during development. And TM pump also provides oil-free operation, which is good, but essential matter in nixie tube making. Hi Dalibor - thanks for the feedback. I have no doubt that a TM is a lot faster cleaner, but they do spin ever so fast and still need maintenance... Diff pumps with suitable low vapour-pressure oil, e.g. a polyphenyl ether, which is changed/maintained properly should be fine - no oil should get back to the glass if you get the sequencing right and the bombarding (or equivalent) should remove any potential organic matter - I can't see that more than a few molecules should ever get back to the tube... Modern multi-stage diffusion pumps with a cold-trap will reach 10x10-13 atm, which is far far below what we need - When nixies were commercially manufactured, did Burroughs/National etc. use TM or diffusion pumping? Cheers Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/neonixie-l/9a5d2ICHZA8/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/20d654ef-5a7e-4769-b84c-285fa968442b%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Dalibor Farny phone: +420 724 321 571 http://www.daliborfarny.com FB: https://www.facebook.com/daliborfarnycom -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CA%2BnkT5pbonu4iER0P_CJCAQ2xUrwfk%2BkfKpOwsBLMdw9sm914A%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[neonixie-l] Re: Dalibor's Nixie tube: R|Z568M
Hi Dalibor - just to add, I think that your price is fair - you need to live, and its a manually-intensive highly skilled job that you're doing... people need to realise that. Just for the record, why are you using a TM pump? surely a cheaper diffusion pump would be fine along with a suitable softer-vacuum backing pump? Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/2d219121-d0aa-494f-b770-43d836254613%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[neonixie-l] Re: Dalibor's Nixie tube: R|Z568M
Dalibor, of course that was a dream price :-) However, it does make one wonder -- if there is a tube vendor that you could license to produce the tube in higher quantities, more efficiently, probably even with a higher yeild and lower costs. The problem would of course be -- that after a few thousand tubes, perhaps a single production run, the market would be saturated for a long time. Terry On Monday, February 9, 2015 at 6:15:44 AM UTC-6, Dalibor wrote: Thank You Jens for promo, I am glad You like the tube! Terry S: As for the volume production, I do my best, but I am not able to produce more than 10-15 tubes per month. I develop various equipment (pumping systems, induction heaters, power supplies, testers, fixtures, jigs...) or procedures (pumping times, material behaviour in vacuum test, lifetime tests...) most of the time , the manufacture itself takes less than half of actual working time. As for the price, $50 is unfortunately unrealistic target. Lets take USA manufacturer National as an example, they sold a NL-7037 (50mm digit tube) for USD 19/each (if You took 100+ pcs) in 1969. When we take the inflation, the actual price in today's value of USD would be $122/each. They produced large amounts of tubes by then, using automated machines for all the manufacture steps except the inner system assembly - this decreased the price significantly, but despite this fact, it was still expensive. And now imagine that I make all the steps by hand, spending really lot of time on every tube. Also every piece of the vacuum related equipment is very expensive (e.g. new turbo pump I use $4k, roughing pump $2k, gauge $1.5k...), so covering this from income from the tubes is practically imposible. Referenced pricelist: http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/dat_arch/National_price.pdf Greg P: I already have some plans for bigger tube, but it will take some time to make it real ;-) Best regards, Dalibor Farny -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/0670adda-31e6-475f-82ff-1e67c4984746%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[neonixie-l] Re: Dalibor's Nixie tube: R|Z568M
It's extraordinary. Dalibor, when does volume production begin? We're all going to want these tubes. How many do you need to build in a batch to get the price down to say, $50 / tube? Terry On Saturday, February 7, 2015 at 1:01:33 PM UTC-6, Jens Boos wrote: Hi folks, find some pictures and details on Dalibor's R|Z568M on my website: http://www.jb-electronics.de/html/elektronik/nixies/n_rz568m.htm?lang=en It is an amazing tube, and it is of remarkable quality. Currently, Dalibor has listed an auction for six of them (with brushed aluminum base) on Ebay #271765099601, 4 days left and at $495. Let's see... Enjoy Jens -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/d8fcf28c-3049-4724-8120-a95b52f29318%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[neonixie-l] Re: Dalibor's Nixie tube: R|Z568M
Nice write up Jens. Let's hope Dalibor makes a resurrected CD-47 tube next. On Saturday, February 7, 2015 at 2:01:33 PM UTC-5, Jens Boos wrote: Hi folks, find some pictures and details on Dalibor's R|Z568M on my website: http://www.jb-electronics.de/html/elektronik/nixies/n_rz568m.htm?lang=en It is an amazing tube, and it is of remarkable quality. Currently, Dalibor has listed an auction for six of them (with brushed aluminum base) on Ebay #271765099601, 4 days left and at $495. Let's see... Enjoy Jens -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/0f6f2e1e-daee-4fc8-8117-e3ffcccdf54a%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
